low dish, hi dish, etc?

can someone explain to me the diff between low dish, hi dish, o dish  etc.... im in the market of buying wheels and kinda confused...  and what else should i take into considerate when ordering wheels.... 

and why is it that when i see two different set of wheels with the same offset, one wheel has a way bigger lip than the other?  can someone explain to me what determines the lip size.. thanks

Disk, not dish. Sometimes referred to as 'pad'.

A higher disk keeps the same offset but puts more space between the back of the face, and the brakes. It's used for clearing larger calipers.

Taller disk = less dish and/or lip. because the face is closer to the outside lip
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/antbo/main_img.jpg[/img]

If you search for "disk height" you will find the other threads about this.

thanks man.. imma search that

High disk for cars w/ Big brake kits
 
Low disk for big lips
 
it really depends on the manufacture though because each wheel manufacture describes disk type diffrent........

whats the most efficient way to clear big brake on the ufc21 and have the biggest lip without having the wheels pop out...low dish, low offset with some spacer?

Just buy hi disk wheels for the front or downgrade to smaller brakes from maybe a gs or 1ls.

If you do low disk with a spacer, you'll have a lower effective offset.

If you do hi disk with no spacer, you'll have the same effective offset, but with less lip/dish

[quote=firelizard;120151]If you do low disk with a spacer, you'll have a lower effective offset.
 
If you do hi disk with no spacer, you'll have the same effective offset, but with less lip/dish[/quote]
 
 
so the first line u say would work and would give me more lip...
 
and is it possible to downgrade to smaller brakes? i would do that anyday to get some lip..

[QUOTE=flexinsteelz;120161]so the first line u say would work and would give me more lip...
 
and is it possible to downgrade to smaller brakes? i would do that anyday to get some lip..[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the first option would give you more lip, but would push the wheel out towards the fender.

Are you sure you need a high disk? Unless you have a BBK, or brakes from a sports car like the Supra or GTR, you may not even need more than a mid-disk in the front, and lo-disk in the rear.

You should measure how far past the mounting surface your caliper sticks out, to find out for certain.

if you run the low disk + spacer you would have a bigger lip if the width remained the same, but to compensate you would have to run a narrower witdh so it would evens out.
 
the distance from the hub to the fender doesn't change so just do it right and order a high/normal disk depending on your brakes.

Actually, it's not true that the offset isn't affected, at least when comparing 
wheels built with the same inner & outer rim components.

Depending on the casting or forging design, comparing (for example)
a low disk VS-XX to a high disk VS-XX... the offsets are different when 
using the same rim halves. Essentially, all a high disk is doing is adding
more material to the backpad of the wheel, allowing for more spoke-to-brake
clearance. Think of it like adding a spacer, but it's built into the wheel.

Typically, the cars I do need a higher disk in the front to clear large brake
calipers, and a lower disk in the rear because there isn't as much brake 
overhang (referred to as "X Factor")  required and you can maximize the
rear lip this way.

Example:

20x9 wheel 
2.5" outer rim and 6.5" inner rim
30mm pad (disk) would result in +27 ET (ample clearance for Brembo, etc.)
10mm pad (disk) would result in +47 ET (but not much brake clearance)

[QUOTE=SoCalSC4;120294]Actually, it's not true that the offset isn't affected, at least when comparing 
wheels built with the same inner & outer rim components.

Depending on the casting or forging design, comparing (for example)
a low disk VS-XX to a high disk VS-XX... the offsets are different when 
using the same rim halves. Essentially, all a high disk is doing is adding
more material to the backpad of the wheel, allowing for more spoke-to-brake
clearance. Think of it like adding a spacer, but it's built into the wheel.

Typically, the cars I do need a higher disk in the front to clear large brake
calipers, and a lower disk in the rear because there isn't as much brake 
overhang (referred to as "X Factor")  required and you can maximize the
rear lip this way.

Example:

20x9 wheel 
2.5" outer rim and 6.5" inner rim
30mm pad (disk) would result in +27 ET (ample clearance for Brembo, etc.)
10mm pad (disk) would result in +47 ET (but not much brake clearance)[/QUOTE]

No, I believe you are incorrect there. I'm fairly certain that the increased disk height is more akin to putting a spacer not between the wheel and hub, but between the mounting surface of the wheel, and the face of the wheel. Same offset, but the face is further from the car's suspension side.

Your last example makes sense, but isn't actually relevant... also doesn't take into account the design of the face, so I don't see how you're getting offsets from those specs.
[img]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2404/diskheightcq2.png[/img]

edit: I think I get what you were saying now... re: using the same barrel pieces. However, it doesn't explain the difference between disk heights with the same offset

Actually, I do this for a living...

If you're comparing the SAME wheel with DIFFERENT pad (disk) heights
and the SAME rim halves, there is simply no way the offset can be the same.

If you're comparing two different wheel styles (i.e. one with a flat face and one with a 
convex bowed face), given the same pad height the one with the bowed face will
generally have more brake clearance. However, the same pad height with the 
same rim halves will net the same offset with either wheel. Trust me...

In your example, you added pad material but reduced the lip to compensate
for it - that works fine, but there's no way to make that low-disk wheel fit 
over the brake caliper without either adjusting the pad & rim parts (keeping
the offset the same) OR adding a spacer, which effectively changes the offset
the same way using a taller pad (disk) would.

This is what I juxtapose every day when engineering wheels - keeping 
the pad heights to a minimum to maximize lip and minimize weight. 
On some cars (like the Lamborghini Gallardo) the rear brake overhang is
greater than the front, making it difficult to get much lip on the rear wheels.


From the SSR catalog, an example:

Professor MS1-R (I just ordered this wheel in 17" for the Hachi)

19x9.0 wheel (example)

Outer Lip = 72mm on all:

SL (super low) disk = 19x9.0 +37 (will have very little caliper clearance)
NR (normal) disk =     19x9.0 +24
MD (medium) disk =   19x9.0 +16
HP (high) disk =         19x9.0 +6 (has the thickest casting for brake clearance,
but also pushes the offset further out in doing this)

If you're spec'ing custom wheels for a car with a big brake kit, you really
need to consult the wheel manufacturer for what will (and won't) work
for your application.

In the case of my Hachi, I had to use a taller pad on the front wheels due to 
the tall spindle (greasecap) those cars have - the extra thickness of the casting 
also allows for more clearance behind the center cap (but less lip).

On the rear wheels I used a super low disk to get a massive 108mm lip.

[QUOTE=SoCalSC4;120430]Actually, I do this for a living...

If you're comparing the SAME wheel with DIFFERENT pad (disk) heights
and the SAME rim halves, there is simply no way the offset can be the same.

If you're comparing two different wheel styles (i.e. one with a flat face and one with a 
convex bowed face), given the same pad height the one with the bowed face will
generally have more brake clearance. However, the same pad height with the 
same rim halves will net the same offset with either wheel. Trust me...

In your example, you added pad material but reduced the lip to compensate
for it - that works fine, but there's no way to make that low-disk wheel fit 
over the brake caliper without either adjusting the pad & rim parts (keeping
the offset the same) OR adding a spacer, which effectively changes the offset
the same way using a taller pad (disk) would.

This is what I juxtapose every day when engineering wheels - keeping 
the pad heights to a minimum to maximize lip and minimize weight. 
On some cars (like the Lamborghini Gallardo) the rear brake overhang is
greater than the front, making it difficult to get much lip on the rear wheels.


From the SSR catalog, an example:

Professor MS1-R (I just ordered this wheel in 17" for the Hachi)

19x9.0 wheel (example)

Outer Lip = 72mm on all:

SL (super low) disk = 19x9.0 +37 (will have very little caliper clearance)
NR (normal) disk =     19x9.0 +24
MD (medium) disk =   19x9.0 +16
HP (high) disk =         19x9.0 +6 (has the thickest casting for brake clearance,
but also pushes the offset further out in doing this)

If you're spec'ing custom wheels for a car with a big brake kit, you really
need to consult the wheel manufacturer for what will (and won't) work
for your application.

In the case of my Hachi, I had to use a taller pad on the front wheels due to 
the tall spindle (greasecap) those cars have - the extra thickness of the casting 
also allows for more clearance behind the center cap (but less lip).

On the rear wheels I used a super low disk to get a massive 108mm lip.[/QUOTE]

yeah... u know your shit u da man!:bowdown: :boweek5: 

very correct and informative

[QUOTE=SoCalSC4;120430]Actually, I do this for a living...etc[/QUOTE]

I think we're in the same chapter, just not the same page.

You're talking about the changes that occur when lip size remains the same, but disk height changes, and I'm talking about the changes when offset remains the same.

I see the difference between both sides ... Very good info to read ... One talking about clearance with brakes on the inner side and other talking about in general ..