Platinumvip Phatom Cup kit

I've searched and havent found anyone who started a thread on these. Theyre bagless air suspension and fit right over your current coilovers. So i wonder who are running these and have any opinions on them. Plus theyre having a summer sale for 2,500 for the complete kit. hop on it before it ends. dont got the dough for them myself tho:sad:

there are several threads on this. i think these came out about 2-3 years ago just not advertised as much until now.

foreals? i was searching for it but i guess i suck at using the search button

my understanding is this is a new design. something about the old one being stolen and sold now under a different brand. i may be mistaken though.

either way, cups are bad ass as long as they are used properly and made with quality.

A cup kit is definitely in my future.

i've heard they can't stay "aired up" for an extended amount of time... more or less like to get over a bump then back down... BUT thats just what i've heard

^ these are not (or should not) be a replacement for air bag suspension, but rather a suspension solution all its own.  ride like on coilovers, but with the convenience of getting over bumps. this thread does seem like advertisement tho, and there have 2-3 users warned iirc recently for the same product

i concur with all the badassness talk about them! they are the way to go ! ithink exotic air knocked their design and charging an ass rapely price for them.

from what I've heard but not seen Exotic air is some good stuff.   yes and not cheap.

only thing i'm interested in @ $6k+  is bold world/roberuta. they must have high end clientel already.

[QUOTE=OG;460472]only thing i'm interested in @ $6k+  is bold world/roberuta. they must have high end clientel already.[/QUOTE]

this

I went to the Phantom Suspension site and they don't even list a phone number for contact.

They have mixed reviews that they can be driven up all the time, some say yes and some say no.

Looks like they are happy to service the cups as long as your willing to pay the +$250 charge for each cup service.

Now the big question is how long do they last before they need to be re-serviced?

[URL]http://platinumvipmotors.com/contact-us/[/URL]

didn't know it was the same

I went here: [URL]http://www.phantomsuspension.com/[/URL]

[QUOTE=06M4.5;461532]didn't know it was the same

I went here: [URL]http://www.phantomsuspension.com/[/URL][/QUOTE]
yeah, theyre the same.  the link i posted  is for thier new website.

ive been running thier kit for about  almost a year.  love them. so convenient.  i do ride around with them aired up at times (maybe raised up an inch or two, depending on road surface), but never fully aired up (too stiff because the spring rates increase as more and more air is sent into the cup, thus compressing the spring).  on my car the front goes up a max of 4-5 inches, the rear about 3.  this is because the rear stgrut has a shorter stroke for the z33 coils.  yes, z33 &y50 suspension is same.

but overall i am vwery pleased with the cup kit.. a bit pricey, for some, but wortheverypenny for me.  quality is very good, no leakes, issues or problems thus far.

What has been the longest you have driven with the cups air up about 2"?

with my car I would need to drive aired up about 2" all the time, the M45 is not ment to be driven low.

cups are for going up, not down. if you want different park/ride heights then do it with bags like everyone else. using cups as bags negates the benefits of cups.

[QUOTE=06M4.5;461573]What has been the longest you have driven with the cups air up about 2"?

with my car I would need to drive aired up about 2" all the time, the M45 is not ment to be driven low.[/QUOTE]

i've driven maybe a total of 500 miles with air in the cups... honestly, i dont really know.  i spoke to the guys over at platinum and they said its ok to roll with air, but as stated earlier, ride quality will suffer due to the increase in spring rate.  you could also replace the springs with a softer rate to compensate for the air in the cup... at least thats what kennedy suggested to me.

right now my fender is about a quarter inch above the top of the rim and my subframe is about an inch off the ground.


[QUOTE=OG;461596]cups are for going up, not down. if you want different park/ride heights then do it with bags like everyone else. using cups as bags negates the benefits of cups.[/QUOTE]

AGREED! i basically set my ride height as low as possible and air up when i need to.

If I do go with air on my M45 I would like to set it up that the fender lip is just even with the wheel lip at all 4 corners, I don't need to tuck wheel. The problem is that the M's are not made to be driven like this, 1st thing to scrape is the sway bar which is under the oil pan. No way to whats called laying frame.

In order to drive the car I would need to air up about 2 to 2.5". This would make the fender lip even with the top of the tire. So I would need to drive the car with air all the time when driven.  This is the part that is unclear "can you drive air'd up 2" all the time when car needs to be driven"?.

The reason I'm looking at the cups is because I will only need to air up 2" or so and I should be able to keep the same ride as I have now with my D2 Racing coilovers even if the cups increase the spring rate just a little.

Every blue moon when I'm by myself and all is clear I like to take my M up in to the 140mph zone. I was told because I would only need a small amount of air this would no longer be adviced to do with bags as they will be very bouncy. Most have told me that after installing air bags they really don't go over 85mph.

I want the car to do what it was made for: family car, daily driver and driven hard once in awhile. In no way do I abuse my car and think that it's a racing car.

This is how she sits now: (I call it the family stance)

[IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/2whpk7c.jpg[/IMG]

In other words I'm just trying to go as low as to cover the tires.

At this current height now I'm able to do everything the car was ment to do.

there's no reason you can't do that with bags. if you set up a high psi (100-125 at ride height) you can mimick a high spring rate coilover setup. since your car will be aligned at ride height, your geometry will be better at ride height, and you have the necessary ground clearance at ride height that is where you want to do your high speed driving anyway. deflate for parked stunting.

if you really wanted to you could recreate this with cups by setting them up another way. instead of snugging up the spring perch with the cups deflated you would snug it up with them inflated. this would maintain a constant spring rate since the spring would never be preloded, however you would loose travel and have out of spec geometry at your low height. i would prefer this over the preloaded method though, same results regardless at low height but at high height you'd have a ton of stored energy  in your suspension. have you ever seen how much force it takes to compress a spring 2"? picture that bottled up everytime you drive your car. personally, i think it's a waste of time, money,  and effort to go through alll this just to have a ride height that's non functional because of ground clearance, travel, and geometry; but it's the same as bags so whatever. my experience tells me if that's what you wanna do that's what you're gonna do. i guess the question is does platinum (or any manufacturer) think their seals can take it and are you willing to take your car apart and spend the rebuild money when/if they're wrong. funny part is on platinum's previous design they were pushing them as "drive inflated all day, e'ry day" and said nothing about the rebuild cost. wonder why they changed their tune...

OG thanks for the quick reply and great advice on adjusting the coilovers with cups air'd up at riding height. Travel and being out of spec geometry at your low height setting will not matter as car wouldn't be driven more than 5mph because of no clearance, front sway bar would be about 5mm off the ground. Alignment would be done at driving height.

This has been a great help to me and to other owners of M's that happen to read your info.

I'll try to call platinum later to see what they say about the cups air'd up while driving all the time, and about warranty & rebuild cost.

I'm sure members in the platinum crew may not have warranty issues as per perks for repping the company (reason for pushing brand) but you may be correct in thinking it's a waste of time, money,  and effort for those not in the clique like me who is only looking for 2" travel height adjustment and being out of state would make down time seem forever & costly :-(

This pic was posted by Mexillis:

[URL="http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab330/mexillis/2012-06-13103534.jpg"][IMG]http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab330/mexillis/2012-06-13103534.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

great pic. i tried to google one to figure out exactly whhat you were talking about. honestly, i wouldn't be too concerned with the sway bar. it's pretty beefy and with an inch of clearance to the bottom of the mounts i wouldn't hesitate to drive it slammed. if anything, a couple plates on the mounts and maybe a shield protecting the front and bottom of the bar would do.


i think the real difference in value as far as cups go is how you use them. for someone riding with an inch, or less, of ground clearance a couple inches of lift on demand is priceless. for someone  riding with a couple inches of ground clearance the ability to dump it solely to look cool in a parking lot is meh. i mean, everyone has their own priorities but in my eyes it's pointless.

The M45 needs at least 3" clearance from the swaybar to the ground in order not to scrape. Because the M is so heavy (over 4,000lbs) it has alot of that buick feel. It feels much better (stiffer) with the D2 coilover (front set at 27 clicks out of 36) installed. Ride is great until you try to go lower on the front. No problems at all with the rear.

Many even have problems with hitting the front swaybar with just installing Eibach springs, thus the reason so many install the H-Tech springs (which I have a set for back up). Like the saying goes "everything is good until sh!t happens".

I have found that to keep the suspension in all working condition the magic number is 26.5" from ground to the fender lips on all 4 corners. This will let the fender lip cover just about 1/8"-3/16" of the top of the tire, these number are for those running full size 20" tires  and no camber (245/35 & 285/30). Not bad when you think about the 4 finger gap you started with.

I hope this info helps other M owner that are think of lowering their car. I had to learn the hard way.

that's [I]your[/I] experience. 3" ground clearance is a lot by vsc (or maybe just og) standards. regardless of what car you're driving ground clearance is ground clearance. every platform car is around 2 tons, so that point is irrelevant here. worst case scenario a sway bar is expendable. i'd much rather suffer an impact to a sway than an oil pan, which is what some cars have to deal with as their lowest point. if you need 3" to get around you either have really bad roads, lots of elevation changes, or under developed low driving skills. [I]i[/I] can get around [I]my[/I] city with an inch static.

 i'm assuming you're running out the box spring rates with your d2, which probably has something to do with why you have problems low and definitely has something to do with the guys you mentioned that have problems running drop springs (drop springs? really? lol.). with recent products made readily available most cats running static are moving towards high spring rates (japan has been doing it at least as long as i've been watching). the damping adjustment is a fine adjustment tool, it is not meant to compensate for insufficient spring rates. the lower you go, the greater the need to limit suspension travel becomes. the trade off with high spring rates is, of course, ride comfort. the other ride quality issue with low cars is the one that's less commonly addressed, and that's dynamic geometry. cats kind of fall off after the static camber is where they want it and they get their toe sorted. you have all sorts of issues with stuff like binding, clearance, roll center, bumpsteer, etc. that is perceived as a whole rather than seperate issues.

sounds to me like you're putting a little too much  value into what's being said on the nissan/infiniti forums. that's little league, this is the majors. not to say we are the pinnacle of suspension, when i'm on the quest for knowledge i look to motorsport resources. i then take what applies and leave what doesn't. over here we're extremists and typical of extremists we are willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish our goal. we make progress through research and trial and error. if you're content with your 3" of ground clearance and want to persue a solution based on that then carry on, but i'm here to tell you that your perceived notion of what is impossible is false. it really just boils down to what you want to do, what it takes to get there, and your personal threshhold for the relationship between the two.

sorry for the ot.

You got it, bad roads (Jersey City, NJ) and vip cars don't like to drive around here at all. But I'm looking to use my car as needed not as a show car Thus the reason my car is nowhere near vip status. And unlike others that the 1st thing they get is curtains, neck & drop pillows and window visors my cars has none. I'll be the 1st to say it "my car is not vip".

This car needs to get the groceries and do at least 3hr road trips with 4 people in the car with the trunk & tank full at 85mph (not happening with 1" or even 2" clearance). My last toy had a 4.5" drop with about 1.5" clearance but it road like a go-kart, it really did.

I agree with higher spring rates for the M's but D2 Racing in NC didn't want to hear it. Even if the struts go bad I was told you need to buy new ones at $135 a pop, no rebuilds.

Any place to find higher spring rates that would work with the D2 Racing? I think the fronts are 16k

OK lets clear the air

I had the chance to call Platinum and was able to speak to Kennedy. He was very nice and took the time to answer all my questions I had about my M45.

Yes the cup kit can be driven air'd up all the time.

They have been test on all Platinum vip cars & customer on site installs, even the M45.

When using cups with coilover, you must ship your coilover to Platinum and they will do the set up for you. All you have to do is bolt on the cups & coilover set-up, air lines, tank & compressor. No other parts are need unless you want to go with elevel. It needs less room & parts than going with air-bags.

Price for the kit is $2,500 + $250 for shipping with set-up, both ways. Total will be $2,750

Everything has warranty but the o-rings

The rebuild cost is $50 for each cup + shipping if needed. (NOT $200 each).

The new cups have 4 updated o-rings which they claim not to have any failures up to date.

If you can stop by the Platinum shop they will install the system for $500 if no other work or additional equipment (like elevel) is needed.

At this time they don't have any kits instock, all sold out. Next batch should be coming in about 3 weeks.

.

OG

The cups kit can't be installed while the cup is inflated, the shaft on the coilover is not long enough for this type of set-up. It may work for other cars but not for the M45. It was a great idea.

The spring rate will increase the more air is used in the cups, not to much if 2" of lift is only needed. Biggest difference will be if air'd all the way up (much stiffer).

Lift all depends on individual car set-up & wheel and tire combo. Every car will be different.

I was assured that the cup kit will allow me to use the car as intended (family daily driver), even at high speeds & turns. 


I hope this helps all that are undecided on what type of system is best for you., weather it's bags or cup kit I wish you luck.

Thanks to OG for all the knowledge he has shared with me today, I feel alittle smarter =)

And thanks to Kennedy for taking the time to answer all my questions that I threw at him..




PS if you feel I left some info out please let me know.

Freddie

i am having the phantom air cup kit installed as I type this,, so i'm new to this setup and have a question for you cxlo.  i had just assumed that you tap the button down or up and it goes all the way down or up, now after reading your post above it sounds like since you can run half aired up that you have to hold the button down for like 3-4 seconds to completely raise or lower all the way?  If this is true then i guess you just hold the button down for a second or two to get less than full raise or drop, correct?  if this is the case i guess that even more awesome because i was really seriously stuck on my contemplating how low i want to set the coilovers (height wise).

i want to set it just high enough to be able to drive and turn, but have bad memories of past coilover setups in my previous LS430 where i would cruise through an intersection while making a left or right turn only to hit a small dip in the intersection and scrape all over the place.  my present toyota crown does have a much shorter wheel base than my previous lex so its more comparable to a lex GS or infin M wheel base so i may be good now though, since the LS had such a huge wheel base it often would scrape when my friends in their GS's and M's wouldn't and they would be more slammed often times.  maybe spring rates were more a factor but theirs didn't feel harsh and mines didn't feel any softer (to me).

i guess now i will consider running a half inch lower then, just knowing that i can air up an inch and still be able to drive easily then,,, any thoughts?  thanks and sorry to thread jack...

[QUOTE=sojah;461791]i am having the phantom air cup kit installed as I type this,, so i'm new to this setup and have a question for you cxlo.  i had just assumed that you tap the button down or up and it goes all the way down or up, now after reading your post above it sounds like since you can run half aired up that you have to hold the button down for like 3-4 seconds to completely raise or lower all the way?  If this is true then i guess you just hold the button down for a second or two to get less than full raise or drop, correct?  if this is the case i guess that even more awesome because i was really seriously stuck on my contemplating how low i want to set the coilovers (height wise).

i want to set it just high enough to be able to drive and turn, but have bad memories of past coilover setups in my previous LS430 where i would cruise through an intersection while making a left or right turn only to hit a small dip in the intersection and scrape all over the place.  my present toyota crown does have a much shorter wheel base than my previous lex so its more comparable to a lex GS or infin M wheel base so i may be good now though, since the LS had such a huge wheel base it often would scrape when my friends in their GS's and M's wouldn't and they would be more slammed often times.  maybe spring rates were more a factor but theirs didn't feel harsh and mines didn't feel any softer (to me).

i guess now i will consider running a half inch lower then, just knowing that i can air up an inch and still be able to drive easily then,,, any thoughts?  thanks and sorry to thread jack...[/QUOTE]

yeah, essentially, you hold the paddle switch either up or down and you can set your cups to have as much air as desired.  it equates to about 1 second is equal to one inch of travel.  so you air up for 1 second and you gain about 1 inch of ride height.  

due to my ride height settings on my coilovers, i usually air up when i need to make a u-turn, or if im at full lock.  but regular turning is fine. but this may be due to my current wheel fitment, if they were more flush then they may rub.

airing up 1 inch to drive is assumed to be ok. but id rather dial in the ride height to be as low as possible in order to achieve proper ride height without having to air up all the time... and just drive carefully.  but it is comforting knowing i can air up if need be.

hope this helps.

i dont know anyones design or can comment on any quality except the fact of peoples testimony on what they buy. i had air force air cups a few years ago. went thru  some issues bc of moron installer error and of course i should have researched more on  how they should be set and used once everything was  set properly it was a great set up. It did what it was designed to do .  Quality wise i dont think it was up to par with PVIP, umbrella, roberuta, etc etc.  but from the time of me having the suspension when it was set correctly to the date of my accident which damaged my coilovers and cups it worked flawless. Meaning not drive while aired up and only to air up when i needed to. 

Just trying to give my experience with cups. which is dont drive with them aired up unless you need to for drive ways, shitty roads for a short time, and drive ways. i am sure something will happen bad if someone was to drive aired up all the time. I know my comment has nothing to do with the topic i again just wanted to give my 2 cents on my experience with cups. I have not heard alot of people complain about pvip cups but just dont drive with them aired up if that is the only way you can drive no matter what anyone says. set the coilovers to what you want your ride height to be.

lol @ moron installer. 

funny, cuz its true. :innoutrofl2:

[url]http://exoticair.com/[/url]

[QUOTE=nar8ta;462751][url]http://exoticair.com/[/url][/QUOTE]

i'm all for 'get what you pay for' but for what you'd pay for a 4 corner set up, i'd throw down and get roberuta.

I saw a price of $5,500 without set up for the Roberuta kit.

I can only have get what you pay for things when I hit the lotto, you see I'm just poor

It's just like wheels, I would love a set of these:

[URL]http://saviniforged.com/categories.asp?i_main=collection&i_submain=a&i_subname=savini&subcat=XC[/URL]

but at a price of about $7,000 it looks like I'll never have them :-(

exotic air is similar, 1200 a cup + 6-700 for air supply.

Hey guys check the for sale section I'm selling a brand new phantom cup kit with s1 coilovers ..

as far as i know of this matter platinum redesigned it because the last ones they made sucked so much dick. they had to replace a lot of earlier models