Air Suspension Install Questions (LONG POST...SORRY!)

Hello, I have been doing some research on the forum and on different sites about air suspension because I hope to one day have a system on my car.  I do have a few questions as to the different parts and what is good to use and what is not and so on.

The purpose of an air system on my car is so that I won’t scratch my body kit if ever I get one, and also so that I can raise the car if there was a big hump or whatever.  I will doubt that I will need the side to side control (just front and back) because I dont think I will ever go side to side control. 

I will try to do my best with regards to keeping the questions as clear as possible and simple 

I would like to thank you for everyone in advance for letting me do this and I hope that it could be useful to others too.

Ps: I will be borrowing pictures from different places, so I hope they do not mind.

1)Valves:
For systems with a full FBSS system, they are using 8 valves (4 valves up and 4 valves down – two valves per bag/cylinder).  I have seen this one particular air valve block system that uses a total of 6 valves (from Arnott Industries).  

See picture:
[IMG]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/cleaverv/fileasp.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/cleaverv/fileasp-1.jpg[/IMG]

With that being shown, what are the advantage and disadvantages VS an 8 valve system?  Some people say that its more control, however I do not quite understand fully as to what they meant by that?

Also, how are the valves triggered? I know its by an electronic signal, but is it just like a switch inside that little box? Like is it a positive and negative and when it get shorted (via a switch??) it will either open or close?

2)Speed time of raise and drop:
I have seen people use from ½” to ¼” air lines.  What determines how fast a bag will fill up and deflate? The video what I am about to show is somewhat the speed that I am looking for.

Here is a sample video:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hycXowat6Eg&feature=related[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LrVFDfGNqQ&feature=related[/url]

That is somewhat how fast I would like my car to raise and drop. What line size is recommended?  Do you run the same air line sizes for both front and back?

Also, what makes the exhaust quieter than that, I don't like the PSSSSSHH sound when the bags/cylinders are deflating. 

3)Bags (more directed to Universal Air)
When using Universal Air bags is there any welding involved more so with the brackets and plates?  I have seen “psychedelicbeats” had welded the plate and the tube together; do you need to do that with all UAS bags?  Welding isn’t an issue though, just wondering I suppose.  Or is welding specific to the car’s application? I have seen some without the tubing, just the plate.  

Picture example:
[IMG]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/cleaverv/img0036mediumgf6.jpg[/IMG]

4)Digital Control/Switches
As much as I would like to get digital controller, I think its out of the budget for me at the moment.  Since I would only like a front/back system I will only need two switches at the very least. What I was thinking is to get a digital gauge and some switches that will be installed on to the center console or something.

Digital Gauge
[IMG]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/cleaverv/92024694_tp.jpg[/IMG]

I guess my question is: if I were to just use switches and that digital gauge, where do the switches hook up? Does it connect directly to the valves itself? Or does it connect to a controller and then the controllers connect to the valves?   I understand that the digital gauge will get the information of the PSI reading from the pressure senders which are tapped into each source (one in the tank, and one on each bag). But I was wondering where the switch connects to. 

Here is an example of the switches that I like (big steve’s interior shot)
[IMG]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/cleaverv/stevescreen.jpg[/IMG]

Well, that’s all I can think of for now.  The other parts I pretty much understand how it works and stuff, and I haven't thought about questions about them yet thats why, haha. I hope that it is ok for me to ask these, as they have been in my mind for a few weeks and would like to get answers, if possible.

Thank you again for everyone and for reading this!!  I appreciate the help in advance.

Regards.

in the you tube vids my guess would be that those are 1/4" lines... personally i would run 3/8".. gives you a faster response if you ever need to get it up fast. haha

you are entirely overthinking this

buy a kit

I wanna peice my own kit, thats all and also get a better understanding on how things work. 

maybe I posted on the wrong forum?

I apologize for that if I did..

a kit is the way to go, although i feel you on wantng to piece your own thing together (i ended up getting a kit, let the pros piece it together for you).
 
the switches are normally open momentary spdt, meaning theres is a hot that is normally open and when you hit the switch they complete the circuit to the valve. 2 valves/switch on a normal up/down wiring configuration.
 
you only need 4 valves for a f/b system so the valves you showed do not apply. i've never seen those.
 
those are 1/4 lines/reducers. i would say run 1/2" and use reducers to slow it down (headroom). silencers will get rid of the psssh sound.
 
cutting/welding will vary from application to application, but i would expect to have to do something.
 
it doesn't matter what gauge you get, the switches connect to the valve. even with a ride height system they hook to the valve, but through the controller.

[QUOTE=BLACKonBLACK98;147252]a kit is the way to go, although i feel you on wantng to piece your own thing together (i ended up getting a kit, let the pros piece it together for you).
 
the switches are normally open momentary spdt, meaning theres is a hot that is normally open and when you hit the switch they complete the circuit to the valve. 2 valves/switch on a normal up/down wiring configuration.
 
you only need 4 valves for a f/b system so the valves you showed do not apply. i've never seen those.
 
those are 1/4 lines/reducers. i would say run 1/2" and use reducers to slow it down (headroom). silencers will get rid of the psssh sound.
 
cutting/welding will vary from application to application, but i would expect to have to do something.
 
it doesn't matter what gauge you get, the switches connect to the valve. even with a ride height system they hook to the valve, but through the controller.[/QUOTE]

Ahh...thank you for the inputs!! Much apprecieated. 

One question though, is it possible to have a FRONT/BACK/ALL 4 system? No individual controls, just those three...so how many valves would I be using? Still 4? and then just different wiring to control the switches?

Thanks.

correct. i'm doing a 3 switch setup (f/b/pancake). most systems with a pancake switch are f/b/s/s with a switch box so i worked my brain a little and figued out how to do it with some wiring/diodes. we'll see how it works. there might be a better way but i don't know it and niether did anyone i asked (1 person lol).

kool..yeah, thats what I want too!

hmm...do you have a wring diagram?

i have a schematic if you can read it:
 
[IMG]http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/BLACKonBLACK98/AIR.jpg[/IMG]

Be careful when running a f/b system.  In order to run this style of system you will need to T the front and rear airlines, which can cause air transfer, which can hurt handling.

[QUOTE=Jeremy@Air Lift;149907]Be careful when running a f/b system.  In order to run this style of system you will need to T the front and rear airlines, which can cause air transfer, which can hurt handling.[/QUOTE]


Hmm...makes sense, because if one bag compresses, the air passes through the other bag since the valve is closed.
 

hmmmmmm....

I had custom done ...  It is easier to buy a kit nowadays Vs. spending money on each piece ... My compressors were 300+ each ... each tank , the valves .  ect .. long story short 8k total .. with install and redoing his work ... 

see my speed on you tube  search "Pxrlex" Should have 3 videos .. and able to drive all the way down ... for safety issues

bump this thread again haha..

i was curious what the pros and cons of running one compressor vs 2?  

I noticed that the airrunners uses 1 while UAS kits uses 2?  

I can only see the main difference is the turn around time for someone to control the heights because of the time it will take to fill the tank vs if it was 2 then it would fill quicker?!

I'm running one compressor and it only takes maybe 5 min. to fill up on a empty tank!
And I barely notice when it's on! :biggthumpup:
 
Running 2 compressors only means faster fill up time.....

yeah, thats what I thought...

how about running a smaller tank? like a 3 gallon VS a 5?

more air vs less air.   lighter cars doesnt need as much air so 3 gal may work. heavy 4 door cars prefer to use 5 gal which allows your to go up and down a couple times.

I could run a 3 on mine and probably will when I do my trunk
 
It's jsu means less air but a good compressor will fill it up quick w/ no problems.

[quote=PANCAKES!;156388]Running 2 compressors only means faster fill up time.....[/quote]

And a backup in case one burns out :thumbsup:

[QUOTE=ShaneC;156473]more air vs less air.   lighter cars doesnt need as much air so 3 gal may work. heavy 4 door cars prefer to use 5 gal which allows your to go up and down a couple times.[/QUOTE]

Is a 1993 GS300 considered a heavy 4door?! hehehe...

Reason I ask about these questions is that if you have seen the trunk of a GS300 (1st gen) its pretty small because of the gas tank behind the seat no underneath. So im limited as to what size tank and the number of compressors I can use, due to the fact that I want to maximize my trunk space too.

Maybe if I get a more powerful compressor with a 3 gallon tank? hmmm....doable combo?! hehe

i'm running dual 380s and dual 3 gallons. its not to hard to come up with space. you dont want to be playin and run out of air...

[quote=OCKlasse;156501]And a backup in case one burns out :thumbsup:[/quote]
 
Exactly.  I had one burn out but luckily I have another one.

[QUOTE=BLACKonBLACK98;156525]i'm running dual 380s and dual 3 gallons. its not to hard to come up with space. you dont want to be playin and run out of air...[/QUOTE]


Do you have a picture of your trunk?

I want to see how you mount it..thank you.

i need more then just one up and have to wait for the compressor to fill it up. that will be the longest 5 mins of my life.. haha.

hmm...so two is better than one.

Then I wonder why airrunner have only one. Is it a better compressor?

[quote=hondaboi;147210]Hello, I have been doing some research on the forum and on different sites about air suspension because I hope to one day have a system on my car. I do have a few questions as to the different parts and what is good to use and what is not and so on.
 
The purpose of an air system on my car is so that I won’t scratch my body kit if ever I get one, and also so that I can raise the car if there was a big hump or whatever. I will doubt that I will need the side to side control (just front and back) because I dont think I will ever go side to side control. 
 
I will try to do my best with regards to keeping the questions as clear as possible and simple 
 
I would like to thank you for everyone in advance for letting me do this and I hope that it could be useful to others too.
 
Ps: I will be borrowing pictures from different places, so I hope they do not mind.
 
1)Valves:
For systems with a full FBSS system, they are using 8 valves (4 valves up and 4 valves down – two valves per bag/cylinder). I have seen this one particular air valve block system that uses a total of 6 valves (from Arnott Industries). 
 
[B][COLOR=red]From what the diagram show wit this 6 valve set up.. they use one valve to go down and one vavle to go up.. the other four are wired to select what you want to go up and down.. saves you 2 vavles.. its how you wire it up... you can prob do that with reg valves..[/COLOR][/B] 
 
[B][COLOR=red]its really how you wire it..[/COLOR][/B] 
 

 
Thank you again for everyone and for reading this!! I appreciate the help in advance.
 
Regards.[/quote]
 
better to get a kit..

[quote=hondaboi;157321]hmm...so two is better than one.
 
Then I wonder why airrunner have only one. Is it a better compressor?[/quote]
 
Because you don't need two!
I only have one and that's all you need! Unless you play with your bags alot then yea you should probably get 2 because it will probably burn out from using it over and over!
 
But if your not dumpin it all the time then you jus need 1!
 
I've never had a problem w/ running my one
 
but whatevers. I'll only preach once :pat:

okay i just got done making my own kit for my Q45.  It is not that hard but I am not a welder either so I had local car shop tig and mig everything up for me.  Just getting measurements and cutting everything is what takes time.  I bought a 4 gallon pancake tank and digital air controller which is all plug and ply other than running a ground, accessory and power wire.  I boguth a very loud compressor which fills 4 gallon tank in like 2 mins.  and its all hidden in my spare tire well. After all said and done  I have $2100 in the whole kit.  Rides great too!!! just takes time and little ingenuity sometimes.

I have one compressor also... and 5 gal tank.. 
 
2 compressors make to much noise.. They prob run to becuase there always hitting the switchs. 
 
mines takes only a few min to fill becuase the pressure switch tells the compressor to come on way before it hit zero presure.. 175psi the compressor comes on.. but again i only like many here just use the bags to use once in a while...even when i park i leave the car up..

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;157335]Because you don't need two!
I only have one and that's all you need! Unless you play with your bags alot then yea you should probably get 2 because it will probably burn out from using it over and over!
 
But if your not dumpin it all the time then you jus need 1!
 
I've never had a problem w/ running my one
 
but whatevers. I'll only preach once :pat:[/QUOTE]

hey pancakes,

Thanks for the input. I wasnt trying to be a stubborn person or anything.  I just heard that people get two because they said for "backup" and etc..so thats why I asked.  Thats all.

thanks again!

No problem!
 
People will say get two fo rback up but if you don't play w/ it all the time then you'll have no problems!
 
+ You can upgrade to a stronger compressor for faster fill up time and less use!
 
Also when you have air suspension long enough y'all never really use it!
I only dump mine at shows! Which is once a month or so. During the week I also use a small amount to set my ride height or if I get stuck on a speed bump/driveway! HHAhaha

for a little extra cash its definitely worth it. runing out of air isn't really an issue but quicker fill times and less strain on your compressors are.

so you guys with air dont drop it much? does that mean you drive it very low the rest of the time or do you end up driving at a fairly conservative height most of the time and only going real low/pancake when at a special event e.g. show?

thats just him... if you ask me switches are for hittin.

[QUOTE=BLACKonBLACK98;158258]for a little extra cash its definitely worth it. runing out of air isn't really an issue but quicker fill times and less strain on your compressors are.[/QUOTE]


how about two compressors and a smaller tank? hahaa...like a 3 gallon tank?!

that way, its a quicker fill...and less strain on the compressor. 

Or Ill get a dual package, but only use one of them and just leave the other at home incase something burns out! hehe..

that would be like having a car with a smaller gas tank...yeah, its cheaper to 'fill up'....but u have to fill up more often.  If you're 'on your switches' (which u will b just starting out) you're going to get annoyd running out of air and having your compressors running alll the time filling up that lil tank. 
 
Installing[I] 'Air ride'[/I] is fairly easy task but not sumthing you wanna keep re-installing. Do yourself a favor and buy [B]the best[/B] compressors [B]you[/B] can afford and a [B]decent sized[/B] tank.

[quote=ant_s13sil;158266]so you guys with air dont drop it much? does that mean you drive it very low the rest of the time or do you end up driving at a fairly conservative height most of the time and only going real low/pancake when at a special event e.g. show?[/quote]
 
I don't drop mine much, I only slam it when at shows since that's the only time I can, since you can't drive at 0 psi! Hahahahahaha!
 
Here's my daily ride height
(Sorry itz not stoopid low) :shrug:
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a247/ThisBeJoee/100_7931Medium.jpg[/IMG]
 
 
[quote=BLACKonBLACK98;158278]thats just him... if you ask me switches are for hittin.[/quote]
 
Hitting switches is fun! But this is air not hydros!
Not meant for hopping!

Heres my opinion on this get at least a 5gall tank, and 2 compressor, reason is if you run a small tank it will fill up faster but at the same time use most of the air in the tank. A 5gall tank is average even if you hit the switches alot it will still have enough air to lift the car and drive after. 
Get 2 compressor is because even if you don't hit the switches and only play with them once in a while, that compressor will give out eventually, if you have 2 compressor at least you have a back up if one gives out. I had that happened to my lil bro and I but we had 2 compressors so it did matter.

With my 5 gallon tank and one compressor, my compressor only comes on about 2-3 a week! and for less than 5 minutes!
 
Only because I upgraded my compressor do I have an extra one which always stays at home!
 
So yea if you wanna be safe you can buy another compressor for spare but either way it don't matter

One word Duty Cycle.  Check the duty cycle on your compressors.  Some are only 20% and some say 100% but are not.  They stop making real air after they reach their duty cycle which causes them to burn out.

If your bagging a gs then you will want a 5 gall.  Remember your not only filling the bag but the 5 or 6 foot of air line from the valve to the bag, unless you put your valves close to your bags.  In a first gen you might be tight for room under the hood.  if you wanna roll baller get two nos tanks and put them on either side in the trunk and your comps in the spare tire well, depending on which one you buy you might be able to fit them next to the bottles.  If you really want to make it clean have to tubes capped and fabbed behind your rear bubmper where the impact beam is.  2 the length of a bumper will almost make 5 gallons if your using decent size pipe.

[QUOTE=DXJP;159050]One word Duty Cycle.  Check the duty cycle on your compressors.  Some are only 20% and some say 100% but are not.  They stop making real air after they reach their duty cycle which causes them to burn out.

If your bagging a gs then you will want a 5 gall.  Remember your not only filling the bag but the 5 or 6 foot of air line from the valve to the bag, unless you put your valves close to your bags.  In a first gen you might be tight for room under the hood.  if you wanna roll baller get two nos tanks and put them on either side in the trunk and your comps in the spare tire well, depending on which one you buy you might be able to fit them next to the bottles.  If you really want to make it clean have to tubes capped and fabbed behind your rear bubmper where the impact beam is.  2 the length of a bumper will almost make 5 gallons if your using decent size pipe.[/QUOTE]

Interesting.

I plan on dumping a lot so I just hope the warranty on my compressors will cover normal usage.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks again!!

I will probably get a 5 gallon tank and two compressor.  OR two 3 gallon tanks and 2 compressor.

I guess, im just looking at the smallest 3 gallon tanks available or get a pancake style and a small tank? so its hidden? hehe.

Bah, gotta decide....gotta decide, think think think! hmmm...