Air runner issue....this is fixable I think...

After reading through the last air runner thread, I decided to post this for my boy juan (Juan9285). I've been back and forth on the phone with him trying to get him some help. I just bought a used air runner kit due to everyone raving about their reliability. But this has definitely got me shook. Like I said in the last AR thread, anything can fail.  Szin is working with him to find a used bag and mount because $700 new is just nuts. 

If he was driving this  could have been ugly...... Hopefully AR does him right price wise. 


[IMG]http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv224/NYCwarrior/-2-2.jpg[/IMG]

I believe he said the bag is not punctured in anyway. Notice the ring which fell off at the bottom  which hold the bag from the inside.  This can be fixed, what you guy's  think? maybe using a hose clamp like this but smaller and some high end  adhesive. The only problem would probably be the inner clap cutting into  the rubber, but you can reinforce the rubber around the mounting  source. What you guys think????? 

[IMG]http://www.holley.com/data/products/pictures/medium900136ERL.jpg[/IMG]

He probably won't respond in this thread until AR gives him the collateral damage, but he can give more info than I can. We are not here to bash AR we are here to give this info to the community and get feed back. Juan sounds like he wants to get ride of his kit due to the possibility of happening 3 more times, and going UAS because the bags are cheaper. He has a 2004 lexus GS and bought the kit used. 

I really think we can solve this problem.

I think it should also be noted on who does the installs on the setups that are failing. Not making assumptions but majority of the few cases where the AR fails is in faulty installs and usually owner errors.
:shrug:

Either way that does suck and crazy to see and hope it gets worked out
Glad mine is holding up LOL!

Advise dont go UAS bags on the GS... either get that fixed or hit up Auto Fashion for airREX struts. 

Probably cheaper to get that fixed.. 

Dont use a hose clamp... that ring is crimped on. 

From experiance stuffs like this happens because poor installs shop or DIY and lack of experiance. 

and you mention you bought it used. Did that air runner manual also come with the struts.. The air runner instruction are very detailed and has lot of info and what to do and not to do.. for instance jacking up the car there is a certain way to do it. 

I have done many air runner installs new and used and non has ever failed and my first install its going on 5 years with not one issue. Even though we sell other brands.. Air Runner by far is still one the best kits but for a GS big price.  

[QUOTE=nar8ta;442491]After reading through the last air runner thread, I decided to post this for my boy juan (Juan9285). I've been back and forth on the phone with him trying to get him some help. I just bought a used air runner kit due to everyone raving about their reliability. But this has definitely got me shook. Like I said in the last AR thread, anything can fail.  Szin is working with him to find a used bag and mount because $700 new is just nuts. 

If he was driving this  could have been ugly...... Hopefully AR does him right price wise. 


[IMG]http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv224/NYCwarrior/-2-2.jpg[/IMG]

I believe he said the bag is not punctured in anyway. Notice the ring which fell off at the bottom  which hold the bag from the inside.  This can be fixed, what you guy's  think? maybe using a hose clamp like this but smaller and some high end  adhesive. The only problem would probably be the inner clap cutting into  the rubber, but you can reinforce the rubber around the mounting  source. What you guys think????? 

[IMG]http://www.holley.com/data/products/pictures/medium900136ERL.jpg[/IMG]

He probably won't respond in this thread until AR gives him the collateral damage, but he can give more info than I can. We are not here to bash AR we are here to give this info to the community and get feed back. Juan sounds like he wants to get ride of his kit due to the possibility of happening 3 more times, and going UAS because the bags are cheaper. He has a 2004 lexus GS and bought the kit used. 

I really think we can solve this problem.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;442493]I think it should also be noted on who does the installs on the setups that are failing. Not making assumptions but majority of the few cases where the AR fails is in faulty installs and usually owner errors.
:shrug:

Either way that does suck and crazy to see and hope it gets worked out
Glad mine is holding up LOL![/QUOTE]


I definitely hear you, I don't know a thing about air but will have to learn quick due to relipping my wheels and going AR and Accuair. 

Question, how can Juan's be an install error in the case of the bracket giving way. i can't speak in other cases but just looking at the pic, this makes no sense other than the bags being over filled. 

P, What do you think about the fix, do you think it's possible?

that would be my guess. too much psi....maybe along with jackin the car up in addition?

I can't speak on why it failed. There's jus too many guesses for that. Coulda been previous owner abuse, could've been the why it was handled or stored between transactions. I jus don't know how it was the system was handled between the 2 owners.

As far as the fix, I highly recommend fixing it the right way vs. the mcgyver make shift route. Better to have it down right. 

I've owned my kit for about 6 years. Daily it every day (My only car) and abuse the shit out of it by driving much lower than my current set is designed for. That being said, I have yet to have any issue like these that I'm hearing. Not saying it won't happen, jus saying 6 years, daily abused and still going....call me lucky I guess.

I now have the OG coil over set up to cater to my slammed driving needs and plan on selling my original set up to a friend of mine for very cheap but constantly worn him of the risk of buying my set up that I beat up on and often remind him that He'll probably want to rebuild it.

Airrunner isn't bullet proof by any long shot but when you compare it to UAS or alot of other bag setups, it's definitely more reliable and worth the money as if you were to build your own setup to better or like quality of AR.
:shrug:

[QUOTE=eight08customs;442498]Advise dont go UAS bags on the GS... either get that fixed or hit up Auto Fashion for airREX struts. 

Probably cheaper to get that fixed.. 

Dont use a hose clamp... that ring is crimped on. 

From experiance stuffs like this happens because poor installs shop or DIY and lack of experiance. 

and you mention you bought it used. Did that air runner manual also come with the struts.. The air runner instruction are very detailed and has lot of info and what to do and not to do.. for instance jacking up the car there is a certain way to do it. 

I have done many air runner installs new and used and non has ever failed and my first install its going on 5 years with not one issue. Even though we sell other brands.. Air Runner by far is still one the best kits but for a GS big price.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the response. This is not my set up.  I'm trying to avoid this happening  when i do do my install LOL and help a brother out. Using your logic your leaving no room for mechanic error at all. LOL just because you have never experience something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Many did not know about the AR bag rubbing issue on a GS until other have experienced it. Again I don't know as much as you but i'm wise enough to know yes an install error can occur, but yes premature failure can occur as well. Again thanks for your input. I will definitely comb through the manual for my install.    

Also I know about the rubbing issue with UAS, yes the brackets where not the total fix, but my boy has gotten them not to rub on BC coils. Something to do with mounting points, and cutting the end off the coil bracket and re-threading it.

[QUOTE=lowlyfey34;442511]that would be my guess. too much psi....maybe along with jackin the car up in addition?[/QUOTE]


Good question. What was the PSI when jacking the car up and how long was it suspended in the air for? You're only suppose to raise it so much as instructed by the AR manual. At a certain point the wait of the suspension and gravity from the car being suspend for x amount of time can cause that bracket to pull and possibly come loose
:shrug:

These are jus guesses though. W/o knowing full details, it's hard to speculate what exactly happened.

I would recommend hitting up Auto Fashion and see if they can help in any way. They supply and install many Air runner systems on a daily and are pretty knowledgeable when it comes to air suspension and have pretty much seen it all when it comes to any failures that you may face w/ airrunner

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;442512]I can't speak on why it failed. There's jus too many guesses for that. Coulda been previous owner abuse, could've been the why it was handled or stored between transactions. I jus don't know how it was the system was handled between the 2 owners.

As far as the fix, I highly recommend fixing it the right way vs. the mcgyver make shift route. Better to have it down right. 

I've owned my kit for about 6 years. Daily it every day (My only car) and abuse the shit out of it by driving much lower than my current set is designed for. That being said, I have yet to have any issue like these that I'm hearing. Not saying it won't happen, jus saying 6 years, daily abused and still going....call me lucky I guess.

I now have the OG coil over set up to cater to my slammed driving needs and plan on selling my original set up to a friend of mine for very cheap but constantly worn him of the risk of buying my set up that I beat up on and often remind him that He'll probably want to rebuild it.

Airrunner isn't bullet proof by any long shot but when you compare it to UAS or alot of other bag setups, it's definitely more reliable and worth the money as if you were to build your own setup to better or like quality of AR.
:shrug:[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind.... I went on the AR site and can't find a PDF of the manual. Anyone know where to find one?

[QUOTE=lowlyfey34;442511]that would be my guess. too much psi....maybe along with jackin the car up in addition?[/QUOTE]

Thanks bro, could this be gradual meaning it became worst as time went on and finally gave way?

Juan where you at we need more info? LOL

i would have to agree with pancakes .. my air runner holds up pretty good , my guess is that this was wear and tear .. i roll pretty low with my AR running at 40 psi on most days .. good luck and hope this gets sorted out :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;442515]Good question. What was the PSI when jacking the car up and how long was it suspended in the air for? You're only suppose to raise it so much as instructed by the AR manual. At a certain point the wait of the suspension and gravity from the car being suspend for x amount of time can cause that bracket to pull and possibly come loose
:shrug:

These are jus guesses though. W/o knowing full details, it's hard to speculate what exactly happened.

[/QUOTE]

That was on point, This sounds really feasible but again I'm not sure because it's not my car. 

[QUOTE=kingpin;442517]i would have to agree with pancakes .. my air runner holds up pretty good , my guess is that this was wear and tear .. i roll pretty low with my AR running at 40 psi on most days .. good luck and hope this gets sorted out :biggthumpup:[/QUOTE]

Appreciate it homie, I have a heart for people who get into problems, and try to help as much as possible. I have been helped out by a few people here at VSC and CL so I feel the need to help another.

Thanks nar8ta. I have installed it correctly and it's not like I have an auto level that automatically fills the bag. My first problem was the bag rubbing now this:sad:

If installed correctly on a properly working system then you should have zero rubbing issues at all or your driving lower than the set up can handle.
What car is this?

2001 Lexus gs300. I called acc and told me that I needed to grind down the knuckle:pat: i thought the reason I went Airrunner was to avoid this issue
And it's not like theres any adjustment to where I can tuck it closer to the wheel well.
I drive with about 105psi in the front and about 75psi in the rear.
I'm not giving up on Airrunner it's just I spent the extra money to avoid these problem and it's costing me even more. I just feel I should of gone a different and cheaper route and the maintenance would have been cheaper.

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;442568]If installed correctly on a properly working system then you should have zero rubbing issues at all or your driving lower than the set up can handle.
What car is this?[/QUOTE]
people have been stating that with a RCA even the airrunner bags will rub.

edit: on the 2gs

i didn't go back through and but didn't i read this is a decade kit?

[QUOTE=brainneeded;442603]people have been stating that with a RCA even the airrunner bags will rub.
 
edit: on the 2gs[/QUOTE]
 
 
He had the rubbing issue pre intalling the RCA. My boy also had the rubbing issue but didn't know until taking the kit off. Others I have spoke with have stated they have no rubbing at all using sage RCA's (30mm), while the Exact RCA is 37mm have complained. Way to many factors.
 
 
The 2gen GS UCA has no adjustment this is why Figs is building these.....
 
[URL]http://www.clublexus.com/forums/suspension-and-brakes/597296-front-uca-proto-pics.html[/URL]
 
[URL]http://www.clublexus.com/forums/suspension-and-brakes/597296-front-uca-proto-pics-5.html[/URL]
 
 
This will probably help the UAS guys with rubbing issues on the 2nd gen. Hopefully there is enough adjutment to get the arm out the way of the bag.

[QUOTE=OG;442607]i didn't go back through and but didn't i read this is a decade kit?[/QUOTE]
 
 
Yes.....

iirc, af wasn't recommending the decade kit because the bellows are larger.

[QUOTE=OG;442616]iirc, af wasn't recommending the decade kit because the bellows are larger.[/QUOTE]
 
 
I Did not know that, thanks for that info!!!!!!!! When I call AR to buy a new strut, I had to give him the serial number because there where two different version of the decade strut. I would love to know if the version 2 uses a smaller bag

The bags were rubbing before I got the RCAs and I was hoping it would help, but I guess not

So the only thing Airrunner can do is sell me a new bag for 700 and I was thinking airrex but then Im not really on Airrunner I might as well go everything airrex

[QUOTE=nar8ta;442617]I Did not know that, thanks for that info!!!!!!!! When I call AR to buy a new strut, I had to give him the serial number because there where two different version of the decade strut. I would love to know if the version 2 uses a smaller bag[/QUOTE]


The newer version does not use a different bag but is placed differently so that some of the issues of rubbing dont happen.  We dont sell the Decade kit for the issues your having.  We always recommend the standard airrunner kit bacause it doesnt have issues.  We would only sell you something that you would know about and not try to just make a buck.  You get what you pay for.


As far as the picture you posted.  That is caused by having the car jacked up for too long and having air in it.  This causes the ring to slip from the bag because of the extra stress.  In the manual or if bought through a KNOWLEDGEABLE dealer they would tell you that you shouldnt have more then 10 psi in a bag when lifted in the air to do work.  People would ask " But it doesnt happen to other bags."  It actually does depending on the design of the bag.  

Side note:  Any moving parts always needs to be inspected and tighten after a certain amount of miles for your safety.  Nothing is made bullet proof but if you can maintain it like you would your oilchanged anything can last a long long time!

Thanks,
Fred

[QUOTE=AutofashionFred;442630]The newer version does not use a different bag but is placed differently so that some of the issues of rubbing dont happen.  We dont sell the Decade kit for the issues your having.  We always recommend the standard airrunner kit bacause it doesnt have issues.  We would only sell you something that you would know about and not try to just make a buck.  You get what you pay for.


As far as the picture you posted.  That is caused by having the car jacked up for too long and having air in it.  This causes the ring to slip from the bag because of the extra stress.  In the manual or if bought through a KNOWLEDGEABLE dealer they would tell you that you shouldnt have more then 10 psi in a bag when lifted in the air to do work.  People would ask " But it doesnt happen to other bags."  It actually does depending on the design of the bag.  

Side note:  Any moving parts always needs to be inspected and tighten after a certain amount of miles for your safety.  Nothing is made bullet proof but if you can maintain it like you would your oilchanged anything can last a long long time!

Thanks,
Fred[/QUOTE]


Excellent post Fred, thanks for the quality info, this thread can really help someone else avoid a bad situation. I respect that AF (being a dealer) publically admits to a design issue with the older AR version. Many would not and just blame the customer as being negligent. Dag on Toyota blamed the accelerator issue on the customer until numerous people died and Congress got involved. Toyota is known for a quality product but the initial complaints where met with ridicule by Toyota Motor Corp. I agree 100%, nothing is bullet proof. AR should put a disclaimer on their site stating that the older version Decade kits "may"  cause rubbing  against the steering knuckle on a 2nd gen GS, and work price wise with those who are experiencing this. Who would initially know there was an issue if others wouldn't have talked. They probably will not, and just state, this is why they implemented a design change..(quietly) LOL. 

Mad respect Fred.


Again, AR does not have a PDF of their manual on line, does anyone know where I can get one? If so PM me a link.

Also how would you know what 10psi is if you were running a height based management kit like accuair. Would you just put the jack under the car and let out most of the air almost dumping. Is the 10PSI rule for just the jacked up side or all 4 sides of the car, meaning would jacking up the car on one side put more stress on the other 3 bags? 


GREAT INFO FELLAS!!!!!!

Lee when we bagging that GS playa???

[QUOTE=tommiedred;442693]Lee when we bagging that GS playa???[/QUOTE]


soon big homie,  waiting for the accuair:dance: i have to give you a call asap.

I have the manual and jacking instruction if others need it. Anyone know how to upload a PDF file?
 
 
After reading the AR jacking instructions, AF was totally right, no more than 10-20 psi should be in the bag for any lengthy time. 
 
Again how would you know what 10-20psi is on a height based system like accuair?
 
Anyone know how to measure this?

pressure sensors are the only way to know pressure.

this happened to mine a year or 2 ago but i was pulling out of my  driveway with everything aired up and i guess i just hit that point  where it was like the car was jacked up and it gave out.  i had them  replace the assembly rather that have someone try to fix it as one specialist said he could do..to much risk to have someone try to fix it.

[QUOTE=brainneeded;443855]pressure sensors are the only way to know pressure.[/QUOTE]
 
yeah i figured that....thanks
 
[QUOTE=solareclipseauto;443903]this happened to mine a year or 2 ago but i was pulling out of my driveway with everything aired up and i guess i just hit that point where it was like the car was jacked up and it gave out. i had them replace the assembly rather that have someone try to fix it as one specialist said he could do..to much risk to have someone try to fix it.[/QUOTE]
 
 
It's just gave out? more info please.
 
So this is not an isolated incident huu. I guess others have had this issue as well.