Phantom Air Cup Kit ????

whats up guys? im thinking about going with the Phantom Air Cup kit can you guys give me your opinions about this setup?

thanks a lot guys.

cups are the future and the future is now.

Cups are for drinking lol

Neways, I wouldnt mind knowing as well

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;358765]cups are the future and the future is now.[/QUOTE]

Add two girls per cup and its a wrap!

this has been covered before as far as benefits of cups in general. from there it's just a matter of build quality. lifetime warranty... how can i lose?

the only limit I can see with cups is the amount of lift  to go over obstacles and not being able to go max low when car is at rest since the coils pretty dictate the max low.   The plus would be better handling and better ride at cruising speeds while doing both at low ride heights.

You can also make it where you have super low park style then use the cup to lift for drive height. They do lift high so you could have it to go low and go high.

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;358838]You can also make it where you have super low park style then use the cup to lift for drive height. They do lift high so you could have it to go low and go high.[/QUOTE]

I think you got it backwards or maybe I did.... the cups aren't meant to be driven while inflated.   I believe they are suppose to be deflated for regular driving as if you are just on coilovers.   and you inflate to get over obstacles.   Maybe I got it wrong but that's what I understand.

That is what I thought too. But i heard you can do both

you can do both, but you negate one of the main benefits of the cup if you drive aired up -- you change the spring rate when you do so. with it fully deflated, you're using your coilover 100%.

one other thing to keep in mind is (you guys may have seen this on malik's car, which was featured on stancenation) is that the cups will raise your car 2-3" at fully deflated height. this means you need to have some way to drop your car 2-3" past its' current ride height if you want to ride at the same amount of low with the cups fully deflated. cool thing is, if you have s13/4 conversion on your car, you'll probably have enough adjustment (possibly out of the box, but i haven't played with the setup yet) to get the car to where you need it to be.

you could set up a cup to be fully up at ride height without changing the spring rate. this would be done by snugging the spring perch with the cup inflated. the downside is you will lose both lift range and suspension travel when lowered.
 
also, cups will not raise your ride height. the perch should be snugged against spring with the cup deflated. this will retain your ride height set by the lower braket. if you have a problem with the lower spring perch contacting the lower bracket then shorter springs can be installed.

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;358894]also, cups will not raise your ride height. the perch should be snugged against spring with the cup deflated. this will retain your ride height set by the lower braket. if you have a problem with the lower spring perch contacting the lower bracket then shorter springs can be installed.[/QUOTE]

BoB, you're right, but you're limited by how short of a spring you can find. i feel most cats will just run original coilover parts and be disappointed by the height they get.

I had airforce cup kit in the past! Great set up I do miss it :( lol but I was in an accident so I got rid of the suspension due damaged components! But set the coilovers to ride height and use cups to lift over bumps and driveways I don't recommend using the cups to ride on matter who says you can. Great design I wish I could buy another set up but money is tight right now :(

thanks a lot guys for all the input i appreciate it.

[QUOTE=cheez80;358897]BoB, you're right, but you're limited by how short of a spring you can find. i feel most cats will just run original coilover parts and be disappointed by the height they get.[/QUOTE]
 
yours was the first "platform" car that i noticed where spring length was even an issue. every coilover i've delt with (mutiple brands accross multiple cars) bottom out well before the perch binds to the lower bracket. spring choices are pretty plentiful as well, swift goes down to 4".

I am lost (laughs)

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;358920]yours was the first "platform" car that i noticed where spring length was even an issue. every coilover i've delt with (mutiple brands accross multiple cars) bottom out well before the perch binds to the lower bracket. spring choices are pretty plentiful as well, swift goes down to 4".[/QUOTE]

haha, fair enough. i only have experience with my car, so i can't comment on any other platform. sorry if my comments implied i knew what i was talking about :P

We forgive you, we are use to the government.

[QUOTE=cheez80;358957]haha, fair enough. i only have experience with my car, so i can't comment on any other platform. sorry if my comments implied i knew what i was talking about :P[/QUOTE]
 
nah, i naturally assumed you were clueless. =p

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;359007]nah, i naturally assumed you were clueless. =p[/QUOTE]

you wouldn't be the first :P

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;358963]We forgive you, we are use to the government.[/QUOTE]

lol

What are all the companys that make cup kits?
 
besides: 
phantom cup kit
Top secret cup (forgot what they called it)

platinum
umbrella
roberuta
mode parfume (roberuta)
skipper (roberuta)
top secret (roberuta)
 
 
 
air force ( i hesitate to mention this one because ppl will always go for the lowest price it seems)

doesnt youzealand or w.e make one?

[QUOTE=BAHC;363156]doesnt youzealand or w.e make one?[/QUOTE]

i think youzealand's kit might be a rebranded roberuta setup. they do list an application for w220/w215, at the very least. i have the flyer somewhere...

[QUOTE=BAHC;363156]doesnt youzealand or w.e make one?[/QUOTE]
 
i don't think yz does. you may be mistaking the dust cover for the external height adjustment or their ucf30/mb factory air mated to arogusta coilovers. looks like they also have something new but it involves hydraulic fuild best i can tell. seems similar to the g50 active suspensuion, although my knowledge is limited.
 
not sure who w.e is.

w.e. = whoever...

reading through, trying to understand.

good topic!

[QUOTE=cheez80;358886]you can do both, but you negate one of the main benefits of the cup if you drive aired up -- you change the spring rate when you do so. with it fully deflated, you're using your coilover 100%.

one other thing to keep in mind is (you guys may have seen this on malik's car, which was featured on stancenation) is that the cups will raise your car 2-3" at fully deflated height. this means you need to have some way to drop your car 2-3" past its' current ride height if you want to ride at the same amount of low with the cups fully deflated. cool thing is, if you have s13/4 conversion on your car, you'll probably have enough adjustment (possibly out of the box, but i haven't played with the setup yet) to get the car to where you need it to be.[/QUOTE]

actually charles, the cups adds an additional 1.5" in height which we can straighten out. keep in mind that Malik has one of the original design cups before we started to modify after some R&D.

[QUOTE=Blitz;358851]I think you got it backwards or maybe I did.... the cups aren't meant to be driven while inflated.   I believe they are suppose to be deflated for regular driving as if you are just on coilovers.   and you inflate to get over obstacles.   Maybe I got it wrong but that's what I understand.[/QUOTE]

The Phantom Cup Kit can be driven with air. Guaranteed

[QUOTE=OG;362940]

platinum
umbrella
roberuta
mode parfume (roberuta)
skipper (roberuta)
top secret (roberuta)
 
 
 
air force ( i hesitate to mention this one because ppl will always go for the lowest price it seems)[/QUOTE]

With the Phantom Cup Kit, you are allowed to drive with air. The other companies listed, I cannot speak for.

[QUOTE=Platinum-VIP;363320]actually charles, the cups adds an additional 1.5" in height which we can straighten out. keep in mind that Malik has one of the original design cups before we started to modify after some R&D.[/QUOTE]

chris, thanks for the clarification. that's what i heard from malik -- it's great that you guys managed to get the height down

Platinum-VIP, I know its not possible to define the ride quality (since it is based on the coilovers). But I'm wondering if you could describe your thoughts on how much the ride quality changes when you are on inflated Cups. Is it noticable? Or do you not even notice? I've read here that the spring rate would be increased, which would mean a stiffer ride (and that's cool, just curious). But I also imagine it's possible you wouldn't really feel any difference. Do alot of the guys using Phantom Cups drive with them inflated? 

And just so this does not come off wrong, I'm not trying to single out Phantom Cup's or anything. I'm sure the answer would be similar for any style of Cup Kit. I'm just asking because I know you got alot of experience with Cups and you've probably felt the differences on alot more setup's than alot of us. I'm thinking about possibly doing Phantom Cup's on my JIC's in the future if my next setup sucks (should be here in 1 month, we will see). Mahalo!!

I just a small question...

I know airforce use to make the kit and boldworld makes it well robaruta, why is it they had cups to fit the back of certain cars and platinum VIP and I heard umbrella cant fit the rear. The rear end on some cars have to be "redegreed" to make them fit properly!

Im so close to going to coiloverss and cups again but I'm not liking the fact that phantom
Cup only fit my fronts and maybe umbrella.  Some may ask why you want the rear also.. Well mainly do to the fact of functionality just in case I need it or it be nice to have that option .

[QUOTE=CrazyHawaiian;363327]Platinum-VIP, I know its not possible to define the ride quality (since it is based on the coilovers). But I'm wondering if you could describe your thoughts on how much the ride quality changes when you are on inflated Cups. Is it noticable? Or do you not even notice? I've read here that the spring rate would be increased, which would mean a stiffer ride (and that's cool, just curious). But I also imagine it's possible you wouldn't really feel any difference. Do alot of the guys using Phantom Cups drive with them inflated? 

And just so this does not come off wrong, I'm not trying to single out Phantom Cup's or anything. I'm sure the answer would be similar for any style of Cup Kit. I'm just asking because I know you got alot of experience with Cups and you've probably felt the differences on alot more setup's than alot of us. I'm thinking about possibly doing Phantom Cup's on my JIC's in the future if my next setup sucks (should be here in 1 month, we will see). Mahalo!![/QUOTE]

ok so as far as stiffness goes, if you drive with the cup at full up, you can tell it's stiff. if you just air up a little bit, its not bad, a typical person cannot tell the difference.

so just imagine on a scale of 1 - 10 (10 being hella stiff), full up will be 10 and if you hold the switch to go up for about a second it would be around 3.

i hope i didnt confuse you.... i wish you were local so i can demonstrate it. LOL

[QUOTE=xxjustimajinxx;363345]I just a small question...

I know airforce use to make the kit and boldworld makes it well robaruta, why is it they had cups to fit the back of certain cars and platinum VIP and I heard umbrella cant fit the rear. The rear end on some cars have to be "redegreed" to make them fit properly!

Im so close to going to coiloverss and cups again but I'm not liking the fact that phantom
Cup only fit my fronts and maybe umbrella.  Some may ask why you want the rear also.. Well mainly do to the fact of functionality just in case I need it or it be nice to have that option .[/QUOTE]

that's actually a good question.... on some cars like the 2GS/3GS, IS300/250/350/F, SC, etc... the way the car was built from factory does not allow us to fit the cup. The Phantom Cups measures at 5" diameter. 

if you look at the top hat of the rear coilovers of a 2GS versus the rear top hat of a rear coilover for a 1GS, its different.

for example: (yay pictures!!! :giggity:)

2GS
[IMG]http://www.meganracing.com/uploadimage/regular/GS300.jpg[/IMG]

1GS
[IMG]http://www.meganracing.com/uploadimage/regular/11122010_185545_8439_MR-CDK-LG92.jpg[/IMG]

notice how the 2GS rear top hats are smaller than the 1GS?

so you may ask, what does this crap mean? haha well, since the diameter of the hat is smaller the the diameter of the cup, there will not be enough room for the cup in the rear. so we would now have to redegree the suspension.

i hope this clarifies everything for you. if you are confused, it's ok because I think I just confused myself as well... LOL!

[QUOTE=xxjustimajinxx;363345]I just a small question...
 
I know airforce use to make the kit and boldworld makes it well robaruta, why is it they had cups to fit the back of certain cars and platinum VIP and I heard umbrella cant fit the rear. The rear end on some cars have to be "redegreed" to make them fit properly!
 
Im so close to going to coiloverss and cups again but I'm not liking the fact that phantom
Cup only fit my fronts and maybe umbrella. Some may ask why you want the rear also.. Well mainly do to the fact of functionality just in case I need it or it be nice to have that option .[/QUOTE]
 
i'm working with umbrella to make a 2gs rear kit (in fact i'll probably send them one of your rear struts). i had accepted it as not possible also until i realized that bold world does it. we discussed it and he assures me that it is possible, and not hard at that.

[QUOTE=OG;363357]i'm working with umbrella to make a 2gs rear kit (in fact i'll probably send them one of your rear struts). i had accepted it as not possible also until i realized that bold world does it. we discussed it and he assures me that it is possible, and not hard at that.[/QUOTE]


let my car be the tester car lol im down for discounted shit or free shit hahah but naw really let me know when that happens. last i talk to him he said it will work but i know you insisted it wont work so i duno.....
 
[QUOTE=Platinum-VIP;363353]ok so as far as stiffness goes, if you drive with the cup at full up, you can tell it's stiff. if you just air up a little bit, its not bad, a typical person cannot tell the difference.

so just imagine on a scale of 1 - 10 (10 being hella stiff), full up will be 10 and if you hold the switch to go up for about a second it would be around 3.

i hope i didnt confuse you.... i wish you were local so i can demonstrate it. LOL



that's actually a good question.... on some cars like the 2GS/3GS, IS300/250/350/F, SC, etc... the way the car was built from factory does not allow us to fit the cup. The Phantom Cups measures at 5" diameter. 

if you look at the top hat of the rear coilovers of a 2GS versus the rear top hat of a rear coilover for a 1GS, its different.

for example: (yay pictures!!! :giggity:)

2GS
[IMG]http://www.meganracing.com/uploadimage/regular/GS300.jpg[/IMG]

1GS
[IMG]http://www.meganracing.com/uploadimage/regular/11122010_185545_8439_MR-CDK-LG92.jpg[/IMG]

notice how the 2GS rear top hats are smaller than the 1GS?

so you may ask, what does this crap mean? haha well, since the diameter of the hat is smaller the the diameter of the cup, there will not be enough room for the cup in the rear. so we would now have to redegree the suspension.

i hope this clarifies everything for you. if you are confused, it's ok because I think I just confused myself as well... LOL![/QUOTE]

yea i see what your saying.. but what if a top hat was added to the top of the rear cups so it can fit. like a top hat that fits the stock location and mount that to the top of the cup for the rear? or will that not work? also what does redegree mean really?

[QUOTE=xxjustimajinxx;363371]let my car be the tester car lol im down for discounted shit or free shit hahah but naw really let me know when that happens. last i talk to him he said it will work but i know you insisted it wont work so i duno.....
 


yea i see what your saying.. but what if a top hat was added to the top of the rear cups so it can fit. like a top hat that fits the stock location and mount that to the top of the cup for the rear? or will that not work? also what does redegree mean really?[/QUOTE]

The car still wouldn't be able to accommodate it.... If it only accepts a small top hat, how can we squeeze a bigger top hat?

couldn't you swap the rear spring for a shorter spring and space out the top so theres a place for the cup>?

if no fit, put spit

either the cup would have to be the same diameter of the spring which would make it kind of hard to regulate air up. or the cup would have to be under the spring with a large bore to be able to fit the strut through.

look at the airrunner design for the rear of the 2gs. the bag is at the bottom. u cant even see it because the tire blocks it, but you can see the valve going in.
[img]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1398.snc4/165038_1766961980034_1418726418_1954558_4356661_n.jpg[/img]
yo chris u know if the cups will work on a s2k

[QUOTE=CrazyHawaiian;363508]if no fit, put spit[/QUOTE]

you made me choke on my beer

[QUOTE=Platinum-VIP;363353]The Phantom Cups measures at 5" diameter.[/QUOTE]

I'm assuming the questions about the rear fitting are with vehicles that have a separate cup for the spring. Basically fronts have the spring on the shock but the rear has them separate.

If that's the case, would the rear work with a G35? There are coilovers that have have the spring on the shock in the back, just not sure if there's enough room. I know with UAS there isn't, so they put the bag in the spring bucket. Although I can get UAS relatively cheap, I'd much rather run the Platinum cup kit. Won't be anytime soon, just trying to do some research.

And to clarify, basically the coilover needs an extra 1.5" to be able to maintain the same height, correct?

[QUOTE=donpisto;364348]I'm assuming the questions about the rear fitting are with vehicles that have a separate cup for the spring. Basically fronts have the spring on the shock but the rear has them separate.

If that's the case, would the rear work with a G35? There are coilovers that have have the spring on the shock in the back, just not sure if there's enough room. I know with UAS there isn't, so they put the bag in the spring bucket. Although I can get UAS relatively cheap, I'd much rather run the Platinum cup kit. Won't be anytime soon, just trying to do some research.

And to clarify, basically the coilover needs an extra 1.5" to be able to maintain the same height, correct?[/QUOTE]

if you have a static coilover in the rear .. your G is good to go.