My new trunk

Boo, hiss
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0547.jpg[/IMG]

Yay
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0546.jpg[/IMG]

Fiberboard floor laid (minus cover for spare tire well) and trunk masked and waxed for fiberglass
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0544.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0545.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0543.jpg[/IMG]

More updates tomorrow!

looks good so far.

How many layers are you gonna do? Also..are you gonna do the whole trunk floor???

i guess u guys are going for flash and all that but u guys all have the PERFECT trunks for an IB setup and please believe, once u go IB youll never look back.  the output....OOOOOOHHHHH the OUTPUT!!!!

IB? Please elaborate!

I'm not really going for output, just tight-ish bass but I'm curious.

edit: oh, infinite baffle?
no can do, I haven't got the budget for giant subs and the amp to power them.

And if I did, I'd have something closer to RASRX7's setup

I believe IB is free air setups.  

Firelizard: is your enclosure the proper spec for your subwoofer?  Also, what JL series do you have?

Mo' update
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0548.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0549.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0550.jpg[/img]

It's got no specs right now, and won't until I build the top. If it's too big (which it will be) I'll fill it in until it's close to specs.

The subs are JL W010

So will the finished box have an amp rack or anything built on? Any MS Paint sketches or anything? I've been wondering about building something like this for myself soon... I want to see how yours turns out! How much are you spending on materials for it? Aside from the premade box (which might save money for the rings) I've heard it's usually ~$150 in materials to do it right.

The amp I'm not sure yet, might get mounted above the spare tire, or in another corner.

I'm not sure about the material cost, but so far I've spent abut 30 bucks buying wood for the trunk and MDF rings, but I've got tons left over, and some cash here and there for masking tape, glue etc.

The fiberglass I'm using is from a big roll of matte that cost 60ish dollars and the resin is 275 for 8 gallons, so far I've used maybe 1 litre, I'll maybe go through another 3-4 doing the top. Throw in some fleece (no idea on the price yet), filler, primer, and paint, and yeah, it should be close to 150.

This is my crappy photoshop of the idea.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/idearender.jpg[/IMG]

so floor will still retain spare use? where will amp be mounted? any write up that you're using for this or just going by word of mouth?

I couldn't find the write ups I had read, so I'm just going by memory mostly, with some fiberglass advice from my auto paint teacher.
This is similar to what I am doing though [url]http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=84427[/url]

Yeah, one of the biggest issues I had was how I was going to get a big enough box and still be able to get to my spare (this is why I'm not using bigger speakers too). The cutout that you can see the spare in has a cover, that's going to be hinged from the bottom.
I'm 80% sure I'm going to mount the amp to the underside of this cover.

looks great...love seeing DIY projects...I gotta get crackin' on my trunk, my air tank & amp is just sitting around...

Here's today's update (no update yesterday 'cuz I stayed home)
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0551.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0552.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0553.jpg[/IMG]

The whole thing was a sticky mess, partly from the tape and wax, partly from the resin not having cured fully because the car was outside in the cold all night.
I mananged to pry it out though, and solved the sticky resin problem by brushing on an extra coat with a bit more catalyst to make sure it cured right through and made a nice shell of resin on the outside.
After that dried, I reinforced the sides with an extra layer of matte (the mold is made of 2 layers) because they were a bit too bendy, and went for lunch.
I then noticed some spots still hadn't cured so I busted out the resin again.

After that was good and hard, I masked off the outline of where I wanted to cut (loosely following some felt tip marker lines that showed through the fiberglass*) and trimmed it with a little sawzall type dealy.

It fits like a glove, it's not trouble to fit in the trunk and it's just tight enough to not wiggle and jiggle and make noise, and it looks nearly flush, I am very satisfied with the results. The 3/8" fiberboard bottom and back make it plenty  strong, especially since it's supported by the sides of the trunk.



*Cool Tip that I found out by accident:
If you draw a pattern for cutting etc. on the masking tape after you've waxed it, the fiberglass soaked with resin will also soak up the ink, so when the part is pulled, your pattern should still be visible through the fiberglass.

im curious to why you did all that for a pair of W0 10"s.

it would have been much easier to build a square box, mounted to the floor, and a nice fiberglass front cover panel from edge to edge, or possibly making up the front of the box only.  you shouldnt have needed all of that extra air space for the pair of W0s.


but its looking good so far. you think it will be removeable when its finished?

The W010s aren't the last subs this car will see. In fact, I may even upgrade this year, to more powerful 10s that will require more volume. Flexibility was a key factor in design here.

Yes, it's removeable. :)

Okey dokey, I'm all done with the box building part, now I just have to level the surface and get it painted, which I'll do when the weather gets nicer and I can work outside.

Here's the past few days' work.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0555.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0556.jpg[/IMG]
That's with the 'looped fleece' stretched over the mold and the rings, to form the shape of the box. That got soaked with resin and I let it harden. After that, two more layers of mat.
Then I trimmed off the excess fleece and glass:
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0558.jpg[/IMG]
Test fitted:
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0561.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0562.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0563.jpg[/IMG]
And mounted the subs:
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0564.jpg[/IMG]

The amp is sitting on top of the spare tire, which is still accessable with no trouble. I kinda broke the left side of the floor which was pretty flimsy, so I'm not quite done under the carpet yet, but it's "complete" enough for now.

I've ordered two 12" blue cold cathodes to provide the lighting, and the next project is getting the subs to work...got some wiring crap or something to fix, blah. They're both pretty beat looking so I'm looking for some replacements - still W010s though

damn that looks good so far!!  What color theme are you going for?

that's a VERY nice looking DIY job so far! can't wait to see it all finished.

are you going to drill a hole for the wiring to pass through and then reseal it before finish? or just going to use grommets or something instead of more glass/resin.

Thanks guys

TL: I want it to blend it so I will paint it black, not sure if I'll go with gloss or semi-gloss though. Possibly an assymetrical tribal, in pearl or silver, I've been looking at Maori tattoos for inspiration to keep it unique.

gmckey: it's all wired already, I used terminal cups in the rear, since the back  is 3/8" fiberboard - I just punched out the holes with a hole saw and press fitted them in.

i dont think tribal pinstriping will look that good on it...around here it's the 'badass' thing to do...yet it looks so cliche. why not just keep it simple with an all black setup? or something like ur sig?

I think it would look very nice if you stick with glossy black paint like in your photo shop.  What amps are you running? Buy a really nice looking amp and use its visual presence to counterbalance the classy black sub box and your system will look very nice. 

D.

good job!

[QUOTE=Caoboy;41723]something like ur sig?[/QUOTE]
That's more of what I had in mind, not like popular tribal, more of a cross between Maori and scrollwork.

dvp: for now, an RF Punch 300.1. If I can find other W010s in better condition, I'll stick with that.
Otherwise I will probably go back to Alpine Type-E and will have to upgrade the amplifier too.

Looks great but it makes me sad that you no longer have that old amp :( 

Either way cant wait to see the final result!

man, you just gave me inspiration.

I hvae 3 gallons of resin sitting here and a box i just got for 20 bucks.....

Looks good, now i gotta ge tmotivated

update pics? I want to see the finished project!

Well, next step it pulling those subs out and filling out all that extra space with spray foam, then cutting out the right volume. After that, unless I change my mind and decide to wrap it, it'll stay the way it is until summer. I'll be working on more 'indoor friendly' projects until it then =)

nice good job ... glad to see ppl actualy doing work to there cars themselves
A++++

[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0555.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0556.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0558.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0561.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0564.jpg[/IMG]

nice work:thumbsup:

lookin good!

So how did you figure out the correct volume for those subs?  It looked like a pain in the ass to calculate.

any finished pics yet and does that box have the right air space for those subs?

[QUOTE=UcanTry;53381]does that box have the right air space for those subs?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=firelizard;43161]Well, next step it pulling those subs out and filling out all that extra space with spray foam, then cutting out the right volume. After that, unless I change my mind and decide to wrap it, it'll stay the way it is until summer. I'll be working on more 'indoor friendly' projects until it then =)[/QUOTE]

....

was just wondering why did u use partical board instead of mdf because under high pressure in a sealed boxi think that the back and the bottom of the box might have some problems. mayb you should reinforce it with some glass.

Just two W010s...not a lot of pressure goin' on. I'll reinforce the whole thing if I upgrade the subs, but that's not a priority at the moment.

This spring is and will continue to be extremely hectic, very little time to work on the car, certainly no time to have the interior in pieces, so pretty much nothing is going to happen until my wheels get here, and I start the bodywork.

Very cool to see you putting so much time and effort into your ride I really can't wait to see what you got in the works keep it up.

lookin pretty good man. you should look into wrapping it in black suede...would be very nice, and a tonnn less body work. if you plan on painting that black youve got a lot of bondo sanding ahead of you haha. to get the best results, wrap it in headliner fabric first as its squishy, then wrap suede over that. makes it padded and soo soft to the touch. suede for that would only be about 80 bucks.

[QUOTE=firelizard;41620]Okey dokey, I'm all done with the box building part, now I just have to level the surface and get it painted, which I'll do when the weather gets nicer and I can work outside.

Here's the past few days' work.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0555.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0556.jpg[/IMG]
That's with the 'looped fleece' stretched over the mold and the rings, to form the shape of the box. That got soaked with resin and I let it harden. After that, two more layers of mat.
Then I trimmed off the excess fleece and glass:
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0558.jpg[/IMG]
Test fitted:
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0561.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0562.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0563.jpg[/IMG]
And mounted the subs:
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/firelizard2/IMG_0564.jpg[/IMG]

The amp is sitting on top of the spare tire, which is still accessable with no trouble. I kinda broke the left side of the floor which was pretty flimsy, so I'm not quite done under the carpet yet, but it's "complete" enough for now.

I've ordered two 12" blue cold cathodes to provide the lighting, and the next project is getting the subs to work...got some wiring crap or something to fix, blah. They're both pretty beat looking so I'm looking for some replacements - still W010s though[/QUOTE]

man you got some serious talent. good job. cant wait to see the finished product.

Does a custom enclosure need to be engineered in order to get optimal sound? or can you just pretty much fiberglass whatevr shape you want and still get a good response?

Correct volume and dimension is very important in getting the optimal sound from subwoofers.  Manufactures of the woofers give the specs of what volume enclosure it should be put in.  Also some woofers are closed and/or ported enclosure specfic, and each have different volumes it should be built upon.

Minimal clearence around the subs magnet is also important.  There are other factors too.  But if the enclosure isn't built to spec of the woofers, you'll get weak bass/resonance that it wasn't intended to do.

[QUOTE=xdumbxguyx;55348]was just wondering why did u use partical board instead of mdf because under high pressure in a sealed boxi think that the back and the bottom of the box might have some problems. mayb you should reinforce it with some glass.[/QUOTE]

Looks good I was thinking the same thing.

that came out pretty nice.  what grit are you going to use to sand down the primer when its on?

Fatfree is right.

As it is, my enclosure is way too big for those subwoofers. My next construction task for it is to build walls inside to create "sub-enclosures" of the correct volume. I haven't done that because I haven't settled on a set of subwoofers yet.

nice project.  looks good. :thumbsup:

Very nice, that takes patient and talent. Keep up the good work.

Good stuff.  I'm currently working on a trunk wall + ported enclosure myself.

cool stuff, does something like this make the subs sound different (good, bad?) or is it hardly noticable?

If done right (correct volume) it makes them sound good.

If done like mine (uncalculated) it is peaky and not so good. That's why I'm not done yet.

[QUOTE=firelizard;56136]Fatfree is right.

As it is, my enclosure is way too big for those subwoofers. [/QUOTE]


That was my intial thought....  looks good though !!

a simple thought

if its too big for a sealed enclosure its probably about the right size to port it and get some serious lows, you would just need to calculate port length and volume to the freq. you desire/works w/ your subs.

just a thought..... i wish i was in your situation with a box that was too big lol  im having a time fitting (2) 2cubic boxes in the q45 i was really hoping that i could have done (2) 3.5 cubic foot boxed so i could port my subs but that = no more trunk space....  damn gas tank!!

joe

[QUOTE=monopolizedinc;63457]a simple thought

if its too big for a sealed enclosure its probably about the right size to port it and get some serious lows, you would just need to calculate port length and volume to the freq. you desire/works w/ your subs.

just a thought..... i wish i was in your situation with a box that was too big lol  im having a time fitting (2) 2cubic boxes in the q45 i was really hoping that i could have done (2) 3.5 cubic foot boxed so i could port my subs but that = no more trunk space....  damn gas tank!!

joe[/QUOTE]

im running 2 cubes ported to 30hz with an adire tumult in my q45.....it sounds clean. also fire lizard..... if u havent calculated you box volume u can use styrofoam popcorn...or some guys even use water if yer messing with glass..... personally if i go pretty I'll build a mdf box and use a beautyboard over the top......BTW what programs do u guys use??? WINIsd is my best friend.

[QUOTE=DEE;63472]im running 2 cubes ported to 30hz with an adire tumult in my q45.....it sounds clean. also fire lizard..... if u havent calculated you box volume u can use styrofoam popcorn...or some guys even use water if yer messing with glass..... personally if i go pretty I'll build a mdf box and use a beautyboard over the top......BTW what programs do u guys use??? WINIsd is my best friend.[/QUOTE]

your sub calls for at least 3cube for a 12.... assuming your running a 12... pics

i running the 15 with only 300watts... this is an sq setup....but I've had 1500rms hook'd up to the tumult in a 4 cube box tuned to 24hz in a van....talk about low lows lol!!

[IMG]http://a769.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/55/l_efe9376ad0921990e0a2860b9e31e470.jpg[/IMG]
 
eventually i will finish......but not priority right now.... i rarely show off my trunk

mmm ya  i have this car as a daily so  i did not intend to spend money it; thats what my mr2 is for... but we all know how that goes 

anyway i need to still have room for 4 steel 80 dive tanks and the rest of the equiptment for 2 ppl I figure i can put the luggage in the rear seats...

wow, a RE fan!

[QUOTE=TLontheDL;63547]wow, a RE fan![/QUOTE]

Nah it's Adire.....same motor tho... XBL2....same buildhouse but i think adire is going under.

nah, adire is all about oem stuff now.  its real hard to find places that arent out of stock though so u could be right.

my sub is a tumult from the first run......got it on preorder in like 03-04....i loved adires.... i still have a revolution 1500 waiting for a home....i think now imma try some re stuff if imma do something major..... 2 18xxx with 2000 watts a piece in an suv would be sick and sickening lol

RE costs too much.  soundsplinter or even tc sounds are just as good for much less.

I've been wondering about those brands.... I see them on [URL="http://www.acoustic-visions.com"]http://www.acoustic-visions.com[/URL]. I've been out of the game for a lil bit tho. How is RDA also? Just looked at the RE site......RE is so mainstream now....crazy....

ive yet to hear any RDA or even hear anything about them.  ive got a small setup in my basement using soundsplinter subs and let me tell u they are flat out amazing.

heres the "small" setup i mentioned...
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/paulsjunk/IMG_0758.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/paulsjunk/IMG_0759.jpg[/img]

what do u call that setup??? almost like a free air or ib setup in yer pad lol...

[QUOTE=DEE;63717]my sub is a tumult from the first run......got it on preorder in like 03-04....i loved adires.... i still have a revolution 1500 waiting for a home....i think now imma try some re stuff if imma do something major..... 2 18xxx with 2000 watts a piece in an suv would be sick and sickening lol[/QUOTE]

Yea I had a first run Brahma from like 02 on a revo 1500. I still rock that same revo in my 240 on a first run RE HC. Im still unsure about building a system for my LS though.


BTW, clean install firelizard.

[QUOTE=DEE;63788]what do u call that setup??? almost like a free air or ib setup in yer pad lol...[/QUOTE]

youre exactly correct.  its an IB setup.  easily the most efficient,  loud, dynamic, and cleanest setup ive EVER heard.  its a wonder this method isnt used more often.

[QUOTE=Pseudonym;63834]youre exactly correct.  its an IB setup.  easily the most efficient,  loud, dynamic, and cleanest setup ive EVER heard.  its a wonder this method isnt used more often.[/QUOTE]


I could imagine....probably don't even take much power huh.. 1-200 watts???

[QUOTE=nizzan4u2nv;63806]Yea I had a first run Brahma from like 02 on a revo 1500. I still rock that same revo in my 240 on a first run RE HC. Im still unsure about building a system for my LS though.


BTW, clean install firelizard.[/QUOTE]


did u rip yer tinsel leads??? hahha I hit a 143 in my van with a brahma 15 mk1 with one coil lol....sorry ass tinsel leads

[QUOTE=DEE;63843]did u rip yer tinsel leads??? hahha I hit a 143 in my van with a brahma 15 mk1 with one coil lol....sorry ass tinsel leads[/QUOTE]

No but I did burn the coils with the gain too high on the revo haha. I ran it 2.5 cubes tuned to 32hz at 1ohm.

yeah the brahma I ran was out of my homies 96 gsr integ in 2.5 tuned to 33hz......straight beast.....143 in my van with just 600 watts....u shoulda heard it in my boys integ...with 1200....shiett...........

is that is your garage? That is freaking sweet, talk about space saving.

nah its my basement and each sub sees 350 watts off a behringer 1500.

DAMN, and here I was thinking I was ballin with my Sonique subs. 350 each is sick, just plain sick. KUDOS to the man with the bad arse wall.

considering picking up a behringer 2500 effectively giving these things 700 a piece but am kind of wary to do it cuz of the sensative nature of subs in an IB setup.  want to do it more out of curiosity.  honestly, how much louder can these subs possibly get?

Any updates firelizard??? Can't wait to see what the final outcome looks like!!!:dance:

:

*shrug*

I guess there's nothing stopping me from sanding the outside some more, but I can't afford new subs and amps because I need to fix other things, and until I get those I can't correct the volume, etc. etc.

Looking good man!!! I went though the same thing you did on my last car.. I thought that the final sanding and smoothing was going to be a huge factor if your going to paint it but it really doesnt have to be perfect.. becuase of the face of that box not being flat. I went with Hot rod balck to be differant from everyone every one had glossy look in which i did add clear and i didntl ike the look so i repainted it.. 
 
I would paint it semi gloss or with Hot rod black. 
 
Here is a pic of my last set up in my XB.. amp rack was motorized. 
 
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/eight08customs/HIN%20DEC%202006/CIMG8414.jpg[/IMG]
 
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/eight08customs/expreScion%20Show/CIMG2057.jpg[/IMG]
 
if your interested in the progress here is a link.. 
 
[URL]http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v649/eight08customs/ICE/[/URL]

[quote=Pseudonym;63750]ive yet to hear any RDA or even hear anything about them. ive got a small setup in my basement using soundsplinter subs and let me tell u they are flat out amazing.
 
heres the "small" setup i mentioned...
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/paulsjunk/IMG_0758.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/paulsjunk/IMG_0759.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
 
 
I'm getting ready to start my HT setup for my theater room..... Limitless power supply and space...I can't wait!!!.... I think I wanna run 1 or 2 18's in a PR setup tuned way low with at least 1k per sub.
 What do you think about these for my front stage L-C-R ..... [URL]http://acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/speakers/complete_kits/kit_lcr.shtml[/URL] 
When it comes to audio I'm a DIY'r.
BTW where are you from??? since u have a basement.......

[quote=DEE;75574]I'm getting ready to start my HT setup for my theater room..... Limitless power supply and space...I can't wait!!!.... I think I wanna run 1 or 2 18's in a PR setup tuned way low with at least 1k per sub.
 What do you think about these for my front stage L-C-R ..... [URL="http://acoustic-visions.com/%7Eacoustic/products/speakers/complete_kits/kit_lcr.shtml"]http://acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/speakers/complete_kits/kit_lcr.shtml[/URL] 
When it comes to audio I'm a DIY'r.
BTW where are you from??? since u have a basement.......[/quote]

Damn thats gonna be sick. Check out [url]www.avsforum.com[/url] im a member over there. What kind of display are you gonna run?

I'm planning on getting the 72" samsung dlp but I dont think I want to use it in there....I want to go with a projector 100+" .....I know you know there's a difference in "watching" and "experiencing" LOL

[quote=DEE;75577]I'm planning on getting the 72" samsung dlp but I dont think I want to use it in there....I want to go with a projector 100+" .....I know you know there's a difference in "watching" and "experiencing" LOL[/quote]

Yea defintely. It all depends on the viewing distance too. I have a 56" samsung 1080p dlp and i sit about 8ft away which is what they recommend. I think I could live with a little bigger size though.

any of those acoustic visions setups would be amazing for a diy front stage.  and i think youre going in the right direction with the projector.  the wall directly to the left of the 1st pic i posted is used to project the 14' picture from our projector and its absolutely amazing.

and i live in CT.  bassments galore over here.  never had one in miami for obvious reasons.

LOOKS Good !:biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=Pseudonym;75762]and i live in CT.  bassments galore over here.  [B][I]never had one in miami for obvious reasons.[/QUOTE][/I][/B]

what?!?!  you never wanted a indoor pool?

updates?

wow! Thats gonna look tight. Those JLs gonna hit hard!

[quote=G35bippu;81382]updates?[/quote]

[IMG]http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9249/img0927el4.jpg[/IMG]
Someone else is enjoying the JLs, and the box is probably in a dumpster.

They were stolen?
That sucks man.

Any word yet from the shop?? I hope you get something back!!! That sucks!!!!!!! I'd be going apeshit about now if it were me!!! I'd go Riki Oh on those guy's!!!!!!!!!!

That blows about your setup being jacked (I'm just assuming it was). You did some awesome work

whoa...i missed this post...stolen??? That bites!!!

all the more reason to try out an IB setup.  you can make it as stealth as u want and youve got a great trunk to do it in.