Too Low? "Lexus upper control arm related"

Okay,this thread is relative to "volkgt7" thread.Some of us Lexus owners have problems of riding too low and having the upper control arm hitting the fender wells.a way to resolve this problem is to cut a hole on the strut tower.My car is on bags,so when its fully deflated,does that mean my car is resting on the upper control arm?and therefore limiting me from going any lower?if so,I could cut a hole and get lower.right?

BFH time...

there is no such thing as TOO LOW....stop being a bitch and grab that big fuckin hammer...just kidding ahahah....cut it and tell us what happens.

well whats stoping me from doing it is because im affraid when i get the Junction Produce kit,it'll hang too low and i wouldn't be able to fully deflate the bags and risk damaging the bumper.I'm using "aristo93" car as an example.
[IMG]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/biggie86/JPGS300low.jpg[/IMG]
and his car is pretty low,but not as low as mines.maybe i should just wait till i get the kit.:shrug:

His car is also on coli-overs and dosen't drive that low!
W/ air you'll be fine! Jus pay attention when dropping it'll level out!

Are you on stock wheels??If you are then that may part of your problem.When you have Air on a first gen normally the tire will sit on the inner fender which will stop the amount of travel when dropped.When I had air on my last 147 I could slam my car on the 20's it would tuck with no issues.I wouldn't worry too much until you get your wheels on..

[QUOTE=BIGGZ JZS147;119783]Okay,this thread is relative to "volkgt7" thread.Some of us Lexus owners have problems of riding too low and having the upper control arm hitting the fender wells.a way to resolve this problem is to cut a hole on the strut tower.My car is on bags,so when its fully deflated,does that mean my car is resting on the upper control arm?and therefore limiting me from going any lower?if so,I could cut a hole and get lower.right?[/QUOTE]


you wil hear a loud metal clunk when it hits. if u have to ask you most likely are not driving low enough for this to happen. u can look inside your wheelwells above the control arm and check for impact. i know u can sit on rim on 19 with no mods on coils because i was sitting on rim on 18's with my control arms bottomed out. yep, i actually drove that way:shrug: . not 4 long tho!!!
if the car is just resting it probably not a problem. its the impact form driving that can break things
-martin

Edit: if your car cant sit on rim on 18-19 when deflated, the air setup is what is limiting your drop. not the control arm

take the tire off, air out the bag, put a jack under the lower control arm and jack it up all the way, and look to see if it really hits.... im pretty sure (well at least for my ucf11) the upper control arm hits, actually its the upper ball joint that hits, when it does hit, the rim is like 1/2" from the fender... when i do bag my car, im gonna cut a hole for the ball joint, and lay out enough for the fender to kiss the rim..... hope this helps

:biggthumpup:

This seems to be a very abundant problem with many Lexus owners. There are a couple of different ways to attack the problem. The first would be the most cost friendly way which would be like stated above to cut a hole into the engine bay area to allow the ball joint to pass through. The pros of this are diy friendly and simple solution to get the car lower. The cons are rust, structural integrity, water being splashed into the engine bay. The second alternative would be to create a upper arm that would be essentially allow more clearance then the stock arm IE. something similar to a youzeland or nagisa-auto upper control arm. The last and most cost effective would be to shorten the whole spindle assembly (something mini truck guys have been doing for years) With this method you will be able to dial in the exact height you want where the suspension bottoms out. Being that the stock spindles are cast, you will need to recreate the whole spindle assembly which at that point you will be into $1000's just on your front suspension only.

yup... still cutting the hole:signdammit: 

you can box out and  weld the hole. check the pic in my thread= good structural rigididity+no water splash

Sure but who really knows how rigid the welds are and if it will rust or not?

good body shop should be able to do it right

Looks pretty hacked up from the pics I saw in the other thread, but I guess if your not worried about rust or don't mind having an out of place box in your engine bay go for it! Btw, how much do you think It would cost to do something like that?

good body shop should be able to do it right

[QUOTE=volkgt7;120089]you wil hear a loud metal clunk when it hits. if u have to ask you most likely are not driving low enough for this to happen. u can look inside your wheelwells above the control arm and check for impact. i know u can sit on rim on 19 with no mods on coils because i was sitting on rim on 18's with my control arms bottomed out. yep, i actually drove that way:shrug: . not 4 long tho!!!
if the car is just resting it probably not a problem. its the impact form driving that can break things
-martin

Edit: if your car cant sit on rim on 18-19 when deflated, the air setup is what is limiting your drop. not the control arm[/QUOTE]

when i ride low,like 90psi up front,then thats when it hits.even on small bumps.my ride hieght psi is 95ish front and 60ish rear.to some that may seem low,but it sucks when knowing that i could go much lower.oh well.also,are you saying when i get my 19's i won't be having that problem anymore?and instead of the control arm hitting,the tire will be rubbing.if true,then i wouldnt need to make a hole.

[QUOTE=mista808;120112]take the tire off, air out the bag, put a jack under the lower control arm and jack it up all the way, and look to see if it really hits.... im pretty sure (well at least for my ucf11) the upper control arm hits, actually its the upper ball joint that hits, when it does hit, the rim is like 1/2" from the fender... when i do bag my car, im gonna cut a hole for the ball joint, and lay out enough for the fender to kiss the rim..... hope this helps[/QUOTE]

well today i'll take off the tire not to check if it hits.because i know it does.but i noticed when deflating the front bags anything after 60psi,the car doesn't get any lower.just to see if the car is actually resting on the control arm.

[QUOTE=BIGGZ JZS147;120203]when i ride low,like 90psi up front,then thats when it hits.even on small bumps.my ride hieght psi is 95ish front and 60ish rear.to some that may seem low,but it sucks when knowing that i could go much lower.oh well.also,are you saying when i get my 19's i won't be having that problem anymore?and instead of the control arm hitting,the tire will be rubbing.if true,then i wouldnt need to make a hole.[/QUOTE]


i am just saying. if u took off the air suspension or coilover,put the wheel back on, and dropped the car onto te he ground so the control arms bottomed out on the upper wheel well you wil be at LEAST tucking rim on 19's. the rest has to do with setup

even if the control arm does not bottom out when u are aired out it could hit when forced upwards by hitting a bump if you are driving low

I actually thought of another way, that might look a bit neater in the engine bay, but definitely involves welding...
 
Instead of cutting a hole, and then making a box to go over that... what about cutting a |_| into the top of the strut tower, so that the bottom of the "C" shape is facing out towards the fender.
 
Then pry up that flap about 2-3cm and weld a triangle wedge on each side and a small rectangle on the fender side. The result would be a wedge-looking box that matches the shape of the UCA when it would have hit...
 
You could even putty up the sides to make i kinda smooth, then paint over and it would look OEM

thats wsup.... i am gonna probably have the body shop  do it that way... or i might just leave it looking hacked up... who cares LOL!!

ugh
you guys are retarded with this hole stuff
when i do the wives car sometime soon ill show you how to do it
you build a little channel around the arm so it can travel up and you odnt have holes.
 
dom beat me to it
this is how we do it in japan, no holes and shit lol

[QUOTE=Yokotas13;120452]ugh
you guys are retarded with this hole stuff
when i do the wives car sometime soon ill show you how to do it
you build a little channel around the arm so it can travel up and you odnt have holes.
 
dom beat me to it
this is how we do it in japan, no holes and shit lol[/QUOTE]

some of us are new to this and dont live in japan OK?!?!!!!:runcoold: 
very eagar to see how its done the right way. thank you!:giggity: :giggity: :dance: :dance:

its not about htat, i know it was in a few mags a while back in the US too....i soetime flip thorugh them in disgust at the BX.

[QUOTE=Yokotas13;120452]ugh
you guys are retarded with this hole stuff
when i do the wives car sometime soon ill show you how to do it
you build a little channel around the arm so it can travel up and you odnt have holes.
 
dom beat me to it
this is how we do it in japan, no holes and shit lol[/QUOTE]

Actually I've seen the lowest celsiors in vip mags that have holes under the engine bay to allow the arm to pop through. It seems to me It's a pretty common thing to do in Japan.

every one ive seen has been boxed in and welded
ive never seen one with jsut a hole.

I don't see why you wouldn't box it in.. it looks cleaner, and definitely helps reduce the likelyhood of problems later on.

[QUOTE=Yokotas13;120552]every one ive seen has been boxed in and welded
ive never seen one with jsut a hole.[/QUOTE]


Yep, looking through mags and its how they usually do it.

[QUOTE=Yokotas13;120552]every one ive seen has been boxed in and welded
ive never seen one with jsut a hole.[/QUOTE]

Cool, my magazines were a little older so maybe no one gave a shit. 

If anyone want's scans lmk. They are mostly of celsiors tho.

I could use some visual examples.

how come theres so many people speculating "problems" later on?
are these what you "guess" would happen? or did it actually happen?

i dont get your post

I have a hole cut in mine and made a dome to cover up the hole.

[quote=tiNy;121320]I have a hole cut in mine and made a dome to cover up the hole.[/quote]
 

post up some pics:slap::biggthumpup:

PLEEZ

This is on a honda accord

[IMG]http://a515.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/97/l_a36c8a5c0e261707cfa55fce5d27552a.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://a332.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/92/l_dbc82cc6c1cc1662e0a381651052dc3b.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://a52.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/124/l_c4b71c8418fc47f6e723f7310bdf2f73.jpg[/IMG]

y would you need to do that on an accord? my boy had a 97 with 19's sitting on rim front and rear  and the control arms did not hit...  good job btw!:biggthumpup:

I had 20 HRE w/ Tein SS and I was hitting the control arm at every pothole. So when I bagged my car we cut the hole so I wouldn't have to deal with it.

my buddy is gonna have the same suspension setup with the same size wheels. he is probably going to leave out  one of the collars. lets see if he has the same problem

i took some pix of what i did and how low i got my car to sit..
i no longer bottom out anything when i roll the car.

[IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/hahajoey/gs300/01282008086.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/hahajoey/gs300/01282008085.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/hahajoey/gs300/01282008083.jpg[/IMG]

u can see the the arm actually is sitting thru the hole slightly.
so pretty much it would of been bottom'ed out at this height
even b4 u go for a drive.

What did you cut the hole with?

hole-saw cutting bit.
just make sure u get the one that
can do metal, and go at a slow pace or else
u'll burn up the bit.

Wow, that's not even that low...that sucks that it hits so soon.

[QUOTE=hahajoey;122423]hole-saw cutting bit.
just make sure u get the one that
can do metal, and go at a slow pace or else
u'll burn up the bit.[/QUOTE]

Use some lub. It helps too.

Thanks for the tip, I'm pretty sure I have the tools to do it. How did you figure out where to cut and what's the diameter of the hole? Did you use touch up paint to avoid rust?

i have the same problem but i really hope I dont have to resort to this...

i hate that sound everytime I hear it...and the roads suck here in the midwest with the salt and snow plows.

is there a nipple in the eng bay from where you bottom out? spray some primer so it doesn't rust.

I don't bottom out yet but I plan on doing so. Time to make some nipples. :P

[quote=hahajoey;122414][IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/hahajoey/gs300/01282008086.jpg[/IMG]
[/quote]
that looks much better than the boxing to me. i would go this route and weld in a ring made out of steel tubing if structural integrity was in question.

So how big is that hole? I installed some roll center adapters (SS kit) and now I bottom out at the slightest bump. On the freeway it hits so hard my cds skip. Is it likely that I'll damage my control arms? Because I need to make those nipples so I know where to cut the hole.

I was wondering when the upper ball joint clears the hole does the arm itself end up hitting the ends of the circle?  I'm with chrispy on this trying to figure out what size hole to cut and want to find out more info as well.

if u put a SS kit in. why would it bottom out the suspension? u're only moving the wheel up.. it'll actually let your suspension work 1" higher than you look..

It pushed my front suspension up an inch. I'm also all the way down on my coilovers. The upper control arm is an inch away from the top so I keep bottoming out. I think I'm going to remove the SS kit until I figure out how to make that hole. I can't afford to break my control arms.

the ss kit pushes the wheel up? what does that got to do with your ball joint hitting?
if u remove it won't it become worse?

[quote=hahajoey;125331]the ss kit pushes the wheel up? what does that got to do with your ball joint hitting?
if u remove it won't it become worse?[/quote]

The way it works is that it pushes the wheel up by shifting the suspension up without loosing shock travel. The only way to change the position of the wheel itself without altering any other suspension component is to redesign the spindle itself which the ss kit does not do. It only spaces out the distance between the lower ball joint and the spindle so the rest of the suspension shifts up and location of the lower balljoint in comparison to the ground stays the same I believe. Ive put the ss kit on my ls and this is my observation. The rear is a completely different story though. I can attest to the fact that the upper front control arms are closer to the chassis with the ss kit installed. I also have the dings to prove it.:sad::pat:

[QUOTE=nizzan4u2nv;125339]The way it works is that it pushes the wheel up by shifting the suspension up without loosing shock travel. The only way to change the position of the wheel itself without altering any other suspension component is to redesign the spindle itself which the ss kit does not do. It only spaces out the distance between the lower ball joint and the spindle so the rest of the suspension shifts up and location of the lower balljoint in comparison to the ground stays the same I believe. Ive put the ss kit on my ls and this is my observation. The rear is a completely different story though. I can attest to the fact that the upper front control arms are closer to the chassis with the ss kit installed. I also have the dings to prove it.:sad::pat:[/QUOTE]

So how did you fix your problem? Did you make a hole?

[quote=chrispy;125492]So how did you fix your problem? Did you make a hole?[/quote]
 
I have air so i just roll a little higher.

[QUOTE=nizzan4u2nv;125339]The way it works is that it pushes the wheel up by shifting the suspension up without loosing shock travel. The only way to change the position of the wheel itself without altering any other suspension component is to redesign the spindle itself which the ss kit does not do. It only spaces out the distance between the lower ball joint and the spindle so the rest of the suspension shifts up and location of the lower balljoint in comparison to the ground stays the same I believe. Ive put the ss kit on my ls and this is my observation. The rear is a completely different story though. I can attest to the fact that the upper front control arms are closer to the chassis with the ss kit installed. I also have the dings to prove it.:sad::pat:[/QUOTE]


that is what i figured would happen. thats why i am not getting it. Question, why would you get the ss kit if you have air? if you want proper suspensioin geometry just ride higher. i figured it woul only be desirable for people who ride low on coilovers

[quote=volkgt7;125523]that is what i figured would happen. thats why i am not getting it. Question, why would you get the ss kit if you have air? if you want proper suspensioin geometry just ride higher. i figured it woul only be desirable for people who ride low on coilovers[/quote]

I dont get what youre saying, ss kit does not correct suspension geometry, its just another means of going lower. Theres no point of getting an ss kit if you havent maxed out the height adjustability of your coilovers. Full dumped is 1in lower then what it used to be, who doesnt wanna go lower nowadays? On the youzealand site they show a lot of cars with springs +ss kit and cars with factory air.

if you look into it, it actually fixes the roll center of your car because the suspension does not need to be as compressed to have the  same drop. i just thought your air would allow you to be as low as you need without the ss kit.

[quote=volkgt7;125613]if you look into it, it actually fixes the roll center of your car because the suspension does not need to be as compressed to have the  same drop. i just thought your air would allow you to be as low as you need without the ss kit.[/quote]

I never fully understood roll center dynamics so ill take you word for it.:biggthumpup: My setup is not a traditional bag over shock so it doesnt go as low.

Could people that cut the hole and use their car as their daily chime in please.  I really want to cut the hole because I'm sick of the arm hitting!  My car is my daily and I want to know if anyone had any problems or what not after they cut the hole.  Quick responses would be good as today is my day off and I might just do it today.  

Thanks
Travis

I cut holes in my front wheel wells too. Never had a problem. Ive done it on almost every car ive had and never ever had a problem, daily driving and canyon running. Looks pretty kool on my UCF10 when I fully dump the bags and see the A arms sticking out of the holes :dance:. So go for it! 
 
You can get a hole saw at any hardware store. They call it a hole "saw" but its just a drill attachment that looks like a cup with a bunch of teeth on it. Shouldnt cost more than about $20.

Hey beeguy what size hole saw did you use? 2inch, 2 1/2 inch?

2 1/2

im looking ahead on this, and have a 98 Gs300. my 1st main mod i plan to do as soon as i save cash is coilovers. i probably wont go super low on stockies but i will lower as much as looks okay without looking odd since i have stock wheels.
 
i dont like the idea of cutting an open hole so i would probably approach a bodyshop to do the work. that said it would probably be big $$ and i also dont know of ANY good shops here in western australia.
 
i was therefore considering aftermarket upper arms from someone like Nagisa-Auto etc. I forgot the others but having a look on Yahoo Japan i found about 3-4 companies that do various arms. which are the ones that i need? does anyone have a picture? i cant read japanese so i cant understand what is what. Has anyone bought replacement arms from jap companies and had success with them?
 
cheers for any help on this, as i will probably try to buy the arms and get them put in with the suspension to eliminate the issue

You can look at more-japan.com for pics.  The arms willl help, but no matter what you do, if you go low enough with threaded. Shock body coilovers you will hit your arms. no matter what arms you have in there. You would actually have to shorten the top of the spindle to gain clearance

My friend Pete cut  his a little more than you did...it's on not on air, but hydraulics btw 
[IMG]http://www.artofnoize.com/BTN%20Output/images/Pete%20(1).jpg[/IMG]

Can you get pictures of where he cut it out?

Well, the hole is a "little" bigger since the last pic...and the wheels are 22's now haha

[IMG]http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/simple4door/cars004.jpg?t=1213839962[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/simple4door/cars001.jpg?t=1213840079[/IMG]

W0W!!!!!now thats a BIGG hole!
i hope he aint driving it like that,cuz  that seems really unsafe.or is it not done yet?

Far from being done...

Damn....

He didnt cut a hole, he cut the whole wheel well out haha. Guess thats what it takes to fit 22s on a 2gs.

Damn, thats crazy DUB style!

The rims are too big..  I rather stick 20 instead of 22..

any updates on pics?! i need to get this done soon.

Front is done.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/trefiveincognito/ohdang.jpg[/IMG]

does anyone know if chrispy has done this to his totalled car? also, does anyone know of a shop that will do this in socal?

GOEZ in Anaheim can do this...

I've done it to my car but don't have pics just yet. Still working on my car and don't know if I'll have to cut out more just yet. I'll take some pics soon and post it for ya.

Anyways, I noticed the portion I needed to cut had 2 layers. About 1/2" between the layers. So only the first layer was cut and only noticable from under the fenderwell. So in the engine bay you don't see a hole at this time.

Again that just some info. for you guys. I'll update with pics once I take them.

any update dro?

My car is getting the bags swapped out. When I get it back I'll take pics and post.

Bags are not my cup of tea.  Hydraulics are an awesome alternative.  
[url]http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/simple4door/?action=view&current=tucson033.flv[/url]

Hydros are cool but for the comfort level I like the bags.

TRE 5: Did you finish tubing you ride or still spot welds? If finished you got any update pics?

[QUOTE=hahajoey;122414]i took some pix of what i did and how low i got my car to sit..
i no longer bottom out anything when i roll the car.

[IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/hahajoey/gs300/01282008086.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/hahajoey/gs300/01282008085.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/hahajoey/gs300/01282008083.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Im gonna have to go this route. I have a feeling my car will be able to go alot lower once this is done.:giggity:

this thread needs an update ...... his car is freaking sick now

It's actually not my car...it's my friend's.  The front end is 100% complete.  The front fenders have been completely tubbed, the shock mounts have been raised, the lower control arms have been flipped/switched sides, and the lower subframe crossmember has been notched.  

He now has begun the rear in which the fenders will be tubbed, and the swaybar links will be modified.  The car will lay full body pan on 22's here shortly.  I'll wait to give you guys pics once it's complete.

DRO15 - if you've ever been in a car with hydraulics and accumulators the comfort level surpasses air suspension by far.

I have about 3/4 of an inch to go before the lip sits flush with the fender. If I do this mod do you think I can get an inch out of it? I'm on bags 2gs.

honestly when you start banging the strut tower on a GS you've just started being low. 

everyone does the hole for a temp fix. heres the proper solution.

[IMG]http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6189/6048519584_0000e8716b_z.jpg[/IMG]

NICE! I had to do thesame thing too Chris, I never got a straight answer. Did you have to chop AND cut the hole to achieve your stance? In other words, after chopping the knuckle. Did the UCA still hit when SUPER low? With the camber RCA blocks? I have a set in the mail

When aired out my upper balljoints sit inside the engine bay... I'm on 20" fronts, 38mm chop on the knuckles and cupped strut tower =)

[QUOTE=CubanGS;452871]honestly when you start banging the strut tower on a GS you've just started being low. 

everyone does the hole for a temp fix. heres the proper solution.

[/QUOTE]

This is my next move, cutting the whole only solved my balljoint hitting, the bulkhead now gets in the way.

[QUOTE=Juzzo;452904]When aired out my upper balljoints sit inside the engine bay... I'm on 20" fronts, 38mm chop on the knuckles and cupped strut tower =)[/QUOTE]

Pics? I know this thread is old but there's more talk than pics!

Fo sho!
Here's a few, and after this I went even lower and chopped my knuckles aswell...

[IMG]http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb327/Lord_Juzzo/HPIM4845.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb327/Lord_Juzzo/HPIM4880.jpg[/IMG]

you crazzy juzzo! is your car on the road yet?

Nah not yet, I'd need to finish couple other projects first before I can get the car ready for new paint...

[QUOTE=Juzzo;490169]Nah not yet, I'd need to finish couple other projects first before I can get the car ready for new paint...[/QUOTE]

sounds like my car hopefully my car is finished this year though how long you been building yours?

All started back in -08 when I got the car from Japan... but it's been off the road since -10 when I dipped into the deep end =)

Damn I bet your busting to drive it again!