coilovers vs. air...

Through personal research, it was noted that there were plenty of VIPcar/VIPstyled car owners from here to Japan that either run adjustable coilovers or bags, the stats are [I]almost[/I] split 50/50.

To the VSC members, why do you choose bags over coilovers or vice versa?

[B]estimated price ranges:[/B]
JIC's "VIP coilovers" run [B]around[/B] $1,900 MSRP.
Universal Air runs [B]around[/B] $2,000 MSRP.

who really wouldn't pay $100 more for bags unless one got sponsored for coilovers?

besides easier adjustability and possibly ride quality, is one really better than the other or is it based on preference of pros/cons?

[B]intelligent responses, please.[/B] k thx

Air for the win!!

i love my coilovers, but ill be on air soon

for a hundred bux extra go with air... that way if u get bored at a stoplight u can f*ck with them, haha

I think its primarily based on personal preference. 

Air
Pros - quick adjustbility, raises and lowers car much more than coilovers

Cons - air leaks, ride too soft, regular maintance

Coilovers
Pros - wide range of adjustabily including damper settings, lower of raise the car with minimal work, can obtain a "stock" ride quality

Cons - Not quickly adjustable


Thats what I think, personally I love air.  Makes it quick to go up and down so you dont fuck shit up.

What about a custom kit were you use both? I've seen pics of setups with coilover hybrid with air.

nice intelligent response, RaCinStylez. :cool:

[QUOTE=Kuroikaze;60990]What about a custom kit were you use both? I've seen pics of setups with coilover hybrid with air.[/QUOTE]

I would like to know more about this.

[QUOTE=|crash|;60992]nice intelligent response, RaCinStylez. :cool:



I would like to know more about this.[/QUOTE]


A few people on clublexus have done this.  I was going to do this for my SC before it was totaled.  basically you use the universal air kit with a coilover set up.  It was ummagawd from clublexus who first introduced me to this set up.  He used HKS hyper-maxes with the universal air kit to make what I think is one of the best custom set-ups possible. The advantage of this set-up is you have full control of everything.  You are able to adjust both the bag position and inflate/deflate the bag.  Bags are normally 9" full and 4" empty.  Not only do you have super height adjustabilty you also have 24 way damper settings.  The cost on this kit is a bit more, because you have to buy both coilovers and the universal air kit.  In my opinion this set-up is great, but if you are planning on spending 4k on a set-up why not just buy some canovers.

[img]http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/502/DSC02141.JPG[/img]

[QUOTE=RaCinStylez;60997]A few people on clublexus have done this.  I was going to do this for my SC before it was totaled.  basically you use the universal air kit with a coilover set up.  It was ummagawd from clublexus who first introduced me to this set up.  He used HKS hyper-maxes with the universal air kit to make what I think is one of the best custom set-ups possible. The advantage of this set-up is you have full control of everything.  You are able to adjust both the bag position and inflate/deflate the bag.  Bags are normally 9" full and 4" empty.  Not only do you have super height adjustabilty you also have 24 way damper settings.  The cost on this kit is a bit more, because you have to buy both coilovers and the universal air kit.  In my opinion this set-up is great, but if you are planning on spending 4k on a set-up why not just buy some canovers.[/QUOTE]

everyday you learn something.  awesome.

I have the Air Runner setup for the Previa. I like it and it actually runs smoother than stock. I able to raise it when I need to clear obstacles without having to get out of my car. Its convenient. As for the Universal Air setup, if you're using the stock struts you will be limited to how low you can go and the ride quality won't be the same as using a coilover setup with it. So bottom line is if you're going for air, go with Air Runner which is already assembled or you can go with UAS which needs to be pieced together. Also, air setups require a maintenance of emptying the air tank every 1-2 weeks which is easy. And actually I've seen some coilover setups that go lower than air setups. Good luck.

[QUOTE=RaCinStylez;60997]A few people on clublexus have done this.  I was going to do this for my SC before it was totaled.  basically you use the universal air kit with a coilover set up.  It was ummagawd from clublexus who first introduced me to this set up.  He used HKS hyper-maxes with the universal air kit to make what I think is one of the best custom set-ups possible. The advantage of this set-up is you have full control of everything.  You are able to adjust both the bag position and inflate/deflate the bag.  Bags are normally 9" full and 4" empty.  Not only do you have super height adjustabilty you also have 24 way damper settings.  The cost on this kit is a bit more, because you have to buy both coilovers and the universal air kit.  In my opinion this set-up is great, but if you are planning on spending 4k on a set-up why not just buy some canovers.

[img]http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/502/DSC02141.JPG[/img][/QUOTE]


What are 'canovers'?

[quote=NJ240sxMan;61020]What are 'canovers'?[/quote]
 
Air cylinders with adjustable dampening. [url]www.canoverair.com[/url]

I'm glad this thread was started as I've been wondering this too, I'm going to be choosing between coilovers and air soon, 

I would love air but I'm a bit cautious as to the ride quality as I do love the twisty's and with quite a few comments on air setups being soft and less firm than oem its really putting me off, but the adjustability would be fantastic to get over some of the gigantic UK speedbumps :confused:

[QUOTE=Cranky;61032]I'm glad this thread was started as I've been wondering this too, I'm going to be choosing between coilovers and air soon, 

I would love air but I'm a bit cautious as to the ride quality as I do love the twisty's and with quite a few comments on air setups being soft and less firm than oem its really putting me off, but the adjustability would be fantastic to get over some of the gigantic UK speedbumps :confused:[/QUOTE]

if you were to go coilovers, I would just leave the suspension height at "stock" height regardless of how dumb it may look and only slam it for car shows or meets.

I went to Coilovers when I first started the JP GS400 based on the fact of availability.  The first year of the JP build I just dropped the car at the events we attended.  Eventually, and based on my personal driveway at home, I had to make the move to air.  Once again, I went with a US based Cylinder company for the sake of availability.  The ride quality was great, the adjustability was amazing, and the sheer easiness of use was perfect.  Raise to drive height, raise higher to get up and down my driveway (mind you, a stock height car will scrape hard on it), and lower whenever the car was parked.  

My only beef with my system was that I went with 1/2 lines and those would rub against my inner tire creating a leak. 

But what RacinStyles posted is a perfect way to look at it...

Personally for me, I might run coilovers on the GS for a short while.  Just to avoid the leaks while my son is so young and we are driving hte car around and to save money for a new Air setup

should "hydraulics" be another option? i understand that frankthetank is running one. is there anyone else on hydros? and if so, hows the reliability?

[QUOTE=|crash|;60992]nice intelligent response, RaCinStylez. :cool:



I would like to know more about this.[/QUOTE]

you will soon
i sold my stagea, and whatever i get next is going to have an air coilover setup

What racinstylez had posted was one of the setups I saw/read about. The other I've searched or read was a tanabe setup which never made it to the states. But it utilized a similar setup as the above posted. Info below is straight from CL.

[img]http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Tanabe_008.jpg[/img]

The concept of the Air Cobra suspension is to be able to raise and lower the vehicle using an air suspension system, but retain the function and driveability of a typical coil-over-strut setup.

The Air Cobra kit comes with its own compressor and hardware, and also has a wireless remote to raise and lower the vehicle if you are outside of it. In Japan we have produced them for the UCF10, UCF20 and JZS161.

Some additional information can be found here:

[url]http://202.164.225.248/guide/suspention/01.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Cranky;61032]I'm glad this thread was started as I've been wondering this too, I'm going to be choosing between coilovers and air soon, 

I would love air but I'm a bit cautious as to the ride quality as I do love the twisty's and with quite a few comments on air setups being soft and less firm than oem its really putting me off, but the adjustability would be fantastic to get over some of the gigantic UK speedbumps :confused:[/QUOTE]

My air setup handles excellent. I don't get any body roll. I take onramps @ 
60+ mph  all the time.

I think it just comes down to your personal driving style and how low you want your driving height to be.  

Personally I like to roll real low, and don't mind speed bumps or driveways.  I'm on coilovers now and everything is all good, the ride is nice and firm, handling is good, and almost tucking rim looks sick.  But, the tire life is no good.

[QUOTE=mdenoga;61024]Air cylinders with adjustable dampening. [url]www.canoverair.com[/url][/QUOTE]

is that a coilover as well? do you know if anyone has them here?

[QUOTE=Kuroikaze;61062]What racinstylez had posted was one of the setups I saw/read about. The other I've searched or read was a tanabe setup which never made it to the states. But it utilized a similar setup as the above posted. Info below is straight from CL.

[img]http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Tanabe_008.jpg[/img]

The concept of the Air Cobra suspension is to be able to raise and lower the vehicle using an air suspension system, but retain the function and driveability of a typical coil-over-strut setup.

The Air Cobra kit comes with its own compressor and hardware, and also has a wireless remote to raise and lower the vehicle if you are outside of it. In Japan we have produced them for the UCF10, UCF20 and JZS161.

Some additional information can be found here:

[url]http://202.164.225.248/guide/suspention/01.html[/url][/QUOTE]

i thought these weren't gonna make it to the US? i was speaking to the TANABE rep. at TORC, and i asked them about it too.

I currently have coilovers (JIC SF-1s) And I plan to move to air before the end of the year.  The real debate is between air runner and UAS, I could just get airrunner and call it a day, but I love twisties, if I go uas it would be cheaper but my rear struts need to be rebuilt before that happens, and I hear that isnt cheap with coilovers :(  thanks for  creating this thread.

[quote=C4 President;61070]is that a coilover as well? do you know if anyone has them here?[/quote]
 
Canover has two setups available: 1)air cylinders 2) bag over strut. It is not a coilover setup. There was a member from the old forum with a SC400 "Xotic SC" I think his name is Calvin and another guy with a silver CRX with the Black widow kit (socal).

Ive got stock air on datasystem air controller and ss kit.  Its the best thing.  Ive got a stock drive quality and ive got all the functionality of airbags without having to worry about leaks or regularly flushing my air tank.

[QUOTE=Bippu Styling;61071]i thought these weren't gonna make it to the US? i was speaking to the TANABE rep. at TORC, and i asked them about it too.[/QUOTE]

These never did. They were only available in japan.

[QUOTE=Brandicus;61075]I currently have coilovers (JIC SF-1s) And I plan to move to air before the end of the year.  The real debate is between air runner and UAS, I could just get airrunner and call it a day, but I love twisties, if I go uas it would be cheaper but my rear struts need to be rebuilt before that happens, and I hear that isnt cheap with coilovers :(  thanks for  creating this thread.[/QUOTE]

now JIC has the "VIP FLT-A2" coilovers that run around $1,900. :p

vip flta2? ive always known them as just flta2's.. regular coilovers. and most sets ive seen go for $1300-1500. 1900 is a bit much

[QUOTE=HoeBag;61110]vip flta2? ive always known them as just flta2's.. regular coilovers. and most sets ive seen go for $1300-1500. 1900 is a bit much[/QUOTE]

yes, they now apparently have a "VIP" version of the FLT-A2's or at least that's the way they're wording it.

here's JIC's description of their "VIP FLT-A2" coilovers:

"JIC introduces the all new FLT-A2 VIP coilover suspension system. The FLT-A2 VIP has all the same features as the FLT-A2 but made for luxury vehicles. The FLT-A2 VIP is designed for a comfortable ride while still retaining the same handling performance and quality found in the FLT-A2. It also allows the vehicle to have a very low drop along with larger diameter wheels without affecting the compression and rebound travel of the dampers. Rigorous testing of the dampers insures that comfort and handling qualities are met while giving the driver that very important VIP stance, improve handling, and gain that agressive look."

here ya go,

[url=http://www.jic-magic.com/ViewProduct1.aspx?ProductID=34][B][COLOR="Red"]FLT-A2 VIP Luxury Vehicle Coilover[/COLOR][/B] [/url]

[QUOTE=Bippu Styling;61114]here ya go,

[url=http://www.jic-magic.com/ViewProduct1.aspx?ProductID=34][B][COLOR="Red"]FLT-A2 VIP Luxury Vehicle Coilover[/COLOR][/B] [/url][/QUOTE]

thx!  i was lookin all over for that link.

i was planning on running uas on tein coilovers, but i read somewhere that the tein coilovers are too big? is this true?

unfortunately yes. However there is one member on clublexus who got it to fit somehow. As of now, only the HyperMaxII  are known to fit UAS' donut-style bags.

now i've heard that AIRCOBRA's are trying to make it's way here in So.Cal. 
hope.

How much would AirCobra's be valued at if they do manage to make it state-side?

UCF10.

i heard around 3k-4k......
if they do make it ....
i def. getting them....

i'd go air.  cant beat the adjustability factor w/in your car.

I believe I might be the first in the US with Tanabe Aircobra. I really like it so far, but its not as low as a typical airbag only setup. I think im gonna solve that with a Youzealand SS kit though, I just need to obtain more info on it cause even the babelfish translations of their site still doesnt make any sense to me. The front at full low on the coilovers and the bags is down to tread on 225/35/19 and the rear tucks about half the sidewall of 235/35/19s. So with the extra 20mm of drop from the ss kit ill be about where id wanna be.

Heres a pic when I brought it home(on lowest coilover and 0psi on the bags), I think I should be straight after the ss kit, still probably not low enough for some though.
[img]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3329/dsc00005ke8.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=nizzan4u2nv;61896]I believe I might be the first in the US with Tanabe Aircobra. I really like it so far, but its not as low as a typical airbag only setup. I think im gonna solve that with a Youzealand SS kit though, I just need to obtain more info on it cause even the babelfish translations of their site still doesnt make any sense to me. The front at full low on the coilovers and the bags is down to tread on 225/35/19 and the rear tucks about half the sidewall of 235/35/19s. So with the extra 20mm of drop from the ss kit ill be about where id wanna be.

Heres a pic when I brought it home(on lowest coilover and 0psi on the bags), I think I should be straight after the ss kit, still probably not low enough for some though.
[/QUOTE]

SICK!! i wanted to go to your pad, but im on a time crunch with my pad. by looks good though

[QUOTE=nizzan4u2nv;61896]I believe I might be the first in the US with Tanabe Aircobra. I really like it so far, but its not as low as a typical airbag only setup. I think im gonna solve that with a Youzealand SS kit though, I just need to obtain more info on it cause even the babelfish translations of their site still doesnt make any sense to me. The front at full low on the coilovers and the bags is down to tread on 225/35/19 and the rear tucks about half the sidewall of 235/35/19s. So with the extra 20mm of drop from the ss kit ill be about where id wanna be.

Heres a pic when I brought it home(on lowest coilover and 0psi on the bags), I think I should be straight after the ss kit, still probably not low enough for some though.
[img]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3329/dsc00005ke8.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]


damn, that isnt low at all! you still have wheel gap. if thats what people will be getting for 3-4 g's then tell aircobra to lick my bag...most people w/ coilovers are lower than that kit w/ 0psi. ew.

[QUOTE=nizzan4u2nv;61896]I believe I might be the first in the US with Tanabe Aircobra. I really like it so far, but its not as low as a typical airbag only setup. I think im gonna solve that with a Youzealand SS kit though, I just need to obtain more info on it cause even the babelfish translations of their site still doesnt make any sense to me. The front at full low on the coilovers and the bags is down to tread on 225/35/19 and the rear tucks about half the sidewall of 235/35/19s. So with the extra 20mm of drop from the ss kit ill be about where id wanna be.

Heres a pic when I brought it home(on lowest coilover and 0psi on the bags), I think I should be straight after the ss kit, still probably not low enough for some though.
[img]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3329/dsc00005ke8.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

Wow Rei your LS looks siiick. I didn't know u went with Air Cobra, i remember someone at AF mentioning they were installing it into a car, wasn't sure if they were referring to yours. But yeah man it was good seeing u in Downtown, hope to your LS around. Peace.

sorry if I'm late but I just found this out today.

I thought JIC's FLT-A2 VIP coilovers were the only VIP coilovers JIC made but apparently JIC-Magic in Japan has a whole line of VIP coilovers that dump your car as far as bags but they run higher than a UAS system. :eek: 

this is a PM I got from someone earlier.

[I]The JIC FLT-TAR i believe is called FLT-A2 in the states. But JIC USA does not carry the FLT-FAS or FLT-TAR (Super Low).  Here's their line of VIP coilovers.[/I]

[url]http://www.jic-magic.co.jp/vip-flt-as.html[/url]
[url]http://www.jic-magic.co.jp/vip-flt-a2.html[/url]

i drive coild because id rather be riding low all the time, and they ride much better and handle nicer...

some cars that come stock w/ air, ride well but aftermarket air just feels horrible to me

riley

[QUOTE=rijowysock;62539]i drive coild because id rather be riding low all the time, and they ride much better and handle nicer...

some cars that come stock w/ air, ride well but aftermarket air just feels horrible to me

riley[/QUOTE]

yeah, but I am so fearful of riding low all the time.  when I get my coilovers I'm prob gonna only dump it for meets/shows.

[QUOTE=RaCinStylez;60955]I think its primarily based on personal preference. 

Air
Pros - quick adjustbility, raises and lowers car much more than coilovers

Cons - air leaks, [B]ride too soft[/B], regular maintance

Coilovers
Pros - wide range of adjustabily including damper settings, lower of raise the car with minimal work, can obtain a "stock" ride quality

Cons - Not quickly adjustable


Thats what I think, personally I love air.  Makes it quick to go up and down so you dont **** **** up.[/QUOTE]

Why does everyone think that air rides soo soft??? Also I've never had any leaks or have had to drain my tank.

[QUOTE=DEE;62588]Why does everyone think that air rides soo soft???[/QUOTE]

probably blown shocks and rides like a boat :p

my coilovers go lower than most bags.

Nice threaad.  Got all the info I need.  Thanks

lcrashl ,
 
hhhmmm interesting Never heard of that but I have the older JIC coilovers and they can go super low,, not sure if its becuase they are for a cedric but I honestly have about 3-4" more I can slam mine down..and it is allready slammed pretty low.

You will find the bumpstop gets in the way before you can lay frame. Unless you have customised ones. The rear of my JICs look like they have 2-3" more than what i have selected, but they only go down an inch then its on the bumpstops

$1000 = CST 24 way adj coilovers
$2300 = UAS

$3300 = Total

cheaper and better than Airrunner and sure out performs any other Air bag/Air Sleeve system on the market. like i have mentioned before, choosing your own shocks or coilovers to match the UAS bags is the best way to create your own setup. I had HKS before the CST. Both performs great.

–  UAS bags will fit over the Tein CS ONLY. Flex, HA... nope.
–  UAS bags will also fit over Apexi and Cusco. Ppl with JIC or Tanabe just measure the 
    thickest part on the shock. if it is less than 2.14" inches, you are good to go.
–  Canovers offer Bags and Air cylinder. Air cylinders leak over time and it is not perferred to 
    use while driving. 

FYI, the Bags offered by Canovers are supplied by UAS. UAS also supply bags for Job Design and Fabulous Japan.

Other Info I have researched:

-  Roberuta is a canover cylinder that sits on top of the coilovers. It's only purchase is to raise the car no more than 2 inches to allow for clearance. You CANNOT drive with the Cups full of air. It was not designed to do so. Therefore just like Canovers systems, are more likely to leak over time. 

Pro: Roberutas will work with many of todays leading Japanese coilovers
Con: Way over priced for some cans, 3 gallon tank, and weak compressor (almost $6k for 4 corners and their controller)

-  Bold World, just like the Airrunner setup, it is a very nice engineered system. But they too use off the shelf Firestone bags that are were NOT developed with spring rate or automotive suspension inmind. Therefore they are a soft ride and not rebuildable if it pops. You would actually have to purchase an entire corner unit. For those that want a soft ride, Airrunner is or Bold World is perfect for your liking.

Pro: Looks great. Bag/shcok combo. Dampening adjustments.
Con: Ridiculus price for something originally imported to Japan from US.

What many ppl do not realize, most of the Japanese Air kits are actually from the US. The tanks, compressors, etc. They were all imported to Japan and pieced together. The crazy price is for the Japan market, b/c it is an imported parts to them. Everything those companies offer in their setup can be pieced together for a fraction of the price here in the states. b/c it was originally from here.

Those that have built their own Air setup know. Do your research and you will realize what I am saying.

At the end, do what you want. Im just letting you know what i have learned regarding Air SUS. Whatever floats your boat... to each their own... blah blah blah.....

solo

[quote=solo;73108]
 
FYI, the Bags offered by Canovers are supplied by UAS. UAS also supply bags for Job Design and Fabulous Japan.
 
 
solo[/quote]
 
hehe...i was wasn't sure if they wanted peeps to know that

The thing that attracts me to UAS, is that if a bag pops, you just need to swap the bag for the original coils. No downtime waiting for a replacement bag...

Oh I gotcha,,,if lowered that much that would that make the JIC blow faster??
I am really considering getting a UA over my coilovers.

[QUOTE=DEE;73109]hehe...i was wasn't sure if they wanted peeps to know that[/QUOTE]

=) im a consumer. Plus UAS logos are on all their bags... so not much of a secret. =)

some good points you make solo. when something is brought to japan from the US, they dont consider that when they happen to sell back to a customer in the US. it would be like ordering a nitrous kit (which some japanese shops use extensively) from japan and paying out the nose for something that was cheaper in the US.

[quote=solo;73108]$1000 = CST 24 way adj coilovers
 
 
- Bold World, just like the Airrunner setup, it is a very nice engineered system. But they too use off the shelf Firestone bags that are were NOT developed with spring rate or automotive suspension inmind. Therefore they are a soft ride and not rebuildable if it pops. You would actually have to purchase an entire corner unit. For those that want a soft ride, Airrunner is or Bold World is perfect for your liking.
 
 
solo[/quote]
your wrong on this one buddy. they airrunner bag/strut is its own airrunner design. the firestone bags you see are the ones for scions, fits.. etc the cars with the seperate strut/spring suspension in the rear. the full strut system with bag is specially made from airrunner. therefor you cannot just go out and get that sleeve/bag. if it blow, it is fully rebuildable. ask freddie to break it down to you.
 
yes, i think everyone knows that the rest of the parts are from the US. but your just mainly paying for the struts.

the airrunners are rebuildable. i know. i popped one of my bags and had to send it back to airrunner they fixed it and sent it back in about a week. good customer service and fast turn around.

Ever since I heard of canovers I thought they would be the ones I bought instead of bags/coilovers, but are they really bad for using while driving as solo said? What good is in them then, play around in the show´s/meetings?[img]http://www.coolrom.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif[/img]

I just want to know do I wanna spend 2-3k on coilovers & bags or 3-4k on canovers (and the prize depends on the taxes etc. to import them in Finland).
I really do need comfortable ride with easily adjustable height (=coilovers & bags/canovers) because I live in Finland, and here are some nasty speedbumbs all over the country..:/

But this all isn't going to happen in the near future, I'm now 18 so it will take alot of time before I can have the money to buy a car + rims + bk etc. :)