Oni-Camber.... Lets have a discussion. Yes?

Im just wondering what is everybodys opinion on this.
voice your opinions, but lets keep it civil. :rules:
I was doin a poll but I guess I took to long to make it oh well... 
anyways on to the topic.

It's ridiculous...  Especially dangerous driving with it.   Almost anywhere you go you'll have a 100% chance of getting rolled for a unsafe vehicle.

[IMG]http://www.7tune.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/DSC_1469.jpg[/IMG]

Cool for a trailer queen.

I love it personally but I'd like to see some more pictures of the suspension set ups. There seems to be lots of pictures of the cars themselves floating around but not lots of pics of the control arms, hubs, making tie rod ends work etc etc. 
 
I'd really like to see that part of it if anyone has pictures!

I have a uber-noob question........

How do they get their rear wheels like that?  I've searched on it many times but can't find any info.  

Modified LCA's or hubs?

seriously... how does it not touch the suspension unless super low offsets.   Also at that angle aren't the inner lip of the rim like mms away from touching the ground?

it looks pretty cool, but in reality, u cant daily that ish!
theres a point wen too much camber looks wack....

you will have to have a tire shop at both ends of you journey over 50 miles ... :pat:
 
its looks wacked ..

"who cares what it looks like as long as they're looking?"
 
everything is bad in excess.

My personal general rule of thumb for camber is that is cannot surpass the angle of the factory body line.  Once you get passed that.....something just looks broke lol!

I personaly think its cool, but I dont think I would roll like that, I got friends pullin camber, just not like that. Its funny to see peoples faces  and screaming at you tellin you, your axles are broke lol. 
 
 
[QUOTE=bWiLKINS;357220]I love it personally but I'd like to see some more pictures of the suspension set ups. [/QUOTE]
 
Only pictures I have and found: 
[URL]http://dirtypenguin.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/how-oni-is-done-right/[/URL]
 
And how the tires end up with that much camber:
[URL]http://dirtypenguin.wordpress.com/2010/11/25/riding-on-walls/[/URL]
 
 
Even lambos be doin Oni-camber:
[URL]http://dirtypenguin.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/more-oni/[/URL]
:pat:
lol

[QUOTE=mclarenf1kid;357287]My personal general rule of thumb for camber is that is cannot surpass the angle of the factory body line. Once you get passed that.....something just looks broke lol![/QUOTE] no wonder you are  in training ... MODs please extend his probation ... Back to 101 :smiley-rofl:

they need to send [I]you[/I] back
 
camber becomes noticably excessive when the angle breaks the slope of the 1/4 panel.
 
he's right, you're wrong... eh?

whachu talkin aboot?

[QUOTE=mclarenf1kid;357287]My personal general rule of thumb for camber is that is cannot surpass the angle of the factory body line.  Once you get passed that.....something just looks broke lol![/QUOTE]

agreed -- i think even my car is slightly excessive. i'd like to take it down a degree or two.

I may be a noob to the VIP scene, but I can tell you in detail why I feel a car looks good.

Point made:  S2000

[img]http://www.iputinwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/s2000green_04.jpg[/img]

Their rear quarter panels have a heavy slope, allowing for aggressive camber to be pulled off tastefully.

[img]http://www.rimtuck.com/photos/1238262153.jpg[/img]

But when you surpass the natural line of the car, it throws the overall look off, making the wheel fitment out of place.

Granted I LOVE this particular GS.  Definitely not my taste, but the guy has some serious work in it.

IMO, oni camber is like pickled onions.  They taste funny, but I keep eating them....and I can't figure out why I like it.

I agree with the kid. Nowadays a lot of people use camber as a fix-all, and I don't think it looks good, personally.

I like the car to be contained within itself, as one cohesive form, rather than having things jut out at odd angles.

Hopefully the owner doesn't take it personally, but I think that GS does [i]not[/i] look attractive at all with that stance.

I like the way some tasteful negative camber seems to make a lowered car 'melt' into the road, and it becomes a rolling silhouette. For this reason, I also like to see front and rear camber in the same realm.. when there is very little in the front and a lot in the rear, it looks like the rear is just being dragged around.

i think the reason most of us liked vipdout's car at that stage is because he was one of first, if not the first, in the states to be running ridiculous camber and low offset like that.

that being said, his current stage is my favorite because, like you said, it is contained within itself.

[img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2483/3754719643_6b25fe8c4e.jpg[/img]

Mode Parfume pulls it off perfectly. Any more than that does not look good IMO.

owned...
 
 
[IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/vq739s.jpg[/IMG]

Me personally, not a fan of the extreme negative camber. Reasonable ammount for clearance is great, and can look cool depending on the car. But at a certain point, I think the extreme camber starts to look weird and creates more problems than it solves. The old function vs form debate...

[img]http://www.gtcars.ca/images/blog/oni/DSC_1465.jpg[/img]

I've never driven a car with that much negative camber, but I would guess that the steering response is really bad (due to alignment issues, castor/toe/etc). And I would also guess that you're much more likely to loose traction in certain emergency situations since your contact patch on the ground is reduced to what appears to be the sidewall of the tire (which does not have tread haha). So it would be like rolling on bald 35/35/19's with a bad alignment. To each their own....

[img]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4151/4975904406_e4d3a9d380_z.jpg[/img]

hahahaha sorry found this and couldnt help it

^BWAHAHAHA!  Fire up the flux capacitor!

what happened there?
[QUOTE=NELSON09;357369]owned...
 
 
[IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/vq739s.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

the funk? lol
back to the future status lol

[QUOTE=NELSON09;357369]owned...
 
 
[IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/vq739s.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

HAHAHHA OMG COOOL!

i get sidewall wear just driving around. I dont think mine are that cambered. I wonder how much inner wheel width has to play in sidewall riding. Like if its more neg offset with a 9.5 width like i have it would be further out from inner track. but if it was a 11in wide with same offset more of the wheel would be under car causing it not to ride so much on wall? not saying this is true, just a wonderment i had.

I think oni camber is like a coke addict. its okay to have it once in a while unless you keep pushing your boundaries.. then, you just go to far.

I think oni camber exceeds the bounds of reason and moderation - however, that is the whole point of it. Hate it or love it - you gotta give these people a bit of respect for what they do.

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;357421]i get sidewall wear just driving around. I dont think mine are that cambered. I wonder how much inner wheel width has to play in sidewall riding. Like if its more neg offset with a 9.5 width like i have it would be further out from inner track. but if it was a 11in wide with same offset more of the wheel would be under car causing it not to ride so much on wall? not saying this is true, just a wonderment i had.

I think oni camber is like a coke addict. its okay to have it once in a while unless you keep pushing your boundaries.. then, you just go to far.[/QUOTE]

i think offset would only matter if you adjusted your camber for fitment, otherwise same alignment specs would probably yield the same results regardless of width and offset.

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;357421]I wonder how much inner wheel width has to play in sidewall riding.[/QUOTE]
 
people have said stuff to this effect before. the way i see it the suspension is going to sit how it is set up to sit with very little variation regardless of what wheel you put on. if the camber angle is the same then the contact patch is the same. could be wrong, but i don't see how.

i concur.

i like it, and id rock tire stickers on the outer edge of the tire so they dont get f-ed up too much

just run non stretched tires lol

you're probably end up having an even smaller contact patch.

Personally, I only use as much as I need to fit what I think flows right.  To me it's more important to ride low and not look rediculous.  I mean I radiused, tubbed, shaved, and rolled to get actual suspension travel at the lowest possible height.  Now going beyond that just for the hell of it is just pointless to me.  The flow is disrupted..and flow with a car is everything to me.  I want it to look sick, but somehow normal in a way that can't easily be described.

[QUOTE=elpresidente;357509]Personally, I only use as much as I need to fit what I think flows right.  To me it's more important to ride low and not look rediculous.  I mean I radiused, tubbed, shaved, and rolled to get actual suspension travel at the lowest possible height.  Now going beyond that just for the hell of it is just pointless to me.  The flow is disrupted..and flow with a car is everything to me.  I want it to look sick, but somehow normal in a way that can't easily be described.[/QUOTE]


I agree, I don't understand the point of driving like that

im pretty sure the "y not?" factor comes into to play with these builds.  im sure they are on spacers and lower control arms. thats looks like all to be needed. if they wanna switch it up adjust/swap the arms and take off the spacer. DONE. another standard VIP car. and remember there are a lot more VIP cars there. so ONI makes cars stand out in a crowd

I would really want to see pictures of oni-camber suspension set-ups, also How is the rain and you guys pulling alot of camber been? I bet its fun lol

It is straight up cut and weld. Custom control arms. Here is an example from a random google search for 'Demon Camber' don't know if this is the "right way" to do it, but someone did it (hahaha)

[url]http://jasonsgrainofsalt.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/how-its-done-oni-demon-camber/[/url]

love the extream look but not if i own it HA i, stancenation said 2011 may be the yr for "oni camber" if so im gonna bring to the NE as i myself will max my factory arms see how it is, imo the vip look needs a bit of camber one of the things that make them standout.

I like it, but it really depends on the vehicle, fender work, and size of wheels. I've seen several setups where it looks good. I'm not running oni-camber, close to it with -8 in the rear, unless that is considered oni, lol. I like it but I know on my ride it can be improved. I need more of a stretch so I can go lower and I need a lip or a rear bumper to make it look like the car is lower in the rear. I've seen cheez's and brokey's setup and I like it better than mine, and he has more neg camber than I do. Size of the wheels play a huge role. He's on 18's and it fits right. I'm on 20's and up front it looks good but 19's would look better, unless my body was lower. 

Some of the extreme demon camber is cool to look at, and I do like it, but I don't like the tuck on it. Fender on rim illusion is what I like, but that's personal preference.


[QUOTE=MR.J;357289]I personaly think its cool, but I dont think I would roll like that, I got friends pullin camber, just not like that. I[B]ts funny to see peoples faces  and screaming at you tellin you, your axles are broke lol.[/B] [/QUOTE]

I must concur.

[QUOTE=cheez80;357313]agreed -- i think even my car is slightly excessive. i'd like to take it down a degree or two.[/QUOTE]

Eh, I don't think so. It flows well with your car.

[QUOTE=firelizard;357345] when there is very little in the front and a lot in the rear, it looks like the rear is just being dragged around.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. Front and rear have to match. I was running a good amount of neg camber in the rear but my fronts literally looked straight compared to it. Had to throw on spacers up front and dial in some neg camber to make it match better, otherwise it looks like the car is just dragging rather than rolling.

[QUOTE=MR.J;361409]I would really want to see pictures of oni-camber suspension set-ups, also How is the rain and you guys pulling alot of camber been? I bet its fun lol[/QUOTE]

Hasn't been too bad for me. But my toe in the front is set up in such a way to have better tire wear that it follows the road more. I can feel it getting loose a little bit, but it's not too bad.

Would I do it on my ride, no.  But I don't mind it as long as the wheels are not preventing the car from going lower and the camber is close to equal front and rear.  Even if you could afford to daily a car like that, the attention must be over whelming.  I wouldnt imagine anyone driving a car like that more than once a week.

From what Dominik reported,

[img]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a130/VIPq45/Sessions%20Platinum%207-19-09/127-1.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE]I propose a post, not about how crazy his camber is or whether or not we like it; but more about the dedication he shows. Thats the height he drives at; no air, no trailer just like that

According to his diary on Mixi, when he came back from that event the rear of his car was covered in a film of metal filings. Not rubber, but metal! Apparently the car doesnt change gears so well anymore and he broke a rim. But his summary of the event: A great day out. Car broken but i will fix it...
[/QUOTE]

Thats dedication.  That has to be respected even if you are not into the look

[QUOTE=widebody_Q;361520]



Thats dedication.  That has to be respected even if you are not into the look[/QUOTE]
Yes i agree, i would never try this look with my car, but i would like to get a true platform, and experiment with that fine line of too much camber. One of the first reasons i feel in love with this style of modding cars was seeing videos of these cars driving with this crazy amount of camber, but it somehow(IMO) flowed so well:giggity:
[IMG]http://dirtypenguin.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/2009_420006.jpg?w=950&h=712[/IMG]

[QUOTE=MR.J;361409]I would really want to see pictures of oni-camber suspension set-ups, also How is the rain and you guys pulling alot of camber been? I bet its fun lol[/QUOTE]

it's a little bit scary -- the car slips and slides more. (insert trick daddy/trina reference here)

i broke traction slightly coming to a stop yesterday, but i left enough space that i didn't hit anyone haha

[QUOTE=cheez80;361534]it's a little bit scary -- the car slips and slides more. (insert trick daddy/trina reference here)

i broke traction slightly coming to a stop yesterday, but i left enough space that i didn't hit anyone haha[/QUOTE]
things like that tend to happen when you have a 4 - 5 inch contact patch an a full sized luxury sedan, lol.

You have to match your fender lines or it just gets silly looking.

Kinda cool to look at though.

[QUOTE=brainneeded;361561]things like that tend to happen when you have a 4 - 5 inch contact patch an a full sized luxury sedan, lol.[/QUOTE]

indeed. fml -___-;;

No thanks. I wonder how quickly the blow through rear axles/rods/ends/bearings. 
 
I'd rather see that green gloria or whatever with the same wheels and having them 'normal' and still driving that low. He could pull it off, but it seems 'easier' to chop/weld some arms and call it a done deal. 
 
I remember Grant driving around like this in his 'GT VIP' car lol...I think he's the only one who actually went as far as cutting control arms to make it happen. 
 
I also think they do it because they haven't been able to get the car into the shop to stuff those humongous wheels underneath the car, and are too anxious to get them on, so they decide to ride this way until they do.

I'm pro demon camber, I can't explain it though. It just looks good (in moderation). I think somewhere around -6 in the front and -8 in the back would be ideal. And I also would love to see some setup pics, that green kei car is cool, but that's a solid axle. I want to see it done on some cars with independent suspension.

[QUOTE=bob_sagat;361594]I think somewhere around -6 in the front and -8 in the back would be ideal. [/QUOTE]

a few of us are running about that much -- i don't think that can be classified as oni camber, though; that's super mild compared to some of the cars in japan

[QUOTE=cheez80;361534]it's a little bit scary -- the car slips and slides more. (insert trick daddy/trina reference here)

i broke traction slightly coming to a stop yesterday, but i left enough space that i didn't hit anyone haha[/QUOTE]

You know what I noticed? Those stupid reflectors on the road. More of the ones that are the curved white ones.....that's what gets ya to take it to da house

Looks about as pointless as a box of wet hammers, but a box of wet hammers is nicer to look at...

[QUOTE=F.L.S.;361647]Looks about as pointless as a box of wet hammers, but a box of wet hammers is nicer to look at...[/QUOTE]
thats an idiom i've never heard of before in my life.

[QUOTE=donpisto;361642]You know what I noticed? Those stupid reflectors on the road. More of the ones that are the curved white ones.....that's what gets ya to take it to da house[/QUOTE]

haven't heard this shit since high school hahaha

[youtube]sPwICxjNvY4[/youtube]

I love excessive camber, but it isn't something I would do to my car.

I like to look at it lol

I like lots of camber, it makes cars look cool

that is all

Trailer queen: is okay depending on the overall look of the car.
Daily driver: fail.

That sums it up for me.

looks retarded in my opinion...like somebody smooshed the car and the wheels bent....

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/speedaddict/hellaflat.jpg[/IMG]

do the right thing to make the wheel fit...bodywork.

Yea but you can't say that about all cars with Oni camber. A lot of them have done it properly with cut and stitched fenders and choose to add excessive camber for the look. It's rarely a body work thing.

[QUOTE=speedaddict;364247]looks retarded in my opinion...like somebody smooshed the car and the wheels bent....

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/speedaddict/hellaflat.jpg[/IMG]

do the right thing to make the wheel fit...bodywork.[/QUOTE]

oh man lol! i use to do this to my hotwheels when i was a kid.

thought it looked cool lowered and stuff

[QUOTE=genetic;364297]oh man lol! i use to do this to my hotwheels when i was a kid.

thought it looked cool lowered and stuff[/QUOTE]

LOLOLOLOL the force is strong in this one

[QUOTE=4DGS;364259]Yea but you can't say that about all cars with Oni camber. A lot of them have done it properly with cut and stitched fenders and choose to add excessive camber for the look. It's rarely a body work thing.[/QUOTE]


Yea, I do agree with you,  just like a bunch of people choose to run the big ugly spoilers on the hondas...for the look.  Its a style they choose and like.  

Still doesn't look right to me...and that's only my opinion which isn't worth much.

I like cars you can drive and enjoy, so the excessive camber thing seems silly to me. Sort of a band-aid fix for wheels that are WAY too aggressive.

Looks broken, but the opposite way Doc Brown's DeLorean was:
[img]http://www.pocket-lint.com/images/dynamic/NEWS-32125-c90e9be225bb1c55b8d9931829d1bf71.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=CrazyHawaiian;361426]It is straight up cut and weld. Custom control arms. Here is an example from a random google search for 'Demon Camber' don't know if this is the "right way" to do it, but someone did it (hahaha)
 
[URL]http://jasonsgrainofsalt.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/how-its-done-oni-demon-camber/[/URL][/QUOTE]
 
 
Haha dude took my pics without giving me credit! Oh well, not that fussed.
 
The inner lip of the wheels on that car was less than a finger off the asphalt, and understandably very beatup. But from seeing that car at an event in '07 i was told it got trailered there (I assume the same here). Note the crack in the weld of the suspension too.. Shit was pretty ghetto
 
 
This car on the otherhand drove to the event:
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/dbloemhard/VIP/Kbreak10/P1040263.jpg[/IMG]
and a shot of his suspension
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/dbloemhard/VIP/Kbreak10/P1040367.jpg[/IMG]
 
And as for the owner of this car:
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/dbloemhard/VIP/Kbreak10/P1040567.jpg[/IMG]
I spoke to him about oni-can, his car and the reasons for it etc. I have met him at a few shows, from back when it was cleanly done on under 10 deg of camber with 18" Vienna LM-9s. He even said it was really just an attention getter, and not really "good looking" as such. That car was supposed to be getting pieced out after K-break though, since he was going to concentrate on doing other people's cars.
 
 
Also, as Agi said, i have spoken to the owner of the infamous green Y33 cedric (It has since been re-done with radiused fenders, flat black paint [URL]http://www.7tune.com/wtf-a-famous-car-makes-a-surprise-reappearance/[/URL]). He does it for attention, it has no other purpose than to get a "what the fuck" look from people.
 
 
For the uninitiated, that gives you an idea of what the vippers in Japan are like. Over in the west VIP has been introduced as a "high class, super stylish automotive style - pimpin style for the true playa", but over there its mainly young bored countryside kids, doing crazy shit to luxury sedans. They been doing it since the super widebody yellow UCF11s and Crowns in the late 90s, and they will keep doing crazy shit for years to come.
 
 
For the record, i love oni-can. Wouldnt do it myself, but i love to see the extremes that they are going to over here.

Nice write up!

I might as well do this too for the camber wear is on the side wall and tread and me going through tires ever month or so

yeah...just to post it cause i miss it
[img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2114/2238057203_e428c07d36_b.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Dominik;365319] 
For the record, i love oni-can. Wouldnt do it myself, but i love to see the extremes that they are going to over here.[/QUOTE]

Yup. I feel the same way. 

Of course it's stupid. That's what makes it fun. Driving a car 1" off the ground is stupid too, yet aparently that is cool. Innovation is a good thing, even if it's extreme. 

Back in ~'06ish I had -9 degrees on the rear of my first G50, and I absolutely loved the looks I got from passerbys.. haha 

5 years later not as extreme, but still lots of WTF looks haha.. I miss this car a lil:

[img]http://www.fortune-auto.net/subfolder-gallery/19.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.fortune-auto.net/subfolder-gallery/23.jpg[/img]