Most lip on front of LS430???

When ordering wheels for a 2005 LS430.........
 
 
What is the most aggressive lip I can get and still clear the big OEM brake caliper????
 
I'm looking to get some 20's most likley by 9 or 9.5.
 
I want at least a minimum of 3 inch lip for front.....is this possible???
 
What offset in relationship to width and disc should I get to achieve maximum lip and cear brake??
 
Am I needing High disc only cause of brake??
 
Need your educated input??

Hello young man,

I know a 3" lip is possible, but to make it work it'll depend on the forging or casting 
profile and the desired width/offset combination. The LS 430 has about 37mm of
"X factor" on the front calipers - to clear this you'll really want to have about 40mm
of clearance from the wheels' backpad to the spoke. 

The individual wheel manufacturer should be able to tell you what their range
of offsets for particular pad heights are - that's easy. The trick is finding one 
with an engineer on staff that knows the CAR application and the WHEEL profile
and offset range. Perhaps it's the language barrier, but the Japanese manufacturers
seem to be terrible at this. I have dealt with both Work and SSR and getting technical
answers out of either one is tedious and challenging.

With a standard casting or forging (i.e. the ones most U.S. 3-piece players use)
you can pretty easily clear the LS caliper with a 2.5" lip 20x9.0 +32 (or lower ET) with
a 'medium' pad.  With the same pad height you can do a 3.0" lip with 20x9.0 +19 
(or lower ET), which would look pretty stout on the LS. 

There are other forgings that would actually allow for a 4" lip in the front AND
would have the caliper clearance necessary for the LS. Most of them are either 
radically bowed or have flatter faces with a 90° turn at the outer edge.
My new GS set-up will have a 3.5" front lip and it'll still clear the massive StopTech
calipers... the rear will have a 5.0" lip.

Also, it's worth noting that some wheel manufacturers seem to measure lip depth
differently than others. I've seen some say "incredible 6" lip!" on a wheel that I would
call a 5" lip, so take that for what it's worth. 

The 'correct' way to measure the lip is from the joint at the silicone bead (you'd have to have 
the tire OFF the wheel for this) to the INNER side of the bead - the measurement
should NOT include the bead thickness, which is typically 1/2". Of course, when
assembled, the center covers-up some of the lip, so you can get a decent idea just 
by measuring from the outer edge of the rim down to the center.

Clear as mud, right?

it's going to be hard to get a good lip for the front of a ls430, you'd need to go HIGH DISK and that in itself will take away .5 to 1" lip.

socalsc4 is talking about concaved style faces which would allow for more natural brake caliper clearance, but then you don't want that AME lx style concave face right ? you want that nice, straight, thick style face right ?

Thanks for the input guys.....wow, Bob is very technical.....haha...thick MUD there...
 
 
 
ahhh, I'am beginnig my search for wheels but always hated how most LS owners have a weak lip up front.....hmmmm
 
I'm a huge fan of five star wheels.....but if I went with a full face wheel, it would have to be the flat face.
 
 
So, what exactly determines lip size? is it a combination of offset in relation to width and pad height??:pat: 
 
so, in essence.... i can do a 20x9+19 to +12 and get a 3'' lip out of it? (of course depending on wheel design and pad height) what about disc.......am I looking for high disc, med ect...? is that the same as pad....
 
:signdammit: sorry for all ?'s.... need some professional help! gotta do it right!

delete

I think you can get 2-3 inch (high disk 20x9 +19) with the euroline DH, or the estatus d2 2 piece. those are fairly flat and efficient. 

actually I have a wicked set to match a LS430. I'll PM you.





[quote=gato;139439]Thanks for the input guys.....wow, Bob is very technical.....haha...thick MUD there...
 
 
 
ahhh, I'am beginnig my search for wheels but always hated how most LS owners have a weak lip up front.....hmmmm
 
I'm a huge fan of five star wheels.....but if I went with a full face wheel, it would have to be the flat face.
 
 
So, what exactly determines lip size? is it a combination of offset in relation to width and pad height??:pat: 
 
so, in essence.... i can do a 20x9+19 to +12 and get a 3'' lip out of it? (of course depending on wheel design and pad height) what about disc.......am I looking for high disc, med ect...? is that the same as pad....
 
:signdammit: sorry for all ?'s.... need some professional help! gotta do it right![/quote]

1.  Wheel design - Some wheels provide a lot more lip due to design and disc thickness.  Weds Kranze do not provide a lot of lip compared to Fabulous/SSR Vienna.

2.  Offset - lower offset will give you more lip on 2/3 piece wheels.

3.  Disc choice - Super low disc will provide more than High Disc (for big brake clearance).


AME Shallen LX provide a lot of lip.  Some might call it cheater lip because the spokes curve inward.  I had 19x9 +43 Hi disc and they have 3" of lip on the front of my 929. 

One crazy option to maximize lip would be to downgrade to older LS400 brakes.  You can then run a lower disc and sell your LS430 brake setup.

i think depending on the rim, you could get away w/ a standard disk.  but as for offsets...its up to u on how much u plan on fender modification.  i went w/ a 20x9.5" +* offset.  ;)    I think i got about 2 to 3" lip stepped lip up front.  sorry...i only got this crappy camera phone pic.  hehe...  

[IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/beangrower/teaser.jpg[/IMG]

When I was looking for wheels, I was always told that you must get HIGH DISK up front, to clear the large OEM calipers.  If you want the most lip possible, why dont you go for a smaller width like a 8.5" with lower offset than a 9" or 9.5".  That way you can get MOAR LIP.

racinstylez it doesn't work that way.  Usually if you go down in width and lower the offset the lip difference is negligible.  

Yes you do need High Disc to clear the large calipers on the LS430.

[QUOTE=AME_VIP;139484]racinstylez it doesn't work that way.  Usually if you go down in width and lower the offset the lip difference is negligible.  

Yes you do need High Disc to clear the large calipers on the LS430.[/QUOTE]

lolz...I forgot to take into account disk height :pat:

^^ n00bian

[QUOTE=Qclass;139420]socalsc4 is talking about concaved style faces which would allow for more natural brake caliper clearance, but then you don't want that AME lx style concave face right ? you want that nice, straight, thick style face right ?[/QUOTE]


You mean convex? My Zones are convex, and that bit of extra "bow" on the face
allows the relatively large StopTech calipers to clear the back of the spoke.

These are 20x9.5 with a 2.5" outer lip:
[IMG]http://a633.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/96/l_2cdefb02e84f4bfdb0c8b62d8a1a8eb8.jpg[/IMG]

Ya convex I guess, keep getting them mixed them.

Is that high disk ?

[quote=SoCalSC4;139595]You mean convex? My Zones are convex, and that bit of extra "bow" on the face
allows the relatively large StopTech calipers to clear the back of the spoke.

These are 20x9.5 with a 2.5" outer lip:
[IMG]http://a633.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/96/l_2cdefb02e84f4bfdb0c8b62d8a1a8eb8.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

[QUOTE=Qclass;139624]Ya convex I guess, keep getting them mixed them.

Is that high disk ?[/QUOTE]

I'd consider that a "medium" disk. I can make them 10mm taller
or 20mm lower depending on the application, brake dimension,
and desired offset.

Yah, many "big brake" kits actually allow for more clearance than stock calipers..they may be larger, but in many cases are narrower.  My 6 piston AP's were a prime example.

Here's an idea.

The UCF20 guys have big brakes so some swap smaller brakes from the GS or earlier UCF10's to fit larger lips in the front. I don't know if any other brakes fit the UCF30 though. And I don't know if you're willing to give up your big brakes, or pay more for custom small brakes.

[quote=chrispy;139997]Here's an idea.

The UCF20 guys have big brakes so some swap smaller brakes from the GS or earlier UCF10's to fit larger lips in the front. I don't know if any other brakes fit the UCF30 though. And I don't know if you're willing to give up your big brakes, or pay more for custom small brakes.[/quote]

Who has done it? I havent seen it done on a UCF20 yet. 

Anyway, youll need high disk. Im gonna try antbo's vienna dish sometime, looks like his mid disk might clear my calipers.

Depending on the wheel but you can fit a mid,standard,and A disk.  Just figure out what wheel company your going to go with.   If you check out their sites they tell you what fits what.  It isnt that hard to figure it out without going with a smaller caliper and that would be the wrong thing to do with a LS430 because its a heavy car and depending on the size of the wheels i think you would want the stopping power.  If you go with a BBK then it gets thinner but you still have to check the specs.

[QUOTE=AFLS430;140008] If you go with a BBK then it gets thinner but you still have to check the specs.[/QUOTE]

Actually, my 355mm StopTechs are bigger than the OE LS and Supra calipers 
(bigger X-factor and radius) and the Brembos have even more X-factor than 
the StopTechs. The Rotoras are pretty wicked, too, and their brake drawings/
templates are always wrong (amateurs!).

But I agree, a downgrade on the brakes would be a shame and I would not 
recommend it. 

The flip side to the coin is if you have too much lip on the front you won't 
have any front/rear lip contrast. I have 2.5" front and 4" rear, which makes
for a pretty nice contrast.

[quote=SoCalSC4;140020]
The flip side to the coin is if you have too much lip on the front you won't 
have any front/rear lip contrast. I have 2.5" front and 4" rear, which makes
for a pretty nice contrast.[/quote]
 
 
i just feel there is a considerable diffrence in a 2.5 lip front a 3 inch.
 
I like contrast alot.......But I love Big lip on front a whole lot more....
 
 
kinda like this!
 
[IMG]http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data//500/medium/CL_13.jpg[/IMG]

PM SiphanRacing.

I forgot the specs of the wheels i sold him, something like 20x9 +24? and it still needed like a 5mm spacer to clear the front brakes. Decent amount of lip though. Let me see if i can find you a picture for reference.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/Baoser/Events/03-02-08/DSC_2403.jpg[/img]

[quote=SoCalSC4;140020]Actually, my 355mm StopTechs are bigger than the OE LS and Supra calipers 
 
The flip side to the coin is if you have too much lip on the front you won't 
have any front/rear lip contrast. I have 2.5" front and 4" rear, which makes
for a pretty nice contrast.[/quote]
 
[quote=gato;140186]i just feel there is a considerable diffrence in a 2.5 lip front a 3 inch.
 
I like contrast alot.......But I love Big lip on front a whole lot more....
 
 
kinda like this!
 
[/quote]
 
 
WOW! Good examples/points! I'll have to remember this when I order my rims! Thanks! :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=gato;140186]i just feel there is a considerable diffrence in a 2.5 lip front a 3 inch.
 
I like contrast alot.......But I love Big lip on front a whole lot more....
 
[/QUOTE]

Look at those cute little brakes! :p

[quote=SoCalSC4;140372]Look at those cute little brakes! :p[/quote]
 
 
your absolutley right....i hated having puny brakes...
 
 
alot of people suggested downgrading in brakes......I'm out on that!
 
The Brakes on this LS is Awesome......just gonna have to find the right wheel....heck, I'll run spacers up front to clear and mod my fenders!