Non VIP air suspension build thread...Mark 5 GTI content

So after much deliberation on going with bags, hydros, or sticking with coils, I decided to go with bags.

Setup is going to be simple, a 3 gal tank, UAS rear bags, Mason Tech fronts with sway mounts, Dacota gauge.

So far this is the only progress I was able to make since car broke down and has been at the dealer since last Friday.

[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/Air%20Ride%20build/IMG_3804.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/Air%20Ride%20build/IMG_3809.jpg[/img]
You can see some glue residue on gauge mount, and polyurethane I used for the base...this will be out of sight once mounted.
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/Air%20Ride%20build/SL740877.jpg[/img]

Gauge and switch box are already mounted in the car, also today I received these bad boys...custom painted red:
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/photo.jpg[/img]

For those who don't know what car it's going on:
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/Car%20photography/IMG_3564sml.jpg[/img]

Nice start! Keep us updated! And good choice with the air

dam , you might not have any room  when you are done A + to you ..for making that sac ...

I see how it is...

Just kidding. Can't wait to see it complete!

MORE AIR IN THE PNW! GOOD STUFF MAN

Thanks guys. I just wish the car was here so I can work on it. 

The trunk floor will have to be raised by a bit, but I will still have my spare tire in there as well as all the tools. Planning on building a small box to hold jack, and other tools in there.

nice set of bags

those mason techs are good shit santi is really tryin to push those

i thought that was you on vortex with the all black wires on your valves. :giggity:

Haha yeah, all black wires makes things a bit more confusing. But I have them figured out, and it'll look cleaner with wires being same color.

Santi is on Mason Techs now too. The quality is top notch! Their service is great too. I'm just happy that I can still keep my sway bar. May have to get new sway bar links that are shorter, but I'm determined to lay subframe with this. 

What do you guys think, should I keep my trunk same with grey carpet, or get grey suede? Portion of my tank will be visible...but for shows, top cover will be removed.

You're going to have to get the strut tower cut and raised if you want to lay subframe on those air things haha

[QUOTE=trefive;271800]You're going to have to get the strut tower cut and raised if you want to lay subframe on those air things haha[/QUOTE]

It depends on the wheel and tire size. There are few people with MK5s that are laying subframe, with sway bar still in place...granted they are using different suspension. 
Here's another person here in WA with Mason Tech fronts...I don't think this guy is running a sway bar up front though. My front lip will be much closer to the ground than his front is.
[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3169/3878996341_775fa81b90_b.jpg[/img]

[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/3177734611_fbbfcb68c2_b.jpg[/IMG]

Above is a rough rendering of what I want the setup to look. I am tempted to use 3/8" copper tubing for air feed lines (green), they would be hidden under false floor. Also I would use copper for exhaust valves (blue). Lines that go to bags (yellow) would also be hidden under false floor and exit the car either on the drivers side of the spare tire tub or in the front next to exhaust ports.

I could however use copper on lines that go to the bags as well...at least on portion thats inside the car. I think that will make overall setup look cleaner, and I could easily make 90 degree bends with it. 

So what are your thoughts on using copper for this? Most likely I'd do M grade...L if it's still easy to bend. 

Thanks.

Well I finally got the car back! Week and half later, the car has new cams, new head, and new valves...thanks warranty :biggrin:

Got the trunk floor going...so far I am trying to figure out the best way to mount everything. Also debating getting rid of two valves, so I have front/rear adjustment instead of all individual corners.
[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/Air%20Ride%20build/SL740879.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Dark Anghell;273626]Also debating getting rid of two valves, so I have front/rear adjustment instead of all individual corners.
[/QUOTE]

Dont do this. Ever think of a wierd scenario where one bag may have more air than the other? u wont have the power to adjust as needed , rather deflate all then inflate.

That also makes sense. My buddy mentioned one other thing...with just 2 valves, ride quality will be like shit. Air will flow freely from left side to right side when going through corners. So essentially I could go from 10K spring rate down to 5K on one side and 15K on the other side....but if I have one valve per corner, then this won't happen. Right now I am not 100% happy with how the floor looks. Debating on going with thicker MFD...right now it's 1/2". I could do 1" or I could glue another layer of 1/2" to the bottom with passages for air lines and wires...I'd also have rubber absorbers so the whole thing doesn't move or cause excessive vibration. The way the floor is right now, I have about 3/4" gap all the way around between the side of the floor and the wheel tubs, etc. Ideally I'd want there to be no gap at all or very little.

yay! :)

Small update...tomorrow going to order all my fittings. Today I ordered a nifty thing that should look clean even though it'll be hidden:
[img]http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/437505_lg.gif[/img]
This will be located under the floor board, one air line will go into it from the tank, 4 will go to manifolds, and 1 might be used for tank pressure...as long as I have enough space for that. I think this will eliminate the need for at least 4 or 5 different fittings...and 4 or 5 chances for an air leak.

where do you buy that manifold?

A buddy of mine got it for me...not sure where from.

Did some...well actually a lot of work on the trunk, I think I have about 20 or so hours into it so far. Here's what it will look like, I may add some pipes to hold up the upper floor board when I put heavy things on it...or I may keep it as is. Also, the vinyl is not burgundy, it's called American Beauty, just a few shades darker than Tornado Red.

Next step is to get some power wires, I'm still waiting on few more fittings, my 1 into 5 splitter that I will use to run lines from the tank to my manifolds. Once that's all hooked up and working, I can start on the bags. 

Question: what do you guys do with rear bags after cutting that metal nipple/bump thing off? I recall seeing someone bolting up a bracket on top and on the bottom so the bag doesn't pop out. I can't find those brackets anywhere though.

Now the pictures:
[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/Air%20Ride%20build/IMG_3810.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/Air%20Ride%20build/IMG_3811.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/Air%20Ride%20build/IMG_3812.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/Air%20Ride%20build/IMG_3813.jpg[/IMG]

thats gonna look sick once its in your trunk.

Thanks. Decided to change plans just a little bit. Going to use 1/4 line for the rear...as 3/8 might be a bit too fast.

I think today I will paint the brackets for rear bags so they are nice and pretty. Hopefully that manifold will arrive tomorrow and at some point this upcoming week I can route all the lines to the manifolds. Still debating if I want to run the power wire underneath the car, or through the interior. Really don't want to make my firewall entrance look like shit.

That looks like a really small compressor (which model is it?) and tank. The comp. is gonna be running a lot depending on use.

It's a 450cc and a 3 gal tank. I should be fine, that's the same setup previous owner had...if this is not enough, the floor has space on the right side for a second compressor and more than enough room for a 4 or 5 gal tank.

Dark Anghell

I have a Celsior on aftermarket airbags, It has a 5 gal tank with 2 Viair 450C compressors, 1/2" lines, the compressor will be more then enough for your setup if you are not planning on flipping switches all day which I dont think you are by reading your posts. Personally, I think you will be fine with that compressor. Just be sure it is getting the right amount of power to it.

3 gal is alittle small for a mk5.  the minimum ive done is 5 gal, most was 10.  those air house 2's take a lot of air volume.  
 
and that little air manifold was my little secret weapon for the longest time :) .  you can run a really clean setup with 2 port tanks with that.  
 
they can be purchased with almost any number of ports, size, orientation, etc.  from any industrial air supply place.  
 
[URL]http://www.alumitecmanifolds.com/?gclid=CN6g177mpZ0CFQ4MDQodZRQQ3A[/URL]
 
cheaper than the extra fittings and line you'd need to hookup your system witout one.
 
i used to run 2 comps into the manifold, 2 lines out to the traps to the tanks, and in the spare mani ports put the pressure switch, schraeder, relief, and sensor

I'm definitely not planning on raising and lowering the car all day long. It's my understanding that I should be able to get a couple inflations on a full tank. Which is more than enough for me. 

I may also run a shrader valve into that alluminum manifold since I have a 5th port in it that's not being used. For now I am waiting to see what it all looks like. Also want to run as few fittings as possible....otherwise I have more chances for a leak. 

Kind of worried right now, called Easystreet to change one order, and they don't have it in their system. Their website was messing up on me both times I placed those orders...hopefully it wasn't hacked. But I got nickel plated plugs for the tank instead of Home Depot brass ones...should look much better on the tank. I also got a drain plug to put on the bottom of the tank.

if you're worried about keeping fittings to a minimum and avoiding leaks, you may want to get rid of those avs valves, theyre garbage.  i've never used/sold a set that didnt have problems.  the seals on those leak like a sieve.  
 
that manifold is also a problem point, make sure you use at least the pink teflon tape or a ton of the white, the machining tolerances on those are more akin to systems running much lower pressures, not the 145-175psi that these cars run
 
and the tank capacity may still be an issue.  i run MUCH smaller sleeves and smaller rear bellows and can barely lift to height on a single 3 gal.  granted, my car is in wounded leg mode and i only use it to move the car around.  depending on the pressures you need for the mason-techs (which should be 70 front 30 rear?), you may be fine, but those uvair bags are air hogs.  
 
 
you should be able to get through to jesse or corey at ES and they can track it down, or at least put you through to whatever her name is in payments.

[QUOTE=nunzo.;274946]if you're worried about keeping fittings to a minimum and avoiding leaks, you may want to get rid of those avs valves, theyre garbage.  i've never used/sold a set that didnt have problems.  the seals on those leak like a sieve.  
 
that manifold is also a problem point, make sure you use at least the pink teflon tape or a ton of the white, the machining tolerances on those are more akin to systems running much lower pressures, not the 145-175psi that these cars run
 
and the tank capacity may still be an issue.  i run MUCH smaller sleeves and smaller rear bellows and can barely lift to height on a single 3 gal.  granted, my car is in wounded leg mode and i only use it to move the car around.  depending on the pressures you need for the mason-techs (which should be 70 front 30 rear?), you may be fine, but those uvair bags are air hogs.  
 
 
you should be able to get through to jesse or corey at ES and they can track it down, or at least put you through to whatever her name is in payments.[/QUOTE]

Hmm...I've got a buddy with same valves and they were problem free for about 2 years now. Hope these will work well. At some point I will definitely upgrade to a different manifold. 1-to-5 manifold will get a ton of teflon tape. Especially since it will be below the floor. There are lots of people running 3 gal tanks with MK5s and they are sufficient. I couldn't find a 4 gal aluminum tank, and a 5 gal would take for ever to  fill with single Vlair 450 compressor. 

I will most likely upgrade everything after next show season...including valves, compressor, tank, etc.

i'm not trying to be a pain, just offering advice.  i've been on air for the past 4 years with almost 45k on it, and until recently owned a company who designed the system for the first mk5 on air in the states.  we did several mk5s, as well as mk4s, audis, passats, aircooled, etc.
 
i really dont see any mk5s running single 3 gals, i follow mk5 air installs rather closely and cant remember seeing any.  but i could be wrong (its happened before hardeeharhar)
 
who's kit did this used to be?

This used to be Chachos kit put together and installed by Santi. He had a 3gal tank in there, but did suggest going with a 5gal...I kept overall setup the same because of space. 5 gal would have to agaist the back seat, which I don't want at this moment.

I do appreciate your advice. This is my first air build, so a lot of learning and trial and error. According to Santi's build thread for this system, he used Easystreet Manifolds...could be their older design? Because I didn't see them on their website.

So since I'll probably be on a restricted budget for wheels, what do you guys think of these?

17" Porsche Turbo Twists...so far I've seen few sets that were 8" wide front, and 10" rear. More than likely I'd paint them gloss black or polish them.

This is what a car looks like with those wheels, mine would be much lower though...goal is to have rim sitting on rear fender, same with front...or at least close to it.
[img]http://i36.tinypic.com/2a0ard3.jpg[/img]

If you can get them for a good price and can resell them w/o losing too much... go for it. They are nice and subtle.

[QUOTE=carlos;275390]If you can get them for a good price and can resell them w/o losing too much... go for it. They are nice and subtle.[/QUOTE]

I found a few for $500 plus tires. I'm sure if I look around local used wheel places, I can find them for less than that. Few months back I saw some Benz wheels for $300...just didn't have $ to get them.

just picked up a dub for myself.  its old, a 91 GTI mk2 w/ vr6.  gotta get her a new valve cover gasket, rebolt on the subframe, new mounts, and reinstall the vortech.  then i can play with the exterior.  im new to the dub game so let me know if i can holla at you for info.

norman

[QUOTE=vip tint+glass;275434]just picked up a dub for myself.  its old, a 91 GTI mk2 w/ vr6.  gotta get her a new valve cover gasket, rebolt on the subframe, new mounts, and reinstall the vortech.  then i can play with the exterior.  im new to the dub game so let me know if i can holla at you for info.

norman[/QUOTE]

I love MK2s! Definitely let me know if you have any questions. Also check out VWvortex forums, lots of great info on there.

i love the dub scene, its so similar to the VIPstyling, im possibly getting a golf within the next month or so :biggthumpup:

Yeah dude, overall ideas are very similar.

Small update: fittings have arrived. Last thing on my shopping list is the power wire. I was told to get 8 gauge wire to go from my battery to compressor (Viair 450). I also found this diagram outlining where all the wires go:

[img]http://www.ericsxj.com/oba/wiring01.jpg[/img] 

What size wire should I get to go from accessory to the relay? I have also seen few diagrams where accessory wire went to the tank pressure sensor instead. Is one way better than the other?

Well this weekend was wiring hell. Ran 8gauge wire from the battery to the back, and a 14gauge from the interior fuse box (accessory) to the back of the car. Also wires on the box have been extended, soldered together, and are ready to be plugged in. Still have to get all my ground wires together and find a good spot to ground them. Might have to do 2 locations since I have about 10 or 11 ground wires.


Also what should I tap for power to my switch box?

I have AVS switch box, and this is the diagram:
Pink- + input
white-FL up
Yellow- FL down
Oragne- FR up
Red- FR down
Grey- see instructions
Green- Rl up
blue- Rl down
purple- RR up
Brown- RR down

I assume Pink is the power wire?

cant wait to see this. Your Veedub is very nice. I used to have a 89 Golf GTI 4 door imported from germany. i

cant wait to see this. Your Veedub is very nice. I used to have a 89 Golf GTI 4 door imported from germany. i miss it was a very nice ride. :sad:

so sick!

Thanks guys. The system is now in the car! Have everything wired up, compressor running, just to find out one of the valves is not closing all the way and leaks air. 

Gotta figure out if there's a way to fix it, spraying WD40 on the valves themselves didn't do anything.

Well this build seems to be filled with obstacles, delays, etc. I have a new manifold coming from AFC to replace the one that sticks, also have replacement parts coming in to keep as spares in case this happens again.

Also managed to catch the flu during the week, so the car was left untouched. Tank pressure sending unit has arrived already, so I have to figure out where I'm going to install it...might do a "y" splitter in the back side of the tank and have pressure switch and pressure sending unit attach to it.

Hopefully the manifold comes in on Monday, so I can get the rear done over the week, and sometime before the weekend hook up the fronts.

DONE! Pictures will be up shortly. All I can say is that these Mason Tech's go low!

One problem I have right now is that when I start inflating all my bags at the same time with switch in the center (operates all bags with one push), I get different PSI in all of my bags. So front right might be at 40, left at 30, rear right is at 20 and rear left is at 24...WTF?! I made sure that my front lines were same length and same with rear.

is your car corner-balanced?

[QUOTE=nunzo.;278966]is your car corner-balanced?[/QUOTE]

What do you mean?

Also pics:
[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/My%20car/IMG_3881.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/My%20car/IMG_3884.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/pavel1983/My%20car/IMG_3885.jpg[/IMG]

i mean your car weighs different amounts at different corners, so it will take different amounts of air to lift the same.  my driverside takes 20% more air to sit even than the passenger side

you also have to realize that those oil pressure sensors that AVS uses arent exactly the most accurate.  you could have the same PSI in both, they just could be reading differently

[QUOTE=nunzo.;278992]i mean your car weighs different amounts at different corners, so it will take different amounts of air to lift the same.  my driverside takes 20% more air to sit even than the passenger side

you also have to realize that those oil pressure sensors that AVS uses arent exactly the most accurate.  you could have the same PSI in both, they just could be reading differently[/QUOTE]

Ah I see. I will measure all corners when I have more time to make sure it's all even. Thank you.

He has dakota digital senders for his gauges which are pretty accurate.  I know my Q didnt sit perfectly even with the same PSI and my drivers side bags usually had 5-6 psi difference between them.

looks good.

ah, dd senders are fine then.  the ones avs uses are generic oil sending units that are just awful

nice! looks great!

Thank you!

Well I have just little under a week of driving with bags on the car.

Updates on overall driving:
-Car definitely handles better when bags are inflated to about 70psi front, and 30-35 rear. When lowered to have no gap (~45psi F, 25 R), it's a little bouncier.

-Cold weather and AFC manifolds don't mix. If you live in cold climate, get something else. Brass internals contract, causing air to leak out. If I leave the bags inflated over night, by the morning time I will have no air in bags, and very little in the tank. I will try adding some air brake antifreeze and air tool oil to my tank...hopefully that will help out. Also once the cover is made, it should help insulate some heat...otherwise it's just an inconvenience having to wait for tank to fill up every morning.

-Blew one fuse...luckily tank had enough air to lift up the car and get home where I had extra fuses. Now gonna carry a spare with me at all times...probably should carry a spare relay as well.

-The car still doesn't lay subframe! I think my tires are too big up front...so next set of wheels should allow me to go lower.