Thread #20815

Can i get your guys approval on these wheels?

39 archived posts · 5,136 historical views

hellah freshMarch 5, 2010
#304656

Can i get your guys approval on these wheels?

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These wheels are going onto my 93' Mercedes 500SEL. After searching all over for the right wheels i came to this the final choice. Reason why im asking is because i been ALL over the net for these style wheels in Euroline, Kreiss , MAE and i ahve no luck finding them in 20s'. So this is my backup plan that i want to go with. But these are Giovanna Berlin 20" in black what i like. No more chrome for me so what do you guys think?
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[img]http://wayneswheels2000.com/Giovanna_Berlin.jpg[/img]
[img]http://rimcitywheels.co.uk/catalog/images/Giovanna-BERLIN-BLK.jpg[/img]
[img]http://host.eznettools.net/~X354567/giovanna_berlin_black_mercedes.jpg[/img]

These wheels are going onto my 93' Mercedes 500SEL. After searching all over for the right wheels i came to this the final choice. Reason why im asking is because i been ALL over the net for these style wheels in Euroline, Kreiss , MAE and i ahve no luck finding them in 20s'. So this is my backup plan that i want to go with. But these are Giovanna Berlin 20" in black what i like. No more chrome for me so what do you guys think?
vip tint+glassMarch 5, 2010
#304663
ive always liked them, but i like step lips
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ive always liked them, but i like step lips
BAHCMarch 5, 2010
#304666
for me, the black finish completely changes the look of the wheel. it all depends on how your eye perceives it, but to me, the chrome looks like a full face with holes, and teh black looks like thick triangle spokes. i prefer the chrome
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for me, the black finish completely changes the look of the wheel.  it all depends on how your eye perceives it, but to me, the chrome looks like a full face with holes, and teh black looks like thick triangle spokes.  i prefer the chrome
urmyhero4nowMarch 5, 2010
#304668
Who cares about our approval man? If you like the wheels, then go ahead and get them. We are just a forum online. Not the judicial branch on dopeness.
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Who cares about our approval man? If you like the wheels, then go ahead and get them. We are just a forum online. Not the judicial branch on dopeness.
hellah freshMarch 5, 2010
#304672
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My car will look just like this guys car but my car is silver. I was going for that Lamborgini Revention look with silver/black. The car above... the guy is selling those wheels for $800 + Stocks and it is located in Cali. Well i was just asking because someone said knockoffs are a no no lol. And here is the dudes craiglist posting. Like Vip Tint said i do like the step lips too but those are soo hard to find in 3pc. But giving up my stocks for the chrome... hmmm.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/1626103135.html
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[img]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/blaznrich/billblanco2.jpg?t=1267600456[/img]
[img]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/blaznrich/IMG_0113.jpg?t=1267600548[/img]
[img]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/blaznrich/IMG_0121.jpg?t=1267600593[/img]
[img]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/blaznrich/IMG_0111.jpg?t=1267600627[/img]
[img]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/blaznrich/billyblanco.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/blaznrich/billyblanco3.jpg[/img]


My car will look just like this guys car but my car is silver. I was going for that Lamborgini Revention look with silver/black. The car above... the guy is selling those wheels for $800 + Stocks and it is located in Cali. Well i was just asking because someone said knockoffs are a no no lol. And here is the dudes craiglist posting. Like Vip Tint said i do like the step lips too but those are soo hard to find in 3pc. But giving up my stocks for the chrome... hmmm.

[url]http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/1626103135.html[/url]
urmyhero4nowMarch 5, 2010
#304674
garagefresh;304673 wrote:they suck....



Care to elaborate why they suck? I actually think the way he wants to do it is not half bad. And That style wheel has been knock off'd so many times I don't even know whos design that is. People are gonna hate on them more because they are an American brand.

If you can pull it off right man do it. Just to let you know though. If your building this car for other people. Your probably not gonna get the response you are seeking.
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[QUOTE=garagefresh;304673]they suck....[/QUOTE]


Care to elaborate why they suck? I actually think the way he wants to do it is not half bad. And That style wheel has been knock off'd so many times I don't even know whos design that is. People are gonna hate on them more because they are an American brand.

If you can pull it off right man do it. Just to let you know though. If your building this car for other people. Your probably not gonna get the response you are seeking.
garagefreshMarch 5, 2010
#304677
The whole black barrell I just don't like. I could be wrong, but I do not think they come wide or low offset/disc set-up
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The whole black barrell I just don't like. I could be wrong, but I do not think they come wide or low offset/disc set-up
urmyhero4nowMarch 5, 2010
#304678
garagefresh;304677 wrote: I do not think they come wide or low offset/disc set-up


You have a good point. That would probably kill these wheels off. ALTHOUGH, cars dont need a low offset, big lip wheel. Sometimes less is more.
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[QUOTE=garagefresh;304677] I do not think they come wide or low offset/disc set-up[/QUOTE]

 You have a good point. That would probably kill these wheels off. ALTHOUGH, cars dont need a low offset, big lip wheel. Sometimes less is more.
garagefreshMarch 5, 2010
#304679
Correct, but you have to at least have the width. 20" x 8" or 8.5" wheel on his MB are gonna look (facepalm)
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Correct, but you have to at least have the width. 20" x 8" or 8.5" wheel on his MB are gonna look (facepalm)
vip tint+glassMarch 5, 2010
#304680
theyre 9.5 and 10 staggered. for that price id do it. and if your opinion changes and you wanna go with a high end wheels later you can just resell them. at that price u have options. as far as buying them brand new, i wouldnt.
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theyre 9.5 and 10 staggered.  for that price id do it.  and if your opinion changes and you wanna go with a high end wheels later you can just resell them.  at that price u have options.  as far as buying them brand new, i wouldnt.
VJ_400March 5, 2010
#304681
vip tint+glass;304680 wrote:theyre 9.5 and 10 staggered. for that price id do it. and if your opinion changes and you wanna go with a high end wheels later you can just resell them. at that price u have options. as far as buying them brand new, i wouldnt.


i agree i wouldnt buy them brand new there are enough of that style wheel floating around for dirt cheap with good sizes and offsets jdm-wheels.com has that style wheel all over the site i ordered my first set of wheels from them.
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[QUOTE=vip tint+glass;304680]theyre 9.5 and 10 staggered.  for that price id do it.  and if your opinion changes and you wanna go with a high end wheels later you can just resell them.  at that price u have options.  as far as buying them brand new, i wouldnt.[/QUOTE]

i agree i wouldnt buy them brand new there are enough of that style wheel floating around for dirt cheap with good sizes and offsets jdm-wheels.com has that style wheel all over the site i ordered my first set of wheels from them.
VIP-UCFMarch 5, 2010
#304687
i don't like...way better options out there...
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i don't like...way better options out there...
hellah freshMarch 5, 2010
#304688
Thanks for your input guys! I called up a wheel shop that has them and the specs on these wheels are 20x8.5 et 32, 20x10 et 40. So these should fit well with my stock offset. The thing is my offset are 35/51 lol. VJ im going to check that site out and see what i can find.. hopefully there are some 20s' somewhere.


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Thanks for your input guys! I called up a wheel shop that has them and the specs on these wheels are 20x8.5 et 32, 20x10 et 40. So these should fit well with my stock offset. The thing is my offset are 35/51 lol. VJ im going to check that site out and see what i can find.. hopefully there are some 20s' somewhere.


[img]http://gangstervip.ru/vip/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/129-530x256.jpg[/img]
[img]http://gangstervip.ru/vip/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/0519-530x397.jpg[/img]
BrandicusMarch 5, 2010
#304689
well if your shooting for that mb youll have to go mucho more aggressive, its also not rockin giovannis i assure you.
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well if your shooting for that mb youll have to go mucho more aggressive, its also not rockin giovannis i assure you.
garagefreshMarch 5, 2010
#304693
I think (not 100%) those are Vienna's
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I think (not 100%) those are Vienna's
augdoggMarch 5, 2010
#304697
Those look kewl....do it!
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Those look kewl....do it!
NELSON09March 5, 2010
#304706
Roll on those. Full faced wheels look dope on Benzs. I think that yellow euro trash looking S class is on MAE wheels. I also agree with what was said earlier about less being more sometimes, especially on an MB.
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Roll on those. Full faced wheels look dope on Benzs. I think that yellow euro trash looking S class is on MAE wheels. I also agree with what was said earlier about less being more sometimes, especially on an MB.
hellah freshMarch 5, 2010
#304713
Yeah that yellow is trash but that stance is SICKKK! dude pushing 18x13.5" in the rear. As aggressive goes... i did the wheel calculation and the front will poke out 1.2" and the rears are 1.5" Other then that if i cant find the real 3pc then these are the last resort.
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Yeah that yellow is trash but that stance is SICKKK! dude pushing 18x13.5" in the rear. As aggressive goes... i did the wheel calculation and the front will poke out 1.2" and the rears are 1.5" Other then that if i cant find the real 3pc then these are the last resort.
NELSON09March 5, 2010
#304724
hellah fresh;304713 wrote:Yeah that yellow is trash but that stance is SICKKK! dude pushing 18x13.5" in the rear. As aggressive goes... i did the wheel calculation and the front will poke out 1.2" and the rears are 1.5" Other then that if i cant find the real 3pc then these are the last resort.

I didn't mean the car is trash, I meant "euro trash" style. But yeah, agreed, his set up is ideal. Looks like his wheels poke that much with out fender work.
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[QUOTE=hellah fresh;304713]Yeah that yellow is trash but that stance is SICKKK! dude pushing 18x13.5" in the rear. As aggressive goes... i did the wheel calculation and the front will poke out 1.2" and the rears are 1.5" Other then that if i cant find the real 3pc then these are the last resort.[/QUOTE]
I didn't mean the car is trash, I meant "euro trash" style. But yeah, agreed, his set up is ideal. Looks like his wheels poke that much with out fender work.
hellah freshMarch 5, 2010
#304725
Haha he going for that euro RatRod look. So i went to the vwvortex forums and made a WTB post on those rims or whatever is similar and hopefully i can get some feedback. Do you think on that yellow benz he aggressively pulled/roll those rear fenders?
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Haha he going for that euro RatRod look. So i went to the vwvortex forums and made a WTB post on those rims or whatever is similar and hopefully i can get some feedback. Do you think on that yellow benz he aggressively pulled/roll those rear fenders?
NELSON09March 5, 2010
#304728
hellah fresh;304725 wrote:Haha he going for that euro RatRod look. So i went to the vwvortex forums and made a WTB post on those rims or whatever is similar and hopefully i can get some feedback. Do you think on that yellow benz he aggressively pulled/roll those rear fenders?

They look flared like Bimmer fenders or something. Fronts too. Looks like more than a roll/pull job to me.
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[QUOTE=hellah fresh;304725]Haha he going for that euro RatRod look. So i went to the vwvortex forums and made a WTB post on those rims or whatever is similar and hopefully i can get some feedback. Do you think on that yellow benz he aggressively pulled/roll those rear fenders?[/QUOTE]
They look flared like Bimmer fenders or something. Fronts too. Looks like more than a roll/pull job to me.
BlitzMarch 5, 2010
#304732
didn't MAE make wheels like that before?? Called crown jewel?

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didn't MAE make wheels like that before??   Called crown jewel?

[img]http://wwoutlet.net/wheelpics/mae/bigpics/crownjewel3p.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1365/mae062qh3.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/151/dsc00915mq1.jpg[/img]
NELSON09March 5, 2010
#304734
Blitz;304732 wrote:didn't MAE make wheels like that before?? Called crown jewel?


NELSON09;304706 wrote:Roll on those. Full faced wheels look dope on Benzs. I think that yellow euro trash looking S class is on MAE wheels. I also agree with what was said earlier about less being more sometimes, especially on an MB.

Yessir. On of my all time favorites.
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[QUOTE=Blitz;304732]didn't MAE make wheels like that before??   Called crown jewel?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NELSON09;304706]Roll on those. Full faced wheels look dope on Benzs. I think that yellow euro trash looking S class is on MAE wheels. I also agree with what was said earlier about less being more sometimes, especially on an MB.[/QUOTE]
Yessir. On of my all time favorites.
silos5March 5, 2010
#304735
hellah fresh, I´m more then sure it´s possible to get used MAEs for MB from Germany.

found on ebay.de:
http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crown-Jewel-11-13-x-20-SL-R230-CL-NEU-BRUTAL_W0QQitemZ180475799031QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item2a053225f7

http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crownjewel-9-5-11x20-Mercedes-SL-CLS-E-Klasse-usw_W0QQitemZ370332436883QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item5639888993

there are german forums selling wheels you want for sure..need to search!
I dont know how much those giovanas are, but MAE are $$$$$$.
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hellah fresh, I´m more then sure it´s possible to get used MAEs for MB from Germany.

found on ebay.de:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crown-Jewel-11-13-x-20-SL-R230-CL-NEU-BRUTAL_W0QQitemZ180475799031QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item2a053225f7[/url]

[url]http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crownjewel-9-5-11x20-Mercedes-SL-CLS-E-Klasse-usw_W0QQitemZ370332436883QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item5639888993[/url]

there are german forums selling wheels you want for sure..need to search!
I dont know how much those giovanas are, but MAE are $$$$$$.
NELSON09March 5, 2010
#304737
silos5;304735 wrote:hellah fresh, I´m more then sure it´s possible to get used MAEs for MB from Germany.

found on ebay.de:
http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crown-Jewel-11-13-x-20-SL-R230-CL-NEU-BRUTAL_W0QQitemZ180475799031QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item2a053225f7

http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crownjewel-9-5-11x20-Mercedes-SL-CLS-E-Klasse-usw_W0QQitemZ370332436883QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item5639888993

there are german forums selling wheels you want for sure..need to search!
I dont know how much those giovanas are, but MAE are $$$$$$.


Yeah, there was a guy a few months back in Texas (I think) selling "raw" or unfinished crown jewels for dirt cheap. He had quantity.
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[QUOTE=silos5;304735]hellah fresh, I´m more then sure it´s possible to get used MAEs for MB from Germany.

found on ebay.de:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crown-Jewel-11-13-x-20-SL-R230-CL-NEU-BRUTAL_W0QQitemZ180475799031QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item2a053225f7[/url]

[url]http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crownjewel-9-5-11x20-Mercedes-SL-CLS-E-Klasse-usw_W0QQitemZ370332436883QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item5639888993[/url]

there are german forums selling wheels you want for sure..need to search!
I dont know how much those giovanas are, but MAE are $$$$$$.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, there was a guy a few months back in Texas (I think) selling "raw"  or unfinished crown jewels for dirt cheap. He had quantity.
*chalo*March 6, 2010
#304766
Those wheels looks like mine =)

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Those wheels looks like mine =)
 
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk280/zilviaVIPjdm/ijpuio.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk280/zilviaVIPjdm/564075817_Nn5pR-L-1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk280/zilviaVIPjdm/564094407_9eTrb-M-1.jpg[/IMG]
jeebusMarch 6, 2010
#304772
Now that Geovanna makes these Im gonna see them in a lot of rap videos.
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Now that Geovanna makes these Im gonna see them in a lot of rap videos.
hellah freshMarch 6, 2010
#304893
silos5;304735 wrote:hellah fresh, I´m more then sure it´s possible to get used MAEs for MB from Germany.

found on ebay.de:
http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crown-Jewel-11-13-x-20-SL-R230-CL-NEU-BRUTAL_W0QQitemZ180475799031QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item2a053225f7

http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crownjewel-9-5-11x20-Mercedes-SL-CLS-E-Klasse-usw_W0QQitemZ370332436883QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item5639888993

there are german forums selling wheels you want for sure..need to search!
I dont know how much those giovanas are, but MAE are $$$$$$.




DAMN 8Gs!? But i guess it cost to be the boss but 8gz... im not balling that hard yet but THATS' THAT SHIT RIGH THERE! lol. Good find i wish i can afford to drop that much on wheels but i can do alot with 8g. The specs are perfect on them. Well in the Vwvortex no luck there. There are mostly bentley wheels floating on that site. As the giovanna pricing wise... $1600 w/tires or 1100 w/o.


VIPy33 - i hate u!


UPDATE! BTW look what i found! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4334074 but 19x8??
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[QUOTE=silos5;304735]hellah fresh, I´m more then sure it´s possible to get used MAEs for MB from Germany.

found on ebay.de:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crown-Jewel-11-13-x-20-SL-R230-CL-NEU-BRUTAL_W0QQitemZ180475799031QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item2a053225f7[/url]

[url]http://cgi.ebay.de/MAE-Crownjewel-9-5-11x20-Mercedes-SL-CLS-E-Klasse-usw_W0QQitemZ370332436883QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAuto_Felgen?hash=item5639888993[/url]

there are german forums selling wheels you want for sure..need to search!
I dont know how much those giovanas are, but MAE are $$$$$$.[/QUOTE]



DAMN 8Gs!? But i guess it cost to be the boss but 8gz... im not balling that hard yet but THATS' THAT SHIT RIGH THERE! lol. Good find i wish i can afford to drop that much on wheels but i can do alot with 8g. The specs are perfect on them. Well in the Vwvortex no luck there. There are mostly bentley wheels floating on that site. As the giovanna pricing wise... $1600  w/tires  or 1100 w/o.


VIPy33 - i hate u!


UPDATE! BTW look what i found! [url]http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4334074[/url] but 19x8??
silos5March 6, 2010
#304894
yeah, price is huge. I dont know whats up with these germans, but I was asked almost 5000 $ for 19'' Work Varianzas! :laugh:
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yeah, price is huge. I dont know whats up with these germans, but I was asked almost 5000 $ for 19'' Work Varianzas! :laugh:
NELSON09March 6, 2010
#304904
...you've got pm =)
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...you've got pm =)
silos5March 8, 2010
#305232
may be you should ask BIMMER, he has MAEs on his MB W140 S500.
I believe he doesnt visit VSC that often, so you can find him here: http://gangstervip.ru/vip/ his email: [EMAIL="vip-gangster@yandex.ru"]vip-gangster@yandex.ru[/EMAIL]
that guy seems not to speak english that good, so if you need, I can find info out, I speak Russian. :wavey:
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may be you should ask BIMMER, he has MAEs on his MB W140 S500.
I believe he doesnt visit VSC that often, so you can find him here: [URL]http://gangstervip.ru/vip/[/URL] his email: [EMAIL="vip-gangster@yandex.ru"]vip-gangster@yandex.ru[/EMAIL] 
that guy seems not to speak english that good, so if you need, I can find info out, I speak Russian. :wavey:
hellah freshMarch 8, 2010
#305283
^^ oh that guy speaks english.. he is on a benz forum that i am on. Speaking of that he just posted a few more picures of his car. Well guys over the weekend i went to 4 different forums and they all sold their wheels. Also some dude also sold a set of 19"s on friday.. DAMN. I was late 1 day. But i will search some more until i find a set. But i have a 01 Suzuki gsxr that i might want to trade with someone lol.
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^^ oh that guy speaks english.. he is on a benz forum that i am on. Speaking of that he just posted a few more picures of his car. Well guys over the weekend i went to 4 different forums and they all sold their wheels. Also some dude also sold a set of 19"s on friday.. DAMN. I was late 1 day. But i will search some more until i find a set. But i have a 01 Suzuki gsxr that i might want to trade with someone lol.
hellah freshMarch 10, 2010
#305848
Sooo i finally located some MAE Crown Jewels but in 19" the wheels are 19x8.5"/10 and he is asking "lower price 2275.00 with brand new toyo proxy 4 or 1700.00 with out tires". So is that a good price?


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Sooo i finally located some MAE Crown Jewels but in 19" the wheels are 19x8.5"/10 and he is asking "lower price 2275.00 with brand new toyo proxy 4 or 1700.00 with out tires". So is that a good price? 


[img]http://www.mbworld.org/forums/attachments/wheels-tires/166360d1253679987-fs-19-inch-mae-crown-jewel-3-pcs-044.jpg[/img]
VIP-UCFMarch 10, 2010
#305860
you can find better...
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you can find better...
NELSON09March 10, 2010
#305899
hellah fresh;305848 wrote:Sooo i finally located some MAE Crown Jewels but in 19" the wheels are 19x8.5"/10 and he is asking "lower price 2275.00 with brand new toyo proxy 4 or 1700.00 with out tires". So is that a good price?


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$1700, w/ out tires is a good price man. Look how much they are going for on the other side of the pond. I'd move on them. If you're still on the fence just watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJpcTh-52kY&feature=PlayList&p=95AD1BE80319FD63&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=7

...$1700? : hell yeah=)
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[QUOTE=hellah fresh;305848]Sooo i finally located some MAE Crown Jewels but in 19" the wheels are 19x8.5"/10 and he is asking "lower price 2275.00 with brand new toyo proxy 4 or 1700.00 with out tires". So is that a good price? 


[img]http://www.mbworld.org/forums/attachments/wheels-tires/166360d1253679987-fs-19-inch-mae-crown-jewel-3-pcs-044.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

$1700, w/ out tires is a good price man. Look how much they are going for on the other side of the pond. I'd move on them. If you're still on the fence just watch 

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJpcTh-52kY&feature=PlayList&p=95AD1BE80319FD63&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=7[/url]

...$1700? : hell yeah=)
hellah freshMarch 10, 2010
#305908
^^^ Yup its tempting and i lvoe how those wheels look.


VIP-UCF;305860 wrote:you can find better...


i feel you on this... i see 19" sets on alot of other forums that averages around 1000+. What do you think is a fair price for those wheels?
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^^^ Yup its tempting and i lvoe how those wheels look.


[QUOTE=VIP-UCF;305860]you can find better...[/QUOTE]

i feel you on this... i see 19" sets on alot of other forums that averages around 1000+. What do you think is a fair price for those wheels?
NELSON09March 10, 2010
#305910
hellah fresh;305908 wrote:^^^ Yup its tempting and i lvoe how those wheels look.




i feel you on this... i see 19" sets on alot of other forums that averages around 1000+. What do you think is a fair price for those wheels?


Oops, I meant watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8gowLm6n-g&feature=PlayList&p=95AD1BE80319FD63&index=8

Good luck with your dilema.
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[QUOTE=hellah fresh;305908]^^^ Yup its tempting and i lvoe how those wheels look.




i feel you on this... i see 19" sets on alot of other forums that averages around 1000+. What do you think is a fair price for those wheels?[/QUOTE]

Oops, I meant watch
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8gowLm6n-g&feature=PlayList&p=95AD1BE80319FD63&index=8[/url]

Good luck with your dilema.
NELSON09March 12, 2010
#306249
Here's another good example of Crown Jewels fitted on a Benz. Trip out, it's a female rolling the 220...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLO0ELxe5Q
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Here's another good example of Crown Jewels fitted on a Benz. Trip out, it's a female rolling the 220...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLO0ELxe5Q[/url]