G50 with S13/S14 Front Suspension

Since there has been some talk of using S-Chassis front suspension on a G50, and I had a set of S14 front suspension laying around I was curious and test fit it this weekend. 

As stated in previous threads everything bolts on save for the upper shock mount. HOWEVER, I wouldn't reccomend running this suspension unless you are prepaired to run -13+ degrees of negative camber up front. 

There's no way around it unless you run a S13 front LCA which would yield about 1.5 degrees less.

Also, the caster is completely fucked up. This issue might be able to be fixed, but I didn't do much digging b/c it wasn't something I wanted to run.  

Personally I have no intention of running that up front, so I won't be using it. I'll stick with he third arm set up even though it'll be more work, in the end I think the car will flow better.  Any questions feel free to ask I'll be happy to answer if I can.

so once you put the suspension on its an automatic -13 camber?

[QUOTE=Dranom;440721]so once you put the suspension on its an automatic -13 camber?[/QUOTE]

-13 is a guess, I didn't have a camber gauge that went past -10. 

Also, I did this over the weekend as well:

[img]http://www.dressupbolts.com/wp-content/gallery/q45-build/front-brake.jpg[/img]


Rears are going on this weekend :)

damn the brembos look really good! i'm jealous lol.

Yeah. Those brakes are nice! What car did it came from or is it a kit?

[QUOTE=Dranom;440751]Yeah. Those brakes are nice! What car did it came from or is it a kit?[/QUOTE]

It should be STI calipers with the conversion caliper bracket used on 240sx. iirc

[QUOTE=SIMPLE G50;440753]It should be STI calipers with the conversion caliper bracket used on 240sx. iirc[/QUOTE]

Close! They are actually EVO fronts and STI rears. Adapter bracket is correct but needs to be modified to fit correctly on a G50 with stock spindle.

nice! back to the OP, looking forward to the pictures. And when you're done with the test fit let me know. I'll be buy them. =)

looks good.  i believe cts-v brembos work as well

fuck it, why wouldnt not want to run neg 13 camber? so many try to achieve super neg camber, easiest way right there! haha

I wonder what it would do to the f50.. I have to get to this..

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;440888]fuck it, why wouldnt not want to run neg 13 camber? so many try to achieve super neg camber, easiest way right there! haha

I wonder what it would do to the f50.. I have to get to this..[/QUOTE]


Too many people in the US run -324817317254 degrees of camber on stock body/fenders just to "do it" because it's "hella flush" and it ends up looking retarded. CubanGS is one of the few that have pulled it off and it actually look decent. Most other just look like doo doo. 

I'd rather have the car flow correctly and everything work together with a decent amount of camber, but not so much that it's the only thing people see when they look at the car.

more details on exact setup used and measuring process please. this doesn't sound good at all.

[QUOTE=OG;440969]more details on exact setup used and measuring process please. this doesn't sound good at all.[/QUOTE]

You're the main reason I started this thread. I knew you weren't looking for that much camber. 

Exact setup is simply:

G50 Sway
S14 LCA
S14 Spindle 
S14 Apexi Coilover 
S14 Tension rod (Adjustable) 
S14 Upper Mount (I didn't re drill the shock tower, I simply lined one of the holes up and tightened the nut up enough to hold it in place).  

I used a camber gauge that maxed out at -10 degrees. It was maxed out. It looked really stupid, and I have no intention of perusing this option. 

So, I'll be shortening the thrid arm afterall and using these: 

[img]http://www.dressupbolts.com/wp-content/gallery/q45-build/100mediaimag0111.jpg[/img]

Any pictures with the S14 setup installed? Or did it basically look like deolio... Also nice pick up with the coilovers. Are those the Skyline R32 and what spring rates did you get?

I am not a big neg camber fan. But you make it sound like i am a camber nazi lol. 

I just say its great for anyone looking for a way to do it, since really, there isnt that many who do that to that chassis in particular her. AND it would be easy for them.

[QUOTE=SIMPLE G50;441004]Any pictures with the S14 setup installed? Or did it basically look like deolio... Also nice pick up with the coilovers. Are those the Skyline R32 and what spring rates did you get?[/QUOTE]

No pics man, sorry. I was in a bit of a rush I have zero time lately to work on this car it kinda sucks. I've had the brakes and coilovers for months now. 

Rates on the Swift Springs are 22K Front and 18K Rear, with valving to match. Shocks are 1.5" shorter than standard R32 coilovers and Springs are 5" instead of 7" Rears have helper springs which will hopefully help keep traction when navigating inclines and such (when stupid vlsd doesn't always work).  

What front lower mount did you use on your Fortunes?

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;441052]No pics man, sorry. I was in a bit of a rush I have zero time lately to work on this car it kinda sucks. I've had the brakes and coilovers for months now. 

Rates on the Swift Springs are 22K Front and 18K Rear, with valving to match. Shocks are 1.5" shorter than standard R32 coilovers and Springs are 5" instead of 7" Rears have helper springs which will hopefully help keep traction when navigating inclines and such (when stupid vlsd doesn't always work).  

What front lower mount did you use on your Fortunes?[/QUOTE]

Nice! Yea I also hate inclines too. I just turn off TCS and drive the angle faster lol. My front lower mounts are just bored out. Had to shave off about 3mm.

camber and caster depend on how you mount your camber plates and if you are willing to slot your shock towers. as they are now, i can either do positive camber/positive caster or negative camber/negative caster. if i rotate the plates clockwise will be pure caster adjustment. further clockwise i'll have negative caster/positive camber or positive caster/negative camber. and i already drilled the holes already off center so that there's already some extra negative caster for every setting. 

[IMG]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c400/mexfoodisgood/q45%20build/e7a3853e.jpg[/IMG]

if you're going for the oni-camber look and don't care about drivability this is definitely the way to go.

ideally i'd like my camber around -7 and caster at +5 for my drift setup. i plan on getting pbm pro flca/ten rod in the near future so i think that should be do-able...

i asked pbm about their lca setup and was told there was no positive range.

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;440991]

[IMG]http://www.dressupbolts.com/wp-content/gallery/q45-build/100mediaimag0111.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

So am i hearing caster issues...? If I would move forward with this conversion i would swap to S14 lower mounting bracket which will bolt on to the S14 knuckle and so forth. I also have the same coilovers that is shown in the picture and the bottom coilover is the fronts. The top mounts is basically fitted to the car. So with everything bolted up on the S14 conversion will there but be caster issues?

[QUOTE=OG;441377]i asked pbm about their lca setup and was told there was no positive range.[/QUOTE]

couldn't you just extend the tension rod to get more positive? or are they not long enough?

[QUOTE=SIMPLE G50;441392]So am i hearing caster issues...? If I would move forward with this conversion i would swap to S14 lower mounting bracket which will bolt on to the S14 knuckle and so forth. I also have the same coilovers that is shown in the picture and the bottom coilover is the fronts. The top mounts is basically fitted to the car. So with everything bolted up on the S14 conversion will there but be caster issues?[/QUOTE]

yeah there would be caster issues still. also, those coils aren't going to work on the front unless you want to be laying frame. you need a longer shock body and if those aren't inverted you'll probably snap or bend the piston. i suggest getting some inverted s14 front coilvers and mounting them like i did.

[QUOTE=deolio;441398]
yeah there would be caster issues still. also, those coils aren't going to work on the front unless you want to be laying frame. you need a longer shock body and if those aren't inverted you'll probably snap or bend the piston. i suggest getting some inverted s14 front coilvers and mounting them like i did.[/QUOTE]

No. 

The entire point of running s short stroke shock and short spring with a high spring rate is to be as low as possible. 

There's no way for the piston to bend or "snap" on the Third Arm set up because there is no movement on the upper mount like the s chassis set up (which is probably why you're having issues because the caster is fucked and hard to correct once you put S Chassis parts on). Because of the third arm design all the shock and spring do is move up and down, nothing else, nothing to bend or break. 

I will be shortening my third arm which will allow the car to be super low and hopefully have a decent ride. 

IMO (after test fitting) using S chassis parts on the G50 is kind of a hack and it would be very hard to do correctly, you would have to move the upper mount so much, the shock tower would have to be redesigned. Not only that, even if you got the upper mount right, you STILL have caster issues to deal with. It's not worth the trouble when the third arm is a better design in the first place.

[QUOTE=SIMPLE G50;441392]So am i hearing caster issues...? If I would move forward with this conversion i would swap to S14 lower mounting bracket which will bolt on to the S14 knuckle and so forth. I also have the same coilovers that is shown in the picture and the bottom coilover is the fronts. The top mounts is basically fitted to the car. So with everything bolted up on the S14 conversion will there but be caster issues?[/QUOTE]

Sorry I didn't reply to your pm sooner.. :( 

Yea, caster issues... and you can't just put S14 lower mounts on your current coilovers, unless you put S14 upper mounts on them too. You need the heim joint in the upper mount for S14 to work.

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;441426]No. 

The entire point of running s short stroke shock and short spring with a high spring rate is to be as low as possible. 

There's no way for the piston to bend or "snap" on the Third Arm set up because there is no movement on the upper mount like the s chassis set up (which is probably why you're having issues because the caster is fucked and hard to correct once you put S Chassis parts on). Because of the third arm design all the shock and spring do is move up and down, nothing else, nothing to bend or break. [/QUOTE]

i don't understand your point. i am aware of the purpose of running a short stroke shock and short spring... i'm just saying that if the entire length of the shock body is too short the car is going to be sitting on the frame. i tried re-using my dampers which were meant for a third member setup and only had 1" of the shock body threaded into the s14 lower mount and the oil pan was on the ground.

i am also aware that in a third arm setup there is no lateral stress put on the piston. thanks...

[QUOTE=deolio;441450]i don't understand your point. i am aware of the purpose of running a short stroke shock and short spring... i'm just saying that if the entire length of the shock body is too short the car is going to be sitting on the frame. i tried re-using my dampers which were meant for a third member setup and only had 1" of the shock body threaded into the s14 lower mount and the oil pan was on the ground.

i am also aware that in a third arm setup there is no lateral stress put on the piston. thanks...[/QUOTE]

My point is I don't have a VH in my car, and my oil pan is above the cross member. Why would the frame sitting 3/4" off the ground be a bad thing? It's not too short if the third arm is shortened.  Not to mention you're just guessing the shock body is too short, i don't recall seeing a measuring tape beside it. I've done my homework and taken my measurements. Thanks for the input, but you're wrong. 

This isn't my first rodeo, I'm aware what issues there might be which is why I choose to setup the suspension the way I did. It's also why I test fit the S14 parts since there was a lot of buzz about it working, but it ends up it doesn't work properly. 

Oh and if you'd like to see my setup working (notice the spring/shock length, and the shortened third arm):

[img]http://www.garage-freedom.com/img/gf_05_a4.jpg[/img]

i was referring to positive camber range on the pbm lca; meaning they can not be shortened, only lengthened.
 
by looking at the suspension, i think the caster could be adressed with a lower control arm that used a heim joint. a rubber bushing will deifnitely bind.

that being said this has been enough for me not to persue the s chassis option. doesn't look to be for me after all.

^ah that makes more sense. maybe i'll just shorten my lca's a bit.

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;441488]My point is I don't have a VH in my car, and my oil pan is above the cross member. Why would the frame sitting 3/4" off the ground be a bad thing? It's not too short if the third arm is shortened.  Not to mention you're just guessing the shock body is too short, i don't recall seeing a measuring tape beside it. I've done my homework and taken my measurements. Thanks for the input, but you're wrong. 

This isn't my first rodeo, I'm aware what issues there might be which is why I choose to setup the suspension the way I did. It's also why I test fit the S14 parts since there was a lot of buzz about it working, but it ends up it doesn't work properly.[/QUOTE]

umm i'm talking about using those coils for an s14 setup not the stock third arm... i have fortune coils on my miata which [B]appear[/B] to be about the same length as the ones pictured. my origonal dampers (that were meant for a third arm setup) were about 36cm long iirc and that was far too short for an [B]s14 setup[/B]. even if they were long enough for an [B]s14 setup[/B] the pistons would still probably bend/snap from the added stress.

i did as much research as i could before trying this shit, but without anyone trying it before there was no way to know. for what i want to do with the car it makes more sense for me to try and make this setup work than be stuck with a third member.

Haruguchi isn't running 13- camber on his. 

The pbm arms are pretty short to begin with aren't they?

[QUOTE=deolio;441522]^ah that makes more sense. maybe i'll just shorten my lca's a bit.



umm i'm talking about using those coils for an s14 setup not the stock third arm... i have fortune coils on my miata which [B]appear[/B] to be about the same length as the ones pictured. my origonal dampers (that were meant for a third arm setup) were about 36cm long iirc and that was far too short for an [B]s14 setup[/B]. even if they were long enough for an [B]s14 setup[/B] the pistons would still probably bend/snap from the added stress.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with that. 

Shortening the LCA's on an S14 set up is an option to reduce camber, but to keep the tension rod and sway bar position correct it would have to be shortened between the spindle and where the tension rod mounts. 

I presume the reason you are having issues with piston rod snapping is the caster? With the coilover being at such an akward angle I could see that being the issue.

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;441533]I presume the reason you are having issues with piston rod snapping is the caster? With the coilover being at such an akward angle I could see that being the issue.[/QUOTE]

probably a combination of camber, caster, weight, and the fact that the piston rods were only 1/2" in diameter. the inverted dampers i have now are fine.

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;440991]
So, I'll be shortening the thrid arm afterall and using these: 
[/QUOTE]

Nevermind, re-read the whole thread. Answered my own question.

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;440763]Close! They are actually EVO fronts and STI rears. Adapter bracket is correct but needs to be modified to fit correctly on a G50 with stock spindle.[/QUOTE]

How exactly do the brackets need to be modifed? I'm actually trying to buy a pair like right now form this website [URL]http://www.madparts.net/version-2-evo-89-to-nissan-240sx-brembo-caliper-conversion-br289240.html[/URL] lol theres 2 versions of the brackets out there 1 that requires you to shave the calipers to fit and the other doesnt. I'm just a little lost here hopefullly someone can help me out.