K-Sport Coilver and spring rate?

Ok guys, I know alot of you think KSport sucks balls but I have them already but I need to know what would be a good spring for a softer ride.  Its for a 2000 LS on 19's and Ksport gave me these rates -

7kg
9kg
10kg
12kg
13kg

They also told me if I need softer they can custom it.  Im really lost when it comes to spring rates so any advice is greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

the lower the spring rate the more the spring will compress under load. that means with lower spring rates youll have possibly a more bouncy ride.

The lower the spring rate, the more compliant and supple the ride. as you increase spring rate you increase harshness and "bounciness"

take 7kg/mm for example. Run it through the math of 2.2keys to a pound, and 25.4 millimeters to an inch, and it's approximately 390lbs/in in standard measurement. That is to say for every inch of compression it takes 390lbs. Most Luxury car suspensions are in the range of 120-190lbs/in.

Shocks are where bounce comes into play. If you want to keep your ride supple make sure you have good shocks. bad shocks=bounce because they can not absorb the violent actions of a powerful spring:thumbsup:.

Bound and Rebound damping are very important. a quasi low bound (compression) damping and a quasi high rebound damping are what's really wanted in a street setup. I wish Ground Control still sold their Advance Design shocks.

So 7kg would still be too harsh for the setup?  Sorry for being a noob but im totally lost when it comes to these things.  The shocks dont seem to bad, I had it on the softest settinf before but it gave more of the load on the spring so I gave it about 10 clicks torward the stiffer setting and now it rides a little better.  SSofter springs will definitely make the ride better I think.

only problem with Ksport is they wont allow you to go much more than 1kg down and 2kg up without voiding your warranty on the system. The shocks tend to dislike huge strokes and if you get the spring rate too low with the damping too low it tends to blow the shocks...mostly from bottoming out, but over heating the shocks is another problem with K-Sport.

The adjustment you made kept the spring from bouncing you everywhere. using more of the shock's damping power.

Considering the car you have is a a UCF21, I'd say the standard front spring rate is either 16 or 14kg/mm. and the rear is 8kg. Ksport tends to have a higher rate for most cars because the travel is shorter and they claim "more adjustability." Those rates they're quoting, i'm almost positive, are for both front and rear and there's a definitive line between them. 

So, i'd venture to guess the [SIZE="3"][B][I]7, 9 and 10kg are for the rear*[/I][/B][/SIZE] within warranty. As for the front, they may be willing to allow you 12kg. which is kinda weird, because they'd be allowing some bad to happen, but they do allow customized setups at with no warranty.


Addendum:


OKAY, i just went a looked up the specs on the KSport, they're [B][COLOR="Yellow"]18kg [/COLOR][/B]front:eekwiggle:  [IMG]http://forum.mtm2.com/images/smiles/smilie_ouch.gif[/IMG]. I'd assume that's why you had better results with cranking the damping up a bit. that's more than 1000lbs per inch-traveled forcing the each corner of the front end back up into the air after a sharp compression. Not very Compliant.

Most coilover systems for the LS400/Celsior are 14kg/8kg or in that general ballpark (approx. F: 780lbs/in | R: 450lbs/in). Back when they were developing Ksports for KA7/KA9 Legends, talk of reducing the spring from 14kg standard to 12 were met with opposition from Ksport. the 13kg was the compromise. Insurance, Algernon, K-Office, Aimgain, etc. are all 12kg for the front so it seems K-sport springs you tighter than everyone else.

If you're ok with voiding warranty then you should get some 10kg springs for the front and 5 for the rear. That'd be only me, for an LS400. Remember, on these types of coilovers, the softer you go the more likely you are to damage the shock. The systems they offer through these aero manufacturers are decent, but you can't abuse them too much. They're short stroke high impact designs based on Racing Technology.

I tried to include you in my thought process, and give you some information while telling you what was happening with your suspension. If i've done nothing but confuse you more, i apologize, and suggest reading up on what springs do:dance: 

*=made it big incase you didn't feel like reading all that LOL!

All that said, the lower you go, the stiffer you ride....That's just a fact of life.

Hey Avantgarde, youre a real life saver!  I think I can understand the base of everything and Im probably gonna go with the softer springs and void the warranty.  I'll eventually get air within the next year so it shouldnt be a biggie.   Thanks again buddy!

KG

i can solve your whole problem
 
 
dont buy ksport
worst dampers ever

yeah i found out the hard way.  i already have them.  i shouldve done my homework before buying but oh well.  live and learn.
[QUOTE=Yokotas13;137288]i can solve your whole problem
 
 
dont buy ksport
worst dampers ever[/QUOTE]

even if you get different spring rates, it will NOT make the ride better
its the mismatched dampers, and unregulated settings
 
there was a shock dyno done on a set of 4 ksports
every single damper was different fromt eh corresponding side. nothing matched

So am I SOL? Damn this sucks, I thought softer springs might get me a little bit better ride.

[QUOTE=Yokotas13;137296]even if you get different spring rates, it will NOT make the ride better
its the mismatched dampers, and unregulated settings
 
there was a shock dyno done on a set of 4 ksports
every single damper was different fromt eh corresponding side. nothing matched[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Yokotas13;137296]even if you get different spring rates, it will NOT make the ride better
its the mismatched dampers, and unregulated settings
 
there was a shock dyno done on a set of 4 ksports
every single damper was different fromt eh corresponding side. nothing matched[/QUOTE]

do you have the information from that dyno? I'd love to see the performance of the K-Sports...

What were the "settings" they had each shock set at? at what velocity did they start becoming inconsistent. Were heatsoak, and cavitation mentioned as the presumed culprit for inconsistent testing? I'm seriously interested in seeing the performance characteristics. Ksport doesn't really put that kind of information out there (for obvious reasons)

I'd like to see the test, to see if the difference in damping was severe enough to say it wouldn't matter if someone changed springs.

Also, Ksport doesn't have a "click and set" type of adjustment. it's kind of a vague "slide" type of adjuster and with that you can assume some inconsistencies there, and especially bench testing a set right out of the box. I don't K-Sport's Quality control is to the point they set each shock at a specific damping level. Especially not with a purported [I]32 Levels of Adjustment[/I]:smiley-rofl:

lol
 
the test was done on a honda forum, against a Ground control.koni setup
I cant rememebr which one, but the results stuck nto my ghead so much that iw as amazed.
 
it was somewhere on honda-tech, they did it last year. and it was linked to Zivlia somewhere.

[quote=Yokotas13;137296]even if you get different spring rates, it will NOT make the ride better
its the mismatched dampers, and unregulated settings
 
there was a shock dyno done on a set of 4 ksports
every single damper was different fromt eh corresponding side. nothing matched[/quote]

I think I remember that. Anyway, from what I remember Ksport doesnt revalve shocks for different spring rates, which most companies do. The dampers are not matched to the spring rates which makes it ride like crap. If you stick to what they list on their site as far as spring rates its more bearable. With Ksport you get what you pay for. I wouldnt get them unless I didnt have a choice which is the deal with most unpopular chassis' as ksports makes coilovers for all kinds of cars.

nope, not at all
 
but its far from bearable

so do i have no choice but to stick with the hard springs that I already have or should i get softer ones?

going on basic knowledge of what you've had to do, i would say that going to a softer spring and adjusting damping to those springs.

With a softer spring the Ksport would be able to control that spring a little easier. That said you'll ride nicer but be more liable to drop beam (scrape your chassis) on a large hump at highway speeds.

Once you get the lighter springs, just play with the settings until you like the ride.

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate getting expert advice!

[QUOTE=Avantgarde;137707]going on basic knowledge of what you've had to do, i would say that going to a softer spring and adjusting damping to those springs.

With a softer spring the Ksport would be able to control that spring a little easier. That said you'll ride nicer but be more liable to drop beam (scrape your chassis) on a large hump at highway speeds.

Once you get the lighter springs, just play with the settings until you like the ride.[/QUOTE]

I had to replace 7 dampers in 2.5 years...They suck!

I always thought the lower spring rates have a better ride, as far as not having back problems after driving. The lower spring rates will be bouncier, and the higher ones will be stiffer.

[QUOTE=Yokotas13;137296]even if you get different spring rates, it will NOT make the ride better
its the mismatched dampers, and unregulated settings
 
there was a shock dyno done on a set of 4 ksports
every single damper was different fromt eh corresponding side. nothing matched[/QUOTE]

That matters on a track, not for cruising.

I'm more worried about the dampers shitting themselves, which seems to be a major issue.

actually it's THE LOWER YOU GO, THE STIFFER YOU [B]NEED[/B] TO BE.

it's all give and take, you cannot get something out of nothing. 

[quote=Avantgarde;137255]All that said, the lower you go, the stiffer you ride....That's just a fact of life.[/quote]

why not just go with what ksport recommends ?

why do some people try to go with a softer custom spring rate ? you don't want to go softer, softer means less resiliency, less strength, and more chance to blow out your struts coilovers. This is why ksport won't warranty it below a certain rate.

when riding low, your main focus should be on strength and resiliency. You cannot expect to have "a stock ride" when riding super low and very short strut rod movement.

again, the lower u go and the shorter the stroke, the STRONGER AND STRONGER your spring rate needs to be. It needs to hold it up wth strength, strength equals higher spring rate. get it ?

and besides, Who the F knows if Ksports spring rate's are even accurate ? they could send u the same spring rate as before and u probably wouldn't know.






[quote=hazian;136980]Ok guys, I know alot of you think KSport sucks balls but I have them already but I need to know what would be a good spring for a softer ride.  Its for a 2000 LS on 19's and Ksport gave me these rates -

7kg
9kg
10kg
12kg
13kg

They also told me if I need softer they can custom it.  Im really lost when it comes to spring rates so any advice is greatly appreciated.  Thanks![/quote]

[quote=Qclass;138437]why not just go with what ksport recommends ?

why do some people try to go with a softer custom spring rate ? you don't want to go softer, softer means less resiliency, less strength, and more chance to blow out your struts coilovers. This is why ksport won't warranty it below a certain rate.

when riding low, your main focus should be on strength and resiliency. You cannot expect to have "a stock ride" when riding super low and very short strut rod movement.

again, the lower u go and the shorter the stroke, the STRONGER AND STRONGER your spring rate needs to be. It needs to hold it up wth strength, strength equals higher spring rate. get it ?

and besides, Who the F knows if Ksports spring rate's are even accurate ? they could send u the same spring rate as before and u probably wouldn't know.[/quote]

your a bit off

your theory works on single tap coils, but not dual adjustable /double tap/height adjustbale whatever you want ot call them coils

Ksport is a dual adjustable, where preload is separate from height. 

it doesnt matter how low you make the car with the bottom bracket, the shock still has its full travel. Your car might bottom out and prevent it, but being low on coilovers will in no way damage them, unless you start drooping springs.

so again, in another post from you, if you dont know what your talking about, dont post

haha your funny yokota, 

your  saying with two way full taps, you get the same strut travel regardless of where u set the spring perch. You want to put some money on it ? I'm sure the guys at JIC, Ksport would love to put some money on this to. 

get the FACTS straight fool, the preload also affects the strut travel.  set the spring perch low and you get less travel, set it high and you get more travel. Set it too high and u top out, set it too low and u bottom out. This goes for BOTH one way and two way full tap coilovers.  

it's quite evident who knows what they are talking about and who is absolutely CLUELESS. I do no need to prove this.






[quote=Yokotas13;138515]your a bit off

your theory works on single tap coils, but not dual adjustable /double tap/height adjustbale whatever you want ot call them coils

Ksport is a dual adjustable, where preload is separate from height. 

it doesnt matter how low you make the car with the bottom bracket, the shock still has its full travel. Your car might bottom out and prevent it, but being low on coilovers will in no way damage them, unless you start drooping springs.

so again, in another post from you, if you dont know what your talking about, dont post[/quote]

[QUOTE=Qclass;138834]haha your funny yokota, 

your saying saying with two way full taps, you get the same strut travel regardless of where u set the spring perch. You want to put some money on it ? I'm sure the guys at JIC, Ksport would love to put some money on this to. 

get the FACTS straight fool, the preload also affects the strut travel.  set the spring perch low and you get less travel, set it high and you get more travel. Set it too high and u top out, set it too low and u bottom out. This goes for BOTH one way and two way full tap coilovers.  

it's quite evident who knows what they are talking about and who is absolutely CLUELESS. I do no need to prove this.[/QUOTE]

Um......Just an FYI Jimmy, with double height adjustable coilovers it is HIGHLY ill-advised to adjust the spring perch for ride height.

This is why Yokota said that you're wrong. You're still wrong trying to equate ride height with shock/spring travel if they're adjustable in more than the shock travel. you can lower the car without adjusting the spring perch...infact with most coilover systems that have another height adjustment, it's suggested you only touch the spring perch for spring preload.

please call me by Qclass, especially when I have no idea who u are. 

do a search for "preload" and "jic" to expand your knowledge. I really don't feel like getting into this.


 



[quote=Avantgarde;138836]Um......Just an FYI Jimmy, with double height adjustable coilovers it is HIGHLY ill-advised to adjust the spring perch for ride height.

This is why Yokota said that you're wrong. You're still wrong trying to equate ride height with shock/spring travel if they're adjustable in more than the shock travel. you can lower the car without adjusting the spring perch...infact with most coilover systems that have another height adjustment, it's suggested you only touch the spring perch for spring preload.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Qclass;138854]please call me by Qclass, especially when I have no idea who u are. 

do a search for "preload" and "jic" to expand your knowledge. I really don't feel like getting into this.[/QUOTE]

LOL you don't remember me...ok

I bought your DHs off the RL...=)

As for JIC, i've never been a fan of JIC. I know how suspension systems work, I know that the old technology for the street is to thread down the spring...like on Koni Adjustable sets, as well as Ennepetal's old setup for most cars (before the introduced MMAS and MTAS). Ennepetal's MTAS system added the second adustable collar to allow or full shock/spring travel while lowering the car...

Luck's elSport still does the same thing with threading down the shock and spring. but that's not the optimal way. Especially when TEIN, Algernon, Insurance, Admiration, Aistar, BuddyClub, etc. all drop the shock body instead of the suspension travel.


EDIT:

I should mention that JIC's VIP system also includes a second adjustable collar to allow for suspension corner-weighting and lowering without touching spring preload. Again, not touching the spring perch allows the user  full travel of the shock and the adjustability to lower it.

[quote=Qclass;138834]haha your funny yokota, 
 
your saying with two way full taps, you get the same strut travel regardless of where u set the spring perch. You want to put some money on it ? I'm sure the guys at JIC, Ksport would love to put some money on this to. 
 
get the FACTS straight fool, the preload also affects the strut travel. set the spring perch low and you get less travel, set it high and you get more travel. Set it too high and u top out, set it too low and u bottom out. This goes for BOTH one way and two way full tap coilovers. 
 
it's quite evident who knows what they are talking about and who is absolutely CLUELESS. I do no need to prove this.[/quote]
if you read
i said bottom bracket
not spring perch
idiot
 
your trying to make ME look dumb, a guy that has set up countless suspensions for both actual grip racing, actual drifting, and vip stances, VS you......:crickets:

[quote=Qclass;138834]You want to put some money on it ?[/quote]
 
i'll take that bet. on a double tap coilover the lower spring perch is supposed to be snug on the coil the lower bracket is used for height adjustment. fine tuning can be made from the lower spring perch once the car is under full load, but even then the shock travel doesn't change much.
 
the whole purpose of double tap is to have the coilover total length adjustable rather than shortening the stroke.

I could really care less what you've done yokota's. Your still, and will alway be CLUELESS in my book.

and no I never tried to make u look dumb, u did it to yourself. 

[quote=Yokotas13;138961]if you read
i said bottom bracket
not spring perch
idiot
 
your trying to make ME look dumb, a guy that has set up countless suspensions for both actual grip racing, actual drifting, and vip stances, VS you......:crickets:[/quote]

Do a search of my multiple postings on double tap coilovers. Here's one:

think a little and learn something.

[URL]http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4337&highlight=preload[/URL]

you do not get the same strut travel regardless of where u set the spring perch. There is actually a HUGE difference in strut travel depending on where u  set your spring perch, both double tap and single tap.

















[quote=BLACKonBLACK98;139007]i'll take that bet. on a double tap coilover the lower spring perch is supposed to be snug on the coil the lower bracket is used for height adjustment. fine tuning can be made from the lower spring perch once the car is under full load, but even then the shock travel doesn't change much.
 
the whole purpose of double tap is to have the coilover total length adjustable rather than shortening the stroke.[/quote]

I'll make a motion GIF for you to show you the difference in adjusting ride height on "double adjustable" coilovers versus single adjustable.

You aren't advised, and really should not adjust spring perch for hieght control if your coilovers have a secondary adjustment. If you adjust the spring perch your ARE going to mess with shock stroke. The entire reason the aftermarket started doing the adjustments on another part of the suspension was because the problem with the shocks lowered stroke.

Real Racing systems don't really use the second part of adjustment like most aftermarket systems. They're custom made with custom springs for optimum ride height so there's no need for double adjustments. but on street cars, the dual adjustment is key for differing regions of the world requiring different ride hieghts and to appease a broader customer base.

It's all pretty academic. I could go for days about suspension as I've worked in professional settings with race teams on suspension systems and chassis construction. My real passion was suspension tuning, you can change the entire characteristic of a car based solely on how you control the wheels.

[U] [/U]


so what are we disagreeing about  ?

I'm just going to leave this link so it can benefit other's in the future:

[URL]http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4337&highlight=preload[/URL]

[quote=Avantgarde;139025]I'll make a motion GIF for you to show you the difference in adjusting ride height on "double adjustable" coilovers versus single adjustable.

You aren't advised, and really should not adjust spring perch for hieght control if your coilovers have a secondary adjustment. If you adjust the spring perch your ARE going to mess with shock stroke. The entire reason the aftermarket started doing the adjustments on another part of the suspension was because the problem with the shocks lowered stroke.

Real Racing systems don't really use the second part of adjustment like most aftermarket systems. They're custom made with custom springs for optimum ride height so there's no need for double adjustments. but on street cars, the dual adjustment is key for differing regions of the world requiring different ride hieghts and to appease a broader customer base.

It's all pretty academic. I could go for days about suspension as I've worked in professional settings with race teams on suspension systems and chassis construction. My real passion was suspension tuning, you can change the entire characteristic of a car based solely on how you control the wheels.[/quote]

what you are arguing is: if you do it the wrong way the stroke will be shortened. thats true, but if you do it the right way it will not be.
 
moving the lower spring perch up beyond the snug point will preload your spring, moving it below will cause shorter suspension travel.
 
snugging the lower perch to the spring and raising the bottom bracket is the correct way to do it, however it would be a ton of work to get every corner equal this way so fine tuning can be done using the lower spring perch under load (which will have a minimal effect on preload/travel).
 
you really shouldn't be so condescending until you know what you are talking about.

what is your point ? what are u disagreeing about ? 

[quote=BLACKonBLACK98;139074]what you are arguing is: if you do it the wrong way the stroke will be shortened. thats true, but if you do it the right way it will not be.
 
moving the lower spring perch up beyond the snug point will preload your spring, moving it below will cause shorter suspension travel.
 
snugging the lower perch to the spring and raising the bottom bracket is the correct way to do it, however it would be a ton of work to get every corner equal this way so fine tuning can be done using the lower spring perch under load (which will have a minimal effect on preload/travel).
 
you really shouldn't be so condescending until you know what you are talking about.[/quote]

is this sh*t for real ? that's what I've been saying all this time! 

so what is your point ? do u realize the more u disagree, the more u sound like u are agreeing with me. what a waste of time this has been.

re-read this and hopefully u can also help and contribute, otherwise you have provided absolutely nothing to the table.

please enlighten me with something new. 

[URL="http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4337&highlight=preload"]http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/s...hlight=preload[/URL]

[quote=BLACKonBLACK98;139074]what you are arguing is: if you do it the wrong way the stroke will be shortened. thats true, but if you do it the right way it will not be.
 
moving the lower spring perch up beyond the snug point will preload your spring, moving it below will cause shorter suspension travel.
 
snugging the lower perch to the spring and raising the bottom bracket is the correct way to do it, however it would be a ton of work to get every corner equal this way so fine tuning can be done using the lower spring perch under load (which will have a minimal effect on preload/travel).
 
you really shouldn't be so condescending until you know what you are talking about.[/quote]

do you realize the more you post the more you sound like an a**?
 
i'm not really into explaining s**t to somebody who acts like they know everything. 4 different people have explained how it works in THIS thread. its not that nobody brought it to the table, you just didn't feel like eating.
 
[B][SIZE=5]my advice is to anybody reading this thread:[/SIZE][/B]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE] 
[SIZE=2]listen to the 4 people saying the same thing, not the one guy who is trying to talk down to everybody else but obviously doesn't understand.[/SIZE]

basically
 
Qclass, your officialy stupid in my book for ANYTHING suspension related.

It's already been said before. read it.

[url]http://vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9740&highlight=perch[/url]

[quote=BLACKonBLACK98;139202]do you realize the more you post the more you sound like an a**?
 
i'm not really into explaining s**t to somebody who acts like they know everything. 4 different people have explained how it works in THIS thread. its not that nobody brought it to the table, you just didn't feel like eating.
 
[B][SIZE=5]my advice is to anybody reading this thread:[/SIZE][/B]
 
[SIZE=2]listen to the 4 people saying the same thing, not the one guy who is trying to talk down to everybody else but obviously doesn't understand.[/SIZE][/quote]

[quote=Yokotas13;139203]basically
 
Qclass, your officialy stupid in my book for ANYTHING suspension related.[/quote]

first off, what are u disagreeing about ?

please, bring something new to the table.

Here's another link u should read, all of your stuff you've stated are "been there done that" stuff.



[URL]http://vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9740&highlight=perch[/URL]



[quote=BLACKonBLACK98;139202]do you realize the more you post the more you sound like an a**?
 
i'm not really into explaining s**t to somebody who acts like they know everything. 4 different people have explained how it works in THIS thread. its not that nobody brought it to the table, you just didn't feel like eating.
 
[B][SIZE=5]my advice is to anybody reading this thread:[/SIZE][/B]
 
[SIZE=2]listen to the 4 people saying the same thing, not the one guy who is trying to talk down to everybody else but obviously doesn't understand.[/SIZE][/quote]

haha ya ok=)

[quote=Yokotas13;139203]basically
 
Qclass, your officialy stupid in my book for ANYTHING suspension related.[/quote]

qclass: i think i know why you are not getting what we are sayng. i'm geussing that you are trying to adjust the coilovers bolted in. to do it the right way you need to put the body on jackstands, unbolt the coilover from the spindle and drop the axle. you can not raise the lower bracket with it bolted to the spindle.

whatever you say Pyle

haha and you say I don't understand ? whatever man. what a COMPLETE waste of time and an embarrassment to get into this with u and yokotas. I'm done.



[quote=BLACKonBLACK98;139211]qclass: i think i know why you are not getting what we are sayng. i'm geussing that you are trying to adjust the coilovers bolted in. to do it the right way you need to put the body on jackstands, unbolt the coilover from the spindle and drop the axle. you can not raise the lower bracket with it bolted to the spindle.[/quote]

[QUOTE=BLACKonBLACK98;139211]qclass: i think i know why you are not getting what we are sayng. i'm geussing that you are trying to adjust the coilovers bolted in. to do it the right way you need to put the body on jackstands, unbolt the coilover from the spindle and drop the axle. you can not raise the lower bracket with it bolted to the spindle.[/QUOTE]

you can adjust the case length(at the lower bracket thus adjusting the ride height) while it is bolted into the car by rotating the ENTIRE coilover

lol... thanks for proving to be a d**k when i was just trying to help you understand against my better judgment. i don't know what you think you know but believe me, you are not fully comprehending.

fully?
 
im going with remotely comprehending
 
im done in this thread, qclass is a prime example of nuthugging someone that told him wrong info, and refusing to say he is wrong.

[quote=volkgt7;139221]you can adjust the case length(at the lower bracket thus adjusting the ride height) while it is bolted into the car by rotating the ENTIRE coilover[/quote]
 
hmmm... i see what you are saying... turning the lower spring perch with the locking nut in place correct?
 
a couple things i keep forgetting is my rear suspension is fairly different than everyone else's on here, and my locking nuts are gone.

There's a lot of bad/misinformed info swirling around in this thread.  For that I will lock it.  Seriously...play nice or don't play at all.  All of you.  Not all suspensions or coilovers for that matter are created the same way.  So there can be many differences.  So please..in the future please be very precise in your questions, answers, and findings.

Capiche??