Air Lift struts?

Hey guys, I have a couple of questions.  I just made a DIY on Air Lift's Easy Street struts for the Gen 1 Scion xB.  I am very familiar with air options for the Scion line, but I have limited knowledge when it comes to other cars that would be on this site.  Does Air Lift offer a sleeve style replacement strut for any of the other cars on here?  Would the DIY even be worth posting?

Thanks,
Joe

afaik the only air lift products vip cats have used are the custom builder air struts. write ups are never a bad thing though.

Post it...

Ok guys, thanks.  I posted up in the DIY.  Hope it helps someone.

[URL="http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?p=401927#post401927"]http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?p=401927#post401927[/URL]

Is that a dyi I how to replace a blown sleeved bag? If someone provided a Dyi on how to build a air strut with the sleeved bag that would really be helpful!

[QUOTE=whitej47;401908]Hey guys, I have a couple of questions.  I just made a DIY on Air Lift's Easy Street struts for the Gen 1 Scion xB.  I am very familiar with air options for the Scion line, but I have limited knowledge when it comes to other cars that would be on this site.  Does Air Lift offer a sleeve style replacement strut for any of the other cars on here?  Would the DIY even be worth posting?

Thanks,
Joe[/QUOTE]

Scrap it.. you will run into issue down the road.. Its not the best set up for the scions..

I've driven a gen 1xb with our kit on it all over hell and back.  Actually coast to coast in the under powered gem 3 times.  Multiple trips from So Cal to Washington, etc.    My rabbit has been coast to coast 5 times this year.   Not sure when I'll run into an issue, but I've got 73000 some odd miles on the rabbit kit, and my xb sittin shy 50000 miles on the kit.  

If your interested in building your own front struts I have all the stuff to build it lower than what we offer as a bolt on for scion and lower than any kit anyone else builds as an off the shelf.  Its just up to the end user to make the car itself have the ability to hit the ground.  

If you have any questions just let me know.  I've been building these things for 10+ years.  The first 2 pics below are some struts I built for a G35(tried a sleeve set-up and ended up going bellows), and the bottom pic is the front of a WRX kit I built awhile back.  

[IMG]http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz132/airliftcompany/universal%20stuff/IMG_2092.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz132/airliftcompany/universal%20stuff/IMG_2091.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz132/airliftcompany/universal%20stuff/IMG_1492.jpg[/IMG]

nice

We tried your systems here in Hawaii.. it lasted only 3 months the front struts.. It also made knocking noises.. and that rubber on the top mount keeps riping.. after 2 tows back to the shop.. we decided not to use air lift any more.. there rear for the xb is top notch.. but the fronts have to be redesigned. after we replace it with the Forworks air strut there was no knocking noises and it went just as low as the air lift struts and we didnt have any issues with it after. 

Here is a pic from that other topic.. with i beleive is the same on going issue.. Not the rubber rips and you told me when i meet you guys last year at spocom your fixed the problem in which its still happening.. 

[IMG]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/szell001/ES%20strut%20repair/DSC01292.jpg[/IMG]

The digital air managemnt is anouther long storie.. that thing doenst even comapre to accuair.. your guys setup does all kinds of funky things.. and than the digital read out went bad twice. than it burned the ECU... our customer was stuck.. 

You guys are quick to warranty but never solve the issues. 

Im not here to bash anyone product but tell the truth.. there are many other Scion owners that have the same complaints. 

[QUOTE=Jesse@AirLift;410117]I've driven a gen 1xb with our kit on it all over hell and back.  Actually coast to coast in the under powered gem 3 times.  Multiple trips from So Cal to Washington, etc.    My rabbit has been coast to coast 5 times this year.   Not sure when I'll run into an issue, but I've got 73000 some odd miles on the rabbit kit, and my xb sittin shy 50000 miles on the kit.  

If your interested in building your own front struts I have all the stuff to build it lower than what we offer as a bolt on for scion and lower than any kit anyone else builds as an off the shelf.  Its just up to the end user to make the car itself have the ability to hit the ground.  

If you have any questions just let me know.  I've been building these things for 10+ years.  The first 2 pics below are some struts I built for a G35(tried a sleeve set-up and ended up going bellows), and the bottom pic is the front of a WRX kit I built awhile back.  

[IMG]http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz132/airliftcompany/universal%20stuff/IMG_2092.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz132/airliftcompany/universal%20stuff/IMG_2091.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz132/airliftcompany/universal%20stuff/IMG_1492.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

No need to hide the truth 808.  I said it all over the scion forums.  We had an issue with a supplier for the rubber inserts we used in our top caps.  No need to hide anything.  We contacted as many of the customers we could about the recall, and told our dealers to do the same. 
 
I couldn't tell you about the 1000+ kits we sold last year that haven't had this issue.  Hell yeah we are quick to jump on the warranty.  We are a huge company and it only seems right.  We will also be here forever, not like some small fly by night manufacturers I see popping up everywhere.  

No need to hide anything at all.  I am here to bag the world and that is pretty much what I am going to do.  New kits for lexus, BMW, Nissan, honda etc... all on the way.   

Again dude, not worried about stating we had an issue with some materials in our top caps and we have the problem taken care of.  If you know of any other problems let me know, I'll get it handled for you or whoever. 

Jesse Jenson
[email]jjenson@airliftcompany.com[/email]
517-927-9101

you told us yes your resigned the upper mount but when you sent us the new replacement it was of the same design.. we reinstalled it giving it a second chance and yet the same thing happend within months and the Rattle noise was still there. and than again we have to tow the car back to the shop in which you guys dont pick up the cost. So after 2 times and u happy with the product becuase of reliabilty issues. its just sitting on the side right now. 

IS there anything we you can do for us besides sending a repacment top mount.

We also had an issue with your digital controller.. in anouther car. THe Previa did everything you told us but still the same issues with the digital read out going off and on and the presets not working and doing all kinds of funky stuffs.. than the brain frying. Sent the guy a replacement and same thing again.. since than replaced with biasic stuffs and not one problem for over 2 years. 

We are not the only guys complaining about your products here in HAwaii and the world.. Even the guys at STS808 are having issues. and DMC here in hawaii have problems... 

Here is the STS808 car that just had issue with your digital ride control.. thin read the wrong pressure so mashed up his fender.. he is redoing his air managemnt now with Acuair.. 

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/eight08customs/helluvarides%20features/Spocom%20HAwaii%202011/IMG_0873.jpg[/IMG]





[QUOTE=Jesse@AirLift;411855]No need to hide the truth 808.  I said it all over the scion forums.  We had an issue with a supplier for the rubber inserts we used in our top caps.  No need to hide anything.  We contacted as many of the customers we could about the recall, and told our dealers to do the same. 
 
I couldn't tell you about the 1000+ kits we sold last year that haven't had this issue.  Hell yeah we are quick to jump on the warranty.  We are a huge company and it only seems right.  We will also be here forever, not like some small fly by night manufacturers I see popping up everywhere.  

No need to hide anything at all.  I am here to bag the world and that is pretty much what I am going to do.  New kits for lexus, BMW, Nissan, honda etc... all on the way.   

Again dude, not worried about stating we had an issue with some materials in our top caps and we have the problem taken care of.  If you know of any other problems let me know, I'll get it handled for you or whoever. 

Jesse Jenson
[email]jjenson@airliftcompany.com[/email]
517-927-9101[/QUOTE]

We are still using this upper mount.  Just changed the materials in the rubber for the top cap.  With the new materials being used we haven't been seeing any issues.  Some of the new products we are releasing now include pillow ball uppers or retention of the factory upper strut mount.  We are making progress with new designs to better fit the performance market.  We will make it back to the scion world with some new products soon enough, being that we aren't hearing or seeing anything about having more issues with this upper mount I see no reason for change.  We started machining the bearings in house instead of having them cast.  This makes for tighter tolerances and takes care of the low speed rattle sound being heard.

Yes you can do what I do with most of my custom builds as a solution.  You have the option of building your own struts using our universal kits. This is where you can choose a bag running a solid top cap. adjustable or non adjustable strut.  Different valving options, etc...  I run solid top caps and just machine bushings to fit our strut shaft to whatever pillow ball upper mount is needed for the vehicle.  It's actually easier than it sounds or looks.  I'm pretty sure some of the build pics I've seen on the scion forums are yours and look bad as hell so I am figuring you should have this down.
 
Or you can just have the bags switched out at the beginning of the order to a solid top cap and provide your own upper mounts be it stock or the pillow.  We literally have all the parts to bag whatever in about any fashion possible.  

Sorry to hear about your digital controller woes and about the other shops seeing the same issues.  I and my customers now have used thousands of these things over the years. I have had a couple of units fail out of the box or weeks down the road. And the other 98% are either still in the same vehicle or moved into another. 

Generally I see the failure with installs on these units.  Usually a voltage issue.  Most guys I saw wiring these were wiring them to the remote wire off their amp or a 12v wire with low amperage or  a wire acting as ign.1 and not an acc.  It was either enough voltage to turn on the unit and get it to work, burn up, or make the screen flicker and only some buttons would work or not work at all.  

The ride in the pic looks like it suffers the same fitment issues as about 50% of the VW's my kits are on.  I always thought it was a status thing when guys parked like that or were just balls out rolling around low enough to  blast the quarter.  It def sucks though.

Aside of my job now I've been a builder for years.  I don't know how to say after bitching for so long and going from product to product in my years every product I used has a flaw somewhere.  There are those guys that swear up and down that their product is the whip and then there are the guys that think the same thing is shit and talk up what they have and the chain goes on.   What I ended up doing was staying with the companies that took care of me and my needs when I needed to take care of my customer.   

I don't really know how to make you happy but I don't really know what else to say.  I as a person just figured out shit happens to the best of us a few years ago and was insanely pissed.  I had to answer to customers that wanted to have more than there money back.  I was out money, it wasn't freakin cool at all.  In the end it just came down to who is gonna take care of me when it really comes down to it.  I've been given the runaround and I've been given the royal treatment. I'd rather get the royal treatment and do what ever to take care of my customer, than get the run around and have to pass that on to my customer. 

Products change and they get better or worse.  We are working on the better of it,  we just haven't made it back to Scion yet.  Believe me I am doing all I can to get some new stuff out for the Scion guys. I still have my gen 1xb and love it.  We just need to get some other kits of the table and I'll be back at it.

[QUOTE=Jesse@AirLift;411924]

Sorry to hear about your digital controller woes and about the other shops seeing the same issues.  I and my customers now have used thousands of these things over the years. I have had a couple of units fail out of the box or weeks down the road. And the other 98% are either still in the same vehicle or moved into another. 

Generally I see the failure with installs on these units.  Usually a voltage issue.  Most guys I saw wiring these were wiring them to the remote wire off their amp or a 12v wire with low amperage or  a wire acting as ign.1 and not an acc.  It was either enough voltage to turn on the unit and get it to work, burn up, or make the screen flicker and only some buttons would work or not work at all. 

[/QUOTE]

I never did that.. i seen other shops do that hooking up air to the stereo wires, wronge wires and what not and I just shake my head. Im the guy that fixes all that types of installs. I tried working with you guys over the phone and did everything you told me to do.. including adding a relay. Still the same issues.. 

Everyone says I installed it worng. but when it was working it did the job lifting and lowering but it was never 100% at the ride hight.. 

We are asked about your product very ofter but we cant offer something that we wouldnt install in our own cars. We gave it a try in our shop scion and it FAILED on the FREEWAY and lucky no one was hurt and it was us that it happended to, just imagine if it was a customer of ours  Or keep having to do warranty work at our cost. I hope you understand where im coming from.. Right now we are just stuck with the bad expreiance with the scion strut. 

WE had our enginerers look at your upper mount he advised us the fix would be making the surface area of the rubber wider so the movement when you turn isnt as extreme as the size you have it now. 

SO why does everyone complain of a knocking noise.. I have asked VW guys and Scions guys and they all say the same thing about knocking noises.

Go coils, wont have issues :biggthumpup: haha

Maybe this is a good place to ask.   I bought some air struts about a year ago and have some issues with turning.  In cold weather when turning, my drivers side strut starts to lose pressure (noticably, you can watch the gauge go down).   Is this a result of the rubber on that top mount possibly?   It only happens in turns.

[QUOTE=ScottyTuned;412282]Maybe this is a good place to ask.   I bought some air struts about a year ago and have some issues with turning.  In cold weather when turning, my drivers side strut starts to lose pressure (noticably, you can watch the gauge go down).   Is this a result of the rubber on that top mount possibly?   It only happens in turns.[/QUOTE]

thats what happend with the struts we had 2 times! ON THE FREE WAY

Did they blow out or go slowly down like mine?   I guess that makes me really nervous if theyre gonna pop while driving.    It started last fall and I've been working to diagnose it since then.    Ive had Charlie/Steve from ScionPro try to help on it, but it seemed like nothing was completely sure on my models.   I didnt know others were having the exact same problem.  Is there a newer version of strut I need then?

what happend is he was driving and when he came to a big long turn on the freeway he noticed the pressure dropping slowly than stopped so he pumped it up.. when he got of the freeway and turned it went down again.. So he makes it to my working place and we noticed it wasnt really leaking down when the wheel was staight. so turned the wheel to to look in fender well we heard a leak.. comming from the top.. sprayed the top mount rubber and it was leaking... So called the TOW TRUCK.. 

Air lift was really quick on getting us a new bag.. Same time we had our enginers look at the design .. and told us it will only break again.. but we were told they had fixed the issue  using differnt rubber.. so everyone deserves a second chance so we installed it again.. worked for a few months than the same thing again with the revised top so called plate. Again TOW truck.. 

We decided to not even bother getting a new part just put our product in and no issues over 2 years.. and it didint make that knocking noises. 

So in all awsome service warranty there product but we were still out of the cost of the towing charges 2x. .. 

What gets us, is most guys dont know and first time buyers and dont know what the differances in kits are.. We tried  all popular brands and installed it all and tested it.. I wouldnt suggest there product to any of our customers.. becuase we would be fixing it all the time and huge saftey concern. 

There is alot of guys in Hawaii with there product that come to us for advice and whats going on with there front struts.. we just tell them dont waste there time and money and to replace with a differant brand.

[QUOTE=ScottyTuned;412290]Did they blow out or go slowly down like mine?   I guess that makes me really nervous if theyre gonna pop while driving.    It started last fall and I've been working to diagnose it since then.    Ive had Charlie/Steve from ScionPro try to help on it, but it seemed like nothing was completely sure on my models.   I didnt know others were having the exact same problem.  Is there a newer version of strut I need then?[/QUOTE]


By the way Scion Pro is now selling AirREX.. that is availble with Sleave type bags..

I see.  I appreciate your feedback and help on this Marshall.  I was having a lot of problems diagnosing it, and not many could help too much.  I got new bags from ES and was told to put those on instead of what is currently on.   Is that what happened to you as well?     I havent had the time to put the new replacement bags onto the old struts, but I guess that makes me hesitant if it will happen again anyway.

[QUOTE=ScottyTuned;412514]I see.  I appreciate your feedback and help on this Marshall.  I was having a lot of problems diagnosing it, and not many could help too much.  I got new bags from ES and was told to put those on instead of what is currently on.   Is that what happened to you as well?     I havent had the time to put the new replacement bags onto the old struts, but I guess that makes me hesitant if it will happen again anyway.[/QUOTE]

same exact thing and your not the only one..

Scotty, I bet it is the fitting you are using.  The only difference between the stationary strut and when the wheel is turned is the fitting actually changes location, while the "foot" portion of the strut is stationary since it is threaded thru with those 2x19mm bolts(camber).  IIRC you bought the fronts from ScionPro and they probably sent you airlift fittings?  1/4" npt X 1/4" ptc right? It's either that or you bought the plastic ones from gaugemag with the management kit...

Those fittings AirLift uses are only good for so long.  Once the seal on the collar is moved enough, it begins to leak **ONLY WITH FLEXING**.  I can't tell you how many times I have been in front of a leaky xB with 4 corner ES bags and found that the owner is using the fittings supplied with the kit.  Once pressure is placed on the pivoting neck of the fitting, it forms a gap and air leaks out.  

I bet this is what is happening to your struts(maybe everyone's for that matter).  When you are turning, pressure is placed on the line and it is causing the fitting to flex at the neck.  The ES strut is a solid design as far as the rotating top hat goes.  It CAN'T separate from the strut piston...so you know that part isn't leaking...it would mean your top hat is loose and that simply can't be the case because air would be leaking out all of the time.  

I purchased UA fittings(not sure of the brand they stock, all brass tho) and I have yet to have one leak as a first time install on my car....since TORC.  I mean you just can't compare.  Ppl bitch about paying $8 a fitting, but when you use them, you'll know what I mean.  You should also add some slack to the front lines.  I never actually saw you fronts installed, but I bet this is the culprit.  I ran my lines through the firewall and the shock tower, so when you turn, the line is being pulled horizontally, not at an angle.  I would swap fittings, use red loctite, and add some slack.  That is all I can think of.

PS I am going to UA later this week to pick up some fittings.  If you need me to grab you x2 of the 1/4" ones let me know and I'll ship them out!

has anyone ever used air shocks?

Its not the fitting leaking.. it the upper strut brng and bushing thats tearing.. Airift admited there is an on going issue. 

[IMG]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/szell001/ES%20strut%20repair/DSC01292.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=whitej47;413186]Scotty, I bet it is the fitting you are using.  The only difference between the stationary strut and when the wheel is turned is the fitting actually changes location, while the "foot" portion of the strut is stationary since it is threaded thru with those 2x19mm bolts(camber).  IIRC you bought the fronts from ScionPro and they probably sent you airlift fittings?  1/4" npt X 1/4" ptc right? It's either that or you bought the plastic ones from gaugemag with the management kit...

Those fittings AirLift uses are only good for so long.  Once the seal on the collar is moved enough, it begins to leak **ONLY WITH FLEXING**.  I can't tell you how many times I have been in front of a leaky xB with 4 corner ES bags and found that the owner is using the fittings supplied with the kit.  Once pressure is placed on the pivoting neck of the fitting, it forms a gap and air leaks out.  

I bet this is what is happening to your struts(maybe everyone's for that matter).  When you are turning, pressure is placed on the line and it is causing the fitting to flex at the neck.  The ES strut is a solid design as far as the rotating top hat goes.  It CAN'T separate from the strut piston...so you know that part isn't leaking...it would mean your top hat is loose and that simply can't be the case because air would be leaking out all of the time.  

I purchased UA fittings(not sure of the brand they stock, all brass tho) and I have yet to have one leak as a first time install on my car....since TORC.  I mean you just can't compare.  Ppl bitch about paying $8 a fitting, but when you use them, you'll know what I mean.  You should also add some slack to the front lines.  I never actually saw you fronts installed, but I bet this is the culprit.  I ran my lines through the firewall and the shock tower, so when you turn, the line is being pulled horizontally, not at an angle.  I would swap fittings, use red loctite, and add some slack.  That is all I can think of.

PS I am going to UA later this week to pick up some fittings.  If you need me to grab you x2 of the 1/4" ones let me know and I'll ship them out![/QUOTE]

I have withheld from commenting as of yet, but if you sit and think about what you are suggesting, that simply cannot be the case.  The tear that I pictured was a massive leak that is an "all or nothing" event.  The car wouldn't be able to hold air for even thirty seconds.  If anyone was having that leak, they'd know it.  You have to be able to drive to feasibly get to said "curve in the road" and with the redundant pic you continue to post, no driving can be had.  

This has already been hashed over in many threads here and other places on the internet, most of the problems you guys were experiencing were due to installation errors.  I say that with all due respect, but do we really need to belabor the point?  The more you type it doesn't make it necessarily true...