So you wanna buy air runner ?

After seeing this stuff first hand it is a complete rip off .
Like someone ( I'll let them name their bandwagon) mentioned before it  is really just Firestone bags on off the shelf KYB struts.
There is nothing special about this suspension it is physically the same  as what you can buy from a local auto parts store and a truck parts  store.

After the shocks everything else is even more down hill . The lines ,the  fittings , the tank , everything is made to be as cheap as possible and  no where close to safe and reliable.
I can't believe they price this crap through the roof and hand you bare  bones parts.
Manual switches for "F" sake did you just pull this stuff out of your  tractor to put in your car ? They could not supply at least solenoids  for valves .After trying to say they are the leaders in the segment.

They feel running a dot line all the way to the airbag from the switch  is good and safe ( it must be be because that is the way its sold) . I  would never run a dot line in a flexible environment .It is made for  mild amounts of flex but not total separation from the body structure .  You need stainless steel braided line especially for the front wheels  which turn and move up and down . DOT line pinches which a braided line  cannot . Never mind it has no water trap which every single car should  have. For some reason they believe these are luxury items .

Do not buy this or support air runner until they get their heads in  check .
The price should be in the $2500-3000 max retail.
The hardware alone is barely $100 worth the compressor is atleast the  basic proper one . A chrome tank with only 4 ports , a 380 viair comp  $150 , $20 manual switches and 1/4 dot line and its RED !
Figure your own car but a set of KYB shocks only cost $400 - 700 a set .
Firestone bags are 100-150 a bag . Add that up and it does not make any  cents ....
The only thing they do is assemble a kit with custom $300 brackets to  fit an airbag to the shock. It really is not that hard to make a bracket  as it uses bolts. Pretty much like UAS which is really overpriced for  bags and brackets. 

If you have an airrunner kit your probably dieing to put it in and this  will not phase you but might give you something to think about. Look to  make the system better for the car and yourself driving it. 

Everyone wants to be a baller and these guys know it so they are price  gouging .

If you disagree with my evaluation please let me know but respond in a  intelligent manner with what I might have said or understood wrong .

all i have to say is seeing and having are completely different.

[QUOTE=vip tint+glass;330844]all i have to say is seeing and having are completely different.[/QUOTE]
 
Ditto.
 
But I agree with you in someways. 
From my understanding from the company(air runner) is that they use special valve set-ups for their kits, I could be wrong but thats what I was told at SEMA a few years ago. Also the kits are DOT approve specialy for air bags is kinda hard to get.
KYB is one of the biggest suspension companys out there. From OEM to aftermarket. check your coils that you buy those struts are most of the time KYB.
 
 
 
so KYB cant be that cheap.

you seen the new lambo?

that things way overpriced and IMO garbage, so i made my own. im into it for about 27k
[img]http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/390/lamboa.jpg[/img]

KYB is in no way a cheap company but the parts are well in line with the cost of other companies shocks. 
The internal valving of the KYB shocks I also cannot claim to knowing . From outer shell inspection it is a regular shock. Valving would only make it stiffer or smoother but that is dependent on the drivers preference not really the bags physics since they don't know the operators pressures which equal spring rates of 1000kg's .


VIP tint , your making statements out of anger ( i assume because you have air runner) and no making rational arguments so really what can I reply to ?
Like I said make a rational argument to what I said and why it is wrong.

:innoutrofl2:

:smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl:

FACT:
i am on airrunner
there arent many cars that have an older setup than mine
not one problem to date


ive rode in almost all the setups out there, and i still think airrunner is the nicest
now its not the cheapest, and its not the most aggressive.
if you want something aggressive stick to coils or cups

this is VIP and airrunner IMHO has the nicest ride at any height.

Personally....

I have gone thru quite a few setups on all the builds that I have owned.  My first and current build, I went with a "cheaper" setup.  It was cheaper yes, however, I have had nothing but problems with it.  Not to mention, the ride quality that goes with it.  I hated it.  My builds that had Airrunner it, I miss it not because of the build but because of the airrunner setup.

I'm not saying Air Runner is the end all of air suspensions.  I am pretty sure that are a lot out there that is probably cheaper, easier to get.  What I did get out of Air runner was a complete kit that I can install in an afternoon that was dependable.  Also, the support I got when I had a couple questions was quick and reliable.  That was important to me.  Is it an expensive kit? Yes.  Do I regret every buying any Air Runner setup?  Nope.  I've ordered another setup for my GS400 that I will happily install. I'm sure I can get another setup, or maybe put together one myself that would come out cheaper.  Why should I?  Air Runner is tried and tested.  Why bother? I don't mind paying a premium for something that I know works and is reliable.  I don't want to do the leg work anymore.  I've paid my dues when I built the first few cars.  Now, I just want to enjoy my cars again. 

We all have our opinions and I respect that. Thats what makes our community unique.  I just hope you aren't bashing Air Runner for personal reasons like to promote another air suspension kit.

One word...



"Juice".

[QUOTE=elpresidente;330882]One word...



"Juice".[/QUOTE]

:smiley-rofl::dance:

Not to be confused with Joose

i dunno.. i am with this guy.. I showed it to my buddy who has gone through more fittings and lines and bags, tested them all over 10 years with different mini truck setups.. and he to agreed its rubbish, and would rather piece together your own kit, so you get better fitings and lines and valves. It is cheap stuff. I know this.. people have good experience with it i am sure.. but maybe just the lucky ones. I go with his opinion for the knowledge he has in it.. Say all you want against it.. but when its backed up by fact, cant argue. For the price of the kit, you can have all the nice stuff to go with.

:smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl:

you're not just paying for the strut and bag.  I didn't use all their cheap fittings.  You are also paying for the time and engineering to be a complete bolt on kit, brackets and all.  Sure you can piece all of that together and fab up your own brackets...fact is that not everyone has that kind of skill and/or time.  You can take it to a shop and have them do it...but can you trust just any shop with a 30k-60k(depending on car of course)  luxury car?  I have a bagged truck and have seen so many hack jobs claiming to be "professional".  So  the fact is that you are also paying for stuff that is already engineered for bolt on and tested to work.  Firestones are great bags and KYB is great shocks (adjustable too).  So yes, I agree that they skimped out on fittings, but fittings are real cheap and you can buy the good ones and put them on.

i forgot to mention, I didn't end up using their air management either.  I bought the airpod from ride tech.

all this gripe about price point, but i haven't seen too many people with complaints when it comes to their airrunner systems. say what you want about the tech, but not everyone has access to materials and tools to make custom parts and sometimes off the shelf is your best solution for not fucking everything up. sometimes the coin is worth it to make sure stuff doesn't screw up when you need it the most.

I just think that the OP is just not Baller enough to get the Air Runner System for his car... that he's trying to find reasons to justify not getting it... 
 
I've had my AirRunner system for about a year and a half... Tested and Proven through the streets of NYC EVERY SINGLE DAY... Sun, Rain, Sleet, Hale, Snow, Ice, etc... The system works like the Postal Service... Nothing stops it... If anyone lives in the Northeast, specially NYC, they know that the roads are crazy and the climate is unforgiving. 
 
Yes, I didn't use none of there fittings or their air management system. Like other's have mentioned, fittings and lines are cheap. I used stainless braided lines in the wheel wells and my system came with BLACK 3/8" lines... Dakota Auto Leveling System that's pressure and Height Based controls my smooth like MILK (LECHE in Spanish)  ride. 
 
I'm a happy Air Runner Customer... Worth every penny...

A few things "first".
I expected alot of push back about the negatives of the air runner systems i noted.
I am in no way promoting any other system including my own which for this purpose will remain nameless , but easily searched out to find.
I implore open dialogue in the thread for other peoples opinions as that is what is going to take the "VIP thing" to the next level and bring it to a more main stream market .
I am in no way hating on air runner , I have no need to I dislike them , only the  price point for what they give you and as mentioned before they are gouging you .

I would expect most to be happy with their air-runner systems . It is made for the masses to be installed on a driveway. Unless you are a technician or engineer or just someone who deals with pneumatics on more than an occasional basis it will seem perfect . What other reason would you have to not think so ? This thread is here so you know what your getting and can get a large amount of objective opinions.

The engineering factor and parts factor is interesting as the KYB shocks they send you sealed in a KYB box has KYB factory sku numbers , so they are not custom making them for air runner. Designing a plate with holes to adapt the bags to the shocks , well you figure how much time it would take to have a machine shop make a template from a blueprint .

Now in regards to the lines being pinched and stainless being a waste of time. I have yet to see a car with suspension that does not move . If you find one please let me know other than it being parked or in a junkyard and such .You can "get by" using DOT line to the bags but so can duct tape to hold your bumper on . On tractor trailers which is what DOT verified line is for do they run the same DOT line to the air cylinders that follow the body of the truck then leave it to attach to the suspension or air brakes?

Trying to insult me because you don't agree with what I said makes me laugh , grow up for gods sake . What are you 12 throwing hissy fits in the playground because someone took your dolly away :smiley-rofl:. LMAO. Not baller enough I don't need to impress anyone with my car I own my own house . LMAO

What I don't get is if most aren't using the fittings, lines or even the air management and there's nothing special about the pump, tank or even the struts what is the point?
I think the OP's point is value/dollar and it doesn't seem like Airrunner has much.
 
I have zero experience with any air suspension. I do plan on some sort of air suspension over the winter so this topic definitely has interest to me.

build your own shit your own way. these so called complete kits r a rip off. nuff sed.

zero problems with airrunner...but then again...I paid for my $2600 for my kit brand new from an inside hookup in Japan.  That's lower than most dealers can get them.  I have 3 bagged rides currently.  Airrunner is the only one that is not custom.  Its the only one that doesn't have problems at the moment as well.  I'm talking about small problems though, like junk in the valves and such.

If Airrunner came with nicer valves and fittings and maybe dual compressors it would be worth it. The only thing worth anything are the bags/shocks. And when those shocks blow they're not replaceable. Also I've been in a car with Airrunner and it doesn't ride so nice especially when you're driving low. It's nice to have a bolt on setup but for the price you could build a custom setup that performs much better. It's like the Dell of air suspensions.

i have to agree with skperformance on this, for the price you pay, you dont even get steel braided lines to the bags is ridiculous.  beyond ridiculous. 
Charley

[QUOTE=elpresidente;330882]One word...



"Juice".[/QUOTE]

Hahaha....you said it before I could! :smiley-rofl:

I've read too many problems with other universal bags compared to airrunner, but yes, once those shocks blow...you're done.  That is a very good point, and if they did come with better valves and compressors, they would be worth it more.  Why do you need steel braided lines?  LOL.  If your DOT lines blow, your installation has a flaw.

air runner has it's place. it is a well put together system that has proven itself to be the most reliable over time (i remember first seeing ar in the early 2000s, way before i was on to vip). you really can't complain too much about their component selection given the track record. yeah, it's off the shelf parts; yeah, the air managment side is lacking (i'm not opposed to manual valves, but not at a premium price); and yeah, they're taxing. until someone else steps up with a direct competitor they have a monopoly on that segment of the market. that, combined with their reputation and a little hype, means that they can charge what they want and get it.
 
the [I]real[/I] downfall of air runner isn't the lack of value, it's the actual design.

[QUOTE=chrispy;330937]If Airrunner came with nicer valves and fittings and maybe dual compressors it would be worth it. The only thing worth anything are the bags/shocks. And when those shocks blow they're not replaceable. Also I've been in a car with Airrunner and it doesn't ride so nice especially when you're driving low. It's nice to have a bolt on setup but for the price you could build a custom setup that performs much better. It's like the Dell of air suspensions.[/QUOTE]

LOL! says the guy who's on UAS and keeps blowing his bags LOL!!!!!

End story for me - Have airrunner, love airrunner, no regrets on the money I've spent for it. Will continue to support and rep it. :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;330956]LOL! says the guy who's on UAS and keeps blowing his bags LOL!!!!!

End story for me - Have airrunner, love airrunner, no regrets on the money I've spent for it. Will continue to support and rep it. :biggthumpup:[/QUOTE]

I can't knock UAS for their design. It is a universal bag setup. The problem is the 2GS. Air suspension just doesn't work out for it. Airrunner is just way too soft for the height I want to drive at.

Plus, every time I had an issue with my setup it was very easy to fix. If I blew an Airrunner shock I wouldn't want to replace it.

AR is for people who dont want to know, or learn about air suspension setups. they just want it so they can ride low and so on. Just like Megan and Ksport, those are coilovers for people who dont know about suspension and believe that 900 dollars for coilovers is tooo much. If you never rode on Tein mono flex's or Kw and bilstien.. then you wont know the difference.

So I think to sum this up.. it is a perfect kit for someone who wants to vip their car out but doesn't want to go the lengths and build their own kit. If one had an idea or was knowledgeable about such products.. They would build their own kit, regardless of ar bold world ect. you buy the kit, and its bumpy or the ride sucks.. or you have a shop put it on or w/e. You wont know how to deal with it, when something happens. or how to get a better ride from your car.

From my experience the setup would consist of braided line from bag to frame, then run "hard" line to a tank. I dont believe any soft line should be ran under or around the exterior of the car. This minimizes leaks cracking weathering and so on. Hard-line is cheap as hell to buy and not hard to bend. I also probably would not use a air compressor or tank.. and just run a engine compressor. One of those compressors alone fills bags like you had a tank. Especially if you are not hitting switches on people and just want it to go up, and or lay it out.
With this you cut down on a lot of would be could be problems. The more simple a setup is, the less there is to go wrong. But because I know a machinist that has gone through the trials.. he became one so he can make his own stuff, for how tired he was of finding nothing but crap. lol 

Cant blame anyone but your self if you make your own setup.

OP always bitches when he can't afford stuff. 

My friends air runner rides great, personally i found my UAS/coilover set up rides just as good as air runner so I still saved a couple hundred dollars and this includes having dual compressors and a digital set up.  I almost went with air runner and must say the fact that its straight bolt on was the biggest selling point.  I'd like to ride in one of their newer coil/bag kits but with the price I doubt I will anytime soon.

I really don't understand the point of this thread, if you can't afford it or simply think it isn't worth your money than simply move on and find another route.

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;330975]AR is for people who dont want to know, or learn about air suspension setups. [/QUOTE]
gonna have to call BS on this one.... all 3 of my rides are bagged. The only non custom kit is the airrunner. Matter of fact, my truck is hardlined all the way to the bag...
 
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/speedaddict/silverado/Picture182.jpg[/IMG]
 
I did research on the universal bags, looked at airrunner, and compared it to building a custom kit out of shockwaves. I couldve done the shockwave route to close to 3500 with the ride tech pod/management and gone cheaper if I bought the tanks and compressors and did a different electronic air management. I talked to a buddy and got the airrunners for 2600 shipped...kind of a no brainer there.
 
so to say that I don't know or don't care about learning...you're waaay off.:slap:
 
back to the subject though.  YES you can build a kit cheaper.  Just know what you're getting into first and do research on the shop that may do it, but you know the saying...if you want it done right...

everyone has different needs. air runner is an option for those who want a simple and reliable system but take the cost out of the equation and look at the design (quality is obviously not in question). the fact of the matter is it is not optimal for all users. many make an educated choice to go ar because it suits their needs. just as often someone makes an uneducated decision based on the hype.

[QUOTE=charley240sx;330938]i have to agree with skperformance on this, for the price you pay, you dont even get steel braided lines to the bags is ridiculous. beyond ridiculous. 
Charley[/QUOTE]
 
i agree with this tho $5k for a air bag kit and the stuff is pretty cheap. 
 
I would include braided lines or custom made hardlines that would make it more calssu more oem look IMO. 
hmmm This is giving me Ideas. brb gotta make a phone call =)

call me uneducated all you want because I personally went BACK to Air Runner.  I am with Thomas, I have ran different setups on other builds, and my GS400 has a custom built Air suspension setup.  I've owned cylinders, UAS, and Air Runner. I personally have had nothing but problems with my currently installed.  My cars that had Air Runner installed never had a problem at all. I understand everyone's points in regards to price points as well as "parts used" Mind you that I got this setup done before Air Runner ever set foot in the US and what not.  Like I said, I want Air Runner for the ease of use / install on the unit.  I don't mind paying a premium for a setup that was built to be bolt in easily and easily managed.  I can change the fittings and lines to my liking, and will be working with Air Runner to setup a custom kit for my car.  I know what I want out of my next air suspension kit, I know I will get out of Air Runner.  I'll be happy with that personally.  I don't mind paying the extra premium at all.  Guess I am that uneducated after all cause I don't feel like going and making my own custom kit again.

i think you misunderstood john. what i am saying is that air runner [I]is[/I] right for some people. being that you had already had it, it was an educated choice.
 
i'm not really comparing ar to other airbag systems. when you get down to it they're all the same in how they function. i am comparing ar to different types of suspension such as cups, hyraulics, and coilovers. i prefer a different type of ride quality and am mostly concerned with being low [I]all[/I] the time (not to prove anything, it's just what i like). adjustability is nice for tough obstacles but i don't really really need it (i do want it). i am more concerned with how the suspension functions at the height i want to be at. this includes suspension travel, stiffness, damping, geometry, etc.
 
air bag setups (especially bolt-in systems) are generally optimized at ride height, with the ability to go lower or higher. outside of the sweet spot nothing is ideal. every other type i mentioned can be dialed in at it's lowest height.
 
i can see what kouki monster was saying, although i don't completely agree. for someone like me, that has specific requirments for suspension, ar and other bags systems can come up short. to someone who is looking for what those types of setups offer then they're a perfect fit.
 
regarding "hype", what i see often is someone will ask for recommendations on suspension. everyone is quick to chime in with their personal choice but rarely are the inquirer's goals addressed (even by themselves a lot of the time). air runner often gets portrayed as the absolute best, with "pay to play" serving as all justification needed. the price tag seems to attract at least as many people as it steers away. if ar was priced reasonably (more in line with what you actually receive) it would be a much longer conversation.

So what would you guys like to see in a air bag kit?
for around the same price as air runner if not cheaper?
 
brand wise? 
set up? ( oem style?) 
better lines? 
compressors?
valves?
lines?

Glad to see this is getting alittle more on topic with a little swagger .

So far to summarize .
Every would agree air runner 
[B]drives nice[/B] in comparison to other kits ( still very vague as to what is meant by driving nice ( also it has to be the same car model and equipment to at least be comparable ) .

Is made to be driveway /installer friendly  (sort of) .

It is also geared to the novice air suspension person as it makes it simple but again basic.

Its price point for the average joe is quite high for what you get .(not the guys here who got hook ups especially the made 2600 hook up) 

It is off the shelf KYB shocks and Firestone bags which have the numbers on them to be ordered direct from Firestone distributors .

The fittings are 3rd grade and to some the value of braided lines for any moving line is questionable .

If it included better parts for the selling price it would be a much better  "value" .
If they lowered the price to the 2000-3000 max with the basics it would be a better value.
So far the perceived value is from reputation that dictates or justifies its higher price.

Funny enough this reminds me of a Corvette , it has some amazing parts but the fit and finish to make it a perfect daily tourer are not there. Don;t get me wrong I would love to have a vette especially like Steffwilli at D2 autosports but not for my daily.

Jeebus LMAO , you still bent because you got called out on selling your waffe's 2 years ago . Look man you really need to get over this and move on. You have a nice car and all but you were brand new to the boards trying to selling some wheels for way more than you paid that was already posted on the internet. This is a forum community , as such I think of it as a small club of associates . Your the new guy so i would do it again and again to let the others who have been around way before you know whats up . If you had only been honest and answered the question simply or posted it as facts in the original post of where and why it would have been easy. 
Anyway good luck , but move on from trying to insult me . Your only making yourself look bad when you don't even know how deep my pockets are (especially since I don't live at home with my parents ). Shit you bought your car when it was cheap , i got mine when you still had to have Grey hair to own it. LMAO , come on kid. 

Some mentioned again why this post ,so here goes.
It is to get a consensus on ideas as a forum or community. You have to think of the bigger picture.
You think air runner and other large VIP vendors don't go to the boards or Google their names as well as competitors ? Got a news flash for you then , most large companies have atleast one web based employee who surfs trolls and advertises as well as data collection.

I am not hating on air-runner only its price point and parts used/sold with it . It is nice but you can build it better for half  . If no one here posts that up as well as other options then what is the use of knowledge  if not shared ?
Almost everyone on this forum wants air suspension so it is a large amount of money to be made by companies who are interested . Other than the diehards who believe it cheat because they like to live on the edge and cheap death with every manhole. I give them props for having steel nuts as I like my car too much . Although even with my air I have dented and scored off my drain plug from it being real low.

I would love to see a hydraulic build and option thread to disperse rumors and half truths from everyone including myself about what components to use and how to use them .
So if someone here with a benz or anyone else can make a thread and take us to school and preach on hydro I am in the first pew.

Also what is this Juice thing you guys are laughing at ?

Juice= hydro's.  I agree, if airrunner were to check out this thread, they would know they can make changes to be possibly one of the best and most sold units.

Either way, lets keep this topic civil and no more name calling please.  Take that nonsense off my forum.  

If you guys want to bash someone bash on me.  I am the one who doesn't want to deal with creating a custom kit.  Yea, I KNOW I can get something better / cheaper than what I am piecing together with Air Runner, however I won't.  I don't want to deal with trying to be outside of the box anymore.  I did that and it bit me so hard that I wanted to drive my car off a cliff at one point.  I want to enjoy "driving" my car again.  I have chosen to pay a higher price for the fact that I can get a kit put together that didn't need all the "custom engineering" needed.  I don't drive my car slammed for I live in a city that has terrible roads.  I lived in the Suburbs of the San Francisco Bay Area, then no problem.  The roads here in the city suck.  Besides, I dare anyone with a STOCK suspension to try to get up my driveway without scraping the living hell out of their car.  Air is a must not because I'm trying to "be cool or fit in" but merely, I like NOT having my front bumper / undercarriage rip off everytime I take my car out of my garage.

sidenote, I did think about getting on the "juice" at one point.  I still think about it from time to time.  Who knows, that may come down in the future.

:biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=chancellor842;330985]
[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/2evpvsk.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/243jh1l.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/huj1uv.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/2d26kwk.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/2uxtr0n.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/14xdvt3.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/2zoj4pc.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

poor girl lost her contact on the floor

[img]http://i50.tinypic.com/huj1uv.jpg[/img]

If you guys would like an official "juice" thread, then I would be more than happy to answer and address everyone's questions, myths, and queries.

Alright all i gotta say is that...

IF YOU LIKE AIRRUNNER THEN THAT'S YOU, Continue to rep, use/modify, & love it :biggthumpup:
IF YOU DONT LIKE AIRRUNER...Then don't use it.

Some people like apples, some like oranges.

I wrote out a lot, just to edit it all down to this: Generic bolt on kits are for peeps who dont want to get into making their suspension unique to the car. glad to see some are knowledgeable about there suspension system.. but honestly.. its for those that dont. and you coming as a mini trucker.. should know. Why buy a generic 4link when a custom one no one has, and its fitted to the truck? 

If you want a generic kit, i am sure people can put one together better than this. Especially if nothing really is replaceable as mentioned earlier. But my car isnt like any of your guy's cars, so what do i know?

The only thing positive about air runner to me is the fact you can bolt on the actual suspension portion.      Everything else is custom.   not everyone is going to run the lines the same exact way or the tank/compressor placement.   But the shock/bag portion will all be the same since it's a "bolt on".   I also think it's over priced but that is a big selling point.  Some will value it more than others.

editing since my post was irrelevant to the topic.

OP:
[IMG]http://videogum.com/img/thumbnails/photos/you_mad.jpg[/IMG]


Still have to say UAS was well worth the purchase, quality up to par with AR and several hundreds cheaper. No issues in almost 3 years of having it on the car and it gets driven pretty hard. Even spent a few minutes doing donuts at the beach this morning lol.  Time to go wash off the sand now:innoutrofl2:

I feel a lock down coming soon.

the compressor, switches, relay, gauges yes is all off the shelves stuff that don't worth much...try ask them how much would it be to buy just 4 struts...they will tell you it is the same amount.

the money you spent is the r&d they spent alot of time on...so you don't have to. i know airrunner sometimes don't use a off the shelf kyb shock on their set up. they use different shock from a different application to make their kits work from calculating full slam, full up and drive height etc.

don't like manual valves...no problem get their upgrade from dakota or accuair..they use manual valves on their kit to make it a little bit more affordable...other wise it will be up there like bold world pricing wise.

some of you if you have the knowledge, time and $ to make a custom kit for yourself more power to you. also not every town there is a badass custom air bag shop thus some people would like something reliable that they can use daily and install in their own garage. some people also don't have the time, it would be cheaper for some to get AR then to get something custom and take a full month off without pay.

i have a customer who got a 2nd gen LS AR from me and love the set up. he got a second car a 1st gen GS this time he like save $ because the car doesn't worth as much as the LS. after all said and done he is having problems with the set up and also how rough it rides told me he wish he didn't go chang this time. he didn't like it at the end he dump that car for cheap.

we don't need say stuff like who own their house here and who is with their parents...i am with my parents because i love them and not because i can't afford to move out lol.

^ with him. Living with parents is the new thing now. More and more people are doing it, Hawaii its common, as well as Europe. And the way things are now.. its going to get more so. 
It's not living with parents, its living together. 

I like the concept of the Runner kit, but not a fan of its kit. I put a thread a while back about would you buy if "I did this" This is one of those kits, had I put it together to sell.. I would be surprised if anyone did buy it and I would be getting the flack of using cheap parts. But since jdm is "god" or something (laughs) Some how is over looked, cause they have cheap stuff too. If I were to put that kit together.. I wouldn't dare try using "off" the shelf parts. I would use nicer off the shelf parts.

[QUOTE=jeebus;331047]
[youtube]OFs5l9K--7M[/youtube][/QUOTE]

Is this really necessary?

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;331041]I wrote out a lot, just to edit it all down to this: Generic bolt on kits are for peeps who dont want to get into making their suspension unique to the car. glad to see some are knowledgeable about there suspension system.. but honestly.. its for those that dont. and you coming as a mini trucker.. should know. Why buy a generic 4link when a custom one no one has, and its fitted to the truck? 
[/QUOTE]

There's hundreds of ways to do a four link, 2 link, 3 link, etc... and get "custom".  How many ways is there to mount a bag on a strut to not be "generic" ? Really?:smiley-rofl:

I mean, if its just to say "I have a custom kit" then cool...I'm definitely down with that, but to call Airrunner kits generic?  Its car/model specific...how can it be generic?  :pat:

Rev-01 hit the nail on the head.  Its about the time airrunner took to measure out the suspension travel as well, which strut from which application will work the best, etc...  

Jeebus...bro, this aint Houston-imports :innoutrofl2:

I agree with Samson, people opt for AR because it is an easy kit to install and is reliable. The ride feels close to stock. I know people that daily drive their cars on AR and have no problems. 
 
It would be nice if pricing was a little bit cheaper, but trying asking about bold world air suspensions and see what you think of the price.

editing since my post was irrelevant to the topic

I have had my Air Runner setup for over 4-5 years on the Previa. The fronts are bolt-on and the rears require minor welding but I am way more than happy with it. As for the lines, I haven't had any problems with it getting pinched or what not. Tell me of a kit that you can practically just put on versus assembling all the necessary parts to it. Yeah it doesn't have a water trap or a check valve. Just go buy one. =p And for the cheapies, the Decade series is a deal. I am a happy customer with Air Runner and I don't regret spending $3,700 on a soccer van haha.

So I am curious, do you have Air Runner currently on your LS?

[QUOTE=VIPStyleCars;331024]Either way, lets keep this topic civil and no more name calling please. Take that nonsense off my forum.[/QUOTE]
 
i can't tell if this is directed at me or not. i mean no harm and am not bashing anybody, but i really think people should understand their unique situation before making such an important decision.
 
here's a scenario:
 
john and jane doe both have f50s and $5k to spend on an air bag suspension. they are both trying to decide between ar and uas.
 
mr. doe asks for advice and everyone tells him ar is the premier kit and more reliable than anything else. it is mentioned that uas has had clearance issues in the past (no one takes the time to explain the completely different suspension design) and he doesn't want that. he forks out 5k and receives a single compressor, manual valves, a sleeved font strut assembly, rear shocks, a pair of firestone bags, and everything required for installation. the install goes well. he figures out what psi he is comfortable at, aligns everything, and all is good. he enjoys his "premier" setup.
 
jane is a smart female. she understands her car and does independent research. mrs. doe decides to wait and see how john's ar turns out before making a decision. when she sees her husbands ar kit come in she notices that everything is very basic with the only notable item being the front struts. she watches him install it and sees nowhere that the front could rub, short of improperly sized wheels. she has seen the same rear airbags, and better, for sale at <$100 a piece.
 
she goes on a test drive with john and notes that the ride quality is comfortable at ride height. everything is dialed in and it's nice. unfortunately, the ride height is higher than she would like at a comfortable psi. she also notices that at low psi suspension travel is limited and the struts are bottoming out.
 
after considering her options for a couple days, jane decides she can one up john with a little thought. she orders some high quality coilovers and a uas kit. she receives the coilovers as well as dual viar compressors, 8 electric valves, a pair of uas aero strut bags, a pair of slam specialties rear bags, and all required installation parts. john is a little tight at this point. the install is slightly more complicated (which her husband is quick to point out) because of the additional wiring and the assembly of the front struts. no biggie though, jane can handle it. 
 
wifey spends a couple of days dialing everything in. she notices that her setup rides stiffer at the same psi. she attributes this to the design of the parts since her stuff was engineered for lowered applications vs. being adapted oem spec parts. once she figures out what psi she's comfortable at she cranks the damper into the spindle to get her ride height where she wants it without compromising suspension travel. she uses her much wider range of damping adjustment to fine tune her ride quality, then everything is aligned and ready to go.
 
when it's all said and done, she invites john for a test drive. hubby instantly notices the difference in ride height when he sees the twin q's parked side by side. when the drive starts he notices that the ride is not quite as plush as his air runner equipped platform, however it is still comfortable and well controlled. john also notices that the car's suspension is working properly at a height he has travel and geometry issues at.
 
in the end they both have quality installs with no issues. john wishes he could drive as low as jane and jane wishes her ride was a little more luxurious (even at the expense of a little ride height). they trade cars and everyone is happy.
 
the end.
 
cliffs:
[LIST]
[*]understand how suspension functions.
[*]understand the unique aspects of different suspension designs.
[*]understand the components used in different aftermarket options.
[*]understand the trade off between ride height and "comfort".
[*]identify your personal needs and assess the best option for you accordingly.
[/LIST]

This thread is about air runners short comings , not anyone's.:ughgtfo:

[URL="http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/member.php?u=1"][COLOR=#c30000][B]VIPStyleCars[/B][/COLOR][/URL] "sidenote , I did think about getting on the  "juice" at one point.  I still think about it from time to time.  Who  knows, that may come down in the future.                                                                                                "
I think this is also where I am at but the mystery of hydro is . What is stopping me as I only know old school lowrider guys who are not perfectionists to get it right to learn from.:pat:

[URL="http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/member.php?u=6110"]BLKonBLK98[/URL] that is a great story .
It makes perfect sense and lets everyone understand some of the options hypothetically.:tmyksg8:

[URL="http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/member.php?u=2656"][B]OCKlasse[/B][/URL] I think everyone if not just myself wants a "juice" thread. As I think it is only a matter of time until luxury style hydro takes a big place in the market . If you could list the major components needed and options it would be a great start. Air suspension can never drive more precise (sporty) than a hydraulic system by virtue of airs limited physical properties . Notice I did not say it was better as that is an individual characteristic . :bigok:

[URL="http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/member.php?u=56"]REV-01[/URL]  agreed smaller towns/cities have little if any options and for easy bolt ons this works.:redxhitrf7:

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;331058]i can't tell if this is directed at me or not. i mean no harm and am not bashing anybody, but i really think people should understand their unique situation before making such an important[/QUOTE]

Nah, wasn't towards anyone in particular. I just want this thread to be full of healthy conversation, opinions, thoughts, and constructive criticism. If My rants were off topic, I do apologize to everyone.

I just want our community to be open to everyones opinion here when discussed respectfully and with facts to back it up. I deal with enough "fanboy-ism" on a daily basis with my day job, I'd rather that type of nonsense stays out of VSC.  We all have our loyalties and opinions, i just hope everyone can respect that.

I completely forgot to address this issue .
I apologize  to anyone else who may have felt my living at home  statement was directed to them.
I advise many to stay at home atleast until they have %50 down before  moving out if it is feasible. What I poorly worded was that if you don't  have other tangible assets and just pump money in your car then you  have no footing to say anything about anyone else. Just like the analogy  of "you shouldn't throw stone if you live in a glass house" .


[QUOTE=VIPStyleCars;331079]

I just want our community to be open to [SIZE=4]everyones opinion[/SIZE] here when discussed [SIZE=4]respectfully[/SIZE] and with [SIZE=4]facts[/SIZE] to back it up. 

 We all have our loyalties and opinions, i just hope everyone can respect that.[/QUOTE]


 ^ I definatly agree with this

I love the way Jane is "smart" because she didn't buy the ar kit and because John bought a bolt on kit he's not?  this guy....

BoB as well as a few other members nailed it on the head a few times and drilled it no homo

The way I look at it and offer it to people, if you don't have an installer locally, want a plusher ride and want to save time, AR is the way to go.  The money you would of spent on the UAS + install almost offsets the cost of UAS w/install vs. AR w/install.  But like mentioned, everyone has different needs and wants.

Some people want a bolt on kit that they dont have to worry about.  Nothing wrong with that.  They are willing to pay so let them pay.  This is business and AR is doing a good job at it..  Yes there are other options and the option of putting together your own kit for cheaper.  Time is money, some don't have time and don't want to deal with the issues.  Its not like AR is the only option or even the most popular, do what you want to do

[QUOTE=speedaddict;331083]I love the way Jane is "smart" because she didn't buy the ar kit and because John bought a bolt on kit he's not? this guy....[/QUOTE]
 
i made a concious effort to unbias the hypothetical as much as possible, but some things may have slipped through the cracks or been mis worded.
 
what made jane smart is that she had an understanding of her application and researched her options vs. john who went blindly off the recommendation of others. that's as much as that part of the story was intended to imply. just for the record, one person being smart does not mean the other isn't. in the end they were both wrong because they did not pick the setup that was right for them. that was the whole point of the trade at the end.
 
i consider just about every common option (ar, uas, cups, coils, etc.) "bolt-in" and i'm not one to give cool points strictly on the virtue of being "custom". a well built, full featured, "bolt-in" system is as good as it gets in my eyes.
 
if it seems like i am attacking air runner, then my apologies. i have considered buying it myself several times. in the end it's just not as good of a design at the most basic level, [I]for what i need[/I], as other options. being human, i tend to judge things by my standards; just as you feel the need to defend your choice despite the fact that i have made every effort to make the point that there is no single best solution.
 
air runner will always have a trade off between ride height:psi and will always lose suspension travel as ride height decreases (non-otg). i have no issue with the price tag (although i recognize it is inflated) or it's "bolt-in" status but there are things you just can't get around.
 
my school of thought is to set up the suspension properly at the lowest height. i am willing to bet money (literally) that no one here has set up their geometry at full dump because the design does not promote drivability in this state. i would rather my suspension be engineered for the 59 miuntes i drive down the freeway pounded, not the 60 seconds i need to raise it up for speed bumps or entries/exits when i get where i'm going. in fact, right now i don't feel the need to raise it up at all; which is why i don't have air.

I was joking:smiley-rofl:

:slap:

I may be inexperienced with airbags, but if i'm reading correctly, does the AirRunner struts use standard air line and fittings all the way to the bag? If so i am surprised they managed to get DOT approval, since i'm pretty sure (through my own research) that applications requiring an articulated movement should be DOT62543 

Doesnt need to be braided, but the fittings and line is different, and should have a swivel fitting (AFAIK PTC isnt legal on moving struts?).
 
Does AirRunner have that? If not its a pretty basic oversight. While many might not have issues with it, if they are in an accident and it gets investigated, wouldnt that be grounds for getting sued? (I dont know, i get the impression Americans can sue each other for anything).
 
And its not like they are expensive... theres a seller on Ebay that has DOT certified air brake leader hoses for $8-10 each... Add a few more $$ for bulkhead fittings and they could put those in the kit for less than $50 extra
 
 
Like i said though, i am not an expert on this; but i can see where the OP was coming from; why are they including inferior fittings with their kits?

If you have a Y34, F50 [I]FORGET [/I]all the other options(MY opinion) if you are on a Budget buy Lowering springs Not air runner, if you would like to buy this product i suggest that you find some ways of getting it well less than MSRP like i did with the group sale like i did .I went even further upgraded a few things making my airrnner system better than out the box bolt on and more practical soo money was never an option on my build .
 
Upgraded to Braided air lines :biggthumpup:
Changed >>upgraded the compressor :biggthumpup:
Parted with all the airrunner lines and added and upgraded to a larger line size :runcoold:
Added a prcatical air management system that works and has a proven record
 
For $5k i would like to se the below option on a kit EG > Y34 & F 50 kit 
 
Full kit as normal from air runner , braided lines and 2 >380- compressors some sorts of air managment system . :pat:keep dreaming ppl its not going to happen 
 
I would like to further add that my entire kit is still well below the 5 k and i have what i want VS what was supplied .
 
Personally i dont think its worth the MSRP for any other cars BESIDES THE F 50 and Y 34 at the end of the day i have done my home work and made my choice with zero regrets ... that is my 2 cents

searching AR i got 
[img]http://superbuytires.com/Airpics/Civic95b.JPG[/img]

posting pics of my favorite car...Love it Kouki Monster...

Man those were the days weren't they? oh err...I mean...RICE!!

hahaha dude no joke. I kinda want the whole touring car thing to come back. I miss my 95 accord with side markers and piaa fog lights and window banner. and my advan tc knock offs the Axis Touring cups haha

[QUOTE=kingpin;331110]If you have a Y34, F50 [I]FORGET [/I]all the other options(MY opinion) if you are on a Budget buy Lowering springs Not air runner, if you would like to buy this product i suggest that you find some ways of getting it well less than MSRP like i did with the group sale like i did .I went even further upgraded a few things making my airrnner system better than out the box bolt on and more practical soo money was never an option on my build .[/QUOTE]
 
/thread
 
the guy who had his air runner installed last week has spoken. :pat:
 
but seriously, thanks for demonstrating what a biased and unfounded review looks like. care to support your enthusiastic endorsment with anything resembling a fact?
 
why is it the best option for the y34 in particular? is it because of the lack of a front upper control arm, or anything that would cause a clearance issue, that makes the sleeved front necessary or even marginally better than anything else?
 
is it the rear's seperate spring and strut design? maybe it's the off the shelf kyb super specials that are oem length and valved a maximum of 150% more aggressive in relation to the japanese cedric/gloria that comes with a 6 cylinder rb or vq. perhaps it's those everyday firestone bags that replace the rear springs.
 
since air runner is not total length adjustable psi must be lowered in order to lower the ride height. i wish i could go more into spring rate; unfortunately there is no conversion from psi to kg/mm since they are different types of measurment, but it is a given that low psi is equal to a low spring rate. low psi also means shortened suspension travel. did this become ideal while i wasn't looking?
 
or is it the price you paid and all the extra parts you had to add to get in on par with everything else? inquiring minds want to know.

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;331129]/thread
 
the guy who had his air runner installed last week has spoken. :pat:
 
but seriously, thanks for demonstrating what a biased and unfounded review looks like. care to support your enthusiastic endorsment with anything resembling a fact?
 
why is it the best option for the y34 in particular? is it because of the lack of a front upper control arm, or anything that would cause a clearance issue, that makes the sleeved front necessary or even marginally better than anything else?
 
is it the rear's seperate spring and strut design? maybe it's the off the shelf kyb super specials that are oem length and valved a maximum of 150% more aggressive in relation to the japanese cedric/gloria that comes with a 6 cylinder rb or vq. perhaps it's those everyday firestone bags that replace the rear springs.
 
since air runner is not total length adjustable psi must be lowered in order to lower the ride height. i wish i could go more into spring rate; unfortunately there is no conversion from psi to kg/mm since they are different types of measurment, but it is a given that low psi is equal to a low spring rate. low psi also means shortened suspension travel. did this become ideal while i wasn't looking?
 
or is it the price you paid and all the extra parts you had to add to get in on par with everything else? inquiring minds want to know.[/QUOTE]  I get your point but (new)JIC and  New UAS and air managment  will run you over 5 k no matter what route you take + an additional $$ for assembley .
 
Please take in to consideration that i am speaking from what i have found doing  my home work  and if any one can find me > NEW JIC+bags+air man+ 8 gal tank+480 and hard lines to for a Y34 for under $5k please make me 3 kits as i am sure other members will love to purchase  a kit like that .
 
I have air runner and i am out to find other options .. its not the case that i am no happy but its simply to help new members on what path they should take ..:shrug: at the end of the day put what you what on you car but know the facts ...

so your recommendation is based on cost? had you put the effort into getting something else at the discount you got for ar you would have paid about the same.
 
apples to apples, msrp on airunner (without options) and msrp on quality coilovers + uas is within a couple hundred dollars of each other depending on application.
 
if you like it i love it, but let's stick to the facts rather than pushing opinions.

great thread .. read the whole damn thing .. always wanted air runner and still do .. now i know i need to upgrade some items in the kit .. but first must save since the kit is so damn exspensive (like mentioned 1000 times)

but out of the whole thread

favorite post

[QUOTE=speedaddict;331116]posting pics of my favorite car...Love it Kouki Monster...

Man those were the days weren't they? oh err...I mean...RICE!![/QUOTE]

The key is have a reliable,adjustable and affordable system for the rest of the community ... .. let see what we can find ?

I think for most reliable would be coilovers. then if you want to adjust height on the fly, get a cup kit. But as of right now, I am coming up with my own set of Coilover suspension. I contemplated the bag set ect. but since I like driving the car a lot and go long distance with it.. I dont want to risk it, regardless of how Reputable it is or what parts were used. Unless you fab in your own air struts from a car which had them as oem units. And even then, those go out too. Regardless of how much money spent, it is near impossible to get it to ride perfect. To soft, or to harsh. I guess I just see air ride as a round town kinda thing. Even Agi can chime in on all the headaches he has had with his as well.

[QUOTE=kingpin;331170]so Tell us what will you do if you HAD a Y34 or F50 with 5k as a budget and let see what you will come up with ..
 
The key is have a reliable,adjustable and affordable system for the rest of the community to have an not face the BS that i did looking a asking millions of questions ..[/QUOTE]
 
i would spend it all on quality aggressive (drop, spring rate, valving) coilovers and multilink. air isn't a necessity for me. if adjustability is part of the criteria then scratch the multilink (for now) and add the following:

[LIST]
[*]cups (front only)
[*]smallest tank and compressor i could get away with
[*]single manual valve
[*]hardline underhood install
[/LIST]this is what i plan on running on the g50 as of right now and is the same i would run on anything else (unless i went juice). this will rely solely on the coilovers for suspension, air will only be used only for clearance. i don't see a need for rear adjustability since raising the front will give me everything i require. a small tank and compressor will be used because my air supply requirments will be low and space is more of a factor. i will be removing my abs unit (unrelated modification), putting the tank in it's place (.5-1 gallon probably), and finding a spot for the compressor somewhere in front of the firewall. a single compressor is fine in this installation because even in the event of a burnout i am only limited to my normal ride height. everything will be underhood and hardlined with the exception of the switch. i am choosing a manual valve because it eliminates an entire add on electrical system (k.i.s.s.) and any potential problems associated. the only possible exception is if i run it off my carpc which will require an electric valve, in which case a single 2 way gc valve will be used. a gauge is not necessary because it will be at 0 (driving) or 150 (obstacle) at all times. again, if i decide to run it off my computer a pressure sensor will be added and the psi displayed on screen (for no other reason than just to do it). all fine tuning will be done via coilover and multilink adjustment. precision is the name of the game. this setup is not for everybody but it does exactly what i want it to do exactly how i want it done. no more no less.
 
*edit - you edited but i'm more than happy to share anyway.

[QUOTE=Dominik;331109]I may be inexperienced with airbags, but if i'm reading correctly, does the AirRunner struts use standard air line and fittings all the way to the bag? If so i am surprised they managed to get DOT approval, since i'm pretty sure (through my own research) that applications requiring an articulated movement should be DOT62543 

Doesnt need to be braided, but the fittings and line is different, and should have a swivel fitting (AFAIK PTC isnt legal on moving struts?).
 
Does AirRunner have that? If not its a pretty basic oversight. While many might not have issues with it, if they are in an accident and it gets investigated, wouldnt that be grounds for getting sued? (I dont know, i get the impression Americans can sue each other for anything).
 
And its not like they are expensive... theres a seller on Ebay that has DOT certified air brake leader hoses for $8-10 each... Add a few more $$ for bulkhead fittings and they could put those in the kit for less than $50 extra
 
 
Like i said though, i am not an expert on this; but i can see where the OP was coming from; why are they including inferior fittings with their kits?[/QUOTE]


Good points Dominik , air runner is not DOT approved . It just uses DOT brakes air lines as do most all kits . From what i have seen as well it uses regular compression fittings not DOT legal fittings . Got to agree with you on them not having it already included . I can't comment on the law regarding it as I am not versed in transportation legalities. I do know that DOT line is not meant for any movement . DOT can take some fine with no issues but it is not its purpose . Its purpose is to transfer air to different areas of the vehicle where it hands it off to brakes , suspension , tanks or a flexible line if not in a permanently fixed position . Any area where it has to flex needs to be either flexible reinforced rubber line ( like a normal brake line) or stainless steel reinforced line.

Here is something to note , this thread has gotten a bit of attention . Thu it has gotten some great debates from both its pros and cons. Now that almost anyone interested in air runner will have read this thread they will know that as good as it is it can be much better . Before it was a very vague appearance of air runner is the shyt no matter what . No when a consumer contacts them to purchase the product they will start asking retailers those questions who will in turn ask AR directly if they have not read this tread. So again it brings it back to everyone having more knowledge on what they are doing buying and driving . 
The smarter or more conscious our community is the more we all gain from it . As  the cloud of the unknown mysteries disappears and knowledge shines through .
Air runner does a good job and a nicely made no thinking kit but again not for the price point . To me they should be doing much better to keep being at the top of their game . Its not like AR just started last year , they know what it needs to get better than to keep offering air suspension 101 parts to grad students.

What separates a good and a bad install ? To me a few things.
Get the car corner balanced . To most this is ridiculous if any know what it means. It is more important than height difference for a well handling car especially with air suspenion . With it being so variable in dynamics of suspension travel having scales put on all 4 corners will make a marked improvment if you can find them as usually only expert alignment places and race teams have them. This is one place that using a thread shock with an airbag is great .

Get a proper alignment after and find out what height pressures you have to be at for perfect wheel alignment . You never know when you get stuck in heavy rain or snow , well it might be just me.

You have no leaks . If you get air suspension installed by anyone do not leave the shop until you can raise the car to its max height and not loose 1 pound of air after 10 minutes . If you can't it has a loose connection or a bad one .
Also keep a soap and water spray bottle at all times in case you need to find a leak . As well as extra tubing a cutter and quick connect splice fitting (to be replaced not kept) .

UAS is a whole other topic , it is even more overprice than air runner , but better left for another thread . Just the word universal sends shivers down my spine.

I think everyone chimed in because you put a fat dumbs down icon next to the subject heading and it kind of confused people as to whether you were really knocking on it or not.  I noticed that you left this on clublexus as well.  Anyhow, I hope you did find what it was you were looking for and that you let us know how your build goes.  this thread has gone a bit out of control and I feel for a lot of the guys out there no homo.  

Those that did go through the trouble of putting together their own system would feel very obliged to at least have a chance to defend and share their experiences and those who went through the AR route will do the same thing as well, defend their choice in spending a hefty chunk of money in a calculated manner knowing what they were getting into..

I did a lot of research before going with a specific air suspension system. I weighed my options and did a cost analysis to compare them. I needed it to be dependable for my everyday use of the car through one of the mo[COLOR=white]st [/COLOR]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Treacherous roads in the nation. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
 
I thought about UAS over an adjustable coilover that is both height and dampening adjustable. Where I ran into issues was that the UAS bags were to big in diameter to clear my upper control arms openings and chasis. I would have had to get my chasis modified and get custom upper control arms made. I could not find a reputable company that would fabricate an upper control arm to the design specification and precision that I was comfortable with. When I did find one they wanted an arm and a leg to do the required design, R&D and fabrication.   
 
Then I thought about AR which was basically plug and play, but with the limited accessories. Then factored in upgrading the components I wasn't happy about (compressors, fittings, lines and air management).  
 
Like it's been mentioned time and time again... Air compresses with minimal effort. I wanted to get full service life of my tires. I went with a air management system that was both pressure and height based. Why? because if you get an alignment (hopefully with you in the car and a certain amount of gas in your tank) and you dial in your height based on pressure alone and at a certain ambient temperature and humidity, it's good only for that instance. Once any of those parameters change, your alignment will be off  because the pressure would not be the same for that height if you have more gas in your tank, add passengers, ambient temperature changes, luggage in your trunk, etc.  With the addition of height sensors in each wheel well you can precisely (within the margin of error) get the height you set your alignment to no matter how the parameters change. So far, I've gotten 15,000 miles out of my tires and my thread wear is not abnormal.  
 
I've had my issues with AR, but the company (in my opinion) backs up there product 100%. I had a seal in one of shocks fail and they repaired it at no charge and my 1 year warranty was over. Got me on the road again within a couple of weeks (shock spent 11 days in shipping transit back and forth, I hate UPS). 
 
At the end of the day... different strokes for different folks...

the reason why i havent upgraded much on my kit is that i dont want any more places the system can go wrong.  i thought about remote, height sensors, and all of the electric stuff.  but IMO it just adds more places for malfunctions.  manual valves are fine and i rarely hit my switches anyway. i ride pretty slammed and my struts r set in the 2 position. rides damn good. gonna switch the fronts to 3 pretty soon though cuz i been driving more freeway. and id stay away from remotes until the have digital spread spectrums to avoid interference.

BLKonBLK: the only reason id cup the rear is to avoid high centering

[QUOTE=vip tint+glass;331468]BLKonBLK: the only reason id cup the rear is to avoid high centering[/QUOTE]
 
word. it's not an issue for me at my height without air so it won't be a consideration when i add it.

[QUOTE=rodneyc77;331465]
 
I've had my issues with AR, but the company (in my opinion) backs up there product 100%. I had a seal in one of shocks fail and they repaired it at no charge and my 1 year warranty was over. Got me on the road again within a couple of weeks (shock spent 11 days in shipping transit back and forth, I hate UPS). 
 
At the end of the day... different strokes for different folks...[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that info !
That is absolutely golden to know that they are ready to help and get you going on the road again with minimal put of pocket expenses after the initial hit even if it was a year after .

[QUOTE=dirtygs;331458]I think everyone chimed in because you put a fat dumbs down icon next to the subject heading and it kind of confused people as to whether you were really knocking on it or not.  I noticed that you left this on clublexus as well.  Anyhow, I hope you did find what it was you were looking for and that you let us know how your build goes.  this thread has gone a bit out of control and I feel for a lot of the guys out there no homo.  

Those that did go through the trouble of putting together their own system would feel very obliged to at least have a chance to defend and share their experiences and those who went through the AR route will do the same thing as well, defend their choice in spending a hefty chunk of money in a calculated manner knowing what they were getting into..[/QUOTE]

I 100% agree with you . I wanted to stir some responses with good and bad ideas. I don't claim to know everything and want to know more than I already do . This forum as well as other s if filled with tons of really smart cats but they (some) are modest enough to not going around telling everyone everything without being asked.
This kind of calls out knowledge , facts and alot of opinions.

No one loses when they step back and look at this thread in its entirety . It is like a air runner buyer guide not a do not buy air runner.
I would have probably not read it clearly and acted emotionally instead of factual if someone was making it sound like the same system I spent tons of cash on sucks.
Its still overpriced to me . :innoutrofl2:

BTW It is 2 feet of SS braided or reinforced line for any moving pneumatic line. So saying air runner or any other air suspension using DOT line from valve to bag is not the right way , the safe way or the reliable way is an understatement.
It can be done but doesn't mean you should.

i think (my opinion) air runner is expensive because of
 
1. their product is not 100% factory made in Japan, so they pay like firestone kyb shipped the rubber and shock or other parts to them, so they pay the customs fee for all the parts coming to Japan.
2. they assemble all the parts by Japanese person which labour cost in japan is high than any other country.


my conclusion, because it is from Japan.
they buy all the parts from other country mybe CONUS or from other factory, they shipped it to Japan paying Japanese tax and etc, they build the airsuspension total cost + their profit, and shipped it again to CONUS or any other country

nothing in japan consider cheap, even if you buy a electronic device in Japan and in other asia Country, Japan is the most expensive one eventhought you got the same made in china sony same model same world wide warranty, same goes to other product like branded leather bag from paris same model same color same store, you will get charge more in Japan, because of the tax i think.

only my opinion.

Ok lets do it this way.  To pin point each part lets start off with the shocks.  All shocks can look the same and all coilovers look the same.   Why is there a difference in price?

Here is an example:  Tein Basics compaired to Tein Flex?

I dont care if Tein isnt good blah blah blah its just an example.  Lets get facts on why things look the same but cost different.  Then we can move on to the next thing.

PS.  I know AR isnt cheap and yes it cost alot but doesnt mean that they have a cheap product because of some of the little stuff they do use to cut cost.

thanks,
Freddie

personally, life is based upon the choices we make! i just spent a year away from home in afghanistan because i chose to! i also just ordered an AIR RUNNER kit just because i COULD afford it! all that matters is what YOU decide is better for YOU!

my .02 is that this thread is pointless!

this debate has gotten more hits than Bp oil leak .. .. great stuff =)

[QUOTE=kingpin;338763]this debate has gotten more hits than Bp oil leak .. .. great stuff =)[/QUOTE]

We're not exactly a ''go green'' forum. =]

Lots of good info in here, though most are opinions, still appreciated.

I still think it would be to everyone's benefit to have a thread dedicated to air systems where everybody can share what they have, be it custom or off the shelf, and the pros and cons.

i've been thinking on buying air runner kit but still not 100% sure.

the reason i'm planning on buying air runner is because , air runner still have high value even though it's a second hand used Air suspension kit, and a lot of people still want it even though it's second hand and used. (in my country) i don't know with other country.

i haven't decided to pull the trigger but this reason got me thinking, 
if i bought a customs air suspension kit U$2+++ or hydrolics, they are cheaper and i think it will be more high tech than AirRunner, but will they still have value if it used?? mybe yes but not as high as Airunner kit.

people know AirRunner even a noob they heard about airrunner, it's a well know kit.
and they want it. from what i know people who bought Air Runner they don't want to know about other kit, they already think that what they use is the best because they don't get any trouble from it, they satisfy with it.

even though for a people that know about Air Suspension see that as a crap.
the quality is not as good as the price and bla bla bla

but still it's a good crap, all i heard is positive feedback from airRunner user. only nagative feedback on the price, and they have good customer service, is that right?


i think this reason got me thinking on buying it. but right now still looking for MOST worth it product!!  haha

SK,

I understand your disappointment.  IMHO, people are looking at this the wrong way.  It's the way of business.  If you look around, people are out there to make money.  I doubt the majority of the vendors will give you the utmost quality, especially when we're talking about a kitted package.  They'll give you a quality standard according to them, but that's about it.  I mean, how many turbo kits out there for a couple grand will give you top of the line turbo and hardware?  some dude will figure out bunch of people want air suspension, so they'll kit something for you to make money.  Obviously, everyone will claim their kits are the best or industry leading.

Plain and simple, if you know what you're doing, then make your own kit.  Besides paying for the cheap parts, you're also paying for other people's labor and the time spent on kitting the package for you and to ship it to your door.  Hell, look at the whole world.  Everything's made in china!

However, it's good to know your opinion and to confirm their stuff is crap.  I've personally never bought any air suspension kits, but when I do, I may buy a cheap kit and replace as needed.  Or better yet, if you could take pictures and give a break down of what was in your kit and provide what's a better solution from your experinece, then we can all make better choices in the future...:biggthumpup:


Thanks in advance!

Air Runner isnt cheap and there's a reason.  With Air Runner you get what you pay for.  Quality that lasts and is hassle free.  A few of my friends have had Air Runner for several years with no problems.  I myself don't have air yet but I'm saving up for Air Runner and should be getting it hopefully in December.  Probably going to get Acuair as well.  I'm not knocking other air setup's but Air Runner is a sure thing when it comes to quality and dependability.

[QUOTE=kpdoughboy;351283]Air Runner isnt cheap and there's a reason.  With Air Runner you get what you pay for.  Quality that lasts and is hassle free.  A few of my friends have had Air Runner for several years with no problems.  I myself don't have air yet but I'm saving up for Air Runner and should be getting it hopefully in December.  Probably going to get Acuair as well.  I'm not knocking other air setup's but Air Runner is a sure thing when it comes to quality and dependability.[/QUOTE]

not according to the original poster??  So is there a poll thread rating in quality for all the air choices out there?  Or should there be a poll thread for who prefers what?

[QUOTE=silguy;351467]not according to the original poster??  So is there a poll thread rating in quality for all the air choices out there?  Or should there be a poll thread for who prefers what?[/QUOTE]

original poster is not happy cuz the AR is expensive compared to other options for what it is. that being said, AR setups are very well put together, but i think most people with airrunner will agree, it'd be better if they just sold the strut/bag assembly separately rather than as a complete kit that's pretty much bare bones.

I still don't see what reason OP has that enables him to bash the company in the way that he does. He did this same thing on Club Lexus. I think he just copied his original post from there. He's actually the only person I've seen that has ever hated on Air Runner, like he actually owned it at one point.

holy shit this is still going on? Just buy my stuff if you want quality. Sadly I dont have any of it for sale I will just piece together a kit of which i think is superior and sell it you. hahaha which is what these companies do. not many make their own products in house for it is time and lots of money. Most of it will always be out sourced.

I sense a closing of thread soon lol

[QUOTE=Caoboy;351561]I still don't see what reason OP has that enables him to bash the company in the way that he does. He did this same thing on Club Lexus. I think he just copied his original post from there. He's actually the only person I've seen that has ever hated on Air Runner, like he actually owned it at one point.[/QUOTE]
 
Noone is bashing anyone.
I think the fact that a large portion of Airrunner owners don't use the valves, management, tank or complressors that come with the kit speaks volumes. Take from that what you will.
 
Is it really that unusual to post the same question on 2 completely separate & different forums? I don't think so. :dunno:

I've still got all the fittings, hoses, valve's etc..wrapped in original packaging.  I was doing my bbk install, my new sway bars and other braces and I laid on my back under the car admiring my installed airrunner parts (installed for a couple years now).  I have to chuckle at this post and the OP everytime I look at my kit.  I guess you can say I'm satisfied...but then again, I never paid the price they sell it for.

Shit I am still running all the parts that came in the kit. All fittings, gauges, electric valves, and all. And I also bought their remote kit. In the end, I love this kit and would definitely buy it again for another car. =p

Interesting thread. I can see allot of people on this site getting heated just on the topic bringing on doubt about AR alone. I had AirRunner on my last build. I loved it. It was my first Air Kit so I had nothing but reputation to go with. I paid $3,200 [COLOR=Lime][B]cash[/B][/COLOR] in person at AR's main office. It was a great experience and took pics with me a Shin =). Easy install. First week had an overly torqued part screw up the rear bag. Shin himself drove up in traffic to replace the part. No trouble since. Shit I even resold them for good money. If I could have used enough parts from my old car AR set up to my RX I would have done it. Of course the bags and shocks will be different but only the rears. Saved a bunch.

So my experience was great I think. However, on the other side of things I still think it's way overpriced. I was NEVER able to get as low as expected in the rears either. Kind of weird. Now that I am driving a Lexus price has gone up a bit, I don't mind paying more but I want a better value. For $4K before installation I will get the same One really small compressor, one really small tank and Manual switches and kind of cheap looking gauges. 

If I go with another system not only will I get two larger compressors but a much larger tank, a Japanese made digital air management system that adjusts for every passenger. On top of that I get an auto leveling function. push button 3 level settings. Slammed, drive and high? Not sure about everything. I get all of this for about the same price as a basic AR kit. 

If I want this on AR it will cost about $2,500 with installation over the 4K for the basic kit. That's $6,500 installed before tax. I say you have to start caring a bit about price at this point. Especially when I think about the WALD kit I wanna get and custom interior and so on. 

Anyways if one does not care about value and just about name well this discussion is kind of mute. I think everyone would like to know they are paying for the best quality not just the name. But how about all those Rolls Royce and Jaguar drives in the late 70's to 90's. Pieces of junk. But it was about owning the car not having quality or efficiency. They had mechanics and butlers take care of any problems. They would not even know about it.

I am definitely a bit conflicted at this point. $2,500 + saved is pretty great for other mods. Keep in mind I am not a technician or mechanic so there are many aspects of "parts" ind there quality I do not know for sure. but the AR kits just seems VERY basic and well is not pretty. However in the long run "IF" it's safer to get AR than lets say Universal. Well it's something to think about.

Im new to the scene. Came from a G35 coupe and am just starting to get my feet wet with my M45. Ive read all pages and appreciate the info. My future plans do include air suspension. I had no idea the AR kit needed to be tweaked. I thought it was the holy grail of air sus based on price alone. I assumed the kit parts were the best of the best. To me, the UAS kit looks like a mickeymouse kit. Ugh, this is aggrevating as I DO want a bolt on, reliable and comfortable kit as I daily my M. Im dis satisfied with afm selection. I just want a "one stop shop expirience. "

AR came with basic stuff, the strut and bag are excellent in my opinion.  I've got custom bags on my 39 chevy, my 01 silverado.  For the people that can machine parts and make their own setup, just do it...for the 2GS, I read about the rubbing bag issues with Universal because they want to ride low.  I don't have that issue with the AR.  If you're going to make your own kit, just measure measure measure....the guy that built my custom air setups for my 2 other cars just did a shockwave setup for LILS here on the boards.  He seems to love it.

the 39 chevy can rid this low but the front needs to be raised up to turn the wheel.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/speedaddict/chevy%20pics/miscpics261.jpg[/IMG]

the silverado was a complete frame off build.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/speedaddict/silverado/Picture182.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/speedaddict/silverado/IMG_7179.jpg[/IMG]

^^sounds like airrunner is what you want then

i still like my AR. got 2 cars on it. was gonna get a kit for a 3rd car when it was on special but i missed out on it

if only the small parts were better.  I can live with the manual valves but the compressor is too small....

I like my AR.. ar15.. haha ha.. okay

seems everyone is talking about the standard bare bones air runner kit.  so whats this TC5 that they offer?

its the upgraded electric monitoring system if i'm not mistaken.

It's their new automatic Dampening adjustment control system that features 6 programmable presets for dampening adjustment. 
 
John from VSC has it on his GS and Brokey was telling me that he rode in it and it's pretty damn smooth. They don't offer this for the Y33 but I'd stick w/ the OG series as it's more suited for driving at low or at any height

ahh was wondering if it was better for driving low and i think you answered my question :D

the TC5 is better for riding low, cuz you can stiffen it up

Another $2K + added to the $4K for the basic?

[QUOTE=vip tint+glass;353846]the TC5 is better for riding low, cuz you can stiffen it up[/QUOTE]
 
gotta acknowledge the difference between spring rate (psi) and damping. suspension is designed to absorb energy, damping to dissipate it. theoretically (no experience with tc-5) improvements when under inflated will be marginal.

Just to get an idea on the ride quality, the iPhone 4 was sitting on my door leaning against the window.  I was recording the ride heights as I drove by.  You can kind of see the quality on how stable this was... 

I'm not slammed in this video btw.

[YOUTUBE]T2wylRMyXkQ[/YOUTUBE]

I had to ride so high for any comfort I felt like I was driving an SUV with my AR kit. Any regular looking heights were killing my kidneys :) I am sure it's different with the larger heavier cars though and I had the basic kit.

[QUOTE=vip tint+glass;353846]the TC5 is better for riding low, cuz you can stiffen it up[/QUOTE]

I beg to differ on this.

get a cup kit.

[QUOTE=infini;353898]I had to ride so high for any comfort I felt like I was driving an SUV with my AR kit. Any regular looking heights were killing my kidneys :) I am sure it's different with the larger heavier cars though and I had the basic kit.[/QUOTE]

If I am not mistaken your application is bolt on front struts and just a bag in rear. If so, then it's understandable and it's definitely different as compared to one with a bolt on struts front/rear.

As for the TC5, I rode in John aka VIPStyleCars' GS and it's just as comfortable if not better than the Decade Series kit for my other buddy's2nd gen GS we did an install for.I prefer TC5 because of the extra dampening. In the end, Air Runner is worth it. If you can afford it buy it. If you can't too bad haha

All I can say is "Front dippin' " <-inside joke for those at VIP festival

[QUOTE=mdenoga;354269]If I am not mistaken your application is bolt on front struts and just a bag in rear. If so, then it's understandable and it's definitely different as compared to one with a bolt on struts front/rear.
 
As for the TC5, I rode in John aka VIPStyleCars' GS and it's just as comfortable if not better than the Decade Series kit for my other buddy's2nd gen GS we did an install for.I prefer TC5 because of the extra dampening. In the end, Air Runner is worth it. If you can afford it buy it. If you can't too bad haha
 
All I can say is "Front dippin' " <-inside joke for those at VIP festival[/QUOTE] >>  i have to agree with  ya here .. i am loving every minute of mines

[QUOTE=mdenoga;354269]If I am not mistaken your application is bolt on front struts and just a bag in rear. If so, then it's understandable and it's definitely different as compared to one with a bolt on struts front/rear.

As for the TC5, I rode in John aka VIPStyleCars' GS and it's just as comfortable if not better than the Decade Series kit for my other buddy's2nd gen GS we did an install for.I prefer TC5 because of the extra dampening. In the end, Air Runner is worth it. If you can afford it buy it. If you can't too bad haha

All I can say is "Front dippin' " <-inside joke for those at VIP festival[/QUOTE]


No it's bags in front and rear w/ independent control over each. I would not pay $3,200 for 2x bags. Maybe I am confusing what you mean and am missing something. Every "basic" kit seems to be the same accept for the weight the shocks/struts (what ever is req) and bags can handle for the specific car. Even so almost $7K for the RX330 full best package avail for my car?

straight up, the components to air runners are really basic...  However, I cannot live without my asco manifold and push to connect fittings.. made life so much easier and it is holding in strong!  Ive had air runners on for more than a year now with non air runner components and omg its amazing.. I saw how regular air runner folks would sit there for an eternity trying to raise or lower their cars with these things.. im straight..  and air runners ride just as well if not better than stock.. smooth as hell..  just my 2 cents..

fyi, push to connect fittings should be checked often, they can develop leaks quicker than regular fittings.

ive ben rollin on airrunner for 2 months now and i run it on my daily driver 3gs 100 miles a day man i love it. if you ride in my car and i did not tell you it was bagged you would never know. i have the basic kit im using all the air runner suff lines fittings ect. it works great! i am going to up grade and add the accuair e-level next week. i hope that works as well as the air runner. wish me luck:biggthumpup: AR FTW!!!