Thread #4590

House OKs penalty for gas price gouging

7 archived posts · 406 historical views

DriftGirlMay 23, 2007
#62041

House OKs penalty for gas price gouging

By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer 44 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - The House, eager to do something about record high gasoline prices in advance of the Memorial Day weekend, voted narrowly Wednesday to approve stiff penalties for those found guilty of gasoline price gouging.

The bill directs the Federal Trade Commission and Justice Department to go after oil companies, traders or retail operators if they take "unfair advantage" or charge "unconscionably excessive" prices for gasoline and other fuels.
The White House called the measure a form of price controls that could result in fuel shortages. It said President Bush would be urged to veto the legislation should it pass Congress.
The bill needed the approval of two-thirds of the members of the House because the leadership considered it under an expedited legislative process. Thus, the 284-141 vote was only one over the threshold for passage. A similar measure is being considered by the Senate.
The bill would for the first time create a federal law making energy price gouging illegal. It would cover not only gasoline, but also other fuels such as natural gas and heating oil.
Rep. Bart Stupak (news, bio, voting record), D-Mich., its chief sponsor, in urging his colleagues to support the bill said the issue was whether "to side with Big Oil (or) ... side with consumers who are being ripped off at the gas pump."
But Stupak was forced to soften the bill so that he could get it passed by requiring a president to first declare an energy emergency before the anti-gouging law could be enforced. Oil-state Democrats had wanted such limits.
The bill calls for criminal penalties of up to $150 million for corporations and up to $2 million and a jail sentence of up to 10 years for individuals found to be engaged in price gouging.
Opponents said the legislation was too vague and amounts to price controls.
"I don't know what `unconscionable excessive' means," Rep. Joe Barton (news, bio, voting record), R-Texas, complained, referring to a phrase that would trigger a price gouging prosecution.
Barton said today's high gasoline prices are the result of supply and demand and not price gouging. "Demand has gone up and supply has not gone up. ... and the price has gone up," said Barton.
The White House said the administration "strongly opposes" the bill and the president would be urged to veto it if it passes Congress.
It "would harm consumers, the very people the bill is touted to protect," said a White House statement to lawmakers. It said price gouging legislation would amount to "price controls and in some cases bring back long gas lines reminiscent of the 1970s."
Oil company lobbyists have argued that when there are tight markets and rising prices, the vague gouging definition would inhibit refiners and retailers from adding supplies for fear of being taken to court.
"Mom and Pop grocer and gasoline station owners can't wonder what every court is going to decide," said Rep. Roy Blunt (news, bio, voting record), R-Mo., the minority whip. He said the law would create "undue hardship for ... people trying to make a living."
But the bill's supporters argued that states can't combat energy price gouging, leaving motorists at the whim of arbitrary oil company pricing. Twenty-nine states currently have energy price gouging laws, but they vary in detail and under in terms of what conditions would trigger them.
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[SIZE=2]By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer [/SIZE]44 minutes ago 
 
 
 
WASHINGTON - The House, eager to do something about record high gasoline prices in advance of the Memorial Day weekend, voted narrowly Wednesday to approve stiff penalties for those found guilty of gasoline price gouging. 
 
The bill directs the Federal Trade Commission and Justice Department to go after oil companies, traders or retail operators if they take "unfair advantage" or charge "unconscionably excessive" prices for gasoline and other fuels.
The White House called the measure a form of price controls that could result in fuel shortages. It said [URL="http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=President+Bush"][COLOR=#003399]President Bush[/COLOR][/URL] would be urged to veto the legislation should it pass Congress.
The bill needed the approval of two-thirds of the members of the House because the leadership considered it under an expedited legislative process. Thus, the 284-141 vote was only one over the threshold for passage. A similar measure is being considered by the Senate.
The bill would for the first time create a federal law making energy price gouging illegal. It would cover not only gasoline, but also other fuels such as natural gas and heating oil.
Rep. Bart Stupak ([URL="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/politics/news/ap/ap_on_go_co/gasoline_prices_congress/23118560/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22Bart%20Stupak%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw"][COLOR=#003399]news[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/capadv/bio/ap/ap_on_go_co/gasoline_prices_congress/23118560/SIG=117f3fcqi/*http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/bio/?id=312"][COLOR=#003399]bio[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/capadv/vote/ap/ap_on_go_co/gasoline_prices_congress/23118560/SIG=11gbsegeq/*http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/bio/keyvotes/?id=312"][COLOR=#003399]voting record[/COLOR][/URL]), D-Mich., its chief sponsor, in urging his colleagues to support the bill said the issue was whether "to side with Big Oil (or) ... side with consumers who are being ripped off at the gas pump."
But Stupak was forced to soften the bill so that he could get it passed by requiring a president to first declare an energy emergency before the anti-gouging law could be enforced. Oil-state Democrats had wanted such limits.
The bill calls for criminal penalties of up to $150 million for corporations and up to $2 million and a jail sentence of up to 10 years for individuals found to be engaged in price gouging.
Opponents said the legislation was too vague and amounts to price controls.
"I don't know what `unconscionable excessive' means," Rep. Joe Barton ([URL="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/politics/news/ap/ap_on_go_co/gasoline_prices_congress/23118560/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22Joe%20Barton%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw"][COLOR=#003399]news[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/capadv/bio/ap/ap_on_go_co/gasoline_prices_congress/23118560/SIG=117gacakr/*http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/bio/?id=559"][COLOR=#003399]bio[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/capadv/vote/ap/ap_on_go_co/gasoline_prices_congress/23118560/SIG=11gf7gt4f/*http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/bio/keyvotes/?id=559"][COLOR=#003399]voting record[/COLOR][/URL]), R-Texas, complained, referring to a phrase that would trigger a price gouging prosecution.
Barton said today's high gasoline prices are the result of supply and demand and not price gouging. "Demand has gone up and supply has not gone up. ... and the price has gone up," said Barton.
The White House said the administration "strongly opposes" the bill and the president would be urged to veto it if it passes Congress.
It "would harm consumers, the very people the bill is touted to protect," said a White House statement to lawmakers. It said price gouging legislation would amount to "price controls and in some cases bring back long gas lines reminiscent of the 1970s."
Oil company lobbyists have argued that when there are tight markets and rising prices, the vague gouging definition would inhibit refiners and retailers from adding supplies for fear of being taken to court.
"Mom and Pop grocer and gasoline station owners can't wonder what every court is going to decide," said Rep. Roy Blunt ([URL="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/politics/news/ap/ap_on_go_co/gasoline_prices_congress/23118560/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22Roy%20Blunt%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw"][COLOR=#003399]news[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/capadv/bio/ap/ap_on_go_co/gasoline_prices_congress/23118560/SIG=117o0i96v/*http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/bio/?id=357"][COLOR=#003399]bio[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/capadv/vote/ap/ap_on_go_co/gasoline_prices_congress/23118560/SIG=11g9vor4s/*http://yahoo.capwiz.com/y/bio/keyvotes/?id=357"][COLOR=#003399]voting record[/COLOR][/URL]), R-Mo., the minority whip. He said the law would create "undue hardship for ... people trying to make a living."
But the bill's supporters argued that states can't combat energy price gouging, leaving motorists at the whim of arbitrary oil company pricing. Twenty-nine states currently have energy price gouging laws, but they vary in detail and under in terms of what conditions would trigger them.
CaoboyMay 24, 2007
#62166
how can it be price gouging when it's competing with other companies? this probably isn't going to fly....but if it does, that will be great. rumor on CL was that gas was going up 82 cents over the next four years?
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how can it be price gouging when it's competing with other companies? this probably isn't going to fly....but if it does, that will be great. rumor on CL was that gas was going up 82 cents over the next four years?
elpresidenteMay 24, 2007
#62230
Caoboy;62166 wrote:how can it be price gouging when it's competing with other companies? this probably isn't going to fly....but if it does, that will be great. rumor on CL was that gas was going up 82 cents over the next four years?

I remember when gas was under a dollar.
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[QUOTE=Caoboy;62166]how can it be price gouging when it's competing with other companies? this probably isn't going to fly....but if it does, that will be great. rumor on CL was that gas was going up 82 cents over the next four years?[/QUOTE]
I remember when gas was under a dollar.
BOSOZOKUMay 24, 2007
#62239
what i heard is $4 by next month and $5 towards the end of the summer. it's killing me.. 15mpg if i drive slow and i have to use (at least) premium with my high comp euro motor.. i really don't think thier is a solution. lowering the prices will only lead people to be less conservative with thier fuel whilst overlooking the supply/demand problem. last i heard, america uses a MASSIVE amount of fuel per day. an unreal figure. an alternative fuel has to become available soon. in 50 years or less oil will probably be long gone. and with populations rising, were all fvcked. nature has a cycle, and eventually it will thin the heard. that's the only solution.
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what i heard is $4 by next month and $5 towards the end of the summer.  it's killing me..  15mpg if i drive slow and i have to use (at least) premium with my high comp euro motor..  i really don't think thier is a solution.  lowering the prices will only lead people to be less conservative with thier fuel whilst overlooking the supply/demand problem.  last i heard, america uses a MASSIVE amount of fuel per day.  an unreal figure.  an alternative fuel has to become available soon.  in 50 years or less oil will probably be long gone.  and with populations rising, were all fvcked.  nature has a cycle, and eventually it will thin the heard.  that's the only solution.
DriftGirlMay 24, 2007
#62240
someone had to step up for the consumers.

Individual states will never impose on the price of gas because its revenue via tax. The higher the gas...the more tax u pay on the amount u buy.

The refineries cut capacity output back during the summer for repairs (they claim) and cut their output...very shady practice.

If you notice they used to blame it on the cost of crude oil....which simply isnt the case anymore. they dont refine the oil that they buy to create a 'demand'. ...economics 101

I do have a bit of stock in a couple petro companies. I figure Id get my 'gas money' back somehow :thumbsup:

If any other industry did this to manipulate their holdings, they'd be in big trouble.


as far as price gouging on the local levels: when competition drives the price UP...uh, thats a no, no



aaand, the price of any fuel will go up. look at E85. if its supposed to be so cheap to make and such abundant resources for its manufacturers...why does it rival the price of conventional gasoline? E85 was OVER $3 per gallon last summer in some areas of the US.
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someone had to step up for the consumers. 
 
Individual states will never impose on the price of gas because its revenue via tax. The higher the gas...the more tax u pay on the amount u buy. 
 
The refineries cut capacity output back during the summer for repairs (they claim) and cut their output...very shady practice. 
 
If you notice they used to blame it on the cost of crude oil....which simply isnt the case anymore.  they dont refine the oil that they buy to create a 'demand'. ...economics 101 
 
I do have a bit of stock in a couple petro companies. I figure Id get my 'gas money' back somehow :thumbsup: 
 
If any other industry did this to manipulate their holdings, they'd be in big  trouble. 
 
 
as far as price gouging on the local levels: when competition drives the price [B]UP[/B]...uh, thats a no, no 
 
 
 
aaand, the price of [B]any[/B] fuel will go up. look at E85. if its supposed to be so cheap to make and such abundant resources for its manufacturers...why does it rival the price of conventional gasoline? E85 was OVER $3 per gallon last summer in some areas of the US.
BOSOZOKUMay 24, 2007
#62326
i know! wtf? i thought E85 was supposed to be $2.50 at the highest. and yeah, the refineries are definatley to blame. your right to be suspicious. i've heard alot about how the refining process is driving up the prices. but how so? is it now harder to refine crude? does it take more time and involve a more complicated process? what i think is funny is that i can go out and buy a 55 gallon drum of toluene and it balances out to appx $3/gallon. toluene is supposed to be in a much smaller quantity than gasoline in the refining process not to mention it's much higher quality, burns cleaner, and has an octane rating of 114, but has the characteristics of something closer to 150 octane! it's what the formula one teams used in the 80's. a destroked 4AGE @ 1.5L with a monster single turbo running 60-80psi generating 1,000-1,500hp. someone explain to me why i can buy toluene for a little less than weak sauce 91 pump gas if the refining is whats driving the costs up?
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i know!  wtf?  i thought E85 was supposed to be $2.50 at the highest.  and yeah, the refineries are definatley to blame.  your right to be suspicious.  i've heard alot about how the refining process is driving up the prices.  but how so?  is it now harder to refine crude?  does it take more time and involve a more complicated process?  what i think is funny is that i can go out and buy a 55 gallon drum of toluene and it balances out to appx $3/gallon.  toluene is supposed to be in a much smaller quantity than gasoline in the refining process not to mention it's much higher quality, burns cleaner, and has an octane rating of 114, but has the characteristics of something closer to 150 octane!  it's what the formula one teams used in the 80's.  a destroked 4AGE @ 1.5L with a monster single turbo running 60-80psi generating 1,000-1,500hp.  someone explain to me why i can buy toluene for a little less than weak sauce 91 pump gas if the refining is whats driving the costs up?
zion_97May 24, 2007
#62340
elpresidente;62230 wrote:I remember when gas was under a dollar.


No ****...The cheapest I remember paying for gas is .85 cents..i guess this shows are age:thumbsup: LOL
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[quote=elpresidente;62230]I remember when gas was under a dollar.[/quote]
 
No ****...The cheapest I remember paying for gas is .85 cents..i guess this shows are age:thumbsup: LOL