Help Settle the Debate - SEMA Survey

The admins have been nice enough to post a sticky about the [I][COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"][SIZE="2"]SEMA VIP Survey[/SIZE][/COLOR][/I]. But, we are looking to have more people chime in. With a few thousand members and hundreds of active ones we're hoping for a large response. This section looks like the proper place to keep the debate going.

If you have already participated, thank you! The aftermarket truely apprecites your thoughts.

If you have not, please go [URL="http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB226M8SEM3Z3"][SIZE="6"][COLOR="Red"]HERE[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL] 

Also, this is for EVERYONE - passers by and purists!

One thing I found a little confusing about the survey is the fact that the first set of questions pertains to the styling aspects of VIP, then when the pictures came up it just asks if "Is this VIP?" So are we trying to find out about the style or about the cars?
 
And most and I hope most of our members already should know the difference of being VIP styled and having a VIP car.

yeah that survey is a little misleading in that way, and I believe that the majority of the questions are basically aimed liked that, is this VIP, would you see this on something VIP, can you make this VIP, I feel like I was being tested for endurance of n00b questions about their cars!

the questions should've been asked more like:
 
"Is this a VIPstyled car?"
"Is this a VIPcar?"
 
those are two totally different aspects pertaining to both a "VIP-inspired/styled" ride and a car's chassis referred to as a "VIPcar."
 
maybe SEMA should clear that up a bit? *shrug*

[QUOTE=PagongLS;72400]One thing I found a little confusing about the survey is the fact that the first set of questions pertains to the styling aspects of VIP, then when the pictures came up it just asks if "Is this VIP?" So are we trying to find out about the style or about the cars?
 
And most and I hope most of our members already should know the difference of being VIP styled and having a VIP car.[/QUOTE]
This is one of the reasons for creating this survey - to gauge consumer perspective. Many people assume there are simple guidelines that dictate what VIP is or is not. As you can see from the numerous threads the parameters are not always black and white. You are asked to give your opinion about how [B]BOTH [/B] elements work together (car and style). 

The rateable pictures have been selected because they test the boundaries. Obviously, some of the elements found on the cars DO NOT follow the criteria, but others straddle the fence.

[quote=SEMA;72418]This is one of the reasons for creating this survey - to gauge consumer perspective. Many people assume there are simple guidelines that dictate what VIP is or is not. As you can see from the numerous threads the parameters are not always black and white. You are asked to give your opinion about how [B]BOTH [/B]elements work together (car and style). 
 
The rateable pictures have been selected because they test the boundaries. Obviously, some of the elements found on the cars DO NOT follow the criteria, but others straddle the fence.[/quote]
 
both elements don't necessarily work together as far as making a car "VIP." your car's chassis code is either a recognized VIPcar or NOT a recognized VIPcar. VIPstyle can pertain to nearly any other vehicle (preferably 4-door) that has followed the "basic" guidelines (common mods) associated with VIPstyling...[B]OR[/B]...an individual can have a VIPstyled VIPcar.
 
a car cannot (or at least, should not) be labeled as being "VIP"...that phrase takes the terminology into a whole different perspective and that is what seems to be confusing many Westerners.

[QUOTE=|crash|™;72416]the questions should've been asked more like:
 
"Is this a VIPstyled car?"
"Is this a VIPcar?"
 
those are two totally different aspects pertaining to both a "VIP-inspired/styled" ride and a car's chassis referred to as a "VIPcar."
 
maybe SEMA should clear that up a bit? *shrug*[/QUOTE]


The reason it was phrased "Is this VIP?" is because the mandatory elements to VIP tuning are the customizations. A stock Lexus GS(Aristo) is not a VIP car, it is a Luxury Sedan. The design direction a vehicles takes [I]after[/I] alterations are made determine how it is labeled. A Lexus GS can be classified in multiple ways depending on how it is customized. The important difference is not [B]VIP vs. VIP Styled[/B], but rather [B]VIP vs. DUB vs. JLUG vs. etc.[/B] 

Thanks for the comments. Fire away!

[quote=SEMA;72425]The reason it was phrased "Is this VIP?" is because the mandatory elements to VIP tuning are the customizations. A stock Lexus GS(Aristo) is not a VIP car, it is a Luxury Sedan. The design direction a vehicles takes [I]after[/I] alterations are made determine how it is labeled. A Lexus GS can be classified in multiple ways depending on how it is customized. The important difference is not [B]VIP vs. VIP Styled[/B], but rather [B]VIP vs. DUB vs. JLUG vs. etc.[/B] 
 
Thanks for the comments. Fire away![/quote]
 
 
no firing, just clarification and this clarified it for me!!!

[quote=SEMA;72425]The reason it was phrased "Is this VIP?" is because the mandatory elements to VIP tuning are the customizations. A stock Lexus GS(Aristo) is not a VIP car, it is a Luxury Sedan.
 
Thanks for the comments. Fire away![/quote]
 
I [I]kind of[/I] see where you're coming from, but even a stock Lexus GS chassis is still (in the VIPcar/VIPstyle world) a RECOGNIZED VIPcar. after the appropriate customizations take place (given that it's following VIPstyle roots) it becomes a VIPstyled VIPcar. The black Falken (Auto Luxury) RX-7 may be classified as a [B]VIPstyled[/B] car, but is [B]NOT[/B] and never will be a recognized VIPcar per say. I hope this is clear enough.
 
I know this may not be what you're concerned about, but to me, I think the distinction between VIPcar and VIPstyle should still be made clear to those who are new to the scene.

[QUOTE=|crash|™;72427]  I think the distinction between VIPcar and VIPstyle should still be made clear to those who are new to the scene.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree that many distinctions needs to be made. But, our main focus is to illustrate that the differences between a Lexus LS (Celsior) and Scion xB (Toyota bB) both done in the VIP tradition will be far less than comparing two LS/Celsiors of which one is VIP and the other is DUB. In other words, in the grand scheme of things a vehicle's platform is less important than how it is customized.

[quote=SEMA;72441]I absolutely agree that many distinctions needs to be made. But, our main focus is to illustrate that the differences between a Lexus LS (Celsior) and Scion xB (Toyota bB) both done in the VIP tradition will be far less than comparing two LS/Celsiors of which one is VIP and the other is DUB. In other words, in the grand scheme of things a vehicle's platform is less important than how it is customized.[/quote]
 
I guess I can understand that.

I was disappointed with the pictures asking "Is this VIP?" but I see why Zack 'SEMA' chose this. This main question is asked to distinguish what is considered VIP in the eyes of the community, new & old members. There are some members who will argue that a Mercedes SL500 is VIP while others will not. We know the term VIP style while other car enthusiasts from other scenes will just know it or call it a general term of "VIP."

[QUOTE=SEMA;72425]The reason it was phrased "Is this VIP?" is because the mandatory elements to VIP tuning are the customizations. A stock Lexus GS(Aristo) is not a VIP car, it is a Luxury Sedan. The design direction a vehicles takes [I]after[/I] alterations are made determine how it is labeled. A Lexus GS can be classified in multiple ways depending on how it is customized. The important difference is not [B]VIP vs. VIP Styled[/B], but rather [B]VIP vs. DUB vs. JLUG vs. etc.[/B] 

Thanks for the comments. Fire away![/QUOTE]

See, but this is where things get misleading.  A stock lexus GS IS a VIP car.  We can go on and on about this all day, you should ask for the VIP styling and not if something is VIP or not.  What makes a car VIP limits it almost completely by its chassis type alone (4dr, rear wheel, luxury, etc), but VIP -style immediately broadens it to just about ANYTHING on wheels that follows the VIP styling criteria (roadscrapper looks, big wheels with stretched tires, widebody, etc).

You, being SEMA and all, need to define it as strictly as you can, seeing that you are the pioneer for all things automotive and everyone (whether they know it or not), will always follow what you say.  

I responded to your survey.  When it came to the pictures section, I answered as truthfully as I can about why some cars are VIP and some cars are not complete with as explicit a reply as I could possibly fit in there.  Well, most of them fell under "no", coz most of them look more like drift cars than anything, but that's besides the point.  

If you post that survey to a Subaru or EVO forum for instance, I bet every member of the 30,000 strong forumers there will probably say "yes" to all the photos you posted and completely askew the survey results.  This is simply coz they saw it at some show that under some remote "VIP" categories that they see all these cars "somewhat" "kinda" represent that "look".  Heck, I just opened a D-Sport magazine today and they were doing a coverage on some show in some US state, and they printed a big "VIP CORNER" over a picture and to my bewilderment, the photo was showing 2 bmw M3s and a lexus IS300.  Ok, they got big wheels....but they are NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT VIP.  Just coz they are expensive cars don't make them VIP.

Oh yeah and that SL500 is NOT VIP.... hur hur hur.... no freakin' way man...

[QUOTE=jtanoyo1;72599]See, but this is where things get misleading.  A stock lexus GS IS a VIP car.  We can go on and on about this all day, you should ask for the VIP styling and not if something is VIP or not.  What makes a car VIP limits it almost completely by its chassis type alone (4dr, rear wheel, luxury, etc), but VIP -style immediately broadens it to just about ANYTHING on wheels that follows the VIP styling criteria (roadscrapper looks, big wheels with stretched tires, widebody, etc).

You, being SEMA and all, need to define it as strictly as you can, seeing that you are the pioneer for all things automotive and everyone (whether they know it or not), will always follow what you say.  

I responded to your survey.  When it came to the pictures section, I answered as truthfully as I can about why some cars are VIP and some cars are not complete with as explicit a reply as I could possibly fit in there.  Well, most of them fell under "no", coz most of them look more like drift cars than anything, but that's besides the point.  

If you post that survey to a Subaru or EVO forum for instance, I bet every member of the 30,000 strong forumers there will probably say "yes" to all the photos you posted and completely askew the survey results.  This is simply coz they saw it at some show that under some remote "VIP" categories that they see all these cars "somewhat" "kinda" represent that "look".  Heck, I just opened a D-Sport magazine today and they were doing a coverage on some show in some US state, and they printed a big "VIP CORNER" over a picture and to my bewilderment, the photo was showing 2 bmw M3s and a lexus IS300.  Ok, they got big wheels....but they are NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT VIP.  Just coz they are expensive cars don't make them VIP.[/QUOTE]


We are doing this survey across many fronts. As of now, there are three groups:

1. General enthusiast
2. VIPStyleCars.com
3. Japan's Luxury/VIP Aftermarket

The purpose will be to illustrate quantitatively that the perception is different from group #1 to #2.  Don't worry, I cringe just as much as you when I see the VIP name pinned to anything luxury based. 


I appreciate your survey comments. The reason I left the picture comment boxes open was to capture your opinions in more depth than "yes, no, maybe". Those just do not cut it for a topic like this.

I was pretty perplexed by the picture part...I ended up saying "yes" to the Fabulous vans, but only because they're Vip styled...they're not actual Vip cars...

Am I correct in assuming you were asking "Is this Vip" about the styling, not the cars?

Yes, the style. Since this seems to be a popular issue, would you guys be more comfortable with the change: "Is this VIP?" ----> "Is this VIP Styled?".

Yes. I was forced to say No on the vans etc, because they were vip styled, not actual vip chassis

[quote=Dominik;72722]Yes. I was forced to say No on the vans etc, because they were vip styled, not actual vip chassis[/quote]I think I did the same as well.

400+ people visited VSC today. Only 40 (roughly) people have contributed so far. 

:saiyancrunks:

ha I wrote in to your survey days ago, but I was too lazy to write much once I got to the picture dissection.  But I wrote whole paragraphs for your asses early on though lol. 


D.

the questions are kinda lame.

seriously I think everyone is sick of "is this vip, is that vip" questions.

VIP is a destinct style that differentiates itself from dub, lowriders and euro tuners. It's origin, heritage and history stem from Japan among these cars:

[B]10 Nissan and Toyota models: Nissan President, Cima, Gloria, Cedric and Fuga; Toyota Celsior, Century, Aristo, Crown and Majesta. That’s it.

[/B]These cars are all V8, rear wheel drive and japanese by origin.This sets the boundaries of VIP. Everyone is encouraged to go outside  the boundaries but this sets the boundaries and clearly defines it's roots.



[quote=SEMA;72793]400+ people visited VSC today. Only 40 (roughly) people have contributed so far. 

:saiyancrunks:[/quote]

What questions would you have rather seen?

hey I took your survey....
 
I like the fact that the piture part had comment boxes, cause almost all my answers were no......but I was able to say why.
 
 
oh yeah, I hope you and Sema have a visual of VIP today...
 
cause some of those cars where like VIP 5 years ago....haha
 
Well, shows like HIN have VIP auto fashion classification which is causing confusion to many that dont know the true VIP.
but like I have said in previous threads, it was coincidential when that happend and VIP became known in the US.
 
I also dont think that SL500 was VIP....no way.
 
it looks like American auto enthusiast are classifiying their expensive cars as VIP......and I bet 50% of the time its done without knowledge that a true VIP style exist.
 
its too bad for us true VIP'ers......hmm maybe we need to incorporate an additional name to go along VIP....like Bippu, to distinguish.:thelaw: 
 
 
and common, take the survey if you havn't already:signdammit: :tongue:

[QUOTE=gato;73033]hey I took your survey....
 
I like the fact that the piture part had comment boxes, cause almost all my answers were no......but I was able to say why.
 
 
oh yeah, I hope you and Sema have a visual of VIP today...
 
cause some of those cars where like VIP 5 years ago....haha
 
Well, shows like HIN have VIP auto fashion classification which is causing confusion to many that dont know the true VIP.
but like I have said in previous threads, it was coincidential when that happend and VIP became known in the US.
 
I also dont think that SL500 was VIP....no way.
 
it looks like American auto enthusiast are classifiying their expensive cars as VIP......and I bet 50% of the time its done without knowledge that a true VIP style exist.
 
its too bad for us true VIP'ers......hmm maybe we need to incorporate an additional name to go along VIP....like Bippu, to distinguish.:thelaw: 
 
 
and common, take the survey if you havn't already:signdammit: :tongue:[/QUOTE]

Thanks! And YES, the list of pictures includes more than VIP cars.  The intent is to test the boundaries.

[URL]http://www.highsocietyvip.com/vipstyle.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=actolex;73050][URL]http://www.highsocietyvip.com/vipstyle.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

???

[quote=SEMA;73054]???[/quote]
 
it's a write-up on the roots and history of the origins behind the terms VIPcar and VIPstyle. good read if you intend on helping the auto enthusiasts around the nation distinguish the difference between a Cadillac Escalade on dubs vs. a traditional VIPcar, the Toyota Celsior (Lexus LS 400), VIPstyled on 19" (max 20") rims and luxury interior overhaul including the many other things associated with VIPstyling (proper suspension, negative camber (for fitment), stretched tires (for fitment), etc.)

[QUOTE=|crash|™;73060]it's a write-up on the roots and history of the origins behind the terms VIPcar and VIPstyle. good read if you intend on helping the auto enthusiasts around the nation distinguish the difference between a Cadillac Escalade on dubs vs. a traditional VIPcar, the Toyota Celsior (Lexus LS 400), VIPstyled on 19" (max 20") rims and luxury interior overhaul including the many other things associated with VIPstyling (proper suspension, negative camber (for fitment), stretched tires (for fitment), etc.)[/QUOTE]

Yes, I understood that to be a write-up. That's Mark Yuen's view. 

I intend to contribute many sides of the story: the Japanese side, the US-mainstream side and the US-VIP Enthusiasts side. 

Is Mark on here?

[quote=SEMA;73078]Yes, I understood that to be a write-up. That's Mark Yuen's view. 
 
I intend to contribute many sides of the story: the Japanese side, the US-mainstream side and the US-VIP Enthusiasts side. 
 
Is Mark on here?[/quote]
 
I believe he is.

[QUOTE=SEMA;73078]Yes, I understood that to be a write-up. That's Mark Yuen's view. 

I intend to contribute many sides of the story: the Japanese side, the US-mainstream side and the US-VIP Enthusiasts side. 

Is Mark on here?[/QUOTE]
I agree with SEMA, that's Mark's swing on things..not the law.  I have had different findings of my own.  Things are often swayed away from how far back the origins REALLY go.  Part of it he listed.  Nothing is ever totally a "new" concept...but rather a concept sprouted from another.  Seems people always forget about that.

Hearing all sides would be nice, but it would also be nice to screen the information for inconsistancies before being published and taken as the law by the US consumer (They love to think they understand everything that comes across their plate).  Misinterpretation is often the killer.  

Yes, Mark is on here...haha, on this thread actually.

[quote=elpresidente;73085]I agree with SEMA, that's Mark's swing on things..not the law. I have had different findings of my own. Things are often swayed away from how far back the origins REALLY go. Part of it he listed. Nothing is ever totally a "new" concept...but rather a concept sprouted from another. Seems people always forget about that.
 
Hearing all sides would be nice, but it would also be nice to screen the information for inconsistancies before being published and taken as the law by the US consumer (They love to think they understand everything that comes across their plate). Misinterpretation is often the killer. 
 
Yes, Mark is on here...haha, on this thread actually.[/quote]
 
 
[COLOR=white]Actually, this was collaboration between myself, John (VSC John), Takatomi from JP, a few editors from VIP Style cars, and my friends at Falken tire.  So it does have my input, but it's definately not "just my swing on things".  It's impossible to screen out all inconsistencies and it's impossible to set a benchmark that can be called "Law".  Ask 20 people and you'll get 10 different answers.....even from the "so called" experts.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ffffff][/COLOR] 
[COLOR=#ffffff]The "style" has influenced modifications to non-VIP platforms which was at first blasted on this forum.  Now, it's accepted a little more....so is that a misinterpretation ???[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=SEMA;72637]Yes, the style. Since this seems to be a popular issue, would you guys be more comfortable with the change: "Is this VIP?" ----> "Is this VIP Styled?".[/QUOTE]


FANTASTIC.  You would have take a HUUUUUUGE MAJOR step in the right direction by redefining that question.  At least, the people who answer will not be confused.

I dunno dont you think that over the years in japan that VIP has changed thorough out the years and that maybe the platforms they used have changed.  Everyone is there own and thats what makes VIP is the person and there own car.  You will start to notice wheels in different colors now and colored lips.  Or some dont even have lips but still look nice.  There is only so much u can do and there isnt really a guide line like how everyone is saying there is.  VIP is a style and everyone puts there own twist in it and that doesnt make it wrong.  Here in the US we are able to put the US twist in it and make it our own.  I think with this servey its just trying to make everything mainstream and blown out of content like how the yakuza's drive these cars and what not or it came from retired drifters... Trust me i heard it all and to be honest i dont know where it came from and i dont care i like to "Style" my cars and put my own twist in it!!!!  I hope that made sense and i dont really think we are qualified to say what is what and if you really want to make this something bring the companies over here like Junction and sessions or k brake to talk about what makes VIP because they are the ones we all look up to....  Just my 2 cents

[quote=AFLS430;73480]I dunno dont you think that over the years in japan that VIP has changed thorough out the years and that maybe the platforms they used have changed. Everyone is there own and thats what makes VIP is the person and there own car...[/quote]
 
Just think that the 2nd gen Soarer was considered by many in Japan as a VIPcar... Now a soarer is in a different class and has no place in a true VIP club.
 
(I still like my SC430 though :smiley: )

Gave my Inpu ton the survey. Best thing is the comment boxes allowing people to elaborate thier opinions. I think maybe you could have had morepics of VIP base platform cars to get a good feel of where everyone is coming from on comparing base platforms to vip styleable platforms.

Just my 1 cent.

[QUOTE=AFLS430;73480]I dunno dont you think that over the years in japan that VIP has changed thorough out the years and that maybe the platforms they used have changed.  Everyone is there own and thats what makes VIP is the person and there own car.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, they have changed.  That was my point as well, so I agree with you.  Especially in the US we can't be limiting ourselves so badly.  I do believe in "[I]some[/I]" basic guidelines..but I think they should be loosely followed and creative input should always be thrown in the mix.  That's how things evolve and maintain growth.  But a 240SX will NEVER be a VIP car..that's the kind of thing I'm talking about with "[I]some[/I]" guidelines.  4 door luxury cars is the basis..now I said luxury, not Grandma's Camry and not Dad's Altima.  Sedans from Mercedes, Jaguar, and other sedans from Toyota like the late model Chaser and MKII (JZX100 chassis line).  These fall into the VIP car line to me and should not be left out because a few people say they should be.  But these concepts are just how I feel about it all.  That's all.

Some things said here are not 100% true. One of the reasons VIP grew was the culture around the German cars that previously dominated the market in Japan for that price category before the Celsiors and Cimas of the world were built. In the old days dignitaries or luxury tuners were almost always seen driving Mercedes, even older than that they were driving Cadillacs. My point is that many of you seem to think VIP is something that has only recently become popular because of it's Japanese origins. All of the oldest VIP tuners started tuning cars with W126 and W124 styled parts earlier than that. If you look at companies like WALD and Junction Produce, their link to Mercedes is undeniable. I am not trying to start an Euro poke v. VIP debate; but it is evident that the oldest Poke cars that pre date VIP had a definite impact on the growth of all those early first generation VIP participants. VIP has always been an attempt at putting together domestic cars in a uniquely Japanese way to mimic the imported ones that were no longer favored in that market. The original VIP car for anyone aged over 50 is the w126 Mercedes.

Go look at the old black and white Japanese movies and you will see what I mean about Cadillacs and Mercedes'.

[QUOTE=TrueslideXL;78320]Some things said here are not 100% true. One of the reasons VIP grew was the culture around the German cars that previously dominated the market in Japan for that price category before the Celsiors and Cimas of the world were built. In the old days dignitaries or luxury tuners were almost always seen driving Mercedes, even older than that they were driving Cadillacs. My point is that many of you seem to think VIP is something that has only recently become popular because of it's Japanese origins. All of the oldest VIP tuners started tuning cars with W126 and W124 styled parts earlier than that. If you look at companies like WALD and Junction Produce, their link to Mercedes is undeniable. I am not trying to start an Euro poke v. VIP debate; but it is evident that the oldest Poke cars that pre date VIP had a definite impact on the growth of all those early first generation VIP participants. VIP has always been an attempt at putting together domestic cars in a uniquely Japanese way to mimic the imported ones that were no longer favored in that market. The original VIP car for anyone aged over 50 is the w126 Mercedes.

Go look at the old black and white Japanese movies and you will see what I mean about Cadillacs and Mercedes'.[/QUOTE]
I brought up this same point a while ago in another thread, about the European car influence (particularly Benz) on the world of VIP and also a good write up in my Blog (which they are now trying to fix the blog system here).  When they get it back up you can check it out.  But I agree with you as well, Cadillac not so much, but I do mention Cadillac since some styling cues (like tail lights on the Majesta and other hints here and there) are evident on VIP chassis cars..but it has only to do with the chassis, not VIP.  Just the fact that these cars were then used for VIP is the connection..but the manufacturer did not produce the car with VIP in mind.

I know what your talking about but dont u think every where in the world that they see like there expensive cars in there country and try to make the car they have similar in some sense?

Lets go back to 94 import tuner scene.  Didnt everyone want a Nissan Skyline but they couldnt afford it so they made there cars look like it?

How about making your Fiero look like a Lambo and what not.  Looking at now dont u see people doing Lambo doors because they cant afford the lambo but at least they can have something it has?

In Japan getting anything that is IMPORTED to them cost more money.  When i was in the Lowrider scene we use to sell American cars to our friends in Japan for waaaaaaaaaay more then what we got it for and if u see some of there cars they had then was lowrider but used there japanese cars because not everyone could pay that much for a Implala.

Even though we are from different parts of the world everyone in the car scene seems to be follow the trends.  Such as Drifting when we all thought Japanese cars are better but then some came out with Vipers and GTOs and Mustangs but did that make it bad?  Its what people make it to be and everything happens because all the people that wanted to be different made a difference in the car scene.  Like i said before EVERYONE IS THERE OWN AND U JUST HAVE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN... Because even if u build an american brand car to be VIP and looks like it would of came from japan i wouldnt knock it.  No one will know where it came from and what platforms is considered VIP thats why i said bring people from japan that are in the scene and let them tell there thoughts and not from some guy that buys a car and says hes VIP and not the source were things came from!  Seems to me that everyone is a VIP shop or VIP car driver but where is the love to the people that brought this out and made this what it is today?

LL COOL JAY Said it best " Respect to be respected dont forget who was here in the begining and still is here till the end.  I been here for years and you wont see me making the band so recognize who brought this shit and Respect!"

Nicely put Freddie.

I know where you're coming from Freddie...you and I come from the same circle, remember?

Why do you think I choose to do cars that aren't typical?  I choose what I think is hot.  I produce something my friends in Japan (who are into VIP) would appreciate and respect, but I don't necessarily follow any set in stone guidelines or do exactly as they would.  It's also about my style and my views.

There are "basic" guidelines, but to me that's it.  The trends don't effect me too much, I follow them for business, but I also have my opinions on how things have changed and are changing.  I do as I wish and build how I want to....

And for the record..LL is the man.
"I think when you move past your fear and you go after your dreams wholeheartedly, you become free."

i guess i should have read the thread before taking the survey, as it seems that i take a too traditional view of what is and isn't VIP. in my mind, a vip car is only a car from the limited chassis selection; that's what makes it special, only a few cars are truly VIP.  anything can be VIP style, lots of those vans looked great, but i said no because they are not VIP chassis. 

i would have said YES if a picture of a stock 1990 celsior were included, because it is a true VIP car.

now after reading the thread, i see that what you are really after is "what is VIP style"?

i just don't like anything other than the true VIP chassis cars to be called VIP because then VIP loses it's exclusivity.  

it's all in the small details. using a 20" wheel on a UCF10 doesn't carrry true VIp style to me because it lifts the car off the ground, even though the wheel is tucked at the top, it's higher off the ground than it should be.