US cars and silly thoughts on 'styled'

Over the past couple of months, I've been thinking about the US compared to Japan and Thailand as far as the culture goes. As we know, the culture in japan and similar areas are pretty 'on point'. Even with non-platforms it is just ridiculous how creative individuals have become with the style.

As I look at American vehicles, I've often wondered where manufacturers failed in order to allow us to be just as creative. I will admit, some of the newer vehicles that are coming out do have potential to be classy and elegant, but what about the older ones? Is it the general design or something else?

The 300C is pretty much the only well executed platform. I have wondered about the Lincoln towncar, CHrysler concorde,LHS, Ford Crown Vic, Cadillacs to name a few full-sized cars.

In the midsize category there's the Lincoln LS/MKZ, Ford 500/Fusion, CHrysler 300m and probably a few others.

I guess what I am asking is, what prevents the creativity of our own (and I use that term loosely) vehicles? Is it just the reliability and design or something much more?

I know we tend to want to remain true to the style, but like has been seen in Thailand and such, there are some cars that, done right, look damn elegant.

You can add just about all the caddilacs to that.  Just because people don't style them, doesn't mean they won't fit in and be accepted.

We don't have the same eyes for details as they do.  Also, I don't think people understand the scene as well as they think they do.  Because of the language barrier, many just look at pics and are not educated on whats going on.  And this is way beyond pulling radiusing fender, its the details that no one would notice at all but help execute better.  We are stuck on names rather than how that part will flow with our build

Then there is lack of support here in the states.  Custom is very scary to most people since the outcome isn't garenteed.  If you have an off the shelf product which you know what you are getting, you are more likely to get that and be satisfied with that you have.  Where in Japan and Thailand, they graduated from off the shelf stuff and feel the need to go custom to take it to the next level and it shows.  The custom work and creativity help the scene grow and progress.  People here don't want to go custom on a car that hasn't been "accepted" with absolutely no aftermarket support.  


If you look at North American scene now and 3-4 years ago, it has changed for the better.  People are more open to doing body work and custom mods.  I feel we as a whole, we will always be behind because our lack of details but we can still put out some sick cars that can get their attention as well.

So its mostly a difference in mentality I reckon?

I've gone back through threads from years ago and I definitely agree that we've come up. I guess one could say I am somewhat boggled by the mentality as a whole. Sure "custom" is a rather large endeavor to most, but is that one of the differences between a pioneer and the average joe?

By all means this isn't a diss to those here or anyone who is trying to make it in the game, perhaps just a means by which to stretch our perceptions. 

For example, lately I've been looking at the 90s era cadillacs (mostly the SLS and STS) and like some of the cars in Thailand (Aimgain Camry in particular), the image of one of those with somethng fabbed from Mac Blick or JP for an LS kinda has me gigglish. It some circles, that would be insane, but looking at the profile of both, the general design is similar. If I could photoshop, I probably wouldn't have made this thread. 

Seeing the rides that alot of members have put out over the years, I guess I'm just wondering when we, as a whole, are going to take it to the next level. Take what we know, cultivate it, and make it our own. Some of the shops do awesome work (as I have read). With the sort of funds that individuals throw around to have kits and such ordered, not to mention the downtime for some of these rides, it's perked a curiosity of doing one-offs. It is similar to the beginning of some of the famed companies that we use (Junction Produce comes to mind).


I know there are members who are more involved in this that the rest, but maybe they could shed light on some of the finer details that we lack as a whole. I've always been curious since most of the cars look the same, but there are some that just grab attention while others are just 'there'. Since I, personally, have never been to an event (or meets) only pics and build threads have sufficed.

IMO it comes down to $$$ and the cost of labor
What you have to understand and know is that, in Japan & thailand and all those other parts is that full custom body work is dirt cheap compared to what would cost us here in the states a fortune! So that alone opens alot of doors for them. Also here in the states, the scene is so small that you can get away w/ running a kit for a awhile before seeing someone else with that same kit (again this being due to cost) but in Japan, the kits are so easy to come by that you can run into the same kit on a regular, so the need to be more creative and think outside the box comes from that. Trying to stay away from being plain and like the next car.
 
In the US we have to deal w/ custom, shipping charges and crazy paint cost VS in Japan the price of kits and paint is virtually nothing. Also, alot of the cars you see out there, the owners own or are a part of a shop/paint shop where they can do all or most of the work them selves.
 
As far as platforming goes, though, I think if enough thought, planning & money is put into it, you can pull off almost any non-traditional platform cars......ALMOST!
 
 
 
***Also wanted to add that it's not uncommon to see multiple people (friends/clubs/family) contribute to a build VS I think here in the states it's usually all on the owner to fund the builds

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;397930] ***Also wanted to add that it's not uncommon to see multiple people (friends/clubs/family) contribute to a build VS I think here in the states it's usually all on the owner to fund the builds[/QUOTE]
 
Let's carry on tradition, lemme get sum $$$ Pancakes, lol...
 
On a real note tho, very good & insightful thread. I agree with Pancakes' comments, as those pointers are definitely factors on this issue. I know this firsthand, being originally from a 3rd world country. A pretty good paint job might run you a $1,000 and probably even less in the Dominican Republic.

The VIP/JDM import scene caters mostly to young adults. Do you really see them driving Towncars,  Chryslers, Crown Vics, or Cadillacs? And if you haven't noticed, we're in a recession. Not many young adults have the funds to do full custom body work.

Money is apart of it but most those guys with their GF's combined make less than us so it evens out and their cost of living is just as high, if not higher in some places

  They make more with less.  If you give the average modder over there a lower budget to offset the shipping cost and paint/body, they still go harder.  From what I am seeing, their lighting mods actually cost more than what we would pay in the states.  They are just better at math.  That includes Budgeting,  and calculating mods.

Its not just the VIP scene, they put out some of the sickest cars period in every single scene.  Their low rider as well as Dub scenes cost more for them than they do for us but they still do it on the highest level.

Many tackle DIY projects to save where they can

That's true as well, most countries make peanuts compared to us. I'm also retracting my comparo of the Dominican Republic nd Japan, forgot they're not a 3rd world country. :pat:

[QUOTE=Shaminii;397943]The VIP/JDM import scene caters mostly to young adults. Do you really see them driving Towncars,  Chryslers, Crown Vics, or Cadillacs? And if you haven't noticed, we're in a recession. Not many young adults have the funds to do full custom body work.[/QUOTE]

To touch on this point a little, what really is the difference between a cadillac and lexus price wise? I can understand that name is everything (to some), and for some reason when people mention Lexus, people just flock to the brand, but seriously- what is truly different? Both upper class cars. I'm just wondering why, in some instances, people tend to 'jump ship' if you will.  Personally, we talk about striving to take the game to the next level, but at the same time we limit ourselves to a select few platforms. Diversity brings creativity sometimes. Not trying to rock the boat but the options seem almost limitless if the mentality was broadened.

As far as recession goes, its true alot of young adults don't have the funds for custom bodywork, yet they have the funds to fork out Gs for a set of rims and a kit that they have to wait months to get. A somewhat misconstrued point, but a point nonetheless.  

Q and Pancakes is pretty much hitting my thoughts on this. It seems that, aside from a difference in cost/production, the mentality or dedication as a whole just seems to be on a completely different level than our own. 

I digress. Didn't know that there was such a major difference in cost between here and other areas nor the sort of support into a build. Thanks for shedding some light on that (learn something new every day)

you say spend the money we pay to import a kit on a custom kit instead as they do in japan..but in japan and thailand, they are customizing existing off the shelf parts...so in reality, itd cost MORE as we would have to pay for the kit, and then pay to customize that.

[QUOTE=widebody_Q;397960]They are just better at math. That includes Budgeting, and calculating mods.
 
Its not just the VIP scene, they put out some of the sickest cars period in every single scene. Their low rider as well as Dub ..............do it on the highest level.
 
Many tackle DIY projects to save where they can[/QUOTE]
 
 
This. QFT.

IF anything, I would think more and more people would be doing what japan is doing in taking other bumpers and molding and doing diy to them onto their cars. Cause the price of a kit and ship is outrageous. And to be honest, i am quite surprised you dont see much of it.

Go hard or dont go at all. Also there is a lot of "need to be trendy" people who are not passionate about cars, they just jump from scene to scene when ever the next big hype is. Those are the people who dont want to do what it takes to get there and challenge them selves to new automotive tuning heights.

mokey see monkey do. u.s. vip is a low resolution copy of japanese vip. over here japan is viewed as "the bar" so everything we do is in relationship to what they have already done. they innovate, we duplicate; sometimes generally, sometimes specifically. the mindset stateside has always been to stay true to the roots, which puts us at a lag. combine that with the per capita of our elite vs. theirs and you end up with a small ratio of dedicated american enthusiasts with the means/desire to give an accurate depiction of what vip is, who also have an embedded tendency to do what has already been done.
 
as time progresses people are becoming more open. once upon a time (not long ago), we were arguing over the most basic aspects of vip (platform being one of the biggest). now that we've witnessed drastic changes first hand, and exceptions to almost every rule, cats are getting out of the comfort zone (not too far) having realized that there are no rules and everything can change in the blink of an eye. shouldn't be long now before ppl stop living in the shadow and step into the light. some of the og's have (~) a decade into this and it's only a matter of time before we spread our wings and leave the nest. then you will see alternate platforms, truly unique styling, etc.
 
as far as what the japanese do, they are no bettter than us; they just have the home court advantage. there is nothing in their dna (afaik) that makes them smarter, better craftsman, more stylish, etc. we are just learning to play a game they invented. we also have superficial exposure. if you look  at some of the diy's, and even some of the features, you will see that even some of the most high profile cars aren't put together extremely well. they may look good sitting still in a pic in a mag in an amazing setting but that's as much as we see. skin deep.
 
now more than ever i see plenty of room for improvement on every level;  technical, styling, etc.

Even in the simplest terms.
Japan is smaller than Cali but has 4 times the population Cali does.
Also, these 'platform' cars are they're domestics. Think of them as Cadi's, Buick's and Lincoln's in terms of popularity.
They're aftermarket is so much bigger because there's a hell of alot more of them around in a much more concentrated space. Not to metion what happens to the price of a car over ~7 years old in Japan (plummets).
Also, the cars we see in the mags are such a a small percentage of the overall scene. Think of it as a Japanese guy looking at a Goodguys Mag. Those cars are the creme of the crop and are less than 1% of the general hot rod scene.
It's perception plain and simple.
As already stated when we open our minds to other "non-platform" cars then the real pioneering and innovation comes along.

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;399235]IF anything, I would think more and more people would be doing what japan is doing in taking other bumpers and molding and doing diy to them onto their cars. Cause the price of a kit and ship is outrageous. And to be honest, i am quite surprised you dont see much of it.
 
Go hard or dont go at all. Also there is a lot of "need to be trendy" people who are not passionate about cars, they just jump from scene to scene when ever the next big hype is. Those are the people who dont want to do what it takes to get there and challenge them selves to new automotive tuning heights.[/QUOTE]
 
 
i def agree with your 2nd paragraph.  im still 50/50 on people retrofitting oem bumpers of other makes onto their cars.

[QUOTE=OG;399249]mokey see monkey do. u.s. vip is a low resolution copy of japanese vip. over here japan is viewed as "the bar" so everything we do is in relationship to what they have already done. they innovate, we duplicate; sometimes generally, sometimes specifically. the mindset stateside has always been to stay true to the roots, which puts us at a lag. combine that with the per capita of our elite vs. theirs and you end up with a small ratio of dedicated american enthusiasts with the means/desire to give an accurate depiction of what vip is, who also have an embedded tendency to do what has already been done.
 
as time progresses people are becoming more open. once upon a time (not long ago), we were arguing over the most basic aspects of vip (platform being one of the biggest). now that we've witnessed drastic changes first hand, and exceptions to almost every rule, cats are getting out of the comfort zone (not too far) having realized that there are no rules and everything can change in the blink of an eye. shouldn't be long now before ppl stop living in the shadow and step into the light. some of the og's have (~) a decade into this and it's only a matter of time before we spread our wings and leave the nest. then you will see alternate platforms, truly unique styling, etc.
 
as far as what the japanese do, they are no bettter than us; they just have the home court advantage. there is nothing in their dna (afaik) that makes them smarter, better craftsman, more stylish, etc. we are just learning to play a game they invented. we also have superficial exposure. if you look  at some of the diy's, and even some of the features, you will see that even some of the most high profile cars aren't put together extremely well. they may look good sitting still in a pic in a mag in an amazing setting but that's as much as we see. skin deep.
 
now more than ever i see plenty of room for improvement on every level;  technical, styling, etc.[/QUOTE]

Well said, I'd have to agree.

[QUOTE=BAHC;399517]i def agree with your 2nd paragraph.  im still 50/50 on people retrofitting oem bumpers of other makes onto their cars.[/QUOTE]
i like it, if it flows. but thats true of everything.

I dunno, seems like a pretty simple answer to me. VIP style didn't originate in the US, so it would make sense that the US does not have as many VIP builds, and thus we don't see as much VIP style creativity as the guys in Japan. The US has it's own styles that originated here, so that's where you'll find the most creativity in the US. For example, Muscle Cars, DUB Cars, Donks, Mini-Trucks, Lifted Trucks, etc,etc. Yeah, we might not be into those styles/cultures, we might even think it looks dumb in some cases (*cough* Donks *cough*), but it's still creativity at work, people pushing the limits. In that sense, I think it could be said that nothing is holding anyone back from doing anything. It's just a matter of where you are, and what you think is cool.

if it looks like PANCAKE!'s car then it's creative, secksy, and all of the above, lol.

pancakes is a local celebrity round these parts

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;397930]IMO it comes down to $$$ and the cost of labor
What you have to understand and know is that, in Japan & thailand and all those other parts is that full custom body work is dirt cheap compared to what would cost us here in the states a fortune! 
In the US we have to deal w/ custom, shipping charges and crazy paint cost VS in Japan the price of kits and paint is virtually nothing. Also, alot of the cars you see out there, the owners own or are a part of a shop/paint shop where they can do all or most of the work them selves.
 
As far as platforming goes, though, I think if enough thought, planning & money is put into it, you can pull off almost any non-traditional platform cars......ALMOST!
 
 
 
***Also wanted to add that it's not uncommon to see multiple people (friends/clubs/family) contribute to a build VS I think here in the states it's usually all on the owner to fund the builds[/QUOTE]

yeah. parts are cheap in japan...however labor is not by any means. trust me, thats why i did all my own shit over there. just to repair a bumper was like 400 bucks. without paint. compare that to back home in SC at a resto shop it was 150 bucks primered. 

cost of parts and awareness of the style is the main thing. it is just not known in america at all