Adjustable control arms *brainstorming*

So I've been struggling with my rear fitment, and after two days I came to the conclusion that I need more camber. For rear of the GS there are adjustable upper and lower arms etc. available, but they cost a tad too much for my liking. 

What I'm after: is to pull the upper portion of the wheel into the fender well, so I don't need adjustable lower arms, adjustable UCA should suffice. But the over priced Japanese UCA's don't offer much adjusting, only +/-2 deg.

The stock UCA's are aluminum, so modifying them is kinda out of the question. So I gotta make my own custom arms. Going through SPC's site I found all the specialty parts needed for this, but I'm going to try source them locally before ordering abroad. 

Few questions have spurred to my mind:
- what kinda stress forces does the rear uca have to tolerate? 
- depending on the stress, what's the material requirements for the arm?
- obviously I'm gonna use steel pipe as the "frame", but how thick, 5mm wall or what?
- then the adjustable "sleeve" etc., how thick should that be, a M22 threaded rod and sleeve would suffice?

Lets get the [SIZE=2]ball[/SIZE] rolling[U],[/U][SIZE=1] [s] 'coz if I can make a DIY guide out of this, then it would be some help to the community.[/s][/SIZE] =)
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Okay so I pussed out and ordered a set of already adjustable arms, and because of the design I can easily modify them if needed. Plus they were a steal, 215$ a pair, so no real reason to even bother making my own. I calculated that it would cost at least 150$ for the materials... :shrug:

I have been building Lowrider hydraulic cars since 1995.  Custom arms would not be that hard to make. I usually use 1/4" steel for front upper control arms on the gm cars. they handle the stress of hopping so I think it would be just fine. Plus it would be bad ass if you had your own custom arms. Try summit or jegs and you can get the weld in threaded rod ends that fit into the end of the pipe you want to use. Then they have "heims" joints that are like a swivel ball mount to make mounting ends. I'm not familiar with your suspension but I hope it points you in the right direction. They even sell kits that have the parts I mentioned above. 

Pete.

3/4" rod ends should handle all the stress you could put at them. 
.5"-.75" DOM should be plenty strong with a .25" wall

look up rodendsupply.com they have a catalog with everything you would need to make them.

[QUOTE=COPPERSHOT;401809]I have been building Lowrider hydraulic cars since 1995.  Custom arms would not be that hard to make. I usually use 1/4" steel for front upper control arms on the gm cars. they handle the stress of hopping so I think it would be just fine. Plus it would be bad ass if you had your own custom arms. Try summit or jegs and you can get the weld in threaded rod ends that fit into the end of the pipe you want to use. Then they have "heims" joints that are like a swivel ball mount to make mounting ends. I'm not familiar with your suspension but I hope it points you in the right direction. They even sell kits that have the parts I mentioned above. 

Pete.[/QUOTE]

Any pics of ones you have made?

This thread has some good pointers in a DIY fashion.

[url]http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?t=16355[/url]

[url]http://www.traildriven.com/2009/04/poor-boy-fab-shop-custom-lower-control-arms/[/url]

So it's time to resurrect this mofo. I came to the conclusion that I need to modify my front lower arms to increase clearance and camber. But one thing still puzzles me: if I mod my FLCA's to be adjustable will I need to modify my tension arms as well? Need to know this before I start ordering the needed bits:shrug:

I'm not willing to pay that much to get these:
[URL="http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www.t-demand.jp/products/proarm_t01.html&usg=ALkJrhiiLAkUw_m0VKCQzeGT5Hld-DAsvw"]T-Demand arms[/URL]

So I'm gonna follow Charles' example: 
[IMG]http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/71542_998985572801_6028305_52080559_423015_n.jpg[/IMG]

if your in a GS; studio, figs, should have some arms for you

[QUOTE=Juzzo;427732]So it's time to resurrect this mofo. I came to the conclusion that I need to modify my front lower arms to increase clearance and camber. But one thing still puzzles me: if I mod my FLCA's to be adjustable will I need to modify my tension arms as well? Need to know this before I start ordering the needed bits:shrug:

I'm not willing to pay that much to get these:
[URL="http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www.t-demand.jp/products/proarm_t01.html&usg=ALkJrhiiLAkUw_m0VKCQzeGT5Hld-DAsvw"]T-Demand arms[/URL]

So I'm gonna follow Charles' example: 
[IMG]http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/71542_998985572801_6028305_52080559_423015_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

nice, haven't seen that photo in a while hahaha.

i don't know about your front suspension, but on the Q45 you need adjustable tension rods when you start messing with camber to adjust caster back to something reasonable. otherwise the wheel won't be centered in the wheel well, which looks weird. the other issue that limits the amount of negative camber you can run is the length of your tie rods, which adjusts for toe. we ran out of thread on the tie rods before the LCAs ran out of thread for camber.

I also am in the same boat, with the only arms for demon camber available from T-Demand as linked above and 326 Power. They also have a lot more, higher spring rates, arms, shortened knuckles, full service for suspension bits. 
 
[IMG]http://www.326power.co.jp/pic-labo/llimg/P1010230.jpg[/IMG]
 
[URL]http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.326power.co.jp%2F&act=url[/URL]

[QUOTE=BLKVIP;427737]if your in a GS; studio, figs, should have some arms for you[/QUOTE]
They should only carry upper arms... I already have adjustable uppers front&back for my Aristo. And now I need the lower ones to get to my desired goal =)



[QUOTE=cheez80;427777]nice, haven't seen that photo in a while hahaha.

i don't know about your front suspension, but on the Q45 you need adjustable tension rods when you start messing with camber to adjust caster back to something reasonable. otherwise the wheel won't be centered in the wheel well, which looks weird. the other issue that limits the amount of negative camber you can run is the length of your tie rods, which adjusts for toe. we ran out of thread on the tie rods before the LCAs ran out of thread for camber.[/QUOTE]
Yep this is the answer I'm after, 'cuz I know that every change affects your geometry but looking at how the tension rods are set up I just can't figure out if their adjustability is essential :shrug:

Here is a BUP:
[IMG]http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/diag_AF7HBt.png[/IMG]

Oh and I know that I'm gonna need to increase the length of my tie rod ends, and I'm already on it. Noticed that when I notched my FLCA mounting points, and now they are threaded in only about 4 turns =)


[QUOTE=Mr.Doback;427783]I also am in the same boat, with the only arms for demon camber available from T-Demand as linked above and 326 Power. They also have a lot more, higher spring rates, arms, shortened knuckles, full service for suspension bits. 
 
[IMG]http://www.326power.co.jp/pic-labo/llimg/P1010230.jpg[/IMG]
 
[URL]http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.326power.co.jp%2F&act=url[/URL][/QUOTE]
Yeah both are super nice, but I just can't justify spending 10-15k for just adjustable arms/links/knuckles etc. if it's possible to source out similar parts and building kits for DIY arms for only a grand or two :thelaw:

Thats what I opted to do. Myself and selah777 sent stock arms down to a fabricator in Florida. I sent him the Nagisa's/T-demand/326 style arms so he could get an idea of what needs to be done. 

I am hoping this ends up being a much cheaper alternative and once we have them installed, we can consider keeping the jig and offering them out to the 30 celsior community. 

I have been trying to find more information, however it seems as though 30 celsior fronts do not need aftermarket tierods as most of the builds in japan with -11* or so have been only utilizing the upper arms.....I can't confirm, but that seems to be the case.

Why not use camber adapters and retain the stock adjustment vs. adjustable FLCAs? 2GS has the advantage of having a bolt on LBJ, which can be spaced out, vs. the Y33 which is press in.

I need upper adjustment to fit my wheels. 

I am also planning to notch my control arm mounting points for a little more adjustment, does anyone have a specific tool they use? I was planning to use a dremel with one of round sanding bits.

I have 1.5" of clearance needed, unless I decide to pull my fenders, which I am not sure on yet. 

Hopefully I will have progress pics sooner than later on the arms.

[QUOTE=Mr.Doback;427862]I need upper adjustment to fit my wheels. 

I am also planning to notch my control arm mounting points for a little more adjustment, does anyone have a specific tool they use? I was planning to use a dremel with one of round sanding bits.

I have 1.5" of clearance needed, unless I decide to pull my fenders, which I am not sure on yet. 

Hopefully I will have progress pics sooner than later on the arms.[/QUOTE]

Use what ever you got at hand, I used a dremel and an air grinder and a drill to notch mine. Didn't achieve much extra camber (2 or 3 degrees) and I could only widen the hole about 10-15mm's....

[IMG]http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb327/Lord_Juzzo/HPIM5006.jpg[/IMG]

Biggest problem was getting the orig. adjustment "stoppers" off that were stapled in =)

bumping this thread back up for more info. :biggthumpup:

Adjustable front lower arms to come... diy style yo =)
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As soon as the paycheck comes so I can order the joints etc.

Fuck don't have the joints yet...
But any gurus out there who might know precisely what kinda metal Toyota(Lexus) uses in their suspension components? More specifically all the bits that are cast steel... like the steering knuckles, front/rear lower control arms etc... I bet the same shit was used in a variety of models/parts between the 80's and to date.

Just trying to figure out what kinda filler rods to get to my buddy who'll tig weld my FLCA's. He's got a few cerium(?) rods or sum special multi-use rods but apparently they cost like a 800$ per kg, so I'm trying to find a cheaper alternative (more precise rod type for the Toyota cast steel). Any knowledge out there?

He said he might be able to use standard "black" rods (?), but without guarantee that they'd hold the stress... and he doesn't wanna kill me =)

I used SPC sliding ball joints on a s2000, and got stupid as fuck camber on it. The car's front wheels were sticking out 2inches, and I got it to fit all the way under the fender. Just needed a mild roll if he was going to dump it. but rolled it more to be dumped and turn lock to lock with very little rubbing.

I would hit up SPC, see if the make, and if they dont, they might have a generic one you can get them to sell you to your specs. After looking at this.. I want them on my Q. its a easy top bolt you do like a 4 bolt camber top hat. So you can Oni one day, or be flush the next or both etc

Disclaimer I am not a SPC rep.. LOL if you want them.. pm me if they wont send to you for a weird reason.

edit with pics
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/DrifterXL01/Work%20pics/Picture013001.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/DrifterXL01/Work%20pics/Picture024001.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/public/6Oeplkhz9OtT24ZEFA_h47LkpoSBkMzhzKKKOLeYZOF0UvSSdxUzOUeoSSBYo9AtUtQiB_i5mX0SukR6CzZNSxUQytxB_48dEbA_3CjtXG37sdvTVBue2yGT5lBhsl8E_Va9MMfUxXQa3LBrBA_n3450bthl5cg00DrCpIxHN_M_6_YFTr5KmQ[/IMG]

Dude far ahead... already got SPC UCA's that are notched for more -camber and my lower arm mounting points are notched as well. 2morrow I'll go to my local hardware store and see if they got weldable threaded studs and tube adapters. Gonna space the front lower arms out 2-3" =)

How much camber are you lookin for? Lol

Around -15* front to back =)

put the ball joint on the bottom too lol

Update:
Ok guys, now the arms are finally done! I used M20 (13/16") hard extension nuts and bolts for the adjustment. I also cut/grinded everything in an angle to get the strongest weld seem. This is a comparison of oem and my "battle version" FLCA, just tack welded by yours truly =)

[URL="http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183471_353832294709846_746683752_n.jpg"][IMG]http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183471_353832294709846_746683752_n.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

And here're the finished pieces, which were "professionally" TIG welded with "high end" cerium rods by my homeboy. Should handle the abuse, at least the welds should, same rods were used when modifying the teams drift Supra's steering knuckles. Now just need to clean and paint em before bolting em up. Should give me a pretty nice amount of adjustability for the front :biggthumpup:

[URL="http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/486075_393346787425063_1071262272_n.jpg"][IMG]http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/486075_393346787425063_1071262272_n.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL="http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/207768_393346960758379_1715948533_n.jpg"][IMG]http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/207768_393346960758379_1715948533_n.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

kinda low-tech, but it should get the job done.

Yeah I know, but this just the 1st version. Reason why I decided to do these this way was that I didn't just yet want to deal with the tension rods.
In the future I'm planning to build completely custom FLCA's and tension rods with replacable heim joints. With these I can start to find out how much adjustment I would really need.

if you would have done it the same way with a double adjuster it would have been adjustable on car and had a greater range. then a heim just to clean it up and it would be legit.

Thanks for the proposition, I'll keep it in mind. Might be the way to go when the bushings need to be replaced.

you would want to do it on the outer end so that the other mounting points stay in the correct position. it would be kinda bulky, but since you're going forextreme camber it shouldn't be an issue. you would use a threaded sleeve like what you have, a l/r threaded bushing, and a heim joint. that way it would expand/contract with the turn of the bushing.