Air suspension - Faster bag fill/deflate times?

Is there anything I can do/replace in my Airrunner setup to decrease the time required to full deflate/inflate the bags?

My understanding is the air line diameter controls fill speed. In actuality it seems that the final fitting size on the bag is what will ultimately determine the speed, working as a choke to limit the volume of air entering/exiting the bags. 

The ACC setup on my UCF20 uses 1/8" NPT fittings and 1/4" lines. I have two tanks, a single ~120psi compressor and manual switches. I haven't thoroughly examined my current setup;  I think there is either a single or dual 1/4" line from the tanks to the switch manifold, then individual 1/4" lines out to each bag.

Ultimately I'm planning to upgrade to a digital controller, electric valves, and dual compressors. At the same time I'd like to make some changes to decrease the fill/deflate time. The only true solution I can think of would be to modify the cylinders themselves, drill and retap to use a larger NPT fitting, run larger lines everywhere. Not the answer I'm looking for though. 

Any input would be appreciated, thanks.

I ran the airrunner setup in my gs430 for about 4 years and I always thought the way they set up the up/down rate was perfect. but as far as speeding up the rate of inflate that would have to do with the lines themselves but acc/airrunner made it so you cant change it out unless you do what you stated which is drill larger holes for new fittings, but you might as well buy a new american system for the amount of time and work involved.


btw....you would also have to get new paddles.....the paddles only let a certain amount of air out when you deflate. any higher pressure and i would think the paddles themselves would start to deteriorate on you.

Thanks for the reply Panda. Was the setup on your GS similar, 1/4" lines?

Regarding the paddles, I'm planning to go to a digital controller any with electric valves. The paddles in the car now are in the center console, it's inconvenient to get to them to adjust, plus they're loud in the cabin when you deflate.

nitrogen

Hello,

You can get airline valves to control the amount of air flow.

Usually, 1/4" lines are pretty slow already, and if you want to go even slower, you can put that airline valve OR go even smaller airline like 1/8"? 

You dont need to redrill the ports on the cylinders, you can just get reducer fittings.
[url]http://www.suicidedoors.com/catalog/air-management/valve-fill-controls[/url]
or
[url]http://www.suicidedoors.com/catalog/air-management/valve-dump-controls[/url]

Good luck!

Here is an example of what airline valve im talking about.

Kohinoor, I've seen quite a few n2 setups on trucks. Seems like it works great for hopping but that's not what I'm looking for... Rather keep a compressor driven setup that I don't have to pay money to refill.

Hey Hondaboi, I know about the adjustable exhaust valves, is that what you're talking about? My question isn't about slowing down the system... I'm asking about speeding it up a little. The Airrunner struts have a 1/8 NPTF port, which I think will severly limit the speed regardless of the line size up to that point. 

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like drilling/retapping the strut fittings and replacing all the lines is the only way to speed the system up? I'm not really looking to modify my cylinders just yet, just wondering if there's another option I'm not thinking of...

This was the reasoning behind why i went custom on my bags ... 

Do what panda says ... he has changed up his set up too

[QUOTE=mello-s13;191694]

Hey Hondaboi, I know about the adjustable exhaust valves, is that what you're talking about? My question isn't about slowing down the system... I'm asking about speeding it up a little. The Airrunner struts have a 1/8 NPTF port, which I think will severly limit the speed regardless of the line size up to that point. 

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like drilling/retapping the strut fittings and replacing all the lines is the only way to speed the system up? I'm not really looking to modify my cylinders just yet, just wondering if there's another option I'm not thinking of...[/QUOTE]

Oh, oops...sorry about that. I am tired and didnt read the question properly.

In that case, go the other way around...get bigger lines!! like 3/8" is a good size, not to fast and not too slow.

Or you can get 1/2" lines and then use that adjustable inline valves..to fine tune it!

I know if you dont redrill the lines and retapping them, you will create a bottle neck which slows it down, but I hope that if you run either 3/8" or 1/2" that with the bottle neck effect, you will like the speed??

Good luck..I hope I made sense this time :)

[quote=mello-s13;191694]. I'm asking about speeding it up a little. The Airrunner struts have a 1/8 NPTF port, which I think will severly limit the speed regardless of the line size up to that point. 

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like drilling/retapping the strut fittings and replacing all the lines is the only way to speed the system up? I'm not really looking to modify my cylinders just yet, just wondering if there's another option I'm not thinking of...[/quote]

You are definitely right, the amount of air going into the struts still does not change because of the diameter of the hole in which the fitting goes into. I was using 3/8 lines. I suppose you can get bigger lines and use fitting changers but like i stated before u are now entering the realm of pushing too much air into those bags which are "sleeve type" .... I believe ucf uses the sleeve and not bellows....im unsure... but in any event i ditched the runners because of their reaction to certain driving styles. u lose performance unless ur always going striaght.

-A

Thanks for all the replies guys

Hondaboi, I saw a fellow VSC member's IS350 the other night with 1/2 lines on a UAS setup. It was unbelievably fast. Actually faster than what I'd like... For raising it's fine but dumping I think the adj exhaust restrictors would be required so you don't smash the mufflers depending on terrain, etc... With an 8 valve setup that wouldn't be a problem at all, with reducers and adj valves the bigger lines could easily be slowed down/tuned to liking.

Panda, that's what I thought thanks for confirming. Were you using 3/8 lines going to the 1/8 npt fittings, or did your ACC struts have a different sized port? Also when you say entering the realm of pushing too much air -- what does this mean. More specifically, what are the limits of the sleeve type bags? I'm guessing there is a good technical reason ACC used 1/8 NPT and 1/4 lines on the UCF20 kit instead of 3/8 or larger.. Also I'm guessing that they used the sleeve style setup due to clearance against the upper control arm/ball join assm, but never really seen another UCF20 setup to compare with.

Panda what setup did you put together, and do you have a thread with more info on your car? PS welcome to the site!

[quote=mello-s13;191766]Thanks for all the replies guys

Hondaboi, I saw a fellow VSC member's IS350 the other night with 1/2 lines on a UAS setup. It was unbelievably fast. Actually faster than what I'd like... For raising it's fine but dumping I think the adj exhaust restrictors would be required so you don't smash the mufflers depending on terrain, etc... With an 8 valve setup that wouldn't be a problem at all, with reducers and adj valves the bigger lines could easily be slowed down/tuned to liking.

Panda, that's what I thought thanks for confirming. Were you using 3/8 lines going to the 1/8 npt fittings, or did your ACC struts have a different sized port? Also when you say entering the realm of pushing too much air -- what does this mean. More specifically, what are the limits of the sleeve type bags? I'm guessing there is a good technical reason ACC used 1/8 NPT and 1/4 lines on the UCF20 kit instead of 3/8 or larger.. Also I'm guessing that they used the sleeve style setup due to clearance against the upper control arm/ball join assm, but never really seen another UCF20 setup to compare with.

Panda what setup did you put together, and do you have a thread with more info on your car? PS welcome to the site![/quote]


You know what I lied...i retract what i said about 3/8 lines...i hadn't looked at that system in a while now since i sold it, but i was using 1/8 lines with all fittings being 1/8 also. Sorry about the confusion. 

As far as the setup I have now I use UAS airbags on L-tuned struts combo'd with Easy-Street digital autopilot controller. It came with 1/2 inch lines. All the parts to build the setup was less than 3 grand. 2500 from what I remember. 

The ride is 1000 times better not just because of using a combo of bag and an independent strut, but because you get so much out of the system because of auto-inflate-deflate, leak protection, tank and bag pressure.... Best bang for your buck when you go with american systems...not only that but you can buy replacement parts everywhere. With the runners from what shin at ACC told me you need to "re-condition" the runners after a certain amount of years. ....I dont hate on airrunners, they do exactly what they are built to do. Maybe I just expected too much out of it for the price they are going for.

Back to my setup...I dont have any links to me installing them in my car, I hesitate to do DIY write-ups nowadays because I find people are not willing to get down and dirty with their car and figure even the simplest things out for themselves, instead they want their hand held every step of the way. The only reason I know what I know these days is from great friends who ive met from forums (people who only have to lead me in the right direction...as ill figure the rest out myself) and personal experience. (more questions just PM me)

about the comment about getting into the realm of feeding too much air too fast into the runners.... what i meant is basically the strut/sleeve type bag really doesnt look like its very thick....it feels like a balloon. even the instructions when i first put it in said "beware and do not inflate past 120psi" or something of that nature. It even states when you jack up the car make sure you deflate the bag a little so there isnt too much pressure on it.......  my setup now .... air up the car as much as you like....jack up the car...no probs....


sorry for the long reply.....hope it all helps u out though.

-A

Sorry to thread jack:shrug:
 
 
I was wondering if the length of the lines make a difference in how fast it goes up/down. Lets say, the front lines are shorter than the rear(pending on location of the switches). Will the front fill up faster?

Hello IS3. I don't think you'd be able to notice any real difference in speed due to the pressure that the line is operated at. Seems like 100psi would travel in a 1/4" line 10 feet almost as instantly as it goes 3 feet..

Hello,

Well, to be honset I think it would make a difference in line size and length...but im no expert.

Just picture a 1/2" line at 3ft, versus 1/4" at 3ft...more air travels at the 1/2"...less resistance!

^ Yes, different diameter lines will definitely flow different rates. But what IS3 is asking has to do with same diam, diff length lines.. I suppose mathematically the length will make some lag and a small delay -- but at the short distances are hoses are, I bet you'll never even notice it. 

To re-kindle my original topic on decreasing fill time:

My current setup is: tank->1/4 line->4 way tee->switches->1/4 lines->bags.

I just realized something, basically I have a 1/4 line out of the tank, and am splitting it four ways. Taking the max cfm the small 1/4 line can deliver, and dividing it by 4... Well at least dividing it by 2 when filling just the front or just the rear. So correct me if I'm wrong, if I upgrade to a 1/2 tank line it should make 2-bag inflations 2x as fast and 4-bag inflations 4x as fast. The math on circles, diameters and internal area makes me think so, but then again it's late...

[QUOTE=Pandags430;191779] even the instructions when i first put it in said "beware and do not inflate past 120psi" or something of that nature. It even states when you jack up the car make sure you deflate the bag a little so there isnt too much pressure on it.......  my setup now .... air up the car as much as you like....jack up the car...no probs....
-A[/QUOTE]

Panda thanks for the reply! I didn't get the original instructions/manual/etc with my car and wasn't even aware of the 120psi warning or the jacking issue... Are there any other precautions I need to know about?  I emailed Airrunner USA a while ago and never heard back from them...

I have the instructions and it says, not to inflate past 120psi and not below 10psi. But when lifting your wheels off the ground, you would deflate the bags to 10-20psi. That will prevent the bags ripping. Do not drive the car at full height, may cause serious damage. Well everything that says, "not to do". states that it may cause serious damage. There is something else, I just cant think of it. I need to re-read the instructions again.
 
Do you have FAX? I dont have PDF, or else I would so send this to you, through email. Maybe I can find someone that has PDF skills:p
 
 
Edit:  It was the distance with the same diameter hose.  Thanks MELLO

Thanks, I would love the PDF, I don't have fax. I know there are free fax service web sites though that you can fax that will make a PDF. If I find one I'll put the #. I just want to know the important stuff so I don't cause any damage. Maybe ACC shin can email me the manual. Thanks!

Edit: I signed up for one of those fax to email services. Pls fax the manual to 206-666-3932 and lmk when you send it since I have no way to test this. thx

I will do it tomorrow:D

1/2" Fills/deflates hella fast.

If you want crazy speed get 5/8" fitting ho ho ho!

Yeah 1/2 is really fast. I saw it on a local VSC member's IS the other week, it was the UAS kit. Ridiculously fast. That's not what I'm looking for. I'll see how my setup does with electric valves plumbed with 1/2 from the tank and keep the 1/4 out to the bags. If it's only marginally faster I'll probably off these and go with a custom setup and 3/8 line.

IS3 lmk when you send that manual, I didn't get it yet. Thx!

Have you done anything to your tubes yet?
 
Edit: That doesnt sound right

Bahaha

No, absolutely nothing. Probably won't be for a month or two. I'll update this post when I get around to upgrading. I think going to 1/2 from the tank to the manifold/switches/valves will make a big difference, hopefully enough to just keep the airrunners and 1/4 lines.

One thing, I wish the front would go a little lower. I've been thinking about that SS kit I saw FS in the other thread. My 19s in front don't tuck at all, rear is tucked 3+ inchs