WOOT OBAMA FTW!!!

After watching even just part of the debates and of course all the reading I've done considering issues of various types...McCain is just not all there?  He seems to just want to try to punch Obama rather than face the issues and questions being asked/raised?  McCain is an OLD dude...not that it would matter is some cases...but in others he doesn't seem to be shooting with all 8 cylinders.  That really worries me..I'm won't even get into the Palin factor..god.  I've never been into politics...and still I'm not, but my choice this election seems so much more critical than ever before.

I'm a vet, served in Desert Storm and Desert Shield (Navy C-SAR) and my wife is currently in the Army.  McCain's service doesn't waver my vote or my decision.  What's right and what's wrong is what bothers me here..I see Bush to the 3rd power all over again with McCain, and I [I]hate[/I] to say that.

Sorry..just ranting..haha.  But yah...Obama it is for me..no doubt.  We need a Republican President now more than ever.

Oh i think we assed out either way.  but yah OBAMA got my vote!

notme

Vote for Bill Cosby.

Bob Barr for pres!

I am voting for Ralph nader, All who have a problem can go snort a line of sea salt.:innoutrofl2:

ralph nader is definitely a better option than mccain or obama, but sadly he wont win.

neither mccain or obama are 'great' so-to-speak, but obama, though somewhat socialist, is still the better candidate at this point. he killed mccain in the debate last night.

[quote=eyedea;191348]I am voting for Ralph nader, All who have a problem can go snort a line of sea salt.:innoutrofl2:[/quote]
same here :pat:

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I was an avid bob barr supporter until I started reading his REAL stances.  He is in fact a neocon and is just as bad as mccain and obama.  

The man that could really change things is Ron Paul, just look how he was right about every thing wrong with our economy.  Ron Paul endorsed Chuck Baldwin who is under the constitution party.  Ron Paul is a libertarian but he rejects Bob Barr as the libertarian nominee.  So the only way I see to get Ron Pauls' fixes is to vote for Chuck Baldwin though he may be an old school baptist minister, he is the only one that can bring america back to its former glory.

[img]http://dubyad40.com/images/blogimages/brewster.jpg[/img]

^^^Hahahaha, I remember that^^^

The problem with voting for those other guys that clearly won't win is that votes that could go to the lesser of two evils but won't.  Ralph Nader..he said my first car wasn't safe.  I proved him dreadfully wrong...haha.

I wouldve voted for Colin Powell in a heartbeat

The Main Reason I Support Obama is that He has a Set Plan to Bring Our Friends and Family Home From the War. Im a Military Brat Myself and I was Born at Camp Lejeune NC. I have a lot of Family and Friends Enlisted. I have Attended 4 Funerals So Far. I'm Tired of Seeing the Devastation Brought On By the War and our Nations Economy. My Vote of Course Goes to Obama I could not Imagine America Going 100 More Years in Mc Cains Plan.

I'm not even in the US and I watched.  The actions of the US always have a direct effect on Canada.

I think Obama easily won the debate.  I was suprsied to see a few interviews of people on the streets who thought McCain did a great job.  

It was good to hear Obama talk about medical care for all.  Our federal goverment runs our medical care and it works fine.  Sure it has it's hiccups but I don't have to worry about what surgery will cost me because its free.  Michael Moore's Sicko is a good movie to watch on health care.

Also I don't know if it suprised you guys but it sure suprised me that the war in Iraq is costing the US 10 BILLION per month.

From the debate it seemed like McCain wants to stay in Iraq as long as it takes and Obama wants to bring back the US troops asap.

[IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/implicitautosports/trever.gif[/IMG]
 
 
I for one consider myself a Neo-Liberal Conservative Republican hahahahaha long name but it really describes my beliefs politically. In this time of turmoil where we have various countries that are forcefully trying to become super powers by attaining nuclear arms, while Russia is leaning towards it's Imperialistic ways of the 90's, and with rogue nations trying to undermine our free ways of living.... I will not put my trust or vote on someone who has no ability to make the hard decisions that need to be made. If we need to go to war, I know Obama will not do it, if we need to enforce stronger sanctions on countries that are funding or harboring terrorists I know Obama won't do it. He seemed like he could have made a great president at first, but after researching a bit on him and his policies I can't vote for him and know I could have voted for someone that would have made sure we were represented in the world as the strong nation that we are. I know McCain may not be all he's cracked up to be, but at least he's willing to do what's needed in a time of emergency, and not just "talk". 
 
In regards to last night's debate I believe perception is key, since all I really saw was someone being given the respect to be allowed to talk, while the other acted so immature and kept talking out of turn and interrupting the other candidate.... manners is a virtue and in my day growing up if you interrupted someone when they were talking... you'd get slapped or hit. :slap:

But at the same time..how often did you see Obama attacking McCain rather than answering the original question?  That's where McCain blew it imho.  We as America need to be strong for us...not strong for every other country.  We have enough problems of our own right here at home.  That's where our money needs to be...taking care of issues for our people..not another countries people.  If you have a big problem at home do you go over to your neighbors house because he wants you to walk his dog?   The analogy may seem off, but actually it's not.  The biggest problem we have as a country, is sticking our nose in everyone else's business and not not handling our own personal problems first.  When I talk to all my friends who are from other countries, they say our government is pompous and and takes agendas too far that shouldn't even be our agendas.  I totally agree with them.  I haven't been too proud to call myself an American for a while now..and as a war vet, that's really sad...

obamas got my vote! 
 
Being  a Union Rep.. we always vote Democrat.. repulicans just keep letting US job go to thrid world countries. we lossing the middle class people! 
 
About this bailout issue.. i like how obama also wanted to include the auto workers!! 
 
and he weres slippa and shorts! LOL

I see and hear the issues and talk, and I thoroughly believe that no one should vote strictly as a representative of a particular party... I've said it before, and I'll say it again.... "you're (people in general) a Damn fool if you do".... learn the facts, see how they apply to your beliefs, then vote accordingly.... blah blah blah nag nag bitch moan....

Obama baby!!!

[quote=elpresidente;191513]But at the same time..how often did you see Obama attacking McCain rather than answering the original question? That's where McCain blew it imho. We as America need to be strong for us...not strong for every other country. We have enough problems of our own right here at home. That's where our money needs to be...taking care of issues for our people..not another countries people. If you have a big problem at home do you go over to your neighbors house because he wants you to walk his dog? The analogy may seem off, but actually it's not. The biggest problem we have as a country, is sticking our nose in everyone else's business and not not handling our own personal problems first. When I talk to all my friends who are from other countries, they say our government is pompous and and takes agendas too far that shouldn't even be our agendas. I totally agree with them. I haven't been too proud to call myself an American for a while now..and as a war vet, that's really sad...[/quote]
 
 
That's just it though, the majority of the time if the American government didn't "police" (literally this is what it is) the world's conflicts all t he other countries would be all up in arms about how we just stood back and did nothing, how we could be so pompous as to not want to help those in need, or how we could let our allies down. It's a literal case of your damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. Yes our involvement is unnecessary or sometimes even unrequired, but if it happens I blame not the puppet on the strings... I blame the puppeteer pulling the strings. My major beef these last eight years has not been with Bush, but with Congress. THEY make the Legislature that affects us, not the president who is a part of the Executive Branch, unlike Congress who is a part of the Legislative Branch. It's these people that are doing what they want, taking us to war, spending our money, bailing out companies they all took large sums in campaign funding from, who decide what our taxes will be, who decide when our troops will come back, who decide when we will cut welfare off and stop allowing people to be burdens on society. Sadly both candidates are congressmen so they are both coming out of having screwed us over for the last eight years hahahahaha.
 
If you noticed my first post I stated what I considered myself to be and then went ahead and stated that I was going to vote for Obama at first... that alone says I'm not a mindless voter, I saw a possibility in Obama, yet as the time progressed and I started noticing key points in his policy that didn't make sense, and how leaned on certain topics I began to ask myself what did the other candidate have to offer? So I researched and found I was able to be more compelled by McCain's stance on the world at hand and how we as a nation will move forward towards making sure we are not overrun by threats and attempted attacks.
 
P.S. I'm glad the atmosphere here on the site has become such where we can discuss something like this without the childish banter like it is the norm on other sites. Peace and McCain to end the Pain Baby!!!!!!! :dance::runcoold:

Really surprised that business owners are even considering obama since he is going to raise your tax rate significantly as well as increase gvt spending and your taxes on any capital gains you may make??  I'm still amazed that people see someone "different" and someone that will "change" things when all he is is another polotician with a great tan???

The O!

[quote=burgy;191546]Really surprised that business owners are even considering obama since he is going to raise your tax rate significantly as well as increase govt spending and your taxes on any capital gains you may make?? I'm still amazed that people see someone "different" and someone that will "change" things when all he is is another politician with a great tan???[/quote]
 
You have to Understand that with the Situation the Economy is in Now, there Will Be Big Taxes for Americans. For a Candidate to Say there will be "No New Taxes" That would be of Course a Lie. Obama has Stated that there will be "NO Tax for Lower and Middle Class Americans." The Only Tax will be Issued to Americans the Upper Class Americans that make Over $250 Thousand (Quarter Million) a Year. Imagine Your Check Every Week with No Government Taxes Taken Out. I Know your Going to Notice it, If your Under $250 Thousand a Year. That Extra Money Could Really Help You Survive, Pay Bill and Gas For Your Car. Now Think If You Make Over $250 Thousand a Year. That's a Million Every 4 Years, Your Not really worried about any Taxes or Gas Prices so Its Not Going to Affect You. 
 
I LOL'ed Hard when Donald Trump was on CNN and Complained how OBAMA was Gonna Raise His Taxes and How He was Gonna Vote for McCain. :innoutrofl2:
 
Now that's the CHANGE you can Believe In ... :smiley-rofl:

That's my point....fix the issues we have now in a way that won't kill those who really need it.  I don't see how that's a bad idea.  It's not going to effect many business owners...most small business owners don't have over $250,000 of income.

[QUOTE=SikNLow;191506]
I for one consider myself a Neo-Liberal Conservative Republican hahahahaha long name but it really describes my beliefs politically. In this time of turmoil where we have various countries that are forcefully trying to become super powers by attaining nuclear arms, while Russia is leaning towards it's Imperialistic ways of the 90's, and with rogue nations trying to undermine our free ways of living.... I will not put my trust or vote on someone who has no ability to make the hard decisions that need to be made. If we need to go to war, I know Obama will not do it, if we need to enforce stronger sanctions on countries that are funding or harboring terrorists I know Obama won't do it. He seemed like he could have made a great president at first, but after researching a bit on him and his policies I can't vote for him and know I could have voted for someone that would have made sure we were represented in the world as the strong nation that we are. I know McCain may not be all he's cracked up to be, but at least he's willing to do what's needed in a time of emergency, and not just "talk". 
 
In regards to last night's debate I believe perception is key, since all I really saw was someone being given the respect to be allowed to talk, while the other acted so immature and kept talking out of turn and interrupting the other candidate.... manners is a virtue and in my day growing up if you interrupted someone when they were talking... you'd get slapped or hit. :slap:[/QUOTE]



agree... i really dont trust obama, he doesnt have the experience to be dealing with the turmoil going on in the world, and it only seems like its going to get worse! and Why should people that make more money get taxed more? just cuz?

[QUOTE=phrosttz0;191578]agree... i really dont trust obama, he doesnt have the experience to be dealing with the turmoil going on in the world, and it only seems like its going to get worse![/QUOTE]
So you want to put a guy in there who's buddies were responsible for it?  I agree that he doesn't have "as much" experience as McCain per say...but that doesn't make him wrong for the job.  Do you know how much the rest of the government comes into play when it comes to the decisions made?  The President doesn't have some "supreme say" in what happens, he merely influences it.  Who is more influential to you?  McCain seems too old for the job if you ask me.  He also appears way too self-righteous.

I agree i dont like his age... but I really dont like Obama. His tax and healthcare proposals. I really dont feel Obama has any experience, hes been in the senate what 3yrs? He really hasnt done anything spectacular there either. The republican party has the most experience, Palin in my mind has more experience then Obama, atleast she has been running a state. Sorry but being in Senate for 3yrs and  being a community leader doesnt cut it for me. My vote is gonna go for McCain.. Yeah elpres i know what each part of the government do. Like Siknlow said, just take a look at what Congress has done under Bush's tenure... So you can put some of the turmoil in the world on bush, but the economy, blame that on Clinton.

5 Obama voters in my house

[quote=phrosttz0;191593]I agree i dont like his age... but I really dont like Obama. His tax and healthcare proposals. I really dont feel Obama has any experience, hes been in the senate what 3yrs? He really hasnt done anything spectacular there either. The republican party has the most experience, Palin in my mind has more experience then Obama, atleast she has been running a state. Sorry but being in Senate for 3yrs and being a community leader doesnt cut it for me. My vote is gonna go for McCain.. Yeah elpres i know what each part of the government do. Like Siknlow said, just take a look at what Congress has done under Bush's tenure... So you can put some of the turmoil in the world on bush, but the economy, blame that on Clinton.[/quote]
 
 
Why blame the economy on Clinton? When Clinton was president things were great ,economy was booming, and there were plenty of jobs. If you ask me I dont like Mcain or Obama. I wish we could get Clinton back :thumbsup: Mccain is to old and Obama don't know sheut

clinton is the one who had the idea "everyone should have homes" so the economy was booming, why cuz everyone was buying homes, even ppl that had no right financially were getting mortgages, signing mortgages with variable rates. in turn they defaulted payments, couldnt afford payment when rates were not so well,  and look mortgage crisis, foreclosures, banks going under.. just an idea..

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[quote=phillygs3;191618]Why blame the economy on Clinton? When Clinton was president things were great ,economy was booming, and there were plenty of jobs.[/quote]
 
I've stated this before and I will continue stating it till people wake up and understand how this works... Our economy is not affected instantly by what a president does during his term. Most presidencies will be out of office when their hard work comes into play. With that in mind let me introduce the young to the term Reaganomics.
 
The four basics being:
[LIST=1]
[*]reduce the growth of government spending,
[*]reduce marginal tax rates on income from labor and capital,
[*]reduce government regulation of the economy,
[*]control the money supply to reduce inflation.[/LIST]This was supposed to be a sixteen year plan in order to work efficiently and to be able to put our economy in such a stabilized and strong position that it would have literally been extremely hard to run it to the ground.... but after only twelve years of this plan being put in place, Clinton happened. We were already beginning to reap the rewards of Reaganomics, but he came into office and not only took credit for the economic boom, but in eight years undid the whole twelve years of hard work we as Americans put in and struggled through. He created bigger government and depleted a surplus that we had gained because of Reaganomics, so he handed over the reigns when it was beginning to come crashing down and here we are. 
 
When it comes to raising taxes on the rich... well I would have to disagree on that. I'm not rich by any means but fair is fair. If I make $75,000 and get taxed at 18% that's $13,500. If someone  rich makes $2,000,000 and gets taxed 50% (yes that's the real rate, for every million you keep half) they just got taxed $1,000,000... seems unfair to have to tax those that are already paying more than me... weird huh?:shrug: and then people wonder why large companies are outsourcing overseas to lower their costs and in turn laying off thousands upon thousands of employees... STOP KILLING OUR CORPORATIONS!

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unknown you are showing how truly ignorant you are about the world and about politics so please just stop posting.

as far as you obama lovers who want him to "bring home our troops" you couldn't have been lied to more or you didn't do your research...  Obama AND Mccain want to REINSTATE the draft!!  I know for a fact I don't want people in my beloved air force who were drafted in, just look at the disaster that has caused the military in the past.  He doesn't give a flying fuck about his antiwar hippy supporters yet they still support him, how pathetic...

[URL="http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/sep2008/obam-s13_prn.shtml"]Obama calls for US military mobilization[/URL]

unknown007 you're making very vague and nonsensical statements that don't add to topics, just dilute them, or even incite confusion.
 
as for money running us, sorry, but last time I checked it was money that got us our rides, homes, food, and clothes on our back so whether you admit it or not money runs your life. The only people that say money isn't everything are those that don't have any.

TO add to the Reaganomics etc,  It is the financial do gooder plans put in place by Clinton admin that got us to where we are right now.  His admin put in place the lending programs to those that were unfit and unqualified.  In the beginning it seemed great because low income families and first time buyers could get loans for a home, but then it got out of hand and the DEM. congress did not do its job regulating it.  So you then have all the subprime crap going down and no watch dog.  It finally blows up and the people that don't really get it blame the guy in the white house when it blows up instead of the guy that started the programs that got us there.

I used to be a Democrat and I am NOT a Republican, so don't think I am trying to impress my political views on you all, I am simply stating the facts.  

If you think that taxes will only come from the rich your sorely mistaken. Also, there was a comment about Trump.  If you tax a guy like that he will just make enough losing investments to offset his gains and then not have to pay that much in the end. Who suffers then???? the average joe because he can't afford to buy a huge office building that may be worth 50 million but take a lose of 10 or 12 million just to offset his gains.  Guys like trump don't care if they are taking a lose on paper because they would rather have that money tied up in a sellable investment in the future than pay cash to the Government today.  I know because our clients do it alll the time....

I'm not happy with either candidate at all, but I can tell you this...Our economy has a ways to go before it will start to turn around and Obama does not have the plans to fix it quickly.  

I leave you with this last idea.  If you tax the hell out of the rich.... Shit, lets just say it....if you tax the people that create jobs and have employees those people will find a way to cut their loses and the easiest thing to do when your not make as much money is fire workers and lower your cost of business.  So if you work for someone else.....your the person that needs to really be careful who you vote for.

What's wrong with the draft?  I think people should serve at least a few years..it might make some of these snot nosed kids learn a little respect and how to handle life without Mommy and Daddy wiping their ass for 30 years.

Seriously.  The draft has nothing to do with troops in Iraq.  That was a silly thing to say.  Draft does not equal war.  Hell, if it were up to me I'd have EVERY able bodied young man and women serve at least 2 years after high school...just to learn about REALITY.  Then they can do whatever the hell they want after that.  Does that mean I'd want war?  Hell no, but we'd be more ready for it if we HAD to do it.

Yah, money gets things done, but don't let it run your life either..just let it help you along the way and get to where you want to be.  Maybe that's what he meant to say?  Who knows...dude needs to think out his responses.

Reagan was one thing...the Bush family is something entirely different.  Too much corruption..and if you try to tell us otherwise you'd better have a good explanation.  McCain reminds me way to much of Bush...only he has a few more words in his vocabulary.

[QUOTE=burgy;191686]In the beginning it seemed great because low income families and first time buyers could get loans for a home, but then it got out of hand and the DEM. [B][COLOR="Red"]congress did not do its job[/COLOR][/B] regulating it.  [/QUOTE]
Bingo...not Clinton.  Why do I keep having to explain that the President doesn't have sole responsibility for what goes on??  And guess what...Congress is some what half made up of Republicans too...not just Democrats..so I mean, come on people.

I also am not a politics person.  I' have no party affiliation.  I just don't like where McCain wants to take us.  Plain and simple..do I think Obama has the experience?  No, I wish we had Hillary running as the Democratic Nominee.   But it just wasn't in the cards..so I choose the lesser of two evils.  I'd rather have a well spoken intelligent man as our figure head than some old self righteous dude.

There's ups and downs to both sides.  Believe me, both don't like where the economy is.  So why not think about getting our country in gear first..then worry about helping other countries.

[quote=burgy;191686]
I leave you with this last idea. If you tax the hell out of the rich.... Shit, lets just say it....if you tax the people that create jobs and have employees those people will find a way to cut their loses and the easiest thing to do when your not make as much money is fire workers and lower your cost of business. So if you work for someone else.....your the person that needs to really be careful who you vote for.[/quote]
 
 
Well said.... to add to that please think on this, I work hard for my money and I enjoy the freedoms to do as I please with my money. I don't want to have my money taken away because a lot of able bodied people around the country would rather sit at home and collect welfare/unemployment/general relief rather than work as hard a s I do to make something of themselves. 
 
I know not everyone abuses the system but the majority do, plain and simple. Case and point, when welfare started getting stricter here in California (still not strict enough in my opinion) a lot of women started getting pregnant to offset that steady income they lost with a new form of steady income.... Child Support. The laws here in California are so stupid, that you can't even request for a paternity test to verify you are the father before getting your paycheck garnished, what's worst is that if you get one on your own the judges and the district attorneys won't allow it in court as evidence of your not being the father, the system works for them since it gives the state more big government payouts from the feds if they continue having to produce paperwork on so many cases. This is not only unconstitutional, but disgusting at the same time.
 
If you think the Dems are your friends because they are for the people... I'm sorry but the USSR was also "for the people", socialism doesn't work, and yes I know that neither party is perfect and that Republicans are just as full of flaws if not more, but what I'm saying is vote carefully and please, think of how it will affect your livelihood, and ability, to live the llifestyle you are accustomed to.

[QUOTE=elpresidente;191687]What's wrong with the draft?  I think people should serve at least a few years..it might make some of these snot nosed kids learn a little respect and how to handle life without Mommy and Daddy wiping their ass for 30 years.

Seriously.  The draft has nothing to do with troops in Iraq.  That was a silly thing to say.  Draft does not equal war.  Hell, if it were up to me I'd have EVERY able bodied young man and women serve at least 2 years after high school...just to learn about REALITY.  Then they can do whatever the hell they want after that.  Does that mean I'd want war?  Hell no, but we'd be more ready for it if we HAD to do it.[/QUOTE]

The silly thing to say is that the draft will not equal war.  Any person with a basic understanding of American history knows that drafts are always a prerequisite to a full scale war.  I'm not one to start shit with a former military man but you sir have got to be joking when you say every man and woman serve 2 years.  That is the just going to tack on to the loss of freedoms in this country and further throw the constitution down the shit hole.  Honestly if you say you want to call all Americans to public service for a bullshit cause or stay in the middle east for 100 years because we have to maintain our empire, you promote socialism and destroy the hope our forefathers had for this country.  :thelaw:

[quote=tbrack;191713]I'm not one to start shit with a former military man but you sir have got to be joking when you say every man and woman serve 2 years. That is the just going to tack on to the loss of freedoms in this country and further throw the constitution down the shit hole. Honestly if you say you want to call all Americans to public service for a bullshit cause or stay in the middle east for 100 years because we have to maintain our empire, you promote socialism and destroy the hope our forefathers had for this country. :thelaw:[/quote]
 
That's not what he meant, and by the way that isn't socialism, what you described is imperialism, which is what Russia is attempting to push in the old breakaway countries of the former USSR.
 
I believe what he meant is that if it was given as a requisite after graduation it would help build character and a sense of self worth to 85% of todays youth who don't even know what they want to do after high school.
 
[SIZE=4][COLOR=red]All I ask is that everyone remain respectful in their responses and please no personal attacks, this is an intellectual discussion of thought, ideologies, and beliefs and no one person's are better than another's.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

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Obama...

Click the Pics Yellow Top to Read vvvv[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/34imn1s.png[/IMG]
 
This is not Serious.. Just Comic Relief :smiley-rofl:
But If You VOTE for OBAMA YOU WILL GET LAID!!!! - SHIT YEA!!!
 
 
Click the Link Below
 
[URL]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=zu0MIz4kbps[/URL]

McCains primary concern is to make oil companies richer.

He wants:
- More Drilling = more oil profit.
- War in Iraq & Iran = more oil profit.
- No specific green targets (only feel good waffle!) = more oil profit.
- Gas Tax Holiday = higher prices & more oil profit (it's been tried).
- No windfall tax on Big Oil to invest in raising car MPGs = more oil profit.
- Alaskan VP is married to the oil industry = more oil profit.

McCain has been bought & paid for.
He works for them. 
 
Obama '08

[QUOTE=ClutchOne;191765]McCains primary concern is to make oil companies richer.

He wants:
- More Drilling = more oil profit.
- War in Iraq & Iran = more oil profit.
- No specific green targets (only feel good waffle!) = more oil profit.
- Gas Tax Holiday = higher prices & more oil profit (it's been tried).
- No windfall tax on Big Oil to invest in raising car MPGs = more oil profit.
- Alaskan VP is married to the oil industry = more oil profit.

McCain has been bought & paid for.
He works for them. 
 
Obama '08[/QUOTE]
Exactly why I said I see Bush family values all over again.  Seriously...

Which is odd since in this campaign and in every campaign before it ALL CANDIDATES ARE ON THE TAKE FROM OIL INDUSTRY MONEY...
 
 
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=red][B]In a new ad, Obama says, "I don’t take money from oil companies."[/B][/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=red][B]Technically, that's true, since a law that has been on the books for more than a century prohibits corporations from giving money directly to any federal candidate. But that doesn’t distinguish Obama from his rivals in the race.[/B][/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=red][B]We find the statement misleading:[/B][/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=red][B]Obama has accepted more than $213,000 from individuals who work for companies in the oil and gas industry and their spouses. [/B][/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][COLOR=red][B]Two of Obama's bundlers are top executives at oil companies and are listed on his Web site as raising between $50,000 and $100,000 for the presidential hopeful.[/B][/COLOR][/FONT] 
 
excerpted from [URL="http://www.factcheck.org"]www.factcheck.org[/URL] "Obama's Oil Spill"

Your on point SikNLow, cant agree with you anymore then I already do, someone knows whats up..

Obama, most of the debate has been discussed here already but it started to just run in circles after a while. I freaking fell asleep watching it.

Feel free to add to my list:

All polititicians lie.
Money is God.
The war has gone on too long.
Our economy is in the slumps.
We have a growing deficiet.
America is not owned by americans.
People do not take responsability.
We will be facing inflation and soon our money will not be worth crap.
Terrible candidates running for President.

Things do need to change in our country, IMO drastically! But throwing money at our problem will NOT fix it. Restructuring is the only solution and if that means breaking the hearts of companies, corporations, families, creditors, and foreign countries, then these are the reprocussions of the life-styles and choices we made and were made for us both. We need to stop bailing out everyone and return to reality IMO.

So I guess I'll be voting McCain as the lesser of two evils.  Not my favorite choice to have to make, but it's what will be best for the US economy.

[quote=burgy;191862]So I guess I'll be voting McCain as the lesser of two evils. Not my favorite choice to have to make, but it's what will be best for the US economy.[/quote]
 
 
McCain's Main Goal is WAR. 100 More Years at an Outstanding Amount of Money that is being Taken From the US Economy. 
Vote for McCain If You want to Continue the WAR and Ruin the Economy More Than Ever Before.
 
[URL]http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home[/URL]
 
Obama wants to Stop the WAR and Focus on the Economy. If your Main Concern is the American Economy, Vote For OBAMA. 
OBAMA will End the War and Put the Money Spent there into the ReContruction of the Americans Economy. 
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ctgw9VyV_0[/URL]

.

after i heard McCain's comments when Russia invaded Georgia.  He seems like he wanted to rally support to start a war w/ Russia...i was like WTF!  Dont drive this country into another war.  Not worth it man. We need a new figure out there to promote peace and devlopment.  We need a president that has the respect of the international countries.  I dont think any country out there wants another republican cowboy tough guy image of Mccain.  fouck man im tired of all this damn war. Expensive as Fouck!  Vote for Mccain and this Republican BullShit will Not End and we will BE dragged to more wars w/ Iran, drama w/ Russia, drama w/ N.Korea.  man fuck that shit. I dont need that shit.   bring the troops back and spend money here.  build some Green power so we wont be dependent on foreign oil dammit.  OBAMA for 08!

Thank you.
 
 
[URL]http://punditkitchen.com/[/URL]
 
Now Im Just Going to wait for a Republican Response ... :smiley-rofl:

[quote=Siknlow;191640]
This was supposed to be a sixteen year plan in order to work efficiently and to be able to put our economy in such a stabilized and strong position that it would have literally been extremely hard to run it to the ground.... but after only twelve years of this plan being put in place, Clinton happened. We were already beginning to reap the rewards of Reaganomics, but he came into office and not only took credit for the economic boom, but in eight years undid the whole twelve years of hard work we as Americans put in and struggled through. He created bigger government and depleted a surplus that we had gained because of Reaganomics, so he handed over the reigns when it was beginning to come crashing down and here we are. 
 
[/quote]
 
:smiley-rofl:
 
I have to Disagree with the Statement Above of Blaming the Nations Current Economy on Clinton...:innoutrofl2:
 
I dont Know But Just "MAYBE" Its the Costly WAR that has Americas Economy in Shambles... :shrug:
 
 
[IMG]http://i33.tinypic.com/2jfiqhg.jpg[/IMG]

.

In case anyone was wondering why our country is in the financial crisis it is readthis from the NY times 1999...
 
[URL]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print[/URL]

[quote=burgy;192048]In case anyone was wondering why our country is in the financial crisis it is readthis from the NY times 1999...
 
[URL]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print[/URL][/quote]
 
hahahaha you beat me to it burgy!!! Let's see someone deny the Clinton administration's liability for that one hahahahahaha :smiley-rofl:
 
[quote][b]"Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits. "[/b][/quote]

lol good one burgy

Thanks, I'm not trying to tell anyone who to vote for.  I just want people to realize what they are actually voting for and what reprecussions it will have.  This could turn out to be the most important election in our lives.  I wish people would get this heated over their choices for state Representatives, I mean lets face it, Congress has been just as much to blame and very few people even pay attention to that election.
 
I have no problem if someone says they want to vote for Obama whatever reason they choose, they just need to accept that the economics of this country will be worse off for that choice.  I agree that some of the other political issues can go both ways, but I would rather have a safer economy here at home....even if it means we have to accept the Republicans views on War etc...

[QUOTE=burgy;192065]Thanks, I'm not trying to tell anyone who to vote for.  I just want people to realize what they are actually voting for and what reprecussions it will have.  This could turn out to be the most important election in our lives.  I wish people would get this heated over their choices for state Representatives, I mean lets face it, Congress has been just as much to blame and very few people even pay attention to that election.
[B][I] 
I have no problem if someone says they want to vote for Obama whatever reason they choose, they just need to accept that the economics of this country will be worse off for that choice.  I agree that some of the other political issues can go both ways, but I would rather have a safer economy here at home....even if it means we have to accept the Republicans views on War etc[/I][/B]...[/QUOTE]

Look man, the truth is that NOONE knows whom the best candidate is and who will do the best job. We only have our opinions and what drives them. So it is your opinion that believes the country will be better off w/ the candidate of your choice. Making statements like the one you just did, is not a mature way to go about expressing your view, IMO if you want to come across a say things like that, you should at least give the readers an oppurtunity to agree w/ you by making the case. If you don't want to spend the time to do that (and educate) then you should keep in mind that it is a broad statment open to attacks and makes your view seem short-sighted. Just a thought...i think your smarter than that.

[quote=augdogg;192067]Look man, the truth is that NOONE knows whom the best candidate is and who will do the best job. We only have our opinions and what drives them. So it is your opinion that believes the country will be better off w/ the candidate of your choice. Making statements like the one you just did, is not a mature way to go about expressing your view, [B]IMO if you want to come across a say things like that, you should at least give the readers an oppurtunity to agree w/ you by making the case. If you don't want to spend the time to do that (and educate) then you should keep in mind that it is a broad statment open to attacks and makes your view seem ignorant. Just a thought...i think your smarter than that.[/B][/quote]
 
 
I believe he did state his case already and has already supported it with facts. We all agree that this time around we are all getting the short end of the stick when it comes to selection for president, but we cannot tell someone that they are ignorant for stating an opinion if so then wouldn't the bold portion of my quote of you then in turn be ignorant too?

[QUOTE=SikNLow;192070]I believe he did state his case already and has already supported it with facts. We all agree that this time around we are all getting the short end of the stick when it comes to selection for president, but we cannot tell someone that they are ignorant for stating an opinion if so then wouldn't the bold portion of my quote of you then in turn be ignorant too?[/QUOTE]

My bad robert, wasn't out to put anyone on blast or label Burgy for his genuine opinion. I'll re-read the thread again to find that point i was looking for.....(searching).....

I saw a perspective involving the taxing of companies and the rich, something about trump, Reagonomics, Clinton bashing...etc.

I guess i'm asking for too much. :shrug:

Again, there are other issues that are more important to some voters and I will not even begin to speak about those issues as i have not done the research regarding them.

[quote=augdogg;192074]My bad robert, wasn't out to put anyone on blast or label Burgy for his genuine opinion. I'll re-read the thread again to find that point i was looking for.....(searching).....
 
I saw a perspective involving the taxing of companies and the rich, something about trump, Reagonomics, Clinton bashing...etc.
 
I guess i'm asking for too much. :shrug:[/quote]
hahaha never Augg, you can never ask for too much when it comes to your freedoms and liberties my man!!!! :biggthumpup: it was a misunderstanding and we need to [quote=McCain]'focus on not who is to blame but what we can do to get out of this...[/quote]

[QUOTE=SikNLow;192083]hahaha never Augg, you can never ask for too much when it comes to your freedoms and liberties my man!!!! :biggthumpup: it was a misunderstanding and we need to[/QUOTE]

I get it (harsh love) Sik:slap:Aug (but i like it)...no homo!

[quote=augdogg;192085]I get it (harsh love) Sik:slap:Aug (but i like it)...no homo![/quote]
 
 
hahahahaha NO HOMO!

Reason Number 28 of Why Im Voting for Obama 
 
[IMG]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/2909496470_d751e8a3dc.jpg?v=0[/IMG]
 
:shrug:

Just In Case you Missed the Debate 
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXJ4Dk33cCQ[/URL]

What does Obama have to do with the Clinton campaign?  I think people are going around the edges of issues and not on the details of the issues.  That and people are confusing past issues/resolutions with present offerings.  McCain is not a "Maverick".  I lol when I hear that...I've yet to see him exhibit great independence in thought and actions.  McCain a non-conformist..a rebel??  Hahahaha...omfg, please.

Lemme try to bring this full circle since were gettin a bit deep here at VSC :biggthumpup:
 
That article is misleading and the root of the housing crisis are bad lenders and the laws that were created to fleece America...not institutions that are required to back said loans. Lending Institutions came with all sorts of creative financing to take advantage of a good system that was designed to help lower income people afford the American Dream. 
 
[B]Lets get into this:[/B] Phil Gramm who is [B]now[/B] John McCains Chief financial advisor[COLOR=red]*[/COLOR] and former Texas Senator. came up with the [I]Commodity Futures Modernization Act[/I] and passed it thru a bill, Just A few days after Bush was sworn into office. 
 
The Act was designed to keep regulators from controlling new financial tools described as credit "swaps." These are instruments like sub-prime mortgages bundled up and sold as securities. Under this new Bill neither the SEC nor the Commodities Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) were able to examine financial institutions like hedge funds or investment banks to guarantee they had the assets necessary to cover losses they were guaranteeing...slick, for sum....those being the rich who were about to get richer.
 
Banks were in a rush to spend the windfall of money that was left by the Clinton era and padded their portfolio with loans...many were bad loans but it looks good to share holders and the market speculators. So the financial institutions were doin it [I]Yahoo style[/I]. remember when their stock was trading for 100's, yet the company really wasnt worth shit? yeah, your local banks were doing the same thing.
 
Yahoo eventually turned a profit and the stock adjusted to much lower levels. The lending institutions are just sayin...fuck it. You (tax payers) pay for our bad investing and ignoring the monster we created. 
 
They took mortgages instruments from anyone who asked...the CEOs (Like our local WaMu bank) walked with MILLIONS with deals that were put in place while they were inflating shit with bad loans. 
 
 
Also, I do think half of this falls on the borrowers. If youve lived in an apartment all your life, never held the title to a decent car, didnt have 20% down...what makes you think you can buy a 500k home? [B]And then go in and refi their homes because the housing market is peaking?!? [/B]uh, your primary home isnt a piggy bank.:pat: are u freakin kidding me? Now they dont want to own up to the responsibility of a double mortgaged home? 
 
 
 
** if you cant go full Doc on the loan then you shouldnt have your ass in said home anyway**
 
yeah, creative financing got them in the door...but they had no 'game plan' after the teaser rates expire. The smart ones did and are lovin life for the opportunity. the dumb ones did nothing to improve themselves after being handed the keys. 
 
I dont feel sorry for [B]those[/B] types that are losing their homes. they didnt put in the work to EARN a home like that in the first place. 
 
so the blame is 70 - 30 in my eyes. People got taken advantage of...butwere guilty of being ignorant...which is never an excuse.
 
[I]exceptions:[/I]
There are good, hardworking families that have fallen on hard times and I think its a shame that they provide corporate welfare for the rich but cant help people who are trying to heat their homes with the rising price of fuel. 
 
[COLOR=#ff0000]*[/COLOR]Thats the difference between the mac and obama's policy plans. You can have 4-8 more years of the same or we can try another direction. 
 
Oh, If I see one more [I]Republican[/I] complaining about "I cant afford Mods or Gas" im gonna jump thru my monitor and choke the crap outta of them. :smiley-rofl:
 
And here I thought Republicans were against Big Government :smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl:
 
soooo, Im keepin it real as usual, not forgetting where I came from and leaving the door open for the people behind me by voting [B]Obama[/B] :biggthumpup:
 
/Rant =)

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;193156]** if you cant go full Doc on the loan then you shouldnt have your ass in said home anyway**[/QUOTE]

Not tryin to steal your wind cuz your well put... but we only needed to go full doc on clients w/ inadequet assets verification and lower credit scores...:shrug:

[quote=augdogg;193163]Not tryin to steal your wind cuz your well put... but we only needed to go full doc on clients w/ inadequet assets verification and lower credit scores...:shrug:[/quote]
 
 
I feel Thats part of the problem...Sorry, I shouldve went into more detail with that statement....but the rest was soo long winded :sad:
 
There are people who [B]didnt[/B] have bad credit...but that doesnt mean they could afford the homes they were buying. They make up the worst offenders. they took out loans and then refied and raped the markets.
 
Seriously, How many people do we even see on car forums that are living beyond their means with credit? How many people would mod the way they do without their mastercard or VISA? How many would be rolling in newer Lexus cars? How many people mod cars with school loans? How many times have you seen someone with a 50k car...yet live in an apartment? Not knockin anyone...but [I]it is what it is[/I].:sad:
 
this whole thing has to be restructured back to Clinton/Regan era to be fixed. Those guys knew how to make money like a baller...the Bush administration knows how to spend like one. ;)
 
Will that make it harder to buy a home? YES...without a doubt. But thats the way it needs to be to keep the country stable. We need to get back to core values when hard work pays off...not easy credit terms to line the pockets of facilitators and the people above them....at the expense of the middle class. 
 
Ive never seen so many Republicans jump ship....but at the same time, Ive never seen so many broke ass people that claim Republican :smiley-rofl:
 
If persons arent sittin on a few properties, a few (paid for) cars and enough liquid to float you by thru hard times, Id strongly suggest people vote [B]the right[/B] way.
 
 
I dont really like politics. All sides have their good and bad. People should figure out which one is best for their family and not follow blindly because they are suppose to vote a certain way. 
 
since theres no "Lets keep it real" party....I claim neither but vote for the one that will help me and my fam succeed in the current climate. 
 
[CENTER]As the current economic crisis has shown: Fake it till u make it doesnt work when the bills keep rolling in. :dance:[/CENTER]

 
 
depressing topic, I need new shoes to make me feel better now:sad:

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;193167]depressing topic, I need new shoes to make me feel better now:sad:[/QUOTE]

I see your point....shop till ya drop homie!:dance:

I don't even have a credit card so sorry driftgrl. Also facts are facts when you talk about rhetoric from republicans.... I donly completely disagree.... But I'm also not blind enough to not see that Obama is just another democrat with an affirmative action education....not real change there either. The only Garauntee is that if Obama takes office taxes will go up I don't care what empty campaign promises he makes.

All i got to say is buckle up, cuz wit this bailout we are all screwed....

^werd scary ish.   Can I vote "present" for president?

The credit comment wasnt directed at anyone....if people feel the need to respond, have at it I guess. 
 
I find it comical to read about republicans who always claim to want big government out of daily lives...yet seek a handout or sum sort of Affirmative action for rich folks. 
 
As a Republican, one should be OK with taxes going up? surely u can afford it if you vote to support the wealthiest of the nation?? No more of this "Magical Politics", As a Nation we are in the worst debt since WW2..which was a REAL WORLD WAR. Only someone not versed in money would assume people can get out of debt without paying it off....theres no way. Very simple math. 
 
Yes, All Politicians lie...numbers dont
 
[COLOR=magenta]The National Debt has continued to increase an average of[/COLOR]
[COLOR=magenta]$3.08 billion per day since September 28, 2007![/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=magenta]The estimated population of the United States is 304,847,020[/COLOR]
[COLOR=magenta]so each citizen's share of this debt is $33,309.27.[/COLOR]
 
If anyone can just drop 33k [B][COLOR=darkgreen]in CASH[/COLOR][/B] and not 'hurt'...then they should feel free to vote for any party. If you cant, Id suggest you vote for the party that has ur best interest at heart. 
 
You can use Obamas tax plan and get taxed less (if u make under 250k per year) or you can go with McCain and get taxed more.
 
His thinking is that people with under 4million are just "middle class"...and as we all know: The middle class is the backbone of America where all the money is made and debt is eaten up. 
 
If people can relate to a guy thats lost track of the number of homes he owns...y'all are doin muuuch better than me.....and I need a freakin Loan! :giggity:
 
speaking of debt, the national debt clock is [B]running out of numbers[/B] and will roll over very soon. The people who built it thought it was silly to make it any larger at the time :( 
 
[B]I BS u not[/B] 
 
Im not here telling people to vote for this guy or that guy. Thats YOUR decisions to make. However, please be informed as to who is on your side...whatever side that may be.

oh my...whats this? Big Ballin ass Republicans askin for a handout? :smiley-rofl:
 
[URL]http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-calif3-2008oct03,0,5726760.story?track=rss[/URL]
Now EVERYONE is asking for a handout. Who do u think will get stuck with these bills folks? yup...u n me. 
 
This is where the problen starts and will end with the fabric and base of our economys history being torn up by greed....
 
The Bush failure is complete. He's manage to make our worst nitemares come true...The only  thing worse I can see now, would be Space Aliens invading earth.:smiley-rofl:
 
[B]ANY[/B] Change or 4 to 8 more years of the same?

[IMG]http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee108/augdogg77/DVader.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][B][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]"George Bush, Your Failure Is Now Complete!"[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

Augdogg for Pres!! ^^^^^^^^^ :smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl:

My bad, just some sat morning cartoon humor...

I didn't take it personal I was simply stating that there are people that are fiscally responsible.  Driftgirl, I'm really surprised at your heated responses since you usually are very diplomatic.    By the way McCain doesn't know how many houses they were referring to because he DOESN'T own them! His wife owns it all.   And since this thread has become so heated I would like to state for the record that I don't like McCain either. My choice never had a chance and I am trying to decide who to vote for by trying to figure out which one will do the least harm.

nooooooooooooooooooooo.......please re read it,I think ur lookin too deep into my post. :innoutrofl2:
LoL!! Im not heated about anything. Just making a point, not directed anyone...just the situation. 
 
My financial life revolves around realestate investing, which explains the passion..it was nothing more :) 
 
I know how many houses my next door neighbor owns...and I hardly talk to them. I just find it odd that one wouldnt know their spouses financial situation. If your girlfriend/wife told u she bought a house....LAST YEAR. You'd be like, WTF?!?! and then tells u that she bought 4 the prevous year...
 
If there are people that are in that same situation and have so much wealth that they dont bother to ask...more power to them and I wish I were in their shoes[COLOR=orange]*[/COLOR]
 
but im not and cant relate to their financial situation(as much as id like to) and find it extra odd that anyone would expect the average person to "understand" just because they have so much money....im jus not feeling him on that. 
 
[COLOR=yellowgreen]on Da flip siiiiide!!!![/COLOR] 
 
Democrats Fight to make u a part of the [I]American dream[/I] and then want to punish people for making the American dream come true. ... Funny how that works huh? LoL!!
 
We are at a fork in the road with our country...And Im nervous for [B]our [/B]future. With the debt we're growing, I wont have money to mod my Mobility Scooter at the retirement home:sad:
 
 
[COLOR=#ffa500]* [COLOR=silver]If anyone falls in that catagory, please send your pocket change Via paypal to[/COLOR]  [EMAIL="BippuCouture@yahoo.com"]BippuCouture@yahoo.com[/EMAIL]  [COLOR=silver]for the[/COLOR] [/COLOR][COLOR=darkgreen][B]Emerald General Shoe Fund[/B][/COLOR]
 
[CENTER][COLOR=#ffa500]This message approved by DriftGirl:biggthumpup:[/COLOR][/CENTER]
 
 
 
oh yeah, Kimbo Slice is fighting on CBS tonight :dance:

DriftGirl, I seriously <3 you. lol.  You put it all so well. When I see people in my city driving a busted ass beater and STILL have a big 'ol W sticker on it, I simply shake my head in disbelief.  It's obvious they're not wealthy, they're driving a car that's falling apart, yet they continue to support the single largest failure as a President in US history, and he's bringing the WHOLE WORLD DOWN with him!  They continue to support someone who absolutely has ZERO concern about them! They continue to support a man who's policies only benefit the very wealthiest people, yet they will slam Obama and do all they can to deride him and compare him with terrrrerists cause of his name.

No socialized health care for all us, but YES to socialized care for failed mega businesses!  Seems asssss backwards to me.

Yeah, I can only hope and pray we get a new direction in the next few weeks voted in and NOT 4 or 8 more years of misery and misguided blunders.

[IMG]http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu/archives/images/st-obama-of-assisi.jpg[/IMG]

hahahahaha careful, people might start to believe he can heal them of cancer too..... :innoutrofl2:

I don't get it...

I think people are trying to say that those of us who support Obama think he's our savior.  I personally don't feel that way, I just think he's an incredibly smart, self motivated and self starting individual who doesn't give up and earned everything he's got himself. He's by far and a way the best choice we've got.

He's not here to hoodwink ya, and he won't have to go find answers and bring 'em back to ya!  By golly-gosh-kins.

[quote=burgy;193171]But I'm also not blind enough to not see that Obama is just another democrat with an affirmative action education....[/quote]

That's not racist or anything... :thelaw:

Can't you see how creepy that old dude really is?  To me, his "mission" seems all too obvious.  And apPalin...I mean, that was the best they could come up with?  Were the other Mom's too busy at soccer practice?  Haha, I kid!  But seriously..she seems like the worst possible choice.

Just so everyone knows. Palin made my vote easy to decide.

[quote=augdogg;193769]Just so everyone knows. Palin made my vote easy to decide.[/quote]
 
 
[IMG]http://i36.tinypic.com/1tolqu.jpg[/IMG]
 
:smiley-rofl:

Aww shucks, ya can't just go pokin fun at 'em cause they like shiney objects, now can ya!  


:runcoold::smiley-rofl:

After watching this video, I realized that McCain has his priorities straight
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc5ObA_k2dc"][YOUTUBE]Xc5ObA_k2dc[/URL][/YOUTUBE]

[IMG]http://bp3.blogger.com/_iKcZ3qcCmyo/R_bTK4HUFoI/AAAAAAAAGkU/cnJfQKQw_wE/s400/Che_Obama_1.jpg[/IMG]

this is what decided it for me.... I'm a conservative of sorts and I would have voted for Biden had he won the nomination, based on his formidable record. But when he lost the nomination and became Nobama's running mate, I just couldn't believe it..... how do you get to praising someone as the world's new savior after this?
 
 
 
 
[youtube]RDVUPqoowf8[/youtube]
 
 
 
 
 
 
[IMG]http://husaria.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/osama_obama.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.thenappycat.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/obama-email-anthem.JPG[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://777denny.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/barackobamaandliberationtheology.jpg[/IMG]

When it comes down to it, I just can't bring myself to vote for the McCain ticket because I think Sarah Palin is flat out unfit to be our Vice President.  I am a neutral in this presidential race, and after reviewing the two candidate's plans for our country, I think Obama has a much better plan than McCain's.  I agree more with Obama's healthcare plan, economic views, and plans for the taking the war to Afghanistan and target Osama bin Laden rather than keep pouring money into Iraq.  In all honesty though, it's pretty sad that a lot of people are voting based on what they see on TV and read on the internet rather than doing research and finding out who has a better platform for the country.

FYI, you don't have to cross your heart during the NATIONAL ANTHEM.  It's just a song.  You DO have to cross it during the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.  That photo was shot during the NATIONAL ANTHEM.  Get a clue, and do some research. Don't just buy every made up nonsense email someone sends you.


Osama <3 Obama?  Last time I checked, it's the BUSH FAMILY who's in BUSINESS with the Bin Laden family.  

FAIL.

hhahahha no need to get hurt i mean aaww shucks, you can't get mad over a little humor can yuh?  :smiley-rofl: what's good for the goose......:innoutrofl2:

Palin- just one heartbeat away. Enough said:shrug:, Obama has my vote.

McCain hates puppies!!!!
 
Who hates puppies?????

McCain does!!!! and so do I that's why I'm voting for him!!! besides the Democrat haven known as California doesn't allow puppies to be born anymore ....

The SNL Sarah Palin/Joe Biden VP Debate FULL VERSION with Tina Fey :innoutrofl2:
 
 
 
[URL]http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/vp-debate-open-palin-biden/727421/[/URL]
 
Maverick :shrug:

This is funny to me!! hhahaha
 
 
[youtube]GoIwU26Tcz0[/youtube]
 
 
Key paraphrase: We're going to have a campaign free of the usual manipulations and distortions, we're going to run a campaign we can be proud of. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
But that was then and this is now: 
 
 
 
[youtube]TQ_FLa2zsy0[/youtube]
 
 
 
Stipulated McCain's comments were "inartful" to say the least. But can anyone say that the number of McCain's houses (and him knowing them) is a relevant issue of any consequence? Please. Rich people are not like you and I and McCain's money is not really his, but his wife's. Depending on the distribution of assets among their various persons, corporations and trusts, the number of houses could be a tricky one (and that's assuming he just didn't want to answer an obvious rich guy narrative trap). But Obama needs a break, and this is a break, and all that verbage about clean and different campaigns are out the window.
 
 
 
 
[IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/implicitautosports/BARACK-LIAR-POSTER.jpg[/IMG]

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[quote=ClutchOne;194073][IMG]http://i34.tinypic.com/2vnfgbt.jpg[/IMG]
 
 
 
 
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Every one of these is "priceless" !  lol

I can see Catalina Island on clear days, so that means I'm an expert on Catalina Island.  BUT, I've never been there!  Still, I'm an expert with Catalina Island relations qualifications!  LOLLLLLLL

And I love Tina Fey, 30 Rock is one of my top 2 shows, she frickin NAILED Palin, to a gosh darned T.

Obama really screwed up when he didnt select Clinton as a running mate. This Race wouldve been [B]OVER[/B] before it even started had she been on the ticket. IMHO..
 
[B]The Vice pres debate: [/B]
Biden had to make it seem like he wasnt talking down to Palin and the Republican card knew it...Clinton wouldve eaten her alive during that debate!! :smiley-rofl:...uh, even[B][SIZE=4] I [/SIZE][/B]wouldve smashed her in that Debate. The Hockey mom wouldve left lookin like a Hockey [B]PLAYER![/B] :biggthumpup: 
 
 
[B]As far as Mccain's wealth[/B]....its not a complicated question to answer. I have Land trusts that I operate thru. Im callin BS on anyone/company who doesnt know what their personal assets are....Bullshit. Show 2, Hide 4 on a personal level. If you're into Land development deals you know the numbers. 
 
[I]"Oh, you should understand..its not HIS money, its his WIFES money"[/I] what Average American lives like that? PLEEEASE!!!! :smiley-rofl: 
 
C'mon now, you guys [B]ALL [/B]know how much money your girlfriends have...[B]ALL OF YOU.[/B] If you two were [I][B]married[/B][/I], youd know how many BF's she's had, cars she's ever owned in her lifetime and every other little detail that couples know about each other. 
 
I HATE [I]name droppers[/I] but damn, I know people (and couples) worth millions:
 
They range from Celebs you see on TV and in Movies everyday, Sports figures and normal folks who have done well for themselves*. They[B] ALL[/B] know how many PERSONAL homes they own. 
 
*Sum are into development deals and have money into several projects...but that wasnt the question. 
 
They asked "HOW MANY PERSONAL HOMES DO YOU OWN"? uh, he didnt know...and said he'd "Get [U]his people[/U] to get back with them to answer it" :pat:
 
I find that statement comical...whats even funnier are the people who arent on that level claiming they can [I]relate to it.[/I] :slap:
 
Those who can 'relate' and should be sticking up for such an absurd statement are either rich as hell[B][COLOR=sandybrown]* [/COLOR][/B]or old as hell and simply forgetting shit....which is it? 
 
Palin and her family doesnt own that much (personal holdings and income) and im sure she was like "WTF...are you kiddin me"??!?! :smiley-rofl:
 
 
Obama made a mistake saying that family issues are "Off the table". The republicans will not run a clean race and will dig up a quote from Obama's gardners, uncles ,3rd cousin if they could. Obama cant control what sum grown ass man thinks or said in his own church. and when ya think about it...we've heard that same stuff from other TV pastors.
 
thats stuff you have no control over....Now, Palin and her squad of bad ass kids? thats a different story. She should be in control of her household, Hands down.
 
 
Why not comment on the fact that Palin cant even run her own household and is expected to run the whitehouse? :pat:
 
 
 
Why not talk about her husbands political views? 
 
The core of the republican party is keeping big Government out of daily lives and family Values....that [B]SOUNDS[/B] good....but not really what they're about these days huh?
 
Right now the Dems are responding to attacks...F that! they need to launch their own. =)
 
I understand they want to run a clean race and take out the BS...But I wanna know everyones dirt before elevating 'whoever' to the most powerful position in the world... Nothing should be "Off the table" 
 
 
[COLOR=sandybrown]* [COLOR=white]Again, My Paypal addy is: [/COLOR][EMAIL="BippuCouture@yahoo.com"]BippuCouture@yahoo.com[/EMAIL] [/COLOR][COLOR=white]for all u [COLOR=darkgreen][B]big ballers[/B][/COLOR] who dont know how much money u have. Please send sum of that [I]spare change[/I] ( that u surely wont miss ) to the new[B] " [U]DriftGirl [SIZE=3]needs[/SIZE] an S15 Fund[/U] " [/B][/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=white][B]I cant relate to having THAT MUCH MONEY....BUT WOULD CERTAINLY LIKE TO TRY[/B][/COLOR]

[CENTER][COLOR=darkgreen][B]Hello, I'm "DriftGirl"...And I approve this message:biggthumpup:[/B][/COLOR][/CENTER]

Breaking news for the McCain camp!  He's not only tied directly to the Keating 5 which sadly is a total mirror, only not quite as bad as the current financial banking debacle, he's also apparently part of the Iran-Contra scandal of the 80's! Yes, he directly supported former Nazi's and funded IRAN, one of our current arch enemies!  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, it cant' get better than this, can it?

[quote]GOP presidential nominee John McCain has past connections to a private group that supplied aid to guerrillas seeking to overthrow the leftist government of Nicaragua in the Iran-Contra affair McCain's ties are facing renewed scrutiny after his campaign criticized Barack Obama for his link to a former radical who engaged in violent acts 40 years ago.
 The U.S. Council for World Freedom was part of an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America.[/quote]

Meanwhile, what they have on Obama is he "pals around with terrorists" because he served on a board with someone who had a questionable past when Obama was EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!  Lol, he served on a board with the man, who is a professor at U of Ill, and he (Obama) denounced his past which occured when Obama was in Elementary school.  In that logic, I "pal around" with this bitch KARI because I served on the board of the homeowners association!  I fuckin HATE that bitch, but according to Palin, we're "pals".  hahahahahahaha  NICE!

^LOL, you make a good ass point man.  I have noooo idea why they're trying to blow this up like this, it's so trivial and insignificant that I think it'll backfire and make their campaign look worst.

And i bet you guys didnt know he was cleared of all charges on the Keating 5 thing..

He was guilty, Mccain copped a plea deal to return the money he took from Keating and associates. As well as paying for flights on Mr'K's private Jet and the vacations they took together. 
 
In return, they didnt pursue the investigation any further and said he used "Poor judgment" :pat:
 
[B]None[/B] of the five senators was punished by the Senate BTW.

For those that dont know: Keating was a real estate speculator and a savings & loan institution [I]owner[/I] who ripped off investors for Millions (in unsecured money) with the help of his buddies that he filtered money to....McCain and 4 others. 
 
McCain then ratted dude out to save his own ass....the same guy he was kickin with on Vacations n stuff.
 
 
while on his private Airplane. =)
 
The [B]keating 5[/B] were made up of 4 democrats and 1 (McCain) Republican....so I guess he can work with both sides:giggity:
 
The sad part is that McCain hasnt learned from this and has the Architect of the current mortgage/housing failure as his [B][U]current[/U][/B] [B]CHIEF FINANCIAL ADVISOR :pat:[/B]

i didnt know BillClinton was his chief financial advisor? news to me..  DriftGrl you seem to have issues with McCain having money.. is it an issue that Barack's wife makes 200k+ a year from a not for profit hospital that rips off non insured people seeking healthcare? or does it bother you that they live in a 1.5 million dollar house?  not sure how these people can represent the "working class" or does it bother you that Barack has recieved millions of dollars for campaign funding from out of country supporters? Dont tell me they cant recieve out of country donations.. cuz they can, they just cant recieve over a $200 donation.. well baracks recieved over $200 million from these types of donations..

I have no problem voting Republican, if I choose to self serve. I have no problem with His wealth or Palins....Considering [COLOR=sandybrown]***[/COLOR][B][COLOR=sandybrown][COLOR=sandybrown]EDITED[/COLOR]***...TRUE, BUT EDITED FROM PUBLIC VIEW :smiley-rofl:[/COLOR][/B]
 
 
My beef is the way he conducts himself in regards to said wealth...And those who buy into it, when they have trouble buying gas everyday. 
 
[B]Bill Clinton[/B] is [U]not[/U] the reason why the housing situation is like this. I promise you that is simply bad info somone has passed along.
 
Its common knowlege that Bush sent us into debt in record time shortly after taking office...but many dont really know why. 
 
Heres the reason again: [URL]http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showpost.php?p=193156&postcount=75[/URL]
 
Please read it and debate it, if you'd like to.
 
Im not just getting on McCain. Maybe Obama just hasnt been in public office long enough to rack up the drama that Mac has? Seriously, I dunno...
 
Post up details on Obama's questionable fund raising. This is the first ive heard and would like to look deeper into it as well. 
 
There were many things that I liked about McCain...but they are overshadowed by the things I dont like. 
 
I just see [I]more of the same[/I], no matter how much they try to distance themselves from Bush. :(

UnDecided on Who to Vote For ???
 
Here is a Way To Help you With Your Decision.
 
Please Click the Link Below
 
[URL]http://abcnews.go.com/politics/MatchoMatic/fullpage?id=5542139[/URL]

Like as if anything in the main stream media will ever be unfavorable to a democrat? hahahahahaha sure next you'll say that they are also unbiased in there portayals of both candidates ClutchOne... :smiley-rofl:

VOTE FOR BILL COSBY!!

Who doesn't want puddin' pops for all.

This election is a joke, and a scary one at that. You've got W. #2 on one end, who's 72, and may kick the bucket anytime, and how many senile 72 year olds can run a country? With a VP that says Nukular, and Obama, who's selling people dreams, which most likely will not be fulfilled, having a Racist VP, who really really really really wants to be the President....

Who knows what will happen in the next 4 years. 

All I know is that we'll probably not have a 2 term president with either of these candidates.

Caoboy I agree for once and I also believe this will be a one term presidency either way.... we are going to see some scary things happening within the next 4 1/2 years... stay tuned and if you believe in something pray to it because things are going to get unbelievable... trust on that one. :runcoold:

I think everything is going to be fine in the end.  I also found it interesting to take that little "quiz" above..and yes, it did have me pick Obama, but not by a landslide.  I had varying views on several topics..but the topic was either all Obama or all McCain..not split.  So you can say I'm biased...and you'd be VERY wrong.  I said it before and I'll say it again: I'm choosing the LESSER of two evils.  I would have much rather had Hillary as President if you want my honest opinion.  I really hope that in 4 years she's back on the ticket...

[B]My parting words on the subject......[/B]
 
"Get in where you [B]fit[/B] in....not where you [B]WANT[/B] to be"
 
Please check the facts and support the party that will have you and your families best interest @ heart.
 
Jus remember:[B] Politicians[/B] lie, [B]men [/B]lie,[B]women [/B]lie...[B]numbers[/B] dont.:rules:
 
 
 
"[I]Aint no future in frontin[/I]" 
                    ~MC Breed :biggthumpup:

[quote=elpresidente;194401]I think everything is going to be fine in the end. I also found it interesting to take that little "quiz" above..and yes, it did have me pick Obama, but not by a landslide. I had varying views on several topics..but the topic was either all Obama or all McCain..not split. So you can say I'm biased...and you'd be VERY wrong. I said it before and I'll say it again: I'm choosing the LESSER of two evils. I would have much rather had Hillary as President if you want my honest opinion. I really hope that in 4 years she's back on the ticket...[/quote]
 
 
I hope not... I can't imagine 4 more years of the Clinton Chronicles... look it up and understand why the Clinton Administration was corrupt to no end.

Well, I bet it's just one book..and not enough to fill a library *cough* Bush *cough*

Seriously..what Politicians haven't had some level of corruption?  There's so many factors to it all as well that NONE of us would ever understand unless we were involved in it ourselves. So as far as that's concerned?  Give it a rest Robert...seriously.  I think you've pushed your issues far enough those images were not funny to me).  To me the President is a figure head..and that's about the extent of it.  We need someone who won't talk like a 1st grader, and who isn't in bed with the wrong people (as in lately..not when they were 8 yrs old).  The President doesn't make all the decisions anyhow...they merely make suggestions.

[quote=elpresidente;194415]and who isn't in bed with the wrong people (as in lately..not when they were 8 yrs old).[/quote]
 
 
ok so then would the last 20 years count? *cough* [SIZE=2]Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko, Nadhami Auchi, [URL="http://www.barackobamaassociates.info/jeremiah_wright.htm"][SIZE=2][COLOR=white]Farrakhan[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL], Allison Davis, James Meeks, Rashid Khalid [/SIZE]*cough* I had to clear my throat as well for 20 years worth... but yeah i'll drop it I guess, since either way they are both going to over spend on an economy plan according to the latest independent source numbers where they are both going to funnel hundreds of billions into fixing an economy ruined by greed on BOTH SIDES of the party lines... :shrug:

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;194368]I have no problem voting Republican, if I choose to self serve. I have no problem with His wealth or Palins....Considering [COLOR=sandybrown]***[/COLOR][B][COLOR=sandybrown][COLOR=sandybrown]EDITED[/COLOR]***...TRUE, BUT EDITED FROM PUBLIC VIEW :smiley-rofl:[/COLOR][/B]
 
 
My beef is the way he conducts himself in regards to said wealth...And those who buy into it, when they have trouble buying gas everyday. 
 
[B]Bill Clinton[/B] is [U]not[/U] the reason why the housing situation is like this. I promise you that is simply bad info somone has passed along.
 
Its common knowlege that Bush sent us into debt in record time shortly after taking office...but many dont really know why. 
 
Heres the reason again: [URL]http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showpost.php?p=193156&postcount=75[/URL]
 
Please read it and debate it, if you'd like to.
 
Im not just getting on McCain. Maybe Obama just hasnt been in public office long enough to rack up the drama that Mac has? Seriously, I dunno...
 
Post up details on Obama's questionable fund raising. This is the first ive heard and would like to look deeper into it as well. 
 
There were many things that I liked about McCain...but they are overshadowed by the things I dont like. 
 
I just see [I]more of the same[/I], no matter how much they try to distance themselves from Bush. :([/QUOTE]


you cant promise anything.. these are your views.. this is just what you think... Theres plenty of dirt on Obama, you just like others dont want to believe there is anything wrong with this guy,  just way too hung up on this "change" he keeps preaching.... I really wish I coulda read what was editted.. too late ;)

If all the bad stuff overshadowed things that you like McCain... C'mon, you must only be doin your dirt diggin on McCain.. you better get to work on obama...


On another note...Im pretty sure there is ppl here making 250k, or atleast they spend like they do, and im sure there is people here that own small businesses here that make more then 250k , that will be directly affected by Obama's tax plans... "change we cant afford"

Dude how can anyone see McCain being a 2 term pres? Dude is probably gonna be dead before he's outta his first term, if not incapable of being a president. Who knows what havoc can be had in that time. His VP is not a very good speaker, as well as not really that great of a person. She's a helluva lot younger, but that's about it. She's the gov. of the biggest state in the country, yeah, with about the population of Rhode Island.  That's not spiting, that's real talk.
 
Obama's in a different boat, only going the same direction. He's got a greedy VP, he's relatively unkown as far as how many people think they know everything about him, and he's talking about change like it's going to happen. EVERY president talks about how the one before him, along with his party, has messed up the country, or how he'll do so much different than the previous president, for the better. 
 
Only thing that is fact, is the economy sucks, we're in a huge rutt to try to get out of, a war we don't need to be in, and  the whole world is hinged on us not falling apart and taking us with them.
 
In the words of the Joker, "This country needs an Enema!"
 
I don't think either of these president's will do what is needed. They may start it, or they'll drag it down further, and someone else will step up to finish the job.
 
(can we set up a poll to see who's voting for who? McCain, Obama, others)

[quote=phrosttz0;194473]you cant promise anything.. these are your views.. this is just what you think... Theres plenty of dirt on Obama, you just like others dont want to believe there is anything wrong with this guy, just way too hung up on this "change" he keeps preaching.... I really wish I coulda read what was editted.. too late ;)
 
If all the bad stuff overshadowed things that you like McCain... C'mon, you must only be doin your dirt diggin on McCain.. you better get to work on obama...
 
 
On another note...Im pretty sure there is ppl here making 250k, or atleast they spend like they do, and im sure there is people here that own small businesses here that make more then 250k , that will be directly affected by Osama's tax plans... "change we cant afford"[/quote]
 
These are not my views..they are factual events that have taken place.
 
[COLOR=orange][B]***EDITED AGAIN*** If you missed it, PM me and I'll send u what was removed. Its not sumthing for everyone to read...was just making my point. [/B][/COLOR]
 
Ive been on both sides and I Have no problem with people who have money...that was never the issue. Like ive mentioned, DriftGirl will be [I]OK[/I]...no matter who wins. 
 
I got 99problems....
 
Im not doing any Dirt digging on McCain...I know the history of our economic down turn (in regards to realestate) because [B]its what I do[/B]. You probably couldve caught that in my statement about Trusts. 
 
You made a comment (about his fund raising) and i honestly found it interesting and wanted to know more. If theres shady business going on, people should have the facts about Obama. Please enlighten us....
 
It seems now that this has taken a personal turn for the worse, when we are all supposed to just be having a friendly, factual debate/commentary. :sad: 
 
Im out.:shrug:

I saw the debate and tell me why most the time they were trashing eachother?Funny though how they had to tell them about the lights and they continued to go over a minute.

I would rather choose Obama for sure after seeing this.McCain only cares about war once again.As he said,"I won't bring the soilders back with defeat but bring them back with victory."Correct me if im wrong.But i dont think anybody or most people care about the war anymore i think they just want all the soldiers back especailly when they say they'll bring 3000troops back but send 3000fresh ones there.Funny you cant drink until your 21 and you cant smoke until your 18 but you can die in war for a country at age 18?Doesn't make sense.Well my opinion and i watched the debate.I thought it was comedy on the trashing back and fourth.:smiley-rofl:

hey no taking ish personal on a topic I love people hahahaha!!! :signdammit:
 
One thing I will say about tonight's debate is that they both handled themselves quite well but I HATE, I SERIOUSLY HATE IT when people can't show some common courtesy while others are speaking, and McCain was so rude while Obama was responding to one of his answers, I don't know just irritates me. On what you stated Caoboy, yeah neither of these two will be a 2 term presidency our economy will kill that wish by them. we will be ironing this out by the fifth year so hold on for the ride...

“When you choose the lesser of two evils, always remember that it is still an evil.”
 Max Lerner (American Politician and Columnist, 1902-1992)

Vote Chuck Baldwin for upholding the constitution, small government, more privacy, less gov spending, and getting our freedoms back!

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;193156]Lemme try to bring this full circle since were gettin a bit deep here at VSC :biggthumpup:
 
That article is misleading and the root of the housing crisis are bad lenders and the laws that were created to fleece America...not institutions that are required to back said loans. Lending Institutions came with all sorts of creative financing to take advantage of a good system that was designed to help lower income people afford the American Dream. 
 
[B]Lets get into this:[/B] Phil Gramm who is [B]now[/B] John McCains Chief financial advisor[COLOR=red]*[/COLOR] and former Texas Senator. came up with the [I]Commodity Futures Modernization Act[/I] and passed it thru a bill, Just A few days after Bush was sworn into office. 
 
The Act was designed to keep regulators from controlling new financial tools described as credit "swaps." These are instruments like sub-prime mortgages bundled up and sold as securities. Under this new Bill neither the SEC nor the Commodities Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) were able to examine financial institutions like hedge funds or investment banks to guarantee they had the assets necessary to cover losses they were guaranteeing...slick, for sum....those being the rich who were about to get richer.
 
Banks were in a rush to spend the windfall of money that was left by the Clinton era and padded their portfolio with loans...many were bad loans but it looks good to share holders and the market speculators. So the financial institutions were doin it [I]Yahoo style[/I]. remember when their stock was trading for 100's, yet the company really wasnt worth shit? yeah, your local banks were doing the same thing.
 
Yahoo eventually turned a profit and the stock adjusted to much lower levels. The lending institutions are just sayin...fuck it. You (tax payers) pay for our bad investing and ignoring the monster we created. 
 
They took mortgages instruments from anyone who asked...the CEOs (Like our local WaMu bank) walked with MILLIONS with deals that were put in place while they were inflating shit with bad loans. 
 
 
Also, I do think half of this falls on the borrowers. If youve lived in an apartment all your life, never held the title to a decent car, didnt have 20% down...what makes you think you can buy a 500k home? [B]And then go in and refi their homes because the housing market is peaking?!? [/B]uh, your primary home isnt a piggy bank.:pat: are u freakin kidding me? Now they dont want to own up to the responsibility of a double mortgaged home? 
 
 
 
** if you cant go full Doc on the loan then you shouldnt have your ass in said home anyway**
 
yeah, creative financing got them in the door...but they had no 'game plan' after the teaser rates expire. The smart ones did and are lovin life for the opportunity. the dumb ones did nothing to improve themselves after being handed the keys. 
 
I dont feel sorry for [B]those[/B] types that are losing their homes. they didnt put in the work to EARN a home like that in the first place. 
 
so the blame is 70 - 30 in my eyes. People got taken advantage of...butwere guilty of being ignorant...which is never an excuse.
 
[I]exceptions:[/I]
There are good, hardworking families that have fallen on hard times and I think its a shame that they provide corporate welfare for the rich but cant help people who are trying to heat their homes with the rising price of fuel. 
 
[COLOR=#ff0000]*[/COLOR]Thats the difference between the mac and obama's policy plans. You can have 4-8 more years of the same or we can try another direction. 
 
Oh, If I see one more [I]Republican[/I] complaining about "I cant afford Mods or Gas" im gonna jump thru my monitor and choke the crap outta of them. :smiley-rofl:
 
And here I thought Republicans were against Big Government :smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl:
 
soooo, Im keepin it real as usual, not forgetting where I came from and leaving the door open for the people behind me by voting [B]Obama[/B] :biggthumpup:
 
/Rant =)[/QUOTE]


thank goodness someone knows what happened. My head was gonna explode from reading some of the responses :smiley-rofl:

Hows your hustlin nowadays?? Still on point? LOL!

Obama 08 all day baby, 3 days a week...

the other 4, we grind.


EDIT:

Finished this last page..

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;194407][B]My parting words on the subject......[/B]
 
"Get in where you [B]fit[/B] in....not where you [B]WANT[/B] to be"
 
Please check the facts and support the party that will have you and your families best interest @ heart.
 
Jus remember:[B] Politicians[/B] lie, [B]men [/B]lie,[B]women [/B]lie...[B]numbers[/B] dont.:rules:
 
 
 
"[I]Aint no future in frontin[/I]" 
                    ~MC Breed :biggthumpup:[/QUOTE]


Yo you've been on point from top to bottom...No ass kissing...

People blow my mind thinking they're rolling big making like 60 a year...you aint stacking, you're middle class just like the 40 stacker. and if you live in or around San Francisco, you're barely scraping...It's real dumb to vote for someone because you THINK you're making bread when you're really not...

Not speaking about anyone here, but i've had my fair share of idiots run across me.

[SIZE=7]B[/SIZE][SIZE=6]A[/SIZE][SIZE=5]R[/SIZE][SIZE=4]A[/SIZE][SIZE=3]C[/SIZE][SIZE=2]K[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]O[/SIZE][SIZE=3]B[/SIZE][SIZE=4]A[SIZE=5]M[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=6]A[/SIZE][SIZE=7]![/SIZE]

[img]http://www.s2ki.com/gallery/image/medium/566327.gif[/img]

[IMG]http://www.nypost.com/delonas/2008/10/10092008.jpg[/IMG]

TROY, N.Y. (AP) — [B]Who is running for president?[/B] In an upstate New York county, hundreds of voters have been sent absentee ballots in which they could vote for[B] "Barack Osama."[/B]
 
The absentee ballots sent to voters in Rensselaer County identified the two presidential candidates as "Barack Osama" and "John McCain." In the United States, the best-known individual named Osama is Osama bin Laden, leader of the al Qaida terrorist group behind the 2001 attacks that destroyed the World Trade Center in New York City.
 
The typographical terror error was first reported by the Times Union of Albany.
The elections office faxed a statement in which the two commissioners, Democrat Edward McDonough and Republican Larry Bugbee, said they regret the error but never acknowledge what the error was.
 
"It's human error, it's very unfortunate, it's an embarrassment to our office, obviously," McDonough said in a later phone interview. "We wish we could turn back the clock, but we can't."
 
When they discovered the mistake, officials shredded the remaining "Osama" ballots and mailed correct versions to the roughly 300 people who had already received them. McDonough said the "Osama" mistake was made in only one of the 13 ballot versions mailed throughout the county, located east of the state capital of Albany.
 
Voters who received both versions will be allowed to send in either one and have it counted, McDonough said.
 
Obama spokesman Blake Zeff said the campaign is "glad officials are working to correct this error and we [B]assume[/B] it won't happen again."
 
 
----------
 
[B][COLOR=darkgreen]Truly amazing :pat:[/COLOR][/B]

[IMG]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/10/12/opinion/12rich_large.jpg[/IMG]
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E[/URL] :pat:
 
"...Until now. At McCain-Palin rallies, the raucous and insistent cries of “Treason!” and “Terrorist!” and “Kill him!” and “Off with his head!” as well as the uninhibited slinging of racial epithets, are actually something new in a campaign that has seen almost every conceivable twist. They are alarms. Doing nothing is not an option..."
 
By FRANK RICH @ NY TIMES
[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/opinion/12rich.html[/URL]

[quote=DriftGirl;194368]
 
[B]Bill Clinton[/B] is [U]not[/U] the reason why the housing situation is like this. I promise you that is simply bad info somone has passed along.
 [/quote]


I didn't post that HE is the reason, but YES it is a FACT that it was his policy and the POLICY of the Democratic party at the time,  that pressured the change in lending standards and procedures that then got abused and IS the cause.  So to simply dismiss it as not His fault at all is completely irresponsible and scary.

[quote=DriftGirl;194214]Obama really screwed up when he didn't select Clinton as a running mate. This Race would've been [B]OVER[/B] before it even started had she been on the ticket. IMHO..[/quote]
You mean his life would have.  Someone would have shot him before he even finished the process of being sworn in.  SAD....but true.

And for the record, I think both Parties choice for VP are piss poor.  Palin....come on really could you realy feel safe with her as Pres? and Biden......yeah there's real change.  He is as "stuffy white guy" as any politician gets.  We can only prey that we get some better alternatives next term...

[quote=burgy;195919]I didn't post that HE is the reason, but YES it is a FACT that it was his policy and the POLICY of the Democratic party at the time, that pressured the change in lending standards and procedures that then got abused and IS the cause. So to simply dismiss it as not His fault at all is completely irresponsible and scary.[/quote]
 
His (Clintons) policy was thrown out the window [U]a few days after Bush was sworn in[/U]. The VERY same guy that killed the gov oversight of that industry, made it impossible to have checks and balances to prevent our current economic failure. 
 
Clinton is guilty of leaving to much money in the piggy bank...and then handing that piggy bank over to self-serving people. 
 
That would be like Rolls Royce handing over the keys to their top of the line car to a kid who couldnt afford to put gas in it. A smart kid (knowing he'd get such a car) would have a plan in place to take care of this 'gift'. Was it irresponsible for Rolls Royce to give this car to an idiot? 
 
well, that idiot happend to inherit the car...Rolls had no say in the matter. 
 
Then that stupid kid had a ricer buddy who completely changed what the roolls royce was all about. 
And again, I have to mention that this Ricer is [B]now[/B] McCains chief financial advisor.:pat:
 
Yes, Said policy allowed people (including myself) to profit from a bill that they all knew would brings this country down [U]sum[/U] in the near future. No one predicted it would be this bad...but we all knew that there was going to be a down turn.
 
we all typically hear the horror stories because there are so many and far outweigh the good ones...that doesnt mean that there arent stories of Americans that were able to take advantage ( with good financial planning ) to make a better life for themselves and their families. 
 
The trick was to make enough money to survive the bad times ahead....People rolled the dice: Some lost and some won...some just did enough to be comfortable thru these rough times and establish themselves for the next 'up side'. 
 
I will also not forgive the responsibilty of those who went out and bought 500k homes on a 50k salary. You signed the papers....deal with it. 
 
We cant put [B]all[/B] the fault on Policy...no matter who's it is. People are responsible for their own actions as well. 
 
 
[B]many [/B]people will become very wealthy at the tail end of all this

[quote=burgy;195922]You mean his life would have. Someone would have shot him before he even finished the process of being sworn in. SAD....but true.
 
And for the record, I think both Parties choice for VP are piss poor. Palin....come on really could you realy feel safe with her as Pres? and Biden......yeah there's real change. He is as "stuffy white guy" as any politician gets. We can only prey that we get some better alternatives next term...[/quote]
 
Yeah, I fear for his safety as well.... Friends, family and neighbors will show their true colors in regards to race with this upcoming election. 
 
- Is "Old white American" ready for a minority President? 
- Will good people (of all colors) allow ignorant, racists to destroy this country again? 
- Will the American people make a stand against these racist, who will trigger another civil war within our boarders, if "something" were to happen to President Obama? 
 
 
Palin is a joke....Im waiting for this story to air on MTV's "Punked". The list of whats wrong with her is so long that it gives me a headache to thnk that someone would even consider her for a position this high. You have to question McCains judgment......I cant even give props as a female:sad:
 
Biden, I have no idea why Obama would select him. From a strategy stand point he's going after an undecided McCain demographic...but damn, he's said sum pretty damaging things about Obama and the whole Democratic party. 
 
Wouldve been the biggest land slide victory in the history of our nation had H.C. been on the Democratic ticket with Obama...he F'ed up and turned this into a 12rd fight ,When he couldve knocked Mccain out in the first round.
 
i wouldve flown in to see a debate with Palin and H.Clinton...wouldve been an epic, verbal beatdown :smiley-rofl:

^ Agreed...The best ticket would have been HC w/ Obama as VP.....but such is life.  I still don't know who I am going to vote for yet.   DAMMIT I wish Romney was the candidate.....

[IMG]http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/ramirez/2008/10/10082008.jpg[/IMG]

Jokes aside....people are showing how deep rooted the hate is in America. Im disturbed by the way the Republicans are running the campaign for McCain. I dont think he is a hate monger...but their actions are confusing me. The republican party is a wounded animal and have to resort to these types of attacks [B]because they cant debate the issues.[/B] 
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBmO6YAszGU[/URL] [B]<---Please watch[/B] :shrug:

How are other countries suppost to respect us if we have this guy farting up a storm?
 
[youtube]BbbCN5Q16XE[/youtube]

[QUOTE=burgy;195934]^ Agreed...The best ticket would have been HC w/ Obama as VP.....but such is life.  I still don't know who I am going to vote for yet.   DAMMIT I wish Romney was the candidate.....[/QUOTE]

I agree on the Romney comment.

Personally, I do not believe in either candidate.  McCain is the lesser of two evils and I will do what it takes to keep Obama out of office.  America does not need to have a cradle to the grave president in office.  What America does need is a leader that will preserve what America stands for.  We do not need a president that will give government more control over our freedoms, or take money from the rich...WHO EMPLOY THE MIDDLE CLASS.

If we need to read the facts, then facts will point to Obama as the most unqualified candidate that we have ever seen.  When I say unqualified, I do not mean experience.  He is not a candidate that will lead this nation forward and preserve our elite position in this world.

For shit's and giggles take a look at this... community organization at it's finest...
[url]http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2008/09/07/barack-obamas-1-1-million-botanical-garden-er-100-000-gazebo[/url]

[img]http://www.bizzyblog.com/wp-images/obamazebo.jpg[/img]

Thank you.
Chris

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;196021]Jokes aside....people are showing how deep rooted the hate is in America. Im disturbed by the way the Republicans are running the campaign for McCain. I dont think he is a hate monger...but their actions are confusing me. The republican party is a wounded animal and have to resort to these types of attacks [B]because they cant debate the issues.[/B] 
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBmO6YAszGU[/URL] [B]<---Please watch[/B] :shrug:[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that white americans are racist?  It's sad to say, but everyone is racist.  Everyone says that white people are racist and will not vote for Obama on color.  Has anyone ever thought that his beliefs just don't jive with their beliefs.

If Barack loses then America is racist...that's what many dems are saying.  However, why can't democrats see that their ideas are what create the riff between parties.  Demos will never win on ideas,  Americans are still smart and they can and will see beyond the "man behind the curtain".

Racism will always be a fact of life in America.  We are too much of a diverse society to have it any other way.

Would you like to know who has one of the most racist societies in the world...well let's not get into that here.  Either way, you will never see the end of racism.  In the USA, we have tolerance.  I'm just putting it out there...no one in this forum can tell me that they have not had racist thoughts.

Chris

[quote=chrisngo;196073]Are you saying that white americans are racist? It's sad to say, but everyone is racist. Everyone says that white people are racist and will not vote for Obama on color. Has anyone ever thought that his beliefs just don't jive with their beliefs.
 
If Barack loses then America is racist...that's what many dems are saying. However, why can't democrats see that their ideas are what create the riff between parties. Demos will never win on ideas, Americans are still smart and they can and will see beyond the "man behind the curtain".
 
Racism will always be a fact of life in America. We are too much of a diverse society to have it any other way.
 
Would you like to know who has one of the most racist societies in the world...well let's not get into that here. Either way, you will never see the end of racism. In the USA, we have tolerance. I'm just putting it out there...no one in this forum can tell me that they have not had racist thoughts.
 
Chris[/quote]
 
A blanket statement like "All White Americans are racist" is a VERY ignorant statement. I couldnt imagine anyone that would say sumthing as stupid as that. I certainly hope you're not making a statement by asking me that question under the guise of clarity? 
 
I dont mince words...people should know that about me by now. If thats the way I felt, I would say it without regret. Thats not how I feel. The reference to "Old America" are those that will not vote for someone due to their race.
 
They were actually questions that I listed for people to answer. Asking if those few would make a difference in the election. Please re-read what ive posted so theres no misunderstandings. On the real,I seriously dont play that with people.    
 
 
 
 
Republicans are reaching for anything to give their party a bit of life in this election. The race card is the only thing they have left. Their only chance is to reach for the deep rooted fears that reside in the minds of sum people...typically the old and uneducated. 
 
Now all of a sudden its: "If you dont agree with Obama you're racist"? anyone who buys into that or lets people convince them of that, prolly shouldnt be voting anyway. :smiley-rofl:
 
That makes as much sense as the republicans who say: "If you dont support the War, you dont support the troops" :pat:   
 
Nice way to side step the issues =)
 
I commend McCain for taking control of his crowd the other day and trying to educate sum of the ignorant people at the rally. Im sure both sides have their fair share of stupid people saying all kinds of 'stuff' at the ralllys. But when dealing with the issue of Race, America has a very one sided history. There is no disputing that.....
 
[B]With all that said, does anyone care to talk about the issue resolutions each candidate brings to the table?[/B] 
 
I hear some people talking but sum havent said WHY they feel a certain way or WHY they are voting for one or the other. 
 
Obamas policy will cost me (on a personal level) more money. However, I understand its for the best to help my fellow Americans.  Ive found in life that there are always upsides to everything.  
 
My thoughts are: Trickle down economics only work with a monarchy...and the lil worker bee/sheep that support their kings and queens at the expense of their own lives. =)
 
Yup, I have issues with both parties, I'm VERY interested to read what policies people have issues with.

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;196118]A blanket statement like "All White Americans are racist" is a VERY ignorant statement. I couldnt imagine anyone that would say sumthing as stupid as that. I certainly hope you're not making a statement by asking me that question under the guise of clarity? 
 
I dont mince words...people should know that about me by now. If thats the way I felt, I would say it without regret. Thats not how I feel. The reference to "Old America" are those that will not vote for someone due to their race.
 
They were actually questions that I listed for people to answer. Asking if those few would make a difference in the election. Please re-read what ive posted so theres no misunderstandings. On the real,I seriously dont play that with people.    
 
 
 
 
Republicans are reaching for anything to give their party a bit of life in this election. The race card is the only thing they have left. Their only chance is to reach for the deep rooted fears that reside in the minds of sum people...typically the old and uneducated. 
 
Now all of a sudden its: "If you dont agree with Obama you're racist"? anyone who buys into that or lets people convince them of that, prolly shouldnt be voting anyway. :smiley-rofl:
 
That makes as much sense as the republicans who say: "If you dont support the War, you dont support the troops" :pat:   
 
Nice way to side step the issues =)
 
I commend McCain for taking control of his crowd the other day and trying to educate sum of the ignorant people at the rally. Im sure both sides have their fair share of stupid people saying all kinds of 'stuff' at the ralllys. But when dealing with the issue of Race, America has a very one sided history. There is no disputing that.....
 
[B]With all that said, does anyone care to talk about the issue resolutions each candidate brings to the table?[/B] 
 
I hear some people talking but sum havent said WHY they feel a certain way or WHY they are voting for one or the other. 
 
Obamas policy will cost me (on a personal level) more money. However, I understand its for the best to help my fellow Americans.  Ive found in life that there are always upsides to everything.  
 
My thoughts are: Trickle down economics only work with a monarchy...and the lil worker bee/sheep that support their kings and queens at the expense of their own lives. =)
 
Yup, I have issues with both parties, I'm VERY interested to read what policies people have issues with.[/QUOTE]

I am in no way saying you made a blanket statement.

Well said comment and excellent segway into talking about the issues of both sides.

Let's begin with economy since that is such a hot topic.  McCain wants to give tax breaks and keep the current Bush tax cuts and not letting them expire.  Obama wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and tax break the middle class.  He also disagrees with the Bush tax cuts.

My feelings... if we tax the rich we will begin to drive them out and they will not want to continue to with their businesses or they will not be able to afford payroll causing them to lay off employees.  I see a trickle effect and it is not a positive one.  Rich people hire people and give people jobs...you don't see poor people giving people jobs.  So why penalize a person that is supporting families (through monetary compensation for skills rendered) and giving people a chance to improve their economic status in America.  We need to give incentives to those employers who are doing right.  I disagreed with the "rescue" plan and many other conservatives did as well.  McCain and Obama supported it.  We should not reward failure.

Comments...?

Chris

im voting for mccain homie!

[URL=http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=palinzf5.jpg][IMG]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8416/palinzf5.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

lol!!!!

[quote=chrisngo;196137]
 
My feelings... if we tax the rich we will begin to drive them out and they will not want to continue to with their businesses or they will not be able to afford payroll causing them to lay off employees. I see a trickle effect and it is not a positive one. Rich people hire people and give people jobs...you don't see poor people giving people jobs. So why penalize a person that is supporting families (through monetary compensation for skills rendered) and giving people a chance to improve their economic status in America. We need to give incentives to those employers who are doing right. I disagreed with the "rescue" plan and many other conservatives did as well. McCain and Obama supported it. We should not reward failure.
 
Comments...?
 
Chris[/quote]
 
This is what I've been saying too.  Not to mention that all these programs that Obama is supposed to start all take money and NO ONE has stated where that money is going to come from.  The people that Obama wants to tax aren't that big of a percentage that their tax money alone can fund these programs.  The sad thing is that McCain and Palin have been so poor in the debates that they haven't even been able to hold the Dems feet to the fire and get them to answer this question.  
 
God why did McCain have to pick Palin as a running mate.....:pat:

Haha..you guys really need to re-read some of the things you've posted.

As in all your posts.

I know what some of you were trying to convey,  but some of it could be taken the wrong way and I'm sure to some people it has.  Please be very careful how you word things and proof what you've typed before you hit that reply button.

Stick to the issues...and this topic will stay on track and open. Conduct yourselves as adults and we'll have no issues of our (VSC) own.

Thanks...

Oh and one more thing...look at the issues from the outside, without an opinion and see where you stand.  Do not make your opinions based on hearsay or propaganda (yes, there's more of it than you realize).

Well the Debates are Tonight.
 
Obama won the Last Two.
 
Tonight is McCains Chance to Stand on Stage and Call 
Obama a N*gger to Get Last Second Change in Votes.
 
I Really dont Think McCain can Do Anything Else to Win this Debate. :shrug:
 
Im Going to Watch It on CNN to see If McCain 
Backs Up All the Hate He has been Spreading Through Out the Week.
 
Obama is Up 13 Points in the Polls Its Going to Take Some
Extreme Scare Tatics from McCain in this Last Debate To Turn those Numbers Around. :rules:

He's a terrersisst!  He's an Arab!!!  LOL!!! When that old woman said that at the McCain rally into the mike, McCain had to take it away and just say "no, no, that's not true".  Those Republican tool-bags honestly believe that garbage.  He's a Muslim, Arab, Terrorist.  And he's BLACK!  Nooooooooooo.

What has America come to?  Seriously?

:shrug:
 
You Have to Take In Consideration of the Rebel American Population.
They Really have a Good Turn Out at McCain Rallys, We All Know
Thats Who John McCain is Getting Major Votes From...:deaf:
 
[IMG]http://i37.tinypic.com/2zzuwpu.jpg[/IMG]
 
[IMG]http://i37.tinypic.com/34imwyo.jpg[/IMG]
 
[IMG]http://i35.tinypic.com/303lc9e.jpg[/IMG]
 
Bush and McCain in a Hug ... Is There a Connection ???

If John McCain was to Get Sick In Office or Pass Away Palin would be President.
 
Click the Link Below to See What That Would Be Like... :pat:
 
[URL]http://palinaspresident.com/[/URL]

Ok I Just Watched the Last Debate on CNN.
 
John McCain Made the Mistake of Attacking Obama
Through Out the Debate.
 
Obama Made the Right Choice of Sticking to The
Topic of the Nations Fail-ing Economy.
 
In The End Obama Won the Last Debate by CNN Polls.
 
McCain is Losing Votes with Every Debate Lost and Attack Made.
 
:dance:

Woot!  It's seriously, seriously time for a change people.  And whiners who complain that "Democrats raise taxes!  They spend more money!" are RETARDED.  Get a fuckin accountant if you pay too much tax, start a DBA and you can write off 1/3 of all your expenses.  I essentially pay no tax, state or federal.  

And how is it that "Democrats are big spenders, big government" YET, REPUBLICANS are the ones who ALWAYS spend us into record deficits??????? Please, someone explain that one to me. Clinton left office with the largest budget SURPLUS in HISTORY.  Bush will leave office with the largest budget DEFICIT in HISTORY.

Pot, kettle, black?? Maybe? Just a little bit?  Seriously, I feel like Republicans in general, are a bunch of idiots who don't think, they just believe.

^ Ummmm you might want to look into Obama and McCain plans on federal budget the difference is small. They BOTH plan on increasing gov't spending. Both plans will raise the national deficit by at least 3.3Trillion by 2018 
 
Most of you will just get pissed and flame for this next comment, but if you step back you'll realize I am NOT endorsing her etc.
 
 
The one person out of the four running for office (pres and VP's) that actually gets the big problem of to much government wasteful spending is the LEAST qualified candidate of them all. She would scare the hell out of me as a presdient and on so many fronts, but the one thing she DOES get is that government is out of control with its spending and someone needs to come in and clean house. 
 
Again, I'm not supporting her as my choice, I just wish that behind all the BS talk that more of them would actually ACT on this notion rather than just pander to it....

[img]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d180/jdmfiero/2848911432_2b9bd7ecbb.jpg[/img]

^ Sorry, I won't chill knowing that a socialist may be president and if not the alternative is just as bad...

[URL]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/999596/[/URL]
Remember, this is alot of Osama's fanbase right here. At least Mccain isn't for killing babies and taking your guns away. Obama is just a smooth talking lawyer who know's what American's want to hear.

Socialist!!!!???  Seriously?  Like we're not already!  We bailed out mega business for having poor judgment, poor leadership and loosing their shareholders money, and we should have let them go out of business.  It was their fault, yet we bail them out.  Sounds like socialism to me.  YAY, we'll socialize big business', but NOT health-care :pat:

^ Agreed VERY much so.  But I am for no bail out and letting the market rectify itself.  Unfortunately that would mean that there would be lots of losers and only a few winners at best.  Most people aren't comfortable with that though.  But I agree, we have socialized too much already!

steal from the rich and give to the poor is a socialist ideology.  Oh wait that's Obamas' tax plan :pat:

Im curious...you guys dont have to say anything if you dont want to tho. 
 
lets get down to what really matters here: How many will actually be taxed [B]more[/B] under Obamas plan?

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;197480]Im curious...you guys dont have to say anything if you dont want to tho. 
 
lets get down to what really matters here: How many will actually be taxed [B]more[/B] under Obamas plan?[/QUOTE]

Not me.  My parents and grandparents will though.

If I make the office average.....ME.  After he has implemented all his new programs...more than any of us can guess.  The rich can't pay for all of what he has planned.
 
I'm not saying McCain will do any better on this front though.

^not if they know what they're doing and have good accounts.  Most of the very wealthy folks have corporations set up and run everything through the corporation, thus they can write off almost 100% and pay very little tax.  It's one of the "secrets of the rich" and it 100% works, and is used all the time. My aunt works for a big accounting firm in Century City, the majority of their clients are celebrities like Will Smith caliber, every one of them has  a "corporation" and they channel all their wealth through it.

SO I'm sick and tired of hearing rich folks complaining about "higher taxes".  They don't pay them anyhow unless they're rich and dumb.

On that note, I'm by no stretch of the imagination remotely wealthy, I'm middle class all the way. I have a home based business, a DBA, and I own a place, I have a great accountant who's not the cheapest, but he gets me every single penny back. I don't pay tax.

[QUOTE=F.L.S.;197499]^not if they know what they're doing and have good accounts.  Most of the very wealthy folks have corporations set up and run everything through the corporation, thus they can write off almost 100% and pay very little tax.  It's one of the "secrets of the rich" and it 100% works, and is used all the time. My aunt works for a big accounting firm in Century City, the majority of their clients are celebrities like Will Smith caliber, every one of them has  a "corporation" and they channel all their wealth through it.

SO I'm sick and tired of hearing rich folks complaining about "higher taxes".  They don't pay them anyhow unless they're rich and dumb.[/QUOTE]

It's a shame the honest, wealthy, hardworking Americans are being called dumb :pat:

If they're wealthy and don't know the loopholes which exist to enable them to skirt paying taxes, sorry, but they're dumb, and they must have lucked into wealth.

[quote=tbrack;197501]It's a shame the honest, wealthy, hardworking Americans are being called dumb :pat:[/quote]
WERD...

FLS has lead into the point I was going to make...uh,I may not have stated it the same way tho :smiley-rofl:
 
 
...you should know how to protect your money, if you  are in fact wealthy. Its a [B]no -brainer[/B]. There are SOOOO many options..seriously. 
 
get an accountant and he will tell u the same thing mine told me...dont sweat it. 
 
If this is the only beef...its no beef at all.

[quote=tbrack;197476]steal from the rich and give to the poor is a socialist ideology. Oh wait that's Obamas' tax plan :pat:[/quote]
 
 
, "If your revenue is above $250[K], then from $250[K] down, your taxes are going to stay the same. It is true that for $250[K] up, ..., you'd go from 36% to 39%, which is where it was under Bill Clinton"
 
 
"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance at success, too. And I think that when we spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
 
-Obama's Tax Plan
 
... and If you think McCain is Telling the Truth when he Says he is [B]Not[/B] going to Raise Any ones Taxes as this Nation Economy takes a Nose Dive...  well I have a Bridge to Sell.
 
Mc Cain Lied in the Debate, No One Believes he would keep Taxes the Same When he Endorsed the BailOut.
 
:rules:

[QUOTE=F.L.S.;197096]I feel like Republicans in general, are a bunch of idiots who don't think, they just believe.[/QUOTE]


thats funny i think the same about 85% of the obama supporters... :giggity:

[IMG]http://logo.cafepress.com/nocache/8/3327298.jpg[/IMG]

[quote=DriftGirl;197516]FLS has lead into the point I was going to make...uh,I may not have stated it the same way tho :smiley-rofl:
 
 
...you should know how to protect your money, if you  are in fact wealthy. Its a [B]no -brainer[/B]. There are SOOOO many options..seriously. 
 
get an accountant and he will tell u the same thing mine told me...dont sweat it. 
 [/quote]

Let me ask this then.  If the rich can avoid to pay taxes anyway....then who is ACTUALLY going to pay in the end.....Thats right the average Joe because like I've said before the taxes of the rich cannot fund all those new programs......

[quote=burgy;197604]Let me ask this then. If the rich can avoid to pay taxes anyway....then who is ACTUALLY going to pay in the end.....Thats right the average Joe because like I've said before the taxes of the rich cannot fund all those new programs......[/quote]
 
Actually there will be more than enough. Please take the time to research the info 
 
Im not sure how well versed you are on finances/Taxes...but when one door closes, another is opened. Its been this way throughout history. Nothing has changed. 
 
Anyone with money knows what to do, no mater who wins. there are other issues with each candidate that are more pressing. 
 
Lets a look at McCains 5k medical tax break and see where the money is coming from.

I think politics suck period and all the arguing over it is pointless.  We have 2 candidates that shouldn't be in office...neither of them.  But I made an educated decision based on my morals and standards.  How did you make your decision??  I'm neither Democrat nor Republican, I have no label.  I'm just me.  Politics is similar to religion...in many ways.

[QUOTE=elpresidente;197623]I think politics suck period and all the arguing over it is pointless.  We have 2 candidates that shouldn't be in office...neither of them.  But I made an educated decision based on my morals and standards.  How did you make your decision??  I'm neither Democrat nor Republican, I have no label.  I'm just me.  [COLOR="Red"]Politics is similar to religion...in many ways[/COLOR].[/QUOTE]



very true..

:biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=unknown007;198133]Not topic related but why would i get bad rep for saying my opinions?!?!Now that's just stupid!!!:biggthumpup:

Okay back on track.Just know the person who got butt hurt would read it.[/QUOTE]Instigation is worse.  Whoever you're trying to get a rise out of might not even care, but it makes you look like an ass in the end either way.  You know the saying, "some things are better left unsaid"...yah, that one.  Might want to practice it so you don't come off as a pretentious a-hole.  Which isn't exactly cool.  So lets all be adults and keep that kind of crap off the forums.  We're above that crap...

[quote=elpresidente;198344]Instigation is worse.  Whoever you're trying to get a rise out of might not even care, but it makes you look like an ass in the end either way.  You know the saying, "some things are better left unsaid"...yah, that one.  Might want to practice it so you don't come off as a pretentious a-hole.  Which isn't exactly cool.  So lets all be adults and keep that kind of crap off the forums.  We're above that crap...[/quote]


Thanks for the comment.:biggthumpup:

[quote=Drift Girl;197480]Im curious...you guys dont have to say anything if you dont want to tho. 
 
lets get down to what really matters here: How many will actually be taxed [B]more[/B] under Obama's plan?[/quote]
 
Here is a Good Question.
 
How Many of us make under $250k a Year.
 
Just You Personally, Not you Cousins an Step Brothers, Just You.
 
Me Personally I Bring Home Around $125-150k a Year and
I Consider my self Middle Class.
Im an Owner Operator in the Trucking Industry.
 
Now If My Trucking Business was to the Point where I Owned 30 Trucks and Made Over 
$250k+ a Year in Profit. I would be Able to afford Health Care for my Workers and 
I would be able to Afford Higher Taxes Because Im Making Enough to Keep My Company Above Water.
You Have to Remember $250k is your Take Home in Profit.
 
I dont Know Any Plumbers that Bring Home as Much as I Do or More than $250k.
 
Its a Plan For the Middle Class Created By the Middle Class.
 
Its Not Socialism, Its Common Sense.
 
:thelaw: -Obama 08-
 
[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/b5fax2.jpg[/IMG]
 
[IMG]http://i37.tinypic.com/24wyfid.jpg[/IMG]

^^what he said^^
That was a good post.  Straight forward to the point, with no BS attached.

Reading is Fundamental :rules: 
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07kO9TtHYzQ[/URL]

that was funny!

Wassup 2008
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB-XyeD5kno[/URL]
 
Here is Another Video that Pretty Funny Yet Very REAL...
 
 :koolaidwall:
McCain /Palin

[quote=ClutchOne;199942]Wassup 2008
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB-XyeD5kno[/URL]
 
Here is Another Video that Pretty Funny Yet Very REAL...
 
 :koolaidwall:
McCain /Palin[/quote]

Here is another video.  I wouldn't say its funny but whatever :shrug:

[YOUTUBE]UxlwYP0HNdc[/YOUTUBE]

^^ cute :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=ClutchOne;198456]Here is a Good Question.
 
How Many of us make under $250k a Year.
 
Just You Personally, Not you Cousins an Step Brothers, Just You.
 
Me Personally I Bring Home Around $125-150k a Year and
I Consider my self Middle Class.
Im an Owner Operator in the Trucking Industry.
 
Now If My Trucking Business was to the Point where I Owned 30 Trucks and Made Over 
$250k+ a Year in Profit. I would be Able to afford Health Care for my Workers and 
I would be able to Afford Higher Taxes Because Im Making Enough to Keep My Company Above Water.
You Have to Remember $250k is your Take Home in Profit.
 
I dont Know Any Plumbers that Bring Home as Much as I Do or More than $250k.
 
Its a Plan For the Middle Class Created By the Middle Class.
 
Its Not Socialism, Its Common Sense.
 
:thelaw: -Obama 08-
 
[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/b5fax2.jpg[/IMG]
 
[IMG]http://i37.tinypic.com/24wyfid.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Here is a rebuttal to what you have said.  When your taxes do go up (if you reach the mark), what will happen when you realize that the extra tax equates to one or two employee salaries?  Are you going to buckle down and take the hit or are you going to let go of the employees?  Depending on who you ask...some may keep some may let go.  Corporations are at the mercy of the shareholders and they will lay off.  Small business may struggle to make that sort of decision and it can go either way.  Bottom line is...increased taxes on corps or successful small business will have negative consequences on employees.

EDIT: Clutchone...where do you see it's net profit?    Everything I see refers to gross income.  Reaching 250K in gross income is very easy for most businesses.  Once they figure in all expenses assuming they don't vary from year to year, on top of an increase in taxes, then I can definitely see some cutbacks being made.

Chris

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;197480]Im curious...you guys dont have to say anything if you dont want to tho. 
 
lets get down to what really matters here: How many will actually be taxed [B]more[/B] under Obamas plan?[/QUOTE]

Even if we don't and our employer's do...where will that leave us?  See my post above.  ^^^

Chris

Here is a Link where you can Compare McCains Tax Plan vs. Obama's
 
 
[URL]http://taxcut.barackobama.com/[/URL]
 
I hope this Link Help you Better Understand the Differance
and Helps to Answer Your Questions.

Your ALL Poor......just ask Biden??.  If you make less than $150,000/year you are NOT middle class????? so does that make us Poor???
 
Just proof that none of the candidates are in touch with the real world.  I'm still voting Mit Romney...:smiley-rofl:

[youtube]mP-0pedQeGw[/youtube]
 
according to "this guy" im hella broke :sad:
 
 
along with 90% of the people i know :smiley-rofl:

[QUOTE=ClutchOne;200540]Here is a Link where you can Compare McCains Tax Plan vs. Obama's
 
 
[URL]http://taxcut.barackobama.com/[/URL]
 
I hope this Link Help you Better Understand the Differance
and Helps to Answer Your Questions.[/QUOTE]

That's good and all.  But what about the consequences of implementing such a plan.  It's easy to talk about it but when it's time to enact how will that affect (poitively or negatively) the economy and business and people as a whole?

Higher taxes for corps means layoffs.  I would get $250.00 according to the calculator..they can keep that shit.  I'd rather have a job that consistently pays me rather than relying on a $250.00 handout.

edit: and why does obama and biden keep going lower and lower on the cut off for higher taxes.  First they say 250K, then 200K, now Biden is throwing out 150K.  Who is really going to pay the higher tax?  If it's couples at 150K...then i'm in trouble.

[youtube]b5p3OB6roAg[/youtube]


Chris

I seriously doubt that anyone here is in the [B]top 1%[/B] of America that will get hit with about a 5% (max) increase...thats NOTHING. If 3-5% causes anyone to lose their job...that job was never stable and you were lucky to have it this long. 
 
2% on 250K isnt too bad to help rebuild the country that afforded us an amazing lifestyle compared to the rest of the world....A life in the greatest country on the planet. 
 
If I rased my prices 2-3%, how many would really notice it? seriously?
 
Without pointing fingers, we're in a fucked up situation R'now...we have to pay to dig ourselves outta this hole. 
 
in the grand scheme of things...its for the best to restore confidence in America, help families heat their homes with rising fuel prices, put gas in their cars for work, money for mortgages and healthcare.... and reduce the deficit. 
 
 
 
Trickle down economics dont work in todays world. Look at the banks that are passing out bonuses from OUR bailout money...and they're hording the money. 
 
 
[COLOR=darkorange][B]TIME MAGAZINE[/B][/COLOR] 
 
[I][COLOR=darkorange]Uncle Sam has a new name on Wall Street — [B]Sugar Daddy[/B]. Bonuses for investment bankers and traders are projected to fall 40% this year. But analysts, compensation consultants and recruiters say the drop would be much more severe, perhaps as much as 70%, were it not for the [/COLOR][/I][URL="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1851140,00.html"][U][I][COLOR=darkorange]government's efforts to prop up financial firms[/COLOR][/I][/U][/URL][I][COLOR=darkorange]. "Year-end pay on Wall Street will be higher than it would have been had it not been for the government and mergers," says Alan Johnson, a leading compensation consultant. "You would expect it to be down much more." [/COLOR][/I]

[I][COLOR=darkorange]Johnson predicts that the average managing director at an investment bank, a title typically earned after eight years on the job, will receive a bonus of $625,000. That's down from nearly $1.1 million last year, but it is still [B]15 times the income of the average American household[/B]. Top bankers could receive as much as $1 million......[/COLOR][/I] 
 
 
[URL]http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1853846,00.html?imw=Y[/URL]
 
 
The greedy got richer, even when they fail...with OUR money this time :sad:
 
I cannot for the life of me understand why someone would care about sum suit that pulls in 15 times their annual salary...with a freakin BONUS! Thats not even including their yearly salary. :smiley-rofl: 
 
Im watching hillbillys on TV and youtube complaining about "he wants to redistribute the wealth..." 
Uhhhhh, dude, you have no teeth, 6 deep in a single wide and your wife is wearing flip flops in the winter....get a grip. :pat:
 
its not about where u WANT to be in life...its about where you are NOW.

McCain - Palin for the mother fuckin lose.  If they win, we're in deeper shit than we already are in.

So who voted already?

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;201005]I seriously doubt that anyone here is in the [B]top 1%[/B] of America that will get hit with about a 5% (max) increase...thats NOTHING. If 3-5% causes anyone to lose their job...that job was never stable and you were lucky to have it this long. 
 
2% on 250K isnt too bad to help rebuild the country that afforded us an amazing lifestyle compared to the rest of the world....A life in the greatest country on the planet. 
 
If I rased my prices 2-3%, how many would really notice it? seriously?
 
Without pointing fingers, we're in a fucked up situation R'now...we have to pay to dig ourselves outta this hole. 
 
in the grand scheme of things...its for the best to restore confidence in America, help families heat their homes with rising fuel prices, put gas in their cars for work, money for mortgages and healthcare.... and reduce the deficit. 
 
 
 
Trickle down economics dont work in todays world. Look at the banks that are passing out bonuses from OUR bailout money...and they're hording the money. 
 
 
[COLOR=darkorange][B]TIME MAGAZINE[/B][/COLOR] 
 
[I][COLOR=darkorange]Uncle Sam has a new name on Wall Street — [B]Sugar Daddy[/B]. Bonuses for investment bankers and traders are projected to fall 40% this year. But analysts, compensation consultants and recruiters say the drop would be much more severe, perhaps as much as 70%, were it not for the [/COLOR][/I][URL="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1851140,00.html"][U][I][COLOR=darkorange]government's efforts to prop up financial firms[/COLOR][/I][/U][/URL][I][COLOR=darkorange]. "Year-end pay on Wall Street will be higher than it would have been had it not been for the government and mergers," says Alan Johnson, a leading compensation consultant. "You would expect it to be down much more." [/COLOR][/I]

[I][COLOR=darkorange]Johnson predicts that the average managing director at an investment bank, a title typically earned after eight years on the job, will receive a bonus of $625,000. That's down from nearly $1.1 million last year, but it is still [B]15 times the income of the average American household[/B]. Top bankers could receive as much as $1 million......[/COLOR][/I] 
 
 
[URL]http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1853846,00.html?imw=Y[/URL]
 
 
The greedy got richer, even when they fail...with OUR money this time :sad:
 
I cannot for the life of me understand why someone would care about sum suit that pulls in 15 times their annual salary...with a freakin BONUS! Thats not even including their yearly salary. :smiley-rofl: 
 
Im watching hillbillys on TV and youtube complaining about "he wants to redistribute the wealth..." 
Uhhhhh, dude, you have no teeth, 6 deep in a single wide and your wife is wearing flip flops in the winter....get a grip. :pat:
 
its not about where u WANT to be in life...its about where you are NOW.[/QUOTE]

I agree with most of what you are saying.  I do not care for business people that make money through failure.  Bailout was a bad idea.

I don't agree with everything that McCain plans (bailout and amnesty being big ones), but I do believe he is the better candidate.

You say trickle down economics don't work?  So now we should try trickle up?  I can't understand how trickle up economics work.  When there is no money at the bottom of the trickle, how do you expect to become richer?  Money has to be made via (selling of goods, ideas and.or services) and then distributed DOWN to people that helped create those ideas, goods and/or services.  You can't have it the other way around.  Yes we can tax the rich all we want, but they'll get tired of it.  Then they'll stop providing their ideas, goods and/or services.

I dunno if that made sense.  This politics shit is crazy and i'm so over it.  If Obama does go into office, then we'll just have to wait and see what happens.  Hopefully we can resurrect this thread and see if things are better or worse.  I hope better for everyone's sake.  This will be our time capsule.

Chris

[QUOTE=F.L.S.;201015]McCain - Palin for the mother fuckin lose.  If they win, we're in deeper shit than we already are in.[/QUOTE]

Please explain.  There are many reasons why we are in this situation.  It doesn't start with Bush.  Go back to Jimmy Carter.

Please reply.

Chris

The problem with "Trickle down" is that the money will never goes down far enough. Its obvious with the situation our country is in now. :sad:
 
 A prime example of why it doesnt work, is the bailout. That money was to [I]bail out[/I] those companies FOR US. The flow of money stopped with the upper management in the form of bonuses that they dont deserve. That money was supposed to be used FOR the people. 
 
The middle class is what fuels this nation as both Dems and Republicans will agree....but how hard can u squeeze them before the system fails? People are drained, tired and unhappy.
 
One thing ive learned about people with money...they will make money no matter what. The rules changed...not the game. 
 
Enable the middle class to hold their heads up and enjoy a night out with their families after long weeks work, help them buy that big screen for the superbowl...All of this is putting money back into the economy.  
 
Exxon mobile just posted the highest profit in a quarter than any biz in history....beating their own record. Have you seen an increase in hiring by them? nope....just us paying more for fuel. 
 
McCain thinks its a good idea to give that company more tax breaks...while theyre breakin us. 
 
give the tax break to the middle class. Keep em spendin and fueling the economy. 
 
Id rather see my customers with more SPENDING money than to have a tax credit from the money of a few who have a disposable income to buy "car stuff".  That tax credit wont help me create another job, if normal people are too broke to by my stuff. Spend more money and I'll make more money and provide jobs to help with growth. 
 
 
It doesnt make sense for me to have a huge factory and fully staffed...when I dont make enough money to pay them or run said factory. thats just bad business.  
 
 
***then I can pay my current helpers with actual money vs used car parts and a "thank you" :smiley-rofl:   
 
The math is really simple.:biggthumpup:
 
My only hope is that after the election, people will stay as passionate about the direction of this country. 
 
Lets face the truth: [U]This[/U] election is about the first Minority that will take office and how [B]old America[/B] will deal with it.  There are actually people who are so retarded that they hope that he fails as a persident...if he (Obama or McCain) fails, we as a nation fail too.  Current history shows this to be true. 
 
we've had our ups and downs and our country is more than strong enough to bounce back from this economic down turn.:biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;201040]The problem with "Trickle down" is that the money will never goes down far enough. Its obvious with the situation our country is in now. :sad:
 
 A prime example of why it doesnt work, is the bailout. That money was to [I]bail out[/I] those companies FOR US. The flow of money stopped with the upper management in the form of bonuses that they dont deserve. That money was supposed to be used FOR the people. 
 
The middle class is what fuels this nation as both Dems and Republicans will agree....but how hard can u squeeze them before the system fails? People are drained, tired and unhappy.
 
One thing ive learned about people with money...they will make money no matter what. The rules changed...not the game. 
 
Enable the middle class to hold their heads up and enjoy a night out with their families after long weeks work, help them buy that big screen for the superbowl...All of this is putting money back into the economy.  
 
Exxon mobile just posted the highest profit in a quarter than any biz in history....beating their own record. Have you seen an increase in hiring by them? nope....just us paying more for fuel. 
 
McCain thinks its a good idea to give that company more tax breaks...while theyre breakin us. 
 
give the tax break to the middle class. Keep em spendin and fueling the economy. 
 
Id rather see my customers with more SPENDING money than to have a tax credit from the money of a few who have a disposable income to buy "car stuff".  That tax credit wont help me create another job, if normal people are too broke to by my stuff. Spend more money and I'll make more money and provide jobs to help with growth. 
 
 
It doesnt make sense for me to have a huge factory and fully staffed...when I dont make enough money to pay them or run said factory. thats just bad business.  
 
 
***then I can pay my current helpers with actual money vs used car parts and a "thank you" :smiley-rofl:   
 
The math is really simple.:biggthumpup:
 
My only hope is that after the election, people will stay as passionate about the direction of this country. 
 
Lets face the truth: [U]This[/U] election is about the first Minority that will take office and how [B]old America[/B] will deal with it.  There are actually people who are so retarded that they hope that he fails as a persident...if he (Obama or McCain) fails, we as a nation fail too.  Current history shows this to be true. 
 
we've had our ups and downs and our country is more than strong enough to bounce back from this economic down turn.:biggthumpup:[/QUOTE]

The middle class has already had a tax break...through George Bush.  Obama has already pledged he will let them expire in 2010.  At that time, ALL OF OUR taxes will go up.  At this point in our economy though, he is actually starting to reconsider letting it lapse.  Here is what will happen if they lapse...

[url]http://www.heritage.org/research/taxes/wm956.cfm[/url]

When you say people with money will continue to make money, you're right.  But if you start to squeeze these people for more money, why would they stay and make that money?  Sure some people have to stay here, but there are plenty of people that will take their business elsewhere.  It is a global market afterall.  They could go to Ireland, where the govt recently cut taxes on big corps.  They are seeing a boom over there right now.  You see, if there is nothing holding a rich person back from making big money somewhere else, why wouldn't they go?

Exxon does not control 100% of the oil prices.  Just recently OPEC said they would cut back on productin so the prices would go up.  They are flipping out at $60/barrell oil (which is roughly what it is now).  There will be more profits to be made.  But who cares?  They have a product that Americans NEED.  They aren't gouging us.  We're not paying through the nose like in other countries...Japan for example.  If I created a product that America needed, I would try to make as much as I could on it.  If the demand is their, you keep selling it.  Now if they held back on production like OPEC just to make the price go up, then there's a problem.

Current history (oxymoron?) shows that taxing the rich does not help.  Look at the Carter era.  He is still considered by many the worst president ever.  My coworker told me a story... he recalls him and his dad listening to a fireside chat on TV.  It was carter and he basically told America that it was our own fault for putting themselves in the bad economic climate that they were in.   Carter did not even look at his own administration and things that were put in place that led to the downturn.  The thing is...the POTUS should not finger point the citizens.  We love our country and we respect all that it stands for.  It is the best place to live in the entire world.

I think that's one of the things that irks me about Obama.  He is blaming us for what is happening and telling us that we are all victims.  We're not victims...we are trying the best we can.  It's the current administration (Democrat majority congress) that put us in this position.

Chris

[quote=chrisngo;201025]Please explain.  There are many reasons why we are in this situation.  It doesn't start with Bush.  Go back to Jimmy Carter.

Please reply.

Chris[/quote]

I've already replied enough in this thread, but simply put: I got nothing particular against McCain, but I don't think he's fit to be President. I don't really trust him, and he agrees with Bush all the time, which is a major part of why we're in this mess, it's not Jimmy Carter. If anything, it's REGAN, where all the "trickle down" crap came from in the first place.  

Now Palin, she's a MORON of epic proportion.  She's a pretty face with NO experience.  You know what the Mayor of Wasilla does?  All the "real decisions (I) made" when Palin was Mayor of Wasilla? (I was on the board at my Condo, does that qualify me to be VP too? We probably have 1/2 the population of Wasila in our building lol) Watch the Daily Show where they went and asked the current Mayor of Wasilla!!  She was dumbfounded when asked "what do you do on a typical day as mayor", all she could come up with was "we have a staff meeting on Monday morning, and, uhhhhhhh, ummmm, uhhhhhh, I sign checks on Thursday."  YEEEE HAW, just the qualification you need to be Vice President of the United States of America!!!!!  You make "real decisions" about what kind of donuts to bring to your Monday staff meeting, and on Thursday you sign checks.

[quote=F.L.S.;201015]McCain - Palin. If they win, we're in deeper shit than we already are in.[/quote]
 
Not if you talk to Most in the Financial field.  All the large lenders will tell you that if Obama takes office it will be at least 2011 before the markets free up.  With McCain they expect them to free up by 2010.
 
Sources-  Wells Fargo, Key Bank, and a number of local banks.

[QUOTE=F.L.S.;201048]I've already replied enough in this thread, but simply put: I got nothing particular against McCain, but I don't think he's fit to be President. I don't really trust him, and he agrees with Bush all the time, which is a major part of why we're in this mess, it's not Jimmy Carter. If anything, it's REGAN, where all the "trickle down" crap came from in the first place.  

Now Palin, she's a MORON of epic proportion.  She's a pretty face with NO experience.  You know what the Mayor of Wasilla does?  All the "real decisions (I) made" when Palin was Mayor of Wasilla? (I was on the board at my Condo, does that qualify me to be VP too? We probably have 1/2 the population of Wasila in our building lol) Watch the Daily Show where they went and asked the current Mayor of Wasilla!!  She was dumbfounded when asked "what do you do on a typical day as mayor", all she could come up with was "we have a staff meeting on Monday morning, and, uhhhhhhh, ummmm, uhhhhhh, I sign checks on Thursday."  YEEEE HAW, just the qualification you need to be Vice President of the United States of America!!!!!  You make "real decisions" about what kind of donuts to bring to your Monday staff meeting, and on Thursday you sign checks.[/QUOTE]



And your boy obama has much more experience? he was the leader of a community group, and senator for 2 years, c'mon if your gonna say Palin has no experience, please check whom your voting for and his lack of experience. Hes a great speaker with NO experience..

neither one of them can conduct a speech without a teleprompter

that reason alone im not even voting for presidential candidate. they are both fumbling idiots that cannot do simple things, but instead argue over who does what 90% of the time

[quote=Yokotas13;201124]neither one of them can conduct a speech without a teleprompter
 
that reason alone im not even voting for presidential candidate. they are both fumbling idiots that cannot do simple things, but instead argue over who does what 90% of the time[/quote]
 
QFT.

Sad, but true. 1 term president with either of these two. Out of the two, I'd say Obama has a CHANCE he may get a 2nd term, depending on how badly the economy contracts, and how much he can really do to restore 'order' to this country. 
 
If I were him, I'd say forget the rest of the world for now, fix the problems here at home.

however, if one of them said they would make AAFES Pacific gas prices mirror stateside prices, i woudl vote for that guy

im sick of fucking 4.06 a gallon

[quote=DriftGirl;201040]
 
Lets face the truth: [U]This[/U] election is about the first Minority that will take office and how [B]old America[/B] will deal with it. There are actually people who are so retarded that they hope that he fails as a persident...if he (Obama or McCain) fails, we as a nation fail too. Current history shows this to be true. 
[/quote]
 
This IS the problem with this election. People are so caught up in the idea of breaking history and electing a minority that everyone is either following the media and the herd without realizing this guy has some of the scariest ties to shady organizations and some of the most socialistic policies of any candidate supported by the two party system. I wish there was a QUALIFIED black man and a Hispanic VP with him that I COULD vote for. Obama is NOT it. and for those that don't vote for him we are labeled Racist/Old/Stuck in our ways etc. 
 
The race card has been avoided the entire campaign included the race for candidacy within the Democratic Party. The party itself hushed Hillary when she started to bring up Obama's Coke habit or his ties to terrorists in his own community. Sad how the liberal media is pulling the wool over the general US population.
 
 
 
As for the second part of the statement, if Obama does take office I hope he does great other than his plans to implement every Democratic handout while he and his party have full control over congress as well. They will put in soooo many plans that we will never be able to get rid of. I.E-soc.securty, EVERYONE knows it is broke and doesn't work right, but we CANNOT change it because in order to do so a certain portion of the population will have to get screwed and no politician is willing to stand up and say "I voted for that" even if it is in the best interest of the LONG term of this country.....but for all our sake I hope he does well.
 
All four candidates P's and VP's suck and when the Kool-Aid drinkers wake up and realize that, this country will be much better off because we will finally have the voice to demand REAL change for the betterment of this country. That change needs to start with a 3rd party. The two party system is not a democracy. The Electoral College is the next thing that needs to go. I think it is really ironic that a system that was put in place over a hundred years ago to keep the power in the hands of white land owning males will be the catalyst for the election of the first Minority to ever be president. McCain may win the majority vote but Obama will take office from the electoral college. I said it was BS last time it happened and it is still BS.

[quote=burgy;201182]... The Electoral College is the next thing that needs to go. I think it is really ironic that a system that was put in place over a hundred years ago to keep the power in the hands of white land owning males will be the catalyst for the election of the first Minority to ever be president. McCain may win the majority vote but Obama will take office from the electoral college.......[/quote]
 
[CENTER]ohhh, im sure it will be looked into when/if Obama wins. People tend to get pissy when they make the rules of a game and still lose.....
:smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl:[/CENTER]
 
[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9eF3TfNMTDg/Rw9P1xy8AMI/AAAAAAAAHYk/CM-HTmogMCs/s1600/motivational_poster_irony.jpg[/IMG]
 
[B]The bottom line:[/B] We've tried it for 8 years one way. [B]Its not working[/B]. Try something else... or have 4-8 more years of the same. The people will decide and we should all live with the decision and work towards repairing our country. 
 
The sad part is that Ive like McCain for many years, until recently :sad: 
 
in parting: 
 
- Tax issues will mainly be your local gov. Those are the ones to watch...we have a Governor chick up here in Washington that thinks our state is a freakin Monopoly game with unlimited funds. We are THE most taxed state in the union...She has to go find another job soon:smiley-rofl:
 
- People who dont make a quarter Million per year....dont worry about those who do. They know how to make money...and have it. Get on that level and then complain. I dont understand the logic of one who eats top ramen and is sad because someone (they dont know) will only eat steak and lobster 6 days a week, when they used to do it 7 
 
Anywayz, This election is a wrap....time to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and get back to what made us the most powerful and [B]RESPECTED[/B] country in the world...bitchin and anything else  would be unAmerican. :thelaw: 
 
Im headed to SEMA this weekend, hopefully you guys/gals will be able to pick up some of the cool stuff I bring back with your tax rebates...then I can afford to expand this new part of my company and hire more folks...
 
I can build the greatest car in the world....but it doesnt work without the fuel to run it.  
 
 
-[B]D[/B]rift[B]G[/B]irl [I]aka [/I][B] "D G[/B]irl",  [I]aka[/I] "Lil[B] D[/B]uffle bag [B]G[/B]irl" :smiley-rofl:
"[B]D[/B] rules change...the [B]G[/B]ame remains the same"

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;201201][CENTER]ohhh, im sure it will be looked into when/if Obama wins. People tend to get pissy when they make the rules of a game and still lose.....
:smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl:[/CENTER]
 
[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9eF3TfNMTDg/Rw9P1xy8AMI/AAAAAAAAHYk/CM-HTmogMCs/s1600/motivational_poster_irony.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]



and if he loses, will he cry like a little bitch like Gore did in 2000, and demand a recount? or will he take it like a man?

[quote=phrosttz0;201204]and if he loses, will he cry like a little bitch like Gore did in 2000, and demand a recount? or will he take it like a man?[/quote]
 
is this really debatable? Calls for speculation...however, the way he has handled the sum pretty disturbing things (that no other candidate has had to endure) has been amazing on his part,so far. 
 
but then again, im hella petty and will shoulder-check a 2 year old at the Mall =)
 
Will the McCain camp cry like lil bitches when they lose? or will he/she take it like a man as well? 
 
Do you expect more or less from either camp? 
 
 
[CENTER]My thoughts on elections: [B]there should always be a recount[/B]
My thoughts on politicians: [B]They all cry like bitches when losing[/B][/CENTER]

truth^^ there should be a standardized way of voting or machine, that all citizens across the country vote the same way.. or recount.. next well all be voting through the internet, lol...

yeah,  I was watching a documentary on HBO the other day about those electronic Voting machines....scarrrrrry stuff. :sad:
 
The Old school, Paper ballot is the best way to conduct voting in my opinion.:biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=DriftGirl;201215]yeah,  I was watching a documentary on HBO the other day about those electronic Voting machines....scarrrrrry stuff. :sad:
 
The Old school, Paper ballot is the best way to conduct voting in my opinion.:biggthumpup:[/QUOTE]

Corrrect.  Anything electronic is hackable...no matter how fool proof you make it.

Chris

McCains whack ass view of low class people are ones that make less than $250k /yr....  now if that isnt retarded, then I dont know what is.

^^exactly^^

[QUOTE=burgy;201182]All four candidates P's and VP's suck [COLOR="Red"]and when the Kool-Aid drinkers wake up[/COLOR] and realize that, this country will be much better off because we will finally have the voice to demand REAL change for the betterment of this country.[/QUOTE]

Uhm..WAT??  What the hell is that supposed to  mean?  I drink Kool-Aid?

At the end of a cult everyone drinks the poisoned Kool-aid.....and catches the space ship to another world.

I thought tha [I]Jim Jones[/I] reference would slip by folks. :sad:
 
Lets keep this clean [B]and [/B]respectful people....We are ALL in this together. EVERY culture has had issues, and none should be pointing fingers. 
 
We will just assume it was a misunderstanding or a bad joke (that may get taken the wrong way) and just drop it...no need to reply to this. 
 
 
Please be respectful of others or the thread will have to close.

With all that behind us.....
 
I present to you the BESTEST OBAMA vs McCain video EVAR!! 
[youtube]kmpOtrLf-Is[/youtube]
 
been laughin all mornin

I was curious as to what he meant..that could have gone so many directions.  Which was exactly my point..being too vague can lead to problems due to assumptions.  So remember that when you post, this goes for everyone.  I wasn't upset or bothered...haha, just trying to make a point.

[QUOTE=RaCinStylez;201224]McCains whack ass view of low class people are ones that make less than $250k /yr....  now if that isnt retarded, then I dont know what is.[/QUOTE]

I don't think he thinks low class are people that make less 250K/year.  I'm pretty sure that the government agrees on who low class people are.  If that was the case I would be on welfare paying for wheels with gov't checks and getting groceries with WIC's.

Chris

I can't wait for election day, it's gonna be chaos.

Tomorrow....we shall see which evil is chosen. 
 
Remember remember the 4th of November....lol...

[B]Educational Background:

Barack Obama:[/B] 

Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations.

Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

[B]Joseph Biden:[/B]

University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.

Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

[I][B]vs.[/B][/I]

[B]John McCain:[/B]

United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899  (that's right, the fifth from the BOTTOM OF THE BARREL.  FACT, not FICTION.)

[B]Sarah Palin:[/B]

Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester

North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study

University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism

Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester

University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism


Sarah Palin has about as much education as I do, and has a generic "journalism" degree.  McCain graduated from the Naval Academy, which is an excellent school, but he was at the very bottom of his class.

Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the world. You make the call.

I cant wait for Obama to take over!

lol @education....it really shows in palin's interviews.

Yesterday on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed.
Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama/Biden 08" pin, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference.
When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept.
He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need, the homeless guy outside.
The server angrily stormed away.
I went outside, gave the homeless guy $5 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn,
but the waiter was really pissed that I gave away the money he did earn even though the homeless guy seemed to need the money more.
I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.

That's awesome.  BHO FTL.

[quote=blklegend;201931]Yesterday on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed.
Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama/Biden 08" pin, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference.
When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept.
He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need, the homeless guy outside.
The server angrily stormed away.
I went outside, gave the homeless guy $5 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn,
but the waiter was really pissed that I gave away the money he did earn even though the homeless guy seemed to need the money more.
I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.[/quote]
 
Perfect analogy! Sad but true, and that goes along with this..
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/MKIVPWR/981F91B7-2309-4F9A-A47C-988047C9-1.gif[/IMG]
 
[SIZE=3]And because some people need their eys open...[/SIZE]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/MKIVPWR/nobama.jpg[/IMG]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=darkorange][B]Yes, this is certainly the guy we need in office, one who doesn't even believe in the most basic patriotic fundamentals of our country!?[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[quote=blklegend;201931]Yesterday on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed.
Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama/Biden 08" pin, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference.
When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept.
He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need, the homeless guy outside.
The server angrily stormed away.
I went outside, gave the homeless guy $5 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn,
but the waiter was really pissed that I gave away the money he did earn even though the homeless guy seemed to need the money more.
I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.[/quote]

That's a story going around. Don't take credit for something you didn't do.

Ya thats great.  How dare he use our tax paying money to spread the wealth among the lower class.  That kind of socialism should be left to spread the tax money to banks and private corporations so they can go on long weekends and have a nice mansion.  You see I make over $250,000 and do not want to pay more taxes so someone in the lower ranks can have the purchasing power to buy my products. It makes sense, the more I make, the more I keep. The less they make, the more they should be tax, so they can afford less and buy more of my products. BUT With what money?!! who cares,  If I’m making money. We live in a Christian country, I believe what Jesus said, keep more of your wealth and dont share.

You guys that lash out about Obama's tax plan dont even make more than $100k I bet, and dont even understand his plan at all.  McCain wanted private corporations to make more money and get taxed less.  Thats not right at all.  How are you going to take the middle/lower class people that take up more than half of the population in the US.

Only 31 percent of American middle-class families can be considered financially secure.
One out of every four middle-class families is at "high risk" of falling out of the middle class.
21 percent of middle-class families have less than $100 a week left after essential expenses


ya, i say lets let all the private companies keep thier high paying jobs.  Lets not tax them so they stay happy drinking thier 1787 Chateau Lafite Wine and Caviar.  They can go on longer vacations and be able to afford larger mansions...hell maybe even another private jet or two



/rant

[quote=VIP KING;201942]

 
[SIZE=3]And because some people need their eys open...[/SIZE]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/MKIVPWR/nobama.jpg[/IMG]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=darkorange][B]Yes, this is certainly the guy we need in office, one who doesn't even believe in the most basic patriotic fundamentals of our country!?[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/quote]


This picture shows what an uninformed, bitter person you are.  That pic was taken during the National Anthem. And then some Republican whacko started a chain email that spread like a virus saying what you just said. And similarly uninformed, simple minded folk all believe it like it's true.

You don't have to (it's note even suggested to) cross your heart during the National Anthem.  It's during the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE  which you're supposed to cross your heart.  That picture was taken during the NATIONAL ANTHEM. Do some RESEARCH and try again.


BOTTOM LINE: You want an idiot with no experience in the real world (sorry, Alaska Governor is = President of HOA at a large complex in L.A.) who went to 5 different colleges to throw together a basic degree so her daddy would buy her a college graduation gift, and an old, old, old man who graduated at the BOTTOM OF HIS CLASS over two extremely intelegent, self made men?

It's funny, 90% of the Hollywood actors, musicians, etc. you know, extremely RICH people want Obama in office! These are people with tons and tons of money who would stand to be taxed at a higher (2-3% GASP!!!!) rate. How is that????? I'm dumbfounded, they're gonna lose all their money if Obama wins :smiley-rofl:


[quote=RaCinStylez;201956]Ya thats great. How dare he use our tax paying money to spread the wealth among the lower class. That kind of socialism should be left to spread the tax money to banks and private corporations so they can go on long weekends and have a nice mansion. You see I make over $250,000 and do not want to pay more taxes so someone in the lower ranks can have the purchasing power to buy my products. It makes sense, the more I make, the more I keep. The less they make, the more they should be tax, so they can afford less and buy more of my products. BUT With what money?!! who cares, If I’m making money. We live in a Christian country, I believe what Jesus said, keep more of your wealth and dont share.[/quote]


:smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl::smiley-rofl:

[quote=RaCinStylez;201956] We live in a Christian country, I believe what Jesus said, keep more of your wealth and dont share.[/quote]

uhhh dude i dont know if your trying to make a point or being funny.... but something about this statement seems very off dont you think??

[QUOTE=Brandicus;201959]uhhh dude i dont know if your trying to make a point or being funny.... but something about this statement seems very off dont you think??[/QUOTE]

sorry man, I was on a rant.  I was really just trying to be funny.  If you think its vulgar or people may take it the wrong way ill delete it from my post.

I like the hardcore sarcasm in the comment myself.

No offense taken brotha, I was just trying to see where you were coming from.

I just voted! I will not reveal who for though, Id rather not be judged for who i am as a person because of my political views.

anis you ready to shoot up some fools tonight?!?! (virtually of course)

Dude Brandon you should be proud of who you vote for, regardless of who judges you.

I nvr said I am taking credit for it, I just copied and pasted what was on my email.

[QUOTE=blklegend;201983]I nvr said I am taking credit for it, I just copied and pasted what was on my email.[/QUOTE]
Yet posting it without personal explanation displays acceptance and that you agreed with it.  Which I found even funnier.  The trend I've seen with a large number of those voting Republican is that they just go with their flow..agree without knowing too much.  Just to follow their "party" whether it's right or wrong.  Or even due to social acceptance...

[quote=F.L.S.;201957]This picture shows what an uninformed, bitter person you are...[/quote]
 
Bitter no, uninformed, most certainly not, educated yes.
Look, I don’t know you or what you truly believe in, everyone is entitled to their own. And you’re probably a pretty great guy to hang with (if not even most or all of those that chat here); I will however make this statement.

Regardless of the National Anthem or the Pledge of Allegiance there are American
Traditions that were created long before Obama’s time, period! And those who blatantly ignore or stand against the most basic founding traditions of allegiance to his country
is nothing more then a liberal socialist pig. And that’s exactly what Obama is, he is in this one example (picture) defying the very core of our countries tradition and belief.

And how typical for a lib (not you specifically) to cry out and claim a Republican is a whacko because he stands for those very deep seated beliefs of how this countries principle and beliefs have brought us to where we are now. Our forefathers would roll over in their grave if they could see how the mooches of society are raping this country now. And even worse how the Government is tolerating it and letting it become this way. And as for the tax beliefs of Obama, or better yet the bleeding heart libs... has the concept of earning a living, working hard for success, or even the phrase "where there is a will, there is a way" mean anything to you? It never ceases to amaze me this liberal thought process of, tax the successful and dish out the profits of their hard earned money to those who do nothing to better themselves. The idea that the mooches of society can come to this country or the ones that already live here, pop babies out, become American citizens do nothing and still collect a check or a handout. Thank you democrats for allowing this to continue with your frivolous social programs designed to oppress the so called less fortunate and tax the strong and willing.
And democrats embrace this idea, and the funny thing is people take advantage of it because they know they can get away with it.
And that ridiculous statement about essentially giving out money to the poor so they can buy my products, WOW! Seriously? How about, bust your ass working hard, earn your own keep, and in turn spend your hard earned money the way you want. How about, you may not make enough now to buy that fancy car, but if you work for it hard enough, you’ll get what you want. What a concept huh? People work hard; contribute to the success and betterment of the country as a whole, and then you the business owner still makes money because the people are buying your product. Man, who would have thought that hard work brings success; hell it has for so many immigrants who have flocked to the country for centuries to live the American dream.
I’ve worked my ass off for my own success, never had a handout and some how I am able to afford the things I want. And it’s amazing how so many have also managed to do this. But lets tax them more, because we want it to be fair for everyone.
The bum on the street shouldn't go look for a job, what the hell for, would you if you knew you didn't have to do crap all day and still get a hand out?! God forbid these lazy asses get up, clean themselves up, and go job hunting.
God forbid they get a basic paying job and actually work their way up the latter in life to be successful. Hell, what for when you can do nothing and still collect? But let’s, all feel sorry for them; let’s give them no means to be successful because a handout is easier. I have zero pity for those that do nothing for themselves.

Here is a successful guy, worked or works his ass off all day running a 
business or working for one, all the while watching his tax dollars go to some lazy ass turds collecting to do nothing. I don't mind paying taxes for improvements to the streets, building a city better or bigger, better public transportation systems or paying for better educational programs and such, but watch lazy asses do nothing while I bust my balls working. To hell with that concept, however that is the dems belief, tax the rich and hard working middle class or above, and give out to bunch of socialist programs and lazy people. I don't think so. And the fact is it exists in this country far too much. And another odd thing is, democrats cry about oppression, and this concept is nothing more then a form of that, it is a form of keeping the lower class down, keeping them at a point where they will continuously rely on the Government for a easy handout. No sense of self worth, or concept of work hard to be successful. Heck we’ll just sit around and complain it’s never enough, and continue to want more for doing nothing. Why because that’s the easy way. I can see where the Dems would win; they bring the gold right to your feet, and keep you coming back for more. Why should they work harder to contribute to this country, why should they work hard to be successful and raise a family, what for when they know they can get a handout and just barley make it too boot, but hell, it’s free. God forbid the government empower the people of this country to work towards success on their own. Heck what for, the libs will just hand them money and benefits for nothing. Make the hard working and willing and eager to be successful class pay for the existence of the lazy and unwilling. And on another serious note, this is just one or two examples of how Obama or any other lib is going to strip this very country of everything we; the hard working American people from generations of the past have worked so very hard to achieve. God forbid we encourage people to be hard working and successful, contribute to the better of our country as a whole, and to earn their right to be in this country. But let me guess, my beliefs would have me pegged for a whacko.

Here is another analogy for those who can't get the concept of liberalism. This is not my own either for those who think I am claiming it as mine, it was mailed to me.
 
Take Down the Bird Feeder
 
The analogy is absolutely right on . . .
 
I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed. What a beauty of a bird feeder it is, as I filled it lovingly with seed. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table ..everywhere! Then some of the birds turned mean. They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. And others birds were boisterous and loud. They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food. After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore. So I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio. Soon, the back yard was like it used to be.... quiet, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal. Now let's see. Our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, and free education and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen. Then the illegal came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families; you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor; your child's 2nd grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn't speak English. Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to 'press one' to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than 'Old Glory' are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.  

Just my opinion, but maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder.  If you agree, pass it on; if not, continue cleaning up the poop!

[QUOTE=VIP KING;202007][quote=F.L.S.;201957]This picture shows what an uninformed, bitter person you are...[/quote]
 
Bitter no, uninformed, most certainly not, educated yes.
Look, I don’t know you or what you truly believe in, everyone is entitled to their own. And you’re probably a pretty great guy to hang with (if not even most or all of those that chat here); I will however make this statement.

Regardless of the National Anthem or the Pledge of Allegiance there are American
Traditions that were created long before Obama’s time, period! And those who blatantly ignore or stand against the most basic founding traditions of allegiance to his country
is nothing more then a liberal socialist pig. And that’s exactly what Obama is, he is in this one example (picture) defying the very core of our countries tradition and belief.

And how typical for a lib (not you specifically) to cry out and claim a Republican is a whacko because he stands for those very deep seated beliefs of how this countries principle and beliefs have brought us to where we are now. Our forefathers would roll over in their grave if they could see how the mooches of society are raping this country now. And even worse how the Government is tolerating it and letting it become this way. And as for the tax beliefs of Obama, or better yet the bleeding heart libs... has the concept of earning a living, working hard for success, or even the phrase "where there is a will, there is a way" mean anything to you? It never ceases to amaze me this liberal thought process of, tax the successful and dish out the profits of their hard earned money to those who do nothing to better themselves. The idea that the mooches of society can come to this country or the ones that already live here, pop babies out, become American citizens do nothing and still collect a check or a handout. Thank you democrats for allowing this to continue with your frivolous social programs designed to oppress the so called less fortunate and tax the strong and willing.
And democrats embrace this idea, and the funny thing is people take advantage of it because they know they can get away with it.
And that ridiculous statement about essentially giving out money to the poor so they can buy my products, WOW! Seriously? How about, bust your ass working hard, earn your own keep, and in turn spend your hard earned money the way you want. How about, you may not make enough now to buy that fancy car, but if you work for it hard enough, you’ll get what you want. What a concept huh? People work hard; contribute to the success and betterment of the country as a whole, and then you the business owner still makes money because the people are buying your product. Man, who would have thought that hard work brings success; hell it has for so many immigrants who have flocked to the country for centuries to live the American dream.
I’ve worked my ass off for my own success, never had a handout and some how I am able to afford the things I want. And it’s amazing how so many have also managed to do this. But lets tax them more, because we want it to be fair for everyone.
The bum on the street shouldn't go look for a job, what the hell for, would you if you knew you didn't have to do crap all day and still get a hand out?! God forbid these lazy asses get up, clean themselves up, and go job hunting.
God forbid they get a basic paying job and actually work their way up the latter in life to be successful. Hell, what for when you can do nothing and still collect? But let’s, all feel sorry for them; let’s give them no means to be successful because a handout is easier. I have zero pity for those that do nothing for themselves.

Here is a successful guy, worked or works his ass off all day running a 
business or working for one, all the while watching his tax dollars go to some lazy ass turds collecting to do nothing. I don't mind paying taxes for improvements to the streets, building a city better or bigger, better public transportation systems or paying for better educational programs and such, but watch lazy asses do nothing while I bust my balls working. To hell with that concept, however that is the dems belief, tax the rich and hard working middle class or above, and give out to bunch of socialist programs and lazy people. I don't think so. And the fact is it exists in this country far too much. And another odd thing is, democrats cry about oppression, and this concept is nothing more then a form of that, it is a form of keeping the lower class down, keeping them at a point where they will continuously rely on the Government for a easy handout. No sense of self worth, or concept of work hard to be successful. Heck we’ll just sit around and complain it’s never enough, and continue to want more for doing nothing. Why because that’s the easy way. I can see where the Dems would win; they bring the gold right to your feet, and keep you coming back for more. Why should they work harder to contribute to this country, why should they work hard to be successful and raise a family, what for when they know they can get a handout and just barley make it too boot, but hell, it’s free. God forbid the government empower the people of this country to work towards success on their own. Heck what for, the libs will just hand them money and benefits for nothing. Make the hard working and willing and eager to be successful class pay for the existence of the lazy and unwilling. And on another serious note, this is just one or two examples of how Obama or any other lib is going to strip this very country of everything we; the hard working American people from generations of the past have worked so very hard to achieve. God forbid we encourage people to be hard working and successful, contribute to the better of our country as a whole, and to earn their right to be in this country. But let me guess, my beliefs would have me pegged for a whacko.[/QUOTE]


lol... I find it funny how ironic your post is.  I wonder who and what party has ran this country for the past 8 years and look where it has gotten us.  Now, who did rape this country?  It sure wasnt the democrates and Clinton.  He put us into a surplus while you right wing nuts put us into debt within the first year in office.  


Now on a side note since you basically just called all democrates lazy people that dont work.  I started my business when I was 18 yrs old.  I busted my ass for 2 years working 60+ hrs a week to save up enough money to get my business started.  Even after I had the business up and running it still took me another 2.5 years of working 12hrs a day no days off to get where I am today.  yes 5+ years later I make a good amount of money per year, and yes I still agree with what Obama says about tax reform.  He just wants to tax those that make over $250k/yr an extra (2%-3%) .  Now to those that make that mucha  year, that surely isnt a lot of money.  Especially when you see the money go back into the economy of the country you live in, instead of some rich corporate bozo's swiss bank account.

Wow way to have something  in an absolutist way.   I know it's not yours, but that is a VERY inaccurate analogy.   I tried to stay out of this, but ignorance draws me back in (not you specifically).  At the end of this year, I will have earned my bachelors degrees in Criminal Justice and Political Science (also have an emphasis on Pre-Law), so this election has been something close to my heart.  I see absolutist views that "WE ARE ALL GOING SOCIALIST" and other sentiments of such.   People see the SLIGHTEST hint of change to equate a coop or something; I can't figure it out.   I have serious issues with the "Let's help only ourselves" attitude that seems to be rampant when discussing such things as social security/welfare/other social programs.   On the Statue of Liberty I am reminded of the inscription that says "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"    Although I think we do need capitalism, and we do need to work towards pulling ourselves up from our bootstraps, we also need to be compassionate to those that need it.   You bash these illegals but I ask you- would YOU do the jobs that they are willing to do?  I am going to flat out tell you no, and neither would 99% of the unemployed Americans.  I dare you to go to a meatpacking plant and deal with those conditions.   Instead of focusing on getting rid of this work force, we need to focus on educating our unemployed citizens (and future generations) the ideals of work.  Until that happens, it is a necessary evil.  Instead people are voting for a candidate in John McCain who refuses to vote towards funding education.  He goes as far as to give 11 billion dollars worth of corporate tax loop holes BACK to the companies, instead of funding education.   This is what is hurting us, and this is what is causing a perpetual cycle.   McCain (and Bush policies) have been detrimental towards our work force.   I honestly dont know if I could be any more frustrated.   I have parents as teachers, and I see the bureaucracy that is involved with even teaching a 9th grade class.   Not only do we need this education reform, we also need to focus on health care and ending this war.   Nearly 6 years later, in a war that was supposed to last 6 months, we are struggling to save face in this world.   I hear the terms "win" and "succeed" when discussing this war, but I want to know what that means.   You think we are going to instill a democracy in a country that is divided into 3 religious/cultural factions and be able to leave?   Is that win?  If so, you really need to check your world politics and see how this world works.    You almost have a better chance of Israel and Palestine ending their feud than us "winning" an Arabic country.  It is frustrating to hear this terms and know that people ACTUALLY believe it.   Everyone follows up to ask "What do we do then?"    PULL OUT.   Let me tell you from my background: it will go into civil war no matter when we pull out, whether we stay 10 seconds longer or 10 years.    You are naive to believe anything else.   It will have the same result, so why are we delaying the inevitable and killing off more of our troops?  (a strong passion of mine with friends being killed in Iraq and having lived my whole life in a military community).   Then, when having this discussion with people they say "Well I'm going to choose the lesser of two evils".  I ask you WHY you specifically believe this since you aren't running yourself to make change.   No matter who is ever chosen by a party, they will have this stigma as being "a politician".  All I ask, is that you actually research the topics and issues and decide what is best for you, not which ideology your parents have held.    In the end, tomorrow will still come no matter who is elected.   Despite my bias in being an Obama supporter, I think he has this election locked, along with probably 59 voting Senators.    Reform will happen, but slowly and it will take time.   We will have to become more of an isolationist country to focus on our domestic issues.   This would go for either president, as McCain knows deep down he couldn't continue to fight this war if it continued to hurt the economy.  Like I said though, PLEASE BE EDUCATED if you are going to vote, otherwise don't.  This goes for Democrats AND Republicans.  This election has been something I have been very passionate about, as I'm sure you can tell.   My vote is going Obama as I am trying to get away from "traditional politics", the kind that has hindered growth and indebted us to "big business" that lines the pockets of politicians.    We need to have reform in nearly all our sectors, including education, health care, and foreign policy- something I don't think McCain could have the Congressional backing to do (it's a given that he will have a Democrat Congress even if he were elected, making him a do nothing president).  With that being said, I think it will be a great way to see the true metal of Obama.  If things don't work out- you have my word that I will be one of the first to admit the flaws and wrongs in his policies or decisions.  Therefore, might as well vote for Obama- either we get the reform that NEEDS to happen (whether a GOP member or a Democrat), or you get to say to people like me "I told you so!".    You have a win-win on either case!  Voting Obama in 08!

Scotty

[quote=RaCinStylez;202011]lol... I find it funny how ironic your post is. I wonder who and what party has ran this country for the past 8 years and look where it has gotten us. Now, who did rape this country? It sure wasnt the democrates and Clinton. He put us into a surplus while you right wing nuts put us into debt within the first year in office. 
 
 
Now on a side note since you basically just called all democrates lazy people that dont work. I started my business when I was 18 yrs old. I busted my ass for 2 years working 60+ hrs a week to save up enough money to get my business started. Even after I had the business up and running it still took me another 2.5 years of working 12hrs a day no days off to get where I am today. yes 5+ years later I make a good amount of money per year, and yes I still agree with what Obama says about tax reform.[/quote]
 
I find it funny that you think this is all the fault of Bush, and granted all politicians have their flaws in some ways or another. However, if it wasn't for 8 years of the scandalist office of Clinton, we wouldn't be in this predicament and we wouldn't have to be cleaning up the crap from our oh so famous past president.
 
And I'm happy for you and your sucess, if you enjoy working your ass off and dishing out your money to the lazy, more power to you. As a matter of fact then, let me forward you my address so I can collect directly from you the source.
 
Oh wait, let me guess, you're not willing to Paypal or just write me a check for money are you?

[QUOTE=VIP KING;202015]However, if it wasn't for 8 years of the scandalist office of Clinton, we wouldn't be in this predicament and we wouldn't have to be cleaning up the crap from our oh so famous past president.
 [/QUOTE]


Pleeeeeeease elaborate.  I have thoroughly studied the past presidencies (specifically Eisenhower to current), and am wondering what "crap" you are needing to clean up.    Specifically, please tell me WHAT Bush did to clean up or reverse Clinton initiatives and policies?    You seem to want to slam on a president who got caught in a scandal, and STILL ended up with a higher approval rating than your beloved Reagan.   You seem to be a bit off in fact.

[QUOTE=VIP KING;202015]I find it funny that you think this is all the fault of Bush, and granted all politicians have their flaws in some ways or another. However, if it wasn't for 8 years of the scandalist office of Clinton, we wouldn't be in this predicament and we wouldn't have to be cleaning up the crap from our oh so famous past president.
 
And I'm happy for you and your sucess, if you enjoy working your ass off and dishing out your money to the lazy, more power to you. As a matter of fact then, let me forward you my address so I can collect directly from you the source.
 
Oh wait, let me guess, you're not willing to Paypal or just write me a check for money are you?[/QUOTE]


It is all the fault of Bush and his staff.  The only thing that needed to be cleaned up when Clinton left office was Ms. Lewinsky's infamous lil blue dress.   The reason we are in this predicament is because of Bush's bs policies and the war that we never had to fight.  I actually feel bad for Obama.  He is going to get the country at such a bad standing, its gonna take more than just 1 term to turn this country back the way it was when Clinton left office.

[QUOTE=Brandicus;201971]No offense taken brotha, I was just trying to see where you were coming from.

I just voted! I will not reveal who for though, Id rather not be judged for who i am as a person because of my political views.

anis you ready to shoot up some fools tonight?!?! (virtually of course)[/QUOTE]

hey what time are you gonna get on?  im down to psuh some ngas wigs back

[quote=RaCinStylez;202026]It is all the fault of Bush and his staff.  The only thing that needed to be cleaned up when Clinton left office was Ms. Lewinsky's infamous lil blue dress.   The reason we are in this predicament is because of Bush's bs policies and the war that we never had to fight.  I actually feel bad for Obama.  He is going to get the country at such a bad standing, its gonna take more than just 1 term to turn this country back the way it was when Clinton left office.[/quote]

SERIOUSLY!!

"scandalist office of Clinton"  PLEASE!  I'll take a president who lies about extra-marital affairs to try and protect his marriage ANY DAY over a president who lies about EVERYTHING and has taken the country straight DOWN the drain.  When Bush took office, PREMIUM unleaded gas was 1.15 a gallon.  Who's family is in business with Bin Laden's? OHHH RIGHT!  BUSH's family is!  Who's family is getting richer and richer off oil?  OHHH RIGHT!  BUSH's family that's who.  Seems like an obvious conflict of interest.

[COLOR="Red"]Ignorance[/COLOR] in [COLOR="Blue"]08![/COLOR]

I'm glad I didn't waste my time reading that and only just cleaned up the coding for you vip king.  What made you choose that screen name btw?

I Voted Today ... :dance:

[COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][COLOR=white]

THE USGA WOULD LIKE TO INFORM ALL GOLFERS

There is a possibility of MAJOR rule changes to the game of golf, this
may occur sometime after November 4.
This is only a preview as the complete rule book is being written now. 

Here are a couple of basic changes. 

Golfers with handicaps: 

- below 10 will have their green fees increase by 35%
- between 11 and 18 will see no increase in green fees
- above 18 will play for free and even get a check from the club/course
played 

The $ amount put in for bets will be as follows: 

-for handicaps below 10 an additional $10 -between 11 and 18 no
additional amount -above 18 you will receive the total amount in the pot
and you do not even have to play. 

The term gimme putt will be changed to entitlement and will be used as
follows:
-handicaps below 10, no entitlements
-handicaps above 11 to 17, entitlements for putter length putts
-handicaps above 18, if on green, no need to ever putt, just pick it up 

These entitlements are intended to bring about fairness in scoring so
that the final scores of all players will be about the same. 

In addition, a Player will be limited to a max of one birdie and/or six
pars, any excess must be given to those fellow players who have not yet
scored a birdie or par. Only after all players have received a birdie or
par from the player making the birdie or par, can that Player begin to
count his score again. 

The current USGA handicap system will be used for the above purposes but
the term "net score" will be available only for scoring those players
with handicaps 18 and above. 

This is intended to "redistribute" the success of winning by making sure
that in every competition the above 18 handicap players will post only
"net score" against every other player's gross score. 

These new Rules are intended to CHANGE the game of golf. 

Golf must be about Fairness Only, it should have nothing to do with
Ability.
[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

Now that you've copy and pasted an email with a terrible analogy, do you have any knowledge to put forth yourself Burgy?  

Let us focus on ability if you want.  Ability to run this government is DEFINITELY in the favor of Obama this election.

[quote=F.L.S.;202034]SERIOUSLY!!
 
"scandalist office of Clinton" PLEASE! I'll take a president who lies about extra-marital affairs to try and protect his marriage ANY DAY over a president who lies about EVERYTHING and has taken the country straight DOWN the drain. When Bush took office, PREMIUM unleaded gas was 1.15 a gallon. Who's family is in business with Bin Laden's? OHHH RIGHT! BUSH's family is! Who's family is getting richer and richer off oil? OHHH RIGHT! BUSH's family that's who. Seems like an obvious conflict of interest.[/quote]
 
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Seriously, do I really need to go there? Are you really this ill informed?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Since we are on the semi subject of this war and how it’s all of Bush’s fault, as you wish let me make it simple and state only a small fraction of Clinton’s neglect for this country well being.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Let’s start by the lack of concern or action to take against Bin Laden when he was clearly informed of Bin Laden’s intentions against America. So rather then be on the offensive with terrorism, let’s instead commit scandalous acts while in office. By the way in order to prevent the effects of terrorism, you have to stand the part of being on the offensive, not sit around and wait for shit to happen to you. You’ll notice this as the current state we’re in now, when the go ahead to take full offensive action throughout the middle east was given, it has resulted in less terrorist bombings, actions, and victory over time. However, then again that would be considered being a war monger or a right wing nut if you actually tried to prevent a terrorist act by taking an offensive stand. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]So, in turn because of his lack to take action, we now have the 9/11 attacks. As a result, Bush has had one of the largest attacks on US soil to deal with, not an easy thing to deal with within his first term, and along with all the other things that needed to be addressed in this country.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#ffffff]And although Bush is not perfect (what politician is), he has certainly had more on his plate then Clinton.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]And Clinton was voted to be the better of presidents or had a higher approval rating then Reagan? By whom was this poll taken from, the ignorant and blind who voted Clinton into office? [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Here is a little something you might benefit from:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[URL="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1466469/posts"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#606420]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1466469/posts[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[URL="http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/5/153637.shtml"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#606420]http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/5/153637.shtml[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]

[quote=elpresidente;202035][COLOR=red]Ignorance[/COLOR] in [COLOR=blue]08![/COLOR]
 
I'm glad I didn't waste my time reading that and only just cleaned up the coding for you vip king. What made you choose that screen name btw?[/quote]
 
 
Well, your choice. And I PM'd you the answer to your question.
 
Not sure what you mean about coding, hope didn't erase anything but I don't take you to be that kind of person.

[quote=ScottyTuned;202046]Now that you've copy and pasted an email with a terrible analogy, do you have any knowledge to put forth yourself Burgy? 
 
Let us focus on ability if you want. Ability to run this government is DEFINITELY in the favor of Obama this election.[/quote]
 
 
ummmm, are you refering to my Stanford Education.......my 32 years of age.....my understanding of Financial Markets......My owning of my own business.....or my grasp on the fact that these are the two WORST candidates in decades and that the american people are probably going to vote in the most UNQUALIFIED candidate in the History of modern day presidency. What's really sad is that this election, more than any one before it, should have sparked a reform for a 3rd party. 
 
 
You DO NOT live in a democracy. We have 1 or the other, not real choice. The american populous does not even determine the president. 
 
So excuse me if I have been poking fun in my posts, but I was hoping that through a little humor people would wake up and see that we may have a president that doesn't believe in the fundamentals of america, has ties to terroist entities, and believes in Socialism....
 
If that doesn't scare you then thats just sad..........
 
I know that Palin is a joke and that is why McCain/Palin does NOT get my vote, but Obama and anyone short of God himself won't get mine either.

Bin Ladin is in Afghanistan, NOT IRAQ!!  ...  so then why did we have to go to war in IRAQ?   You know Bin Ladin is still out there...  all Bush did when he heard the news on 9-11 was this go to his ranch and play with his dogs.

THE ONLY REASON WE WENT TO WAR WAS TO GET OIL CONTROL IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AND MAKE THE POCKETS OF BUSH AND HIS BUDDIES FATTER.

This is getting alittle steamy in here.  Might i remind everyone staff included to keep their hats on and express their views with the respect and dignity we all deserve, regardless of our political views.

thanks.

[QUOTE=VIP KING;202049]And although Bush is not perfect (what politician is), he has certainly had more on his plate then Clinton.

And Clinton was voted to be the better of presidents or had a higher approval rating then Reagan? By whom was this poll taken from, the ignorant and blind who voted Clinton into office?[/quote]

More on his plate than Clinton?  Please tell me how.  Clinton has more domestic policies than Bush, and Clinton had more foreign skirmishs; Clinton was just able to make them not as negative (which is ironic since he had Somalia).   There was the Operation Desert Fox, the Battle of Mogadishu, ethnic genocide in Albania, and Arab/Israeli peace talks.  Yes 9/11 happened to G W, but you conveniently forget that the WTC AND the Oklahoma City bombings while Clinton was in office.   I HONESTLY believe that everything that happened to Bush post 9/11 is his own damn fault since they were HIS operations and initiatives (which coincidentally failed).

[QUOTE=burgy;202055]ummmm, are you refering to my Stanford Education.......my 32 years of age.....my understanding of Financial Markets......My owning of my own business.....or my grasp on the fact that these are the two WORST candidates in decades and that the american people are probably going to vote in the most UNQUALIFIED candidate in the History of modern day presidency. What's really sad is that this election, more than any one before it, should have sparked a reform for a 3rd party. 
 
 
You DO NOT live in a democracy. We have 1 or the other, not real choice. The american populous does not even determine the president. 
 
So excuse me if I have been poking fun in my posts, but I was hoping that through a little humor people would wake up and see that we may have a president that doesn't believe in the fundamentals of america, has ties to terroist entities, and believes in Socialism....
 
If that doesn't scare you then thats just sad..........
 
I know that Palin is a joke and that is why McCain/Palin does NOT get my vote, but Obama and anyone short of God himself won't get mine either.[/QUOTE]

Im referring to your political experience and background for knowledge.   You bring forth these really idealistic views (which is understandable since you are economic and not policy based), but realistically it is something different.    How do you realistically expect a third party to form?   Historically our ideologies (dating back to Reagan) have been polarized, partly due to media.   We have a two party system, and it will continue to be that way.   Ideally, a third (or fourth or fifth) party would be sweet.  Not going to happen though.  How many independents in Senate?  Two?  Sanders and Liberman (who are democrats in disguise).     I actually am a person who does not support democracy in the current fashion, as representation is lacking due to the status quo that has been held by politics for so long (which is glad why Obama WILL get elected).   This historically is as absurd as a "fear of communism spread".    Let it go... it's not gonna happen.  You're freaking out and FURTHER POLARIZING.    It's viewpoints that view the democrat party as socialist that make it possible that a third party can't come about.   You associate one with the other in fear.   Terrorist entities?  Give me a break.  Republicans have been holding hands with the Saudi family for years- THAT is scary (as Im sure you know when we talk about world economics).   I respect your opinion, so dont take this as offense.   My background is CONSIDERABLY different from yours though.   I wont play that I know the ins and outs of Keynesian economics, trickle down theory, or anything else, but I dont expect that you have the same background in the scholarship of political action that I have. 


Note: Im not meaning to offend anyone.  Dont take this personal.  This is a scholarly debate.

found this on another site, a great letter to obama..

A letter by Mark A. Gregg:

Dear Mr. Obama,

It is August 30, 2008. My name is Mark Gregg. I am a 50 something conservative white male. I have followed your campaign closely, including the speeches you and others made at the democratic national convention. I am respectfully providing you with seven simple reasons why I could never vote for you. I believe my opinion is shared by many people. While there may not be quite enough to prevent you from becoming president of this nation, I do think there is an awakening to the fact that you are not the messiah that the media and liberal Hollywood entertainers are trying to portray you.

1. I hear your mantra of change, change, change. Yet, you picked a long term, liberal, Washington insider (Joe Biden) to be your running mate. This is NOT change. It is a move that hypocritically refutes the very thing you supposedly stand for. Your campaign then slammed McCain for picking Sarah Palin, apparently, because she is NOT a Washington insider. She is a maverick who cleaned up Alaska's quagmire of political scandals. Which way is it, Barack? Is it okay for you to pick a Washington insider under the mantra of 'change,' but not okay for John McCain to pick a smart, aggressive, reformer?

2. You have the single most liberal voting record in the senate. This indicates to me and others like me that you may very well be an angry black man seeking to punish our country for sins of a different generation. I am not racist. I have some biases just like you and every other human alive. Unlike the democratic party who claims to be for the minority (but their record heavily refutes this), I will give any person who truly needs help, help. I married a 'minority' girl 35 years ago (she is Hispanic) and have seen the evils of prejudice first hand. However, I have also seen my wife and my children and others in her family throw off the veil of self-imposed prejudicial bondage and move ahead. They love our country and do not view themselves any different than I view myself as a citizen of this country. Your lovely wife so disappointed people like me during this campaign when she stated it was the first time she had ever been proud of this country. She apparently never noticed the massive aid we give dozens of other countries. She apparently never noticed the sacrifice of literally 20 million veterans who helped make this country a free nation and helped liberate other nations from brutal dictators such as Adolf Hitler. She apparently does not remember that she attended ivy league universities with scholarship money that ultimately (at least some of it) was paid for by our taxes. This troubles me more than you know. She is an angry black woman who appears to not like her country very much. I don't want her representing me to the rest of the world.

3. You claim Christianity but apparently do not realize that the Bible teaches that he who does not work, does not eat. The Bible does not say or even suggest that he who CANNOT work, should not eat. Yet, your liberal policies reward people who are CAPABLE of working, but CHOOSE to not do so. This bothers me. I know that if you are elected, our taxes will spiral upwards. You should heed the words of Winston Churchill: 'We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.' If I like anything about you, it is your campaign promise to balance the federal budget. Unfortunately, we have heard this a huge number of times from a number of different politicians and we realize that when you energize the very liberal Nancy Pelosi, Robert Byrd, Ted Kennedy, etc, etc, and the many other democrats like them, a balanced budget will never, ever happen on your watch.

4. During your question and answer session with Rick Warren of Saddleback Church your answer concerning the question of where does life begin, stunned me: “Above your pay grade?” Does this mean when something bad happens as President of this nation that you are going to look at your salary to determine if you can respond? I am sorry, but this was the most serious gaffe I have seen you make. Frankly, it shows me that you are pandering in the most obvious manner. You will choose your words not from your heart, but from an agenda that I believe is still hidden from the American people.

5. If anything stands out about you it is probably your appeasement mentality. In this era of rampant, radical Islamic extremism and with the latest stunt pulled by the re-energized Russian government, I am not sure appeasement is healthy. I again revert to the words of Winston Churchill: “An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.” 

6. You and your party tacitly believe that a 13 or 14 year old girl must have the parents’ approval to have the school nurse provide them with a Tylenol when they have a headache at school. Yet, this same girl can become pregnant and the school can skirt her off to a clinic and abort the child in her body without the parents knowing or being notified. This scares the hell out of me. You have two little girls. Would you be upset if this happened to them and you were not informed? Then why do you stand for this? It makes no sense to me.

7. My seventh and final point (for now) is your supporters. I have watched the Hollywood entertainers that support you, systematically embrace Hugo Chavez of Venezuela and others like him. I see the continuous smut and garbage produced by Hollywood, the very people who promote you the most vigorously. It is not a positive point to me and others like me to see these over-paid, bizarre, poor examples of human existence fawn over you and push you and your liberal agenda as hard as they do. The way I see it, when the devil is for you, we should question whether or not we should be against you.

In closing, I just want you to know that you scare me. I cannot vote for you. It is not because of your skin color. It is because these items I've listed and many, many others like them. Do not claim that my dislike for you is race based. It is because I do not feel you have the best interests of this nation at heart.

Respectfully, Mark A. Gregg

Electoral Vote Count
 
Race to 270 to Win.
 
McCain = 135
 
Obama = 207
 
 
 
[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/e8l5p3.jpg[/IMG]
 
:smiley-rofl:- OBAMA WINS!!!

[QUOTE=VIP KING;202051]Well, your choice. And I PM'd you the answer to your question.
 
Not sure what you mean about coding, hope didn't erase anything but I don't take you to be that kind of person.[/QUOTE]
There is font coding for color size and font type...hence the reason it is so BOLD.  Could you please NOT do that in your posts?  I know you can as not all your posts come up that way.  It's as if you cut and pasted your response from somewhere else?

You're correct, I wouldn't delete part of your response..i only removed the font codes.  Which you just did again above in the [SIZE="3"][FONT="Book Antiqua"][B]"Seriously, do I really need to go there?" [/B][/FONT][/SIZE]post.

[QUOTE=phrosttz0;202088]found this on another site, a great letter to obama..

A letter by Mark A. Gregg:

Dear Mr. Obama,

[/QUOTE]

Well stated.

[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/20f2u5w.jpg[/IMG]
:smiley-rofl::dance::dance::smiley-rofl:
 
YES WE DID!!!!

Yay!  Making it happen!   Now we can see if he comes thru on his change.   I have positive hopes if nothin else!

Woot woot!!!!

congratulations obama, we've given you the power i just hope your smart enough to use it. only time will tell...

Can I say I told you so??

oh-bah-mah...

i have a feeling theres gonna be more shit talking here...lol

Obama continues to wreck McCain. Current count: 306 to 145 (according to CNN.)

But props to McCain who fought toe-to-toe with Obama all the way.

We need to open this thread up in one year.  Anyone have any predictions of how the USA will be a year from now?

Chris

I'm moving to CANADA!!!

I Predict Gas Prices Fall Back Down to $1.00 
 
Before Bush was Prez Gas Prices was Around $1.00
 
 
:dance:

I don't think so...
 
I think 'war on terrorism' is going away finally. 
 
Hopefully he can turn the country around. Focus on home, before you focus everywhere else.

congrats to Obama.  I think this country needed a change.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/lobotomysurvivor/obama-combo.jpg[/IMG] 
 
 
:smiley-rofl:CHANGE :dance:

[QUOTE=Caoboy;202141]I don't think so...
 
I think 'war on terrorism' is going away finally. 
 
Hopefully he can turn the country around. Focus on home, before you focus everywhere else.[/QUOTE]

I dont think so, I would go as planned and even if it was any other next Presedient

The fact that American has support Israel due to the AIPAC which also dosed Obama and McCain campiange I dont think Obama view of the middle east is going to change anything or could be even worse.

I believe by the end of 4 year people would be really disappointed of Obama

[QUOTE=eazy_mas;202181]
I believe by the end of 4 year people would be really disappointed of Obama[/QUOTE]

Explain said theory...

[QUOTE=elpresidente;202182]Explain said theory...[/QUOTE]

people are expecting too much and he has only his words to offer.

Obama is charismatic but his explaination on some of the things doesnt make sense.

He is not specific with his things and he is planning to bomb Pakistan and dont expect him to take the troops back he is going to bring more troops to Afganistan instead of Iraq which is a common sense.

[QUOTE=eazy_mas;202181]
I believe by the end of 4 year people would be really disappointed of Obama[/QUOTE]


X2. People will expect him to change everything in a short period of time, and i dont think 4 years is enough.

[QUOTE]He is not specific with his things and he is planning to bomb Pakistan[/QUOTE]

uhm...WAT?  His "things"?  Hahaha..wow.  Great research, you win the prize.

I just LOL'd..like seriously.

Even Obama stated 4 years wasn't enough, thank you Captain Obvious.

lol @you win the prize. 

fkn mike.

Cutting gov't spending is something needed.

The 'war' is something that is something that needs to be scaled down drastically, then pulled out of. 

Win-Win situation here.

well at the end of the day it not what the politcians say but what he does.

Most of thing Obama just done it only promise and it is not even on paper.

He is more celebrity given that many guy in hollywood supported him.

Many people didnt vote for McCain because of Bush Jr. and Obama mentioned it alot indirectly 

As for the middle east forget it he is the same as McCain and Bush expect less aggressive stance toward the arab.

As a person who is living in the region no president could make peace and not even Obama liberal though when he is smoking pot with Ghandi along side him from the dead will it ever achieve.  His stance is more pro-Israel which means anti-arab. The doesnt have neatural stance in it.

Anyway discussing politics is abit senstive to many. and nobody is going to change on and another view.

But people are expecting Obama to change thing drastically and make world peace

[QUOTE=Caoboy;202198]Cutting gov't spending is something needed.

The 'war' is something that is something that needs to be scaled down drastically, then pulled out of. 

Win-Win situation here.[/QUOTE]

but if some of you policy is invovle with people who made you reach there is something else.

Another thing there is alliance agreement if for example North Korean bombed Japan then America should interven if it didnt it will lose it alliance.

[QUOTE=eazy_mas;202201]well at the end of the day it not what the politcians say but what he does.

Most of thing Obama just done it only promise and it is not even on paper.

He is more celebrity given that many guy in hollywood supported him.

Many people didnt vote for McCain because of Bush Jr. and Obama mentioned it alot indirectly 

As for the middle east forget it he is the same as McCain and Bush expect less aggressive stance toward the arab.

As a person who is living in the region no president could make peace and not even Obama liberal though when he is smoking pot with Ghandi along side him from the dead will it ever achieve.  His stance is more pro-Israel which means anti-arab. The doesnt have neatural stance in it.

Anyway discussing politics is abit senstive to many. and nobody is going to change on and another view.

But people are expecting Obama to change thing drastically and make world peace[/QUOTE]

Well obviously it does land on what he does.  Fortunately for him, he is blessed to have a strong Congress that can back him and will willingly support him (assuming the executive/legislative power struggle doesnt get out of hand).  Your statements confuse me, as they are very incomplete, but Obama actually DIRECTLY referenced W. Bush (not Jr.  he's W)    He has had failed policies that needed to be ended, but McCain supported.   In the end, I am a strong policy isolationist that believes we should not occupy foreign lands at all.   I chose Obama because I honestly believe he will get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan (both losing cases no matter how long we stay).   I would LOOOOVE to pull funding out of Israel but there are FAR reaching political implications there- something that will take time to fix.  It would be ideal though, just not realistic.   Things will take time; even Barack knows that.   I do think a few people will be surprised however with how fast a Democrat Congress can get initiatives passed through, especially when they have full presidential support and no divided government.  (something that has hindering domestic policy for a while).

As for alliances, they are more loose than you would think.  In such a case of Japan and NK, I honestly believe we would wait for the UN vote to come thru before doing anything (however formal or informal it would really be).    I dont think NK is that extreme right now though, nor is any country with nuclear weapons.  Much like there is a democratic peace theory, I believe there is a nuclear peace theory that guides us and directs.   Even the most extreme and wild regimes respect it (at least so far).

Scotty

[QUOTE=ScottyTuned;202208]Well obviously it does land on what he does.  Fortunately for him, he is blessed to have a strong Congress that can back him and will willingly support him (assuming the executive/legislative power struggle doesnt get out of hand).  Your statements confuse me, as they are very incomplete, but Obama actually DIRECTLY referenced W. Bush (not Jr.  he's W)    He has had failed policies that needed to be ended, but McCain supported.   In the end, I am a strong policy isolationist that believes we should not occupy foreign lands at all.   I chose Obama because I honestly believe he will get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan (both losing cases no matter how long we stay).   I would LOOOOVE to pull funding out of Israel but there are FAR reaching political implications there- something that will take time to fix.  It would be ideal though, just not realistic.   Things will take time; even Barack knows that.   I do think a few people will be surprised however with how fast a Democrat Congress can get initiatives passed through, especially when they have full presidential support and no divided government.  (something that has hindering domestic policy for a while).

As for alliances, they are more loose than you would think.  In such a case of Japan and NK, I honestly believe we would wait for the UN vote to come thru before doing anything (however formal or informal it would really be).    I dont think NK is that extreme right now though, nor is any country with nuclear weapons.  Much like there is a democratic peace theory, I believe there is a nuclear peace theory that guides us and directs.   Even the most extreme and wild regimes respect it (at least so far).

Scotty[/QUOTE]

Sometimes it not good idea to give one party full power. Because now any idea for the party it will go quick without anyone critizing or stopping it.

As for Israel issue Obama made it very clear
[url]http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/#onisrael[/url]

This issue make Isreal full support to attack any of it countries beside it which could be conflict on interst with GCC countries who invest alot in America.

[quote=ScottyTuned;202075]Im referring to your political experience and background for knowledge. You bring forth these really idealistic views (which is understandable since you are economic and not policy based), but realistically it is something different. How do you realistically expect a third party to form? Historically our ideologies (dating back to Reagan) have been polarized, partly due to media. We have a two party system, and it will continue to be that way. Ideally, a third (or fourth or fifth) party would be sweet. Not going to happen though. How many independents in Senate? Two? Sanders and Liberman (who are democrats in disguise). I actually am a person who does not support democracy in the current fashion, as representation is lacking due to the status quo that has been held by politics for so long (which is glad why Obama WILL get elected). This historically is as absurd as a "fear of communism spread". Let it go... it's not gonna happen. You're freaking out and FURTHER POLARIZING. It's viewpoints that view the democrat party as socialist that make it possible that a third party can't come about. You associate one with the other in fear. Terrorist entities? Give me a break. Republicans have been holding hands with the Saudi family for years- THAT is scary (as Im sure you know when we talk about world economics). I respect your opinion, so dont take this as offense. My background is CONSIDERABLY different from yours though. I wont play that I know the ins and outs of Keynesian economics, trickle down theory, or anything else, but I dont expect that you have the same background in the scholarship of political action that I have. 
 
 
Note: Im not meaning to offend anyone. Dont take this personal. This is a scholarly debate.[/quote]
 
You say that I am further Polarizing.....what about you and the statements you just made about a 3rd party. I hate to break it to you but it has already happened in this countries history....look into it. It won't happen only because people like you say it can't. If the US population really cared enough it would happen very quickly.
 
Terrorist relations.....nice sweeping reply, still no one has explained to date. The Republican party even hushed Hilarry about it.....nice.
 
Your making a blanket statement that all Saudi's are bad....yes there are Saudi's that are, but not all of them, so should we not have any relationships with any of them??
 
 
and to give you some background, I come from a working class family in Cleveland Oh. My grandfather came to this country with almost nothing, he lost his hand in a factory press (never sued or made a dime off it), my grandmother worked in a hospital gift shop. Both my parents teach in the inner city of Cleveland. My brother has a terminal genetic disease and is also a teacher. I was born and raised a Democrat. I went to argueably the most liberal school on the face of the planet. I voted Democrat or independent in every previous election. I would have voted for Hillary over either of these two candidates. But Obama is not qualified to run this country. 
 
This is not about my politics DEM vs REP. Its about the candidate.

[QUOTE=burgy;202219]You say that I am further Polarizing.....what about you and the statements you just made about a 3rd party. I hate to break it to you but it has already happened in this countries history....look into it. It won't happen only because people like you say it can't. If the US population really cared enough it would happen very quickly.
 
Terrorist relations.....nice sweeping reply, still no one has explained to date. The Republican party even hushed Hilarry about it.....nice.
 
Your making a blanket statement that all Saudi's are bad....yes there are Saudi's that are, but not all of them, so should we not have any relationships with any of them??
 
 
and to give you some background, I come from a working class family in Cleveland Oh. My grandfather came to this country with almost nothing, he lost his hand in a factory press (never sued or made a dime off it), my grandmother worked in a hospital gift shop. Both my parents teach in the inner city of Cleveland. My brother has a terminal genetic disease and is also a teacher. I was born and raised a Democrat. I went to argueably the most liberal school on the face of the planet. I voted Democrat or independent in every previous election. I would have voted for Hillary over either of these two candidates. But Obama is not qualified to run this country. 
 
This is not about my politics DEM vs REP. Its about the candidate.[/QUOTE]

Why doe independents are not competitive as DEM or REP?

[QUOTE=ClutchOne;202133]I Predict Gas Prices Fall Back Down to $1.00 
 
Before Bush was Prez Gas Prices was Around $1.00
 
 
:dance:[/QUOTE]



do your really believe this?? wow..

^^Seriously?  :pat:
 
 
[quote=eazy_mas;202226]Why doe independents are not competitive as DEM or REP?[/quote]
 
What???
 
 
Now that it is said and done though, I hope that Obama keeps his word and that he leads this Country in a new and better direction!

Crushing defeat.  McCain's defeat speech was excellent, I always respected the guy, just don't want him to be president and DEFINITELY didn't want Palin in the White House by any stretch or possiblity.  Obama's speech was incredible, the guy is amazing, and I'll admit, I got watery eyes, nothing rolling down my cheeks or anything but definitely watery.  The man is inspirational, and by the absoloutely smashing victory, it's obvious people want change.  Wow, we all witnessed a major historical event last night, I can't wait till January now.

[quote=phrosttz0;202229]do your really believe this?? wow..[/quote]
 
Yes I Believe ...
 
Here is an Audio Response.
 
[URL]https://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=6677830&q=hi[/URL]
 
:thelaw:

Awesome post made by a mod over on HT. I couldn't have said it any better: 
 
 
[quote=Knightsport]
 
 
I am seeing a ton of people being honest with themselves for the first time in a long while.
 
It's okay. Take a deep breath. 
 
He's not going to put Asanti 22's on Air Force One. Nor on Marine One.
He's not going to have Jay-Z perform "Hail to the Chief."
Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles is not going to cater the inaugural dinner.
Islam is not going to be the National Religion.
His acceptance speech will not be in ebonics.
Yes you are pathetic for entertaining thoughts of joy for an assassination. 
Just as the Anti-Bush were. Get your mind right.
 
Put away all your preconceived notions of imminent doom and latent racism and let it go. 
 
Let it all go. 
 
I see it in every thread.
 
Every post.
 
Every covert PM I get.
 
I'm not calling any of you out. 
 
Just be honest. 
 
We all see it.
[/quote]
 
:slap: - Stop It.

[quote=Caoboy;202141]I don't think so...
 
I think 'war on terrorism' is going away finally. 
 
Hopefully he can turn the country around. Focus on home, before you focus everywhere else.[/quote]
yeah, you are right. and while we concentrate on just US....all the terrorist nations will have time to recoup and hopefully you will be in the next 9/11

[quote=F.L.S.;202239]Crushing defeat.  McCain's defeat speech was excellent, I always respected the guy, just don't want him to be president and DEFINITELY didn't want Palin in the White House by any stretch or possiblity.  Obama's speech was incredible, the guy is amazing, and I'll admit, I got watery eyes, nothing rolling down my cheeks or anything but definitely watery.  The man is inspirational, and by the absoloutely smashing victory, it's obvious people want change.  Wow, we all witnessed a major historical event last night, I can't wait till January now.[/quote]
too bad he cant talk without a teleprompter or notes.
but neither can McCain.

Which is why i didnt vote, both suck

then u should have voted 3rd party & show'em what's up.....

why? My vote wont even count unless its a close election, then the mailed in votes count. Overseas military gets the shit end of hte stick

[QUOTE=Yokotas13;202255]too bad he cant talk without a teleprompter or notes.
but neither can McCain.

Which is why i didnt vote, both suck[/QUOTE]

who you will vote?

How do you get people to boycott vote so politican reaval more of themselves.

Obama is more well spoken than McCain and he is much cooler doesnt react hastly.

Here an intersting thing if you think Obama is not going toward war:
[url]http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/IsraelFactSheet.pdf[/url]

Anyway any Rep. was going to lose lose sitaution.

[quote=Yokotas13;202255]too bad he cant talk without a teleprompter or notes.
but neither can McCain.
 
Which is why i didn't vote, both suck[/quote]
 
 
If you didn't Vote, you should not Complain... :slap:
 
Video Response.
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY[/URL]
 
[I]Its TIME to Stop Doubting and Start Dreaming.[/I]

easy_mas, how will you go to say that bills wont get criticized or stopped?    Following the election, you'll see that Dems did not hit the 60 fillibuster-proof Senate.   Plus, everything is still run through Robert's Rules of Order, so I really wouldn't worry about a Repub not getting their say in to criticize. 

Burgy, I personally could care less about a third party for my vote, so I have no problem saying it won't form.  I'm not exactly sure how I am perpetuating the two-party system however, aside from a few forum people reading this.   It is not like I'm going to throw my vote away to the Green Party, one that doesn't hold the majority of my ideals.  I'm not a libertarian either.   I'm a registered democrat, because that fits ME best (not the other smaller parties). If you've ever studied political thought in class, you'll realize that I'm being a functional realist in siding with my party.   I'm sorry if you think that me voting Democrat creates a two-party system, politically it is not true since are other factors involved.   I might have jumped the gun earlier, because I believe the ONLY way that this will ever change is if there is spending caps put on campaigns (and shorter campaign periods).  This would create an expedited process that leads to "more real" candidates IMHO, ones that won't have to have a ton of capital (ones possibly from a third party).  One thing to consider is when it takes 400 million to run an election, it shows that you need to start affiliating with a "side" really quick otherwise you're going to get outspent, out campaigned, and never really be a viable third party candidate.    

What do you want to say about terrorist relations?   His foreign policy guy? The washed up Polish guy under Jimmy Carter?   Wright?  A freaking preacher?   Ayers?  A freaking teacher?   I'm sorry, but throw up some more substantive "terrorists."    Ayers is the only one with past experience that I think you can touch, and that was 40 years ago when he was radical.   Think about it: would an accredited school, a prestigious one, reallllllllllly hire someone who is that off the wall?   Use common sense, don't attack it.    

As for Saudi Arabia, I'm not talking about individual Saudi's because I have friends who are and have talked IN LENGTH with them on the topic.   I am talking specifically with the hand-holding of the Saudi royal family, one that is well known to be corrupt and shady when it comes to foreign policy.   I'm talking about the Saudi royal family that has funded terrorist operations in the past, and has used their oil-wielding power over us to get what they want.   In a perfect world- we would not be so indebted to the country, nor would be deal economically with them for oil or any other goods.  It has been long suspected they are still harboring Al-Qaeda members and have not cooperated with us at any length.   It is just a movie, but I highly recommend you watch "The Kingdom".   It has a lot to do with the FBI/Political relations with Saudi Arabia, and gives a sliver of insight into our relationship.
 
 That is a nice story, but I'm talking that we have very different educational emphasis areas.   I think we have a lot of things in common with our personal lives, and I think we have a lot of the same ideals (I was not a Hillary fan however).   I just really have a hard time when people criticize Obama so damn heavily, yet is the least indebted to the political system and can get the most done.   I've seen too many friend lose their lives in this war, I've seen too many people lose their bank accounts in this economy, and I've seen too many uneducated in with our school policy- I honestly believe Obama was one of the few individuals that can change this.

[quote=Yokotas13;202254]yeah, you are right. and while we concentrate on just US....all the terrorist nations will have time to recoup and hopefully you will be in the next 9/11[/quote]

Says the guy who's hiding in Japan. :shrug:

I don't understand why you think that just because some people think this 'war' has gone on long enough, that it's a bad move to pull out. Bush was struggling trying to set a timeline to pull out troops anyways, why not just set one and get out, since that is what they want us to do. 

There has always been terrorism, there always will be. It's a faction, guided by FEAR, hence 'TERROR-ism'. No country will ever be able to stop it from happening. 

Biggest thing we've done this whole war? Killed Saddam Hussein. Sent the main terrorists into hiding. 

That area is too radical, theologically, to be changed. It won't ever happen, until those guys change for themselves. You try to force them one way, they are going to duck back harder into their ways, saying you are trying to take over and control the world, and then hate us more for it. 

Slowly back out, realize it was a defeat, oh I don't know, maybe like VIETNAM, and be done with it! This whole crap has been dragged on just like Vietnam. It will only escalate, and drag our country down more. 

Obama was hard against the war, and kind of softened up a bit to reality that you can't just pull out asap. It'll affect this country as much as it will theirs. So a gradual removal, and just giving assistance, would be best. 

But hey, I don't live in Japan, so I don't know everything.

[QUOTE=Yokotas13;202254]yeah, you are right. and while we concentrate on just US....all the terrorist nations will have time to recoup and hopefully you will be in the next 9/11[/QUOTE]

Just like terrorists are focusing on Switzerland, Poland, France, and England....

Oh wait they're not occupying Arab countries or funding them so they don't have the same worry we do.   Pull out now, and they have no reason to attack.   These groups are not seeking hegemony in our part of the world, they are not seeking the title of international leviathan; they are wanting US to get out of foreign lands that we have NO business being in.   Seems pretty basic- get out, and they don't mess with us.    Let's stop funding Israel and backing them, and we have no issue with other Arabic countries.  Simple as that.  The only interest we have in these countries that we occupy is oil, and if we can find an alternative fuel source(s) than we can stop dealing with them altogether.

[quote=ScottyTuned;202289]Just like terrorists are focusing on Switzerland, Poland, France, and England....
 
Oh wait they're not occupying Arab countries or funding them so they don't have the same worry we do. Pull out now, and they have no reason to attack. These groups are not seeking hegemony in our part of the world, they are not seeking the title of international leviathan; they are wanting US to get out of foreign lands that we have NO business being in. Seems pretty basic- get out, and they don't mess with us. Let's stop funding Israel and backing them, and we have no issue with other Arabic countries. Simple as that. The only interest we have in these countries that we occupy is oil, and if we can find an alternative fuel source(s) than we can stop dealing with them altogether.[/quote]
 
 
I Agree.
 
But wait... Lets Send Aid and Start a War with those who Commit Genocide in Darfur Since they are the REAL "TERROR-ist" 
 
ohh yea- there is no Profit in that war ... :shrug:
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwrxPXvvaCs[/URL]
 
NOW that Obama will be in Office, this Dream may become a Reality.

[quote=ScottyTuned;202289]Just like terrorists are focusing on Switzerland, Poland, France, and England....

Oh wait they're not occupying Arab countries or funding them so they don't have the same worry we do.   Pull out now, and they have no reason to attack.   These groups are not seeking hegemony in our part of the world, they are not seeking the title of international leviathan; they are wanting US to get out of foreign lands that we have NO business being in.   Seems pretty basic- get out, and they don't mess with us.    Let's stop funding Israel and backing them, and we have no issue with other Arabic countries.  Simple as that.  The only interest we have in these countries that we occupy is oil, and if we can find an alternative fuel source(s) than we can stop dealing with them altogether.[/quote]

Um, smart guy.....we weren't in the area of the world when we got attacked.......so yeah.

Yeah, while it may be about oil as well, it's not the only reason. 

As for hiding out in Japan. I go where the USAF tells me to. NO more, NO less. I do what i'm told when i'm told. If i'm told to go launch a plane so it can go drop delta force into a region of iraq/Afghanistan, i do it. If i'm told to scramble to launch a plane to refuel helicopters performing a rescue mission off the coast of Africa...i do it
Both of which i have done among MANY other things
So hiding out in Japan? Hardly. I maintain the health of the Mainland and Okinawan C-130s , plane by plane every two weeks a new one.

remember Katrina, when everyone said relief and Aid were not getting there?  I single handed, with two other members launched 5 aircraft a day working 20 hours, starting 30 minutes after the eye of the storm passed through and was safe to do air drops.  I did that for two months until we went to normal flying.

So you my friend, have NO right to say ANYTHING about what i should be doing or am doing. you haven't earned the right. 

you're slowly but surely pissing me off
btw, since we aren't doing anything "fighting" terror in the middle east.....whens the last time we got attacked on our soil?

Pearl Harbor, the time before that was in the war of 1812. Really Grant, slowly but surely pissing you off gives me no satisfaction, go ahead and be mad all you want over the internet. WE all have our own views, opinions, and thoughts on what should be done, and how we feel things have gone. That is why we vote.

thats not what pisses me off. Everyone has views, but when they mold facts to your liking is when i get pissy

Those were not terrorists acts. they were acts of war. Two different things. 

Just making sure you know you have no right to question where i am or why. ive earned the right to be here.

[quote=ScottyTuned;202284] I honestly believe Obama was one of the few individuals that can change this.[/quote]
 
If that's how you believe, than you are completely right in voting for him. I do not feel that he is the answer, but I don't feel like anyone the Republicans offered were either. As much as you hate when people criticize him i hate it when they blindly follow him. 
 
I commend you because while we feel differently about this one vote, I know that you have not made a blind decision and I will never fault someone for having a conviction that differs from mine as long as they are willing to justify it. I have not walked in your shoes, nor you in mine, so I cannot say that Obama is not the right vote for you.
 
I will say it again, now that he is elected, I hope that he can deliver on his promises and lead this country in a new and better direction.

[quote=Yokotas13;202321]thats not what pisses me off. Everyone has views, but when they mold facts to your liking is when i get pissy
 
[B]Those were not terrorists acts. they were acts of war. Two different things.[/B] 
 
Just making sure you know you have no right to question where i am or why. ive earned the right to be here.[/quote]
 
Tell me then, why are we at war? A war on terrorism? The way you word your response, we had justification to go to war in 1812 and WWII. Since it was a terrorist act, then we shouldn't be at war against terrorists according to your response. 
 
FWIW, I had friends and family in the Marines who went to Iraq. Driving along the roads, mines blowing up in front of their hummers trying to blow them up. They don't want to go back, and said we shouldn't have been there. They said we weren't doing any good being there, and lost lives for no reason.
 
BTW, I wouldn't have made that response personal had you not attacked me in the first place.

we arent at war 
we are in a police action....
again, two different things


i dont care if you make it personal, just have a better point you can back up.
Marines signed up to get shot and blown up. 
So did the army
Navy signed up to be on boats and launch planes, and fire ordinance, among other things
i signed up to what i do to contribute to the fight. 

everyone has their roles, shame people lost their lives, but because they worry about themselves not wanting to go back, and not heeding their core values, doesnt mean shit.  They are less in my eyes.   If you sign the line, you follow without complaining. we are the worlds largest, strongest, and best trained military in the world. with NOTHING but volunteers.

If they tell me im going to iraq when i get back to work on Helos on the front line, imma ask, "When do i need to be ready" 
im here to serve my country so you dont have to. Im here to do my job, next to the other people that do theirs, so you can say the  things you do. Its a shitty line i know, but its 100% true. The attacks on the united states in ANY conlict are a direct attack on our democracy.

what did we do when japan fucked with us? Fucked them up
what did we do when terrorists fucked with us? Fucked them up. Not finding one person doesnt change anything. The actions we have taken, and damaged we imposed on places where terrorists are KNOWN to BE and BREED have directly impeeded their ability to mount another attack. If you knew an 1/8th of what i know goes on first hand through wire taps, intelligence, and other methods in teh middle easy you would be amazed. Unfortunately, i cannot disclose most of it, so you will never know how unsafe you truely are without us where we dont belong.

[IMG]http://i33.tinypic.com/25736rp.jpg[/IMG]'
 
 
:dance::dance::dance::dance:

Police action...just like Vietnam. Hirstory repeating itself?

[QUOTE=burgy;202327]If that's how you believe, than you are completely right in voting for him. I do not feel that he is the answer, but I don't feel like anyone the Republicans offered were either. As much as you hate when people criticize him i hate it when they blindly follow him. 
 
I commend you because while we feel differently about this one vote, I know that you have not made a blind decision and I will never fault someone for having a conviction that differs from mine as long as they are willing to justify it. I have not walked in your shoes, nor you in mine, so I cannot say that Obama is not the right vote for you.
 
I will say it again, now that he is elected, I hope that he can deliver on his promises and lead this country in a new and better direction.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.  I DO think way to many people blindly follow.  The fact that the majority of people vote straight ticket with their parents is scary to me honestly, no matter the issues at hand.   People voted unjustly for both parties this time I believe.  Ill agree on that.  

I do like having these intellectual debates, because you are one of the informed voters of the country.   This is what I appreciate- when someone has their own views, and can accurately defend (no matter what party), which is what you did.   I commend you on that.   That is the joy of politics for me.  Me and you can differ in reasons for voting, but  I still respect you greatly along with your opinion.   This is what makes politics fun, talking about it :)


As for Yokota, you say we werent in the area?   You mean we havent been basically occupying Israel since 1970?  You say we didnt intervene in the Iraq-Iran issue of the 80s?  You're saying we didnt go into Afghanistan in 80s either?   We didnt try to save oil rich Kuwait in 90s?   Our intervention in the Middle East (or Arab countries) IS what is hurting us and getting us attacked.   When was the last time Japan had a terrorist attack of 9/11 proportions?    Yet again, I dont see them sitting at the edge of an oil rich country waiting to instill a government.    Much like we are not going to attack a Christian nation, neither are we going to let other ones pushed around- theyre doing the same thing with the resources they have, whether it be suicide bombers or public killings.

Also, Grant, wasn't there a terrorist attack on the WTC in the 80's? Or was that domestic terrorism. 
 
How many other world powers have bases in other countries as well? Aside from Embassies with military protecting the Embassy.

[quote=Caoboy;202345]Police action...just like Vietnam. Hirstory repeating itself?[/quote]
two scenarios
two needs

you suck at military stuff

[quote=Caoboy;202352]Also, Grant, wasn't there a terrorist attack on the WTC in the 80's? Or was that domestic terrorism. 
 
How many other world powers have bases in other countries as well? Aside from Embassies with military protecting the Embassy.[/quote]
cant tell you off hand
but i do know the french have an airbase in africa

[quote=ScottyTuned;202350]


As for Yokota, you say we werent in the area?   You mean we havent been basically occupying Israel since 1970?  You say we didnt intervene in the Iraq-Iran issue of the 80s?  You're saying we didnt go into Afghanistan in 80s either?   We didnt try to save oil rich Kuwait in 90s?   Our intervention in the Middle East (or Arab countries) IS what is hurting us and getting us attacked.   When was the last time Japan had a terrorist attack of 9/11 proportions?    Yet again, I dont see them sitting at the edge of an oil rich country waiting to instill a government.    Much like we are not going to attack a Christian nation, neither are we going to let other ones pushed around- theyre doing the same thing with the resources they have, whether it be suicide bombers or public killings.[/quote]
we were not in the iraq/afghanistan area during WTC occurances. 

japan isnt a superpower. they are a surrendering nation. they have no offensive military, only a self defense force.

I really do applaud you guys on not getting out of hand with this. but all the times we have been in the persian gulf, except for now, has been for NATO allies. 
We do not occupy israel. they have one of hte best militaries of the world. they are an ally, just like any other nation, and we have a base there, just like most of our other allies, greece, italy, germany, etce tc etc

Gas prices seeing 1.00/gal? No.
 
Unleaded gasoline (per gallon)
$1.4244
$1.5327
-$0.1083
-1.17%
-42.81%

 
That's the current price unleaded gasoline is (trading) at. There's no way it will ever be below trading prices.

god i wish it would be
im still paying 406 from AAFES

Your right we weren't there specifically.   We ARE occupying Arab nations however, and THAT is what is bothersome for so many terrorists.   Much like we have NATO for allies, such does the Arab League for the countries that comprise it.  You mess with one, expect a backlash.   Much like if the Netherlands were attacked, we would assist. As long as we are pro-Israeli and anti-Palestine, we will have dissenters within that Arab League.  

You really need to work on foreign policy and relations if you honestly believe that Israel has a strong military on their own.   You're referring  to a fairly stable country (in comparison to most that we give to) that in 2004 received the 2nd most economic funding from the US (which is most per capita, even over Iraq).   Does that seem really odd to you?  You don't think we basically occupy that country thru economic means?   You don't have a problem with sending that much money to a country that pulls down almost the exact same median income as a person here?   We are funding, and we occupy through those means.     We basically are the military, when we give them weapons, including nuclear capabilities.    We are trying to keep them as an ally by paying them off in military support.  Be realistic- Any Arab country knows that they cannot mess with Israel without getting us.  Their military might as well be our military.    The most ironic part about this is all, since you dropped so many names of countries that we also associated, is that Israel is actually not one of the NATO members.  They are instead a facade of a military that is an extension of US power.

their economic condition has NOTHING to do with the strength of their military. they have numerous of our f15s and f16s, with HIGHLY skilled piliots. 

dont have to be a nato ally to be there....
regardless, they help us and we help them. israel has troops and figters operating in a small part in the "War" on terror. what else can you ask for?

but seriously though, they are a decent military compared to other countries of their stature. EVERYONE must serve...its part of the fun. plus there some serious hotties in there

Plus they are active in dealing with known Palestinian  terrorists on a regular basis..

National military service is mandatory for [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish"]Jewish[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze"]Druze[/URL] men and Jewish women over the age of 18, although exceptions may be made on religious, physical or psychological grounds (see [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profile_21"]Profile 21[/URL]).
 Men serve three years in the IDF, while women serve two. The IDF allowed women who volunteer for several combat positions to serve for three years because combat soldiers must undergo a lengthy period of training. Women in other positions, such as programmers, who require lengthy training time may also serve three years. Women in most combat positions are also required to serve as reserve for several years after their dismissal from regular service.

[IMG]http://iraq.billhobbs.com/archives/untitledIsrael.bmp[/IMG]


they arent a formidable opponent to US, but they have shot down other countries figters numerous times

Their economics says a lot about the military.  If they are financially set, why are we sending BILLIONS of aid over there?   That is what I'm looking an answer for.    The fundamental difference between your outlook on a "strong military" are in the definition.   You're talking about how many fighters they can shoot down from other countries; I'm talking about how they can sustain on their own without our explicit and ever-growing help.

Well, after going from $4 a gallon to almost $2 a gallon here in the STL...I'm pretty ecstatic about the gas prices.  Haha.

[quote=ScottyTuned;202407]Their economics says a lot about the military.  If they are financially set, why are we sending BILLIONS of aid over there?   That is what I'm looking an answer for.    The fundamental difference between your outlook on a "strong military" are in the definition.   You're talking about how many fighters they can shoot down from other countries; I'm talking about how they can sustain on their own without our explicit and ever-growing help.[/quote]
which are different things totally

you are trying to grasp at some concept for no reason. At no time did i say they were independent or self sustainable.  they are efficient at what they are trained to do, and do it over and over proving it

[B][COLOR="Red"]NOT MY ARTICLE, AUTHOR WISHES TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS[/COLOR][/B]

With or without popular vote.... he was pre-chosen to win. Because he is backed by Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Commission, Center on Foreign Relations, Skull and Bones, and I'm sure the rest of the sack of shit traitors of the Republic and other arcane organizations. Obama is part of the New World Order that Bush Senior announced during his speech as president in 1991 and others are preaching today.


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSUHLhMdK84[/url] <--- Part 1

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPbHDCet1BI[/url] <--- Part 2

While you all are regurgitating the same exact lines and words burned into your heads like "change" and "yes we can". Remember that Hitler was elected to "save" and "change" Germany. Before he became the infamous man we know him as today he was loved by the people. Hitler was even "Man of the Year" in Time Magazine in 1939. On February 27, of 1933 Hitler sent a henchman, Hermann Göring, to engineer an event known as the Reichstag (parliament) fire. The Reichstag building burned in Germany and was blamed on an external threat to go to war. Soon after there was a law was passed called the "Enabling Act". Similiar to our "Patriot Act" which Obama will not repeal among other controversial bills signed that destroy our rights. Germany then went on a spree of preemptive wars, spied on German citizens, created a force called SS, started Genocide and the rest is history.And remember this when shit hits the fan.


Obama equals Hitler to me. Hitler was Austrian born, not a natural born German but he became Fuhrer. Like Hitler, Obama is not a natural born citizen of the country he is elected to lead. He was born in Kenya despite what corporate media might suggest. And remember that the U.S. Constitution states that you have to be a natuaral citizen of the United States to be president. Like Hitler had his swastika symbol to recognize the Nazi party, Obama has his own symbol to know him by. Hitler had his SS, Obama calls for a civilian national security force that is strong, well armed and well funded.


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXBbCn2K7bE[/url]

Now on to engineered events... Biden guaranteed an international crisis within six months of Obama's term. Colin Powell said a crisis will occur on 21st or 22nd of January. Are these people absolutely crazy or are they becoming absolutely brave? If something happens where lives are hurt, wouldn't it be an obligation as a sentient and caring human being to disclose this information on what they know to the world? And if something happens to the American people on American soil, they will be held accountable for their silence would be considered treason. Obama supports the entangling alliance with Israel. Expect an engineered event to get into wars with Iran and/or Pakistan. Expect Russia to jump in. Hell, maybe the rest of the world can jump in and we can all have a party. He fooled you into thinking he is anti-war. Let us not forget that history does repeat. Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, Reichstag, 9/11......

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I46PW791KV8[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTwUAAmRuNM[/url]


Why do you think there are luxurious, fully staffed FEMA camps in every state in the U.S.?! They're waiting to exterminate us especially free thinking dissidents or maybe they also expect and will engineer a mass epidemic plague. I'm not kidding. There are camps everywhere, all across the U.S. with noone but the military inside waiting for us.


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od29Ece8OsE[/url]


The NWO wants to create a one world government, one world economy, one world currency. Your messiah, Obama, states he's a citizen of the world. States that the "Constitution is the fundamental flaw of the United States". And remember he doesn't put his hand over his chest during the National Anthem. You think about it.


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRLPG_HplrA[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1bjnkOqT8k[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqHlc2C895c[/url]


But, let's welcome the new Fuhrer and usher of death. figure head and puppet of the New World Order. You all will be pretty disappointed. Maybe we'll find out what the hoopla is all about with 2012.




PS: Americans, please know your 2nd Amendment rights. Get plenty of guns and ammo... AND NEVER NEVER NEVER LET THEM TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY FROM YOU!!!!!!!! THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS IS TO NEVER BE INFRINGED UPON IN THE EVENT THAT FULL BLOWN TYRANNY FROM THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD OCCUR!!!!! THEY DON"T WANT YOU TO FIGHT BACK!!!!!!

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis[/url]

what's ur prediction?   What do you think Obama will do to this country?    Don't all these conspiracy theories come out when things like 9/11 and this happens?

wow.... just wow.. i dont want to start racial slurrs or anything.. but either way. mccain or obama this country is fucked. i was also doing some research on obamas relationship with william ayer... so interesting. and obama doesnt reallie have a birth certificate from kenya. i wonder.

I'm going to merge this into the obama post thats already made.

[quote=tbrack;202528]With or without popular vote.... [/quote]
 
To tag on this: [URL]http://o.bamapost.com/[/URL] Read it through and through, you'll be surprised.
 
And if you dare even remotely believe in this or think about it, you're automatically labeled a right wing religious nut. Sad but true, and I'm not even a practicing or highly religious person.
 
I don't know about some of you, however it's had me thinking this long before he won. Sorry but the guy talks the smooth talk, but his intentions in the long term are from being patriotic to this country...America.
 
I'll say it again, a man who publically defies the very basic fundamental core values and traditions of this country by not putting his hand over his heart even out of respect has an agenda far from supporting the well-being of this country.
 
But what do I know, I'm just a right wing whacko right?

You seriously need to get a clue.  When the National Anthem plays, all your supposed to do is TAKE OFF  YOUR HAT (except Military).

Have you ever seen a NASCAR race? Pretty red-neck all American event right? Well, I have, I do, and been to several (although I go to far more Drag, Indy and F1 races).  When the National Anthem plays, everyone takes off their caps, usually either cross their hands in front by their belt, or hold their hands behind their back with head slightly bowed. NO ONE crosses their heart cause your NOT SUPPOSE TO!  hahahaha.

Here, I guess all these Veterans are un-patriotic with an anti-American agenda cause not but about 1 of them is crossing their heart during, you guessed it, the National Anthem!!  LOLOLOLolol

[IMG]http://www.vofishkill.us/images/Veterans/Image%20No.%2003%20-%20National%20Anthem%20-%20Veterans.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=tbrack;202528]

Obama is not a natural born citizen of the country he is elected to lead. He was born in Kenya despite what corporate media might suggest. [/QUOTE]

The corporate media can support its "suggestion" that obama is a natural born citizen of america. The berg case got thrown out as it held no water.

Can you prove your allegation that he is not a natural born citizen? Yes, PROVE IT!
Produce a birth certificate from kenya! produce travel documentation that show that the mother was not in the states at the time he was conceived! You cant, can you? STFU 
The majority or americans rallied behind obama as he is the change we seeked.

Republicans are right wing conservative Fucks who cannot stand the fact that a minority CAN  be president.

Obama equals Hitler??  BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  I truly hope that was copy and pasted.

Conspiracy theorists...hahahaha.  Man, why not do your OWN research and show us all your findings and stop being sore losers.  If McCain had won I bet you wouldn't be bringing any of this up.  Hahaha...KNOWLEDGE IS KING.  Get some...it's like saying because I'm Sicilian that I'm automatically in the Mafia.

Lets hear some EDUCATED answers.  I want to hear YOUR findings..not someone elses.

[QUOTE=elpresidente;202583]Get some...it's like saying because I'm Sicilian that I'm automatically in the Mafia.
[/QUOTE]

Dude, but you ARE in the mafia!

[quote=eyedea;202582]

Republicans are right wing conservative Fucks who cannot stand the fact that a minority CAN  be president.[/quote]

yeah thats right, cause the white man is holding the minority down.


except.....in most place, caucasion is the minority......

i could care less if the president is purple, i dont liek any of em

Yes the article was copy/pasted but it saddens me you people have such closed minds.  I am not a McCain supporter nor am I an Obama supporter.  Honestly both options were going to send the country down a path I do not wish it to take.  Enough with the bashing and hating, just respect someones opinions and respond as adults.

Wait..wait. You just said that I had a closed mind?  

For cereal?  Like you're not kidding...as in..that wasn't sarcasm or a joke?

Respond like an adult...we are.  No one is fighting.

What you assume to be us having a closed mind would be us thinking YOU have a closed mind (and i think I can say "us" and have it be quite the truth).  Like you said, varying opinions.  But to say we have such closed minds is aPalin...oops, sorry..couldn't resist.  But on the real, I am one of the least closed minded people you'll find.  I base my opinions and feelings on information that I gather for myself.  I don't follow the herd and I usually cut across the grain..it's very apparent in everything I do.  You have to be able to see this.

I'd like for you to explain to me how I have "SUCH A CLOSED MIND"..not just a closed mind, but SUCH a closed mind.  Really..I'll wait patiently.  Then explain how Hitler is like Obama...because this one I REALLY want to hear...

[QUOTE=tbrack;202594]Yes the article was copy/pasted but it saddens me you people have such closed minds.  I am not a McCain supporter nor am I an Obama supporter.  Honestly both options were going to send the country down a path I do not wish it to take.  Enough with the bashing and hating, just respect someones opinions and respond as adults.[/QUOTE]

I am not closed minded when it comes to reality. You can conjure up a conspiracy theory as much as you want. Just be ready to be corrected if you post it on a public forum. 

I will respect your opinion if it holds water. I respect the fact that you think either candidate was not the best option for america, but will not avoid correcting you if I feel that you are spewing BS. Dont equate that to bashing or hating. I am still waiting for the sources of your allegation that Obama is not a natural born citizen.

I bet you either did not read the content of what you posted, or supported it to its full extent and when you were caught in your melodrama, your only response was "no bashing, i copy pasted it, please respond as adults".

MOVE!

Ok well I'm sorry for not putting quotes around the piece.  It is not MY opinions, just thought I would give you the extreme opposite of what you Obama supporters stand for.  I just like stirring up new ideas and new thinking.  And no I will not find you these sources because I have no idea where this dude got them either.

[QUOTE=ClutchOne;202310]I Agree.
 
But wait... Lets Send Aid and Start a War with those who Commit Genocide in Darfur Since they are the REAL "TERROR-ist" 
 
ohh yea- there is no Profit in that war ... :shrug:
 
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwrxPXvvaCs[/URL]
 
NOW that Obama will be in Office, this Dream may become a Reality.[/QUOTE]

well I dont believe in anything is happening there just because Bono and other celebs want to make you believe.

Sudan is making a good progress in it economy without America and with the help of China. This problem is like only came when Sudan had oil and the African Nation troops have been there for long time in Sudan and didnt report anything if there was something.

If he really want to help Africa let him help his father's land Kenya or Zambawia

Really?  You're going to ignore two decades of civil war in the country?  F it, in that case the Holocaust didnt happen nor did the moon walk.   Wake up!   You say theyre progressing in economy, and yes that's true, but it's not on their own.  It's IMF based, which might as well be American.  They still lack a sound infrastructure to build their economy and sustain in the long run.

[QUOTE=Yokotas13;202593]yeah thats right, cause the white man is holding the minority down.


except.....in most place, caucasion is the minority......

i could care less if the president is purple, i dont liek any of em[/QUOTE]

funny cuz i wrote in "purple" on my ballot

[img]http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/136/obamaworldok6.jpg[/img]

[quote=Caoboy;202393]Gas prices seeing 1.00/gal? No.
 
Unleaded gasoline (per gallon)
$1.4244
$1.5327
-$0.1083
-1.17%
-42.81%
 
 
That's the current price unleaded gasoline is (trading) at. There's no way it will ever be below trading prices.[/quote]
 
 
You have to Understand the "WAR" is still going on
 so the Prices Above is a Refection of our Presence in Iraq and etc.
 Once the "WAR" is Over and we withdraw our Troops.
 The Trading Prices will be Reduced around (estimate) 50- 75 cents per Gallon.
 
I dont know if your old enough to Remember but 
BEFORE Pres. George Herbert Walker Bush
 (the First One) Started Operation Desert Shield/Storm (1990-) 
Our Prices for Gas was Under a Dollar. 
I Remember Complaining About Paying Over a Dollar for GAS!!!
"GAS is Too HIGH!! Im Tired of Paying $1.25 a GALLON. !!!!" -:runcoold:
 
Today I Paid $3 Dollars for Premium also Regular was around $2.60
 and Prices are still Dropping. (So. California)
Once we withdraw from  Iraq and "SAFELY" Drill and Manufacture Our
 OWN Supply of Oil we should as Americans See a Drastic Drop in Gas Prices. 
 
Im Expecting this to happen in 3 years we Should see Gas Prices Around $1.50 - $2.00
 
:dance:

[quote=eazy_mas;202619]well I dont believe in anything is happening there just because Bono and other celebs want to make you believe.
 
Sudan is making a good progress in it economy without America and with the help of China. This problem is like only came when Sudan had oil and the African Nation troops have been there for long time in Sudan and didn't report anything if there was something.
 
If he really want to help Africa let him help his father's land Kenya or Zimbawia[/quote]
 
Bono and Obama have meet and they share the same Views so
 the Chance of this Happening is very Possible. 
as you can probably tell by now a Change for the Better will come 
we just have to Unite Rep. and Dems an work as a Nation
 to better improve OUR Economy First then
 we will be in a Better Position to Help Others Around the World.
 
:dance: Obama Won - I'm Still Celebrating.:dance:
 
Check out [URL]http://change.gov/[/URL]

[QUOTE=ClutchOne;202698]Bono and Obama have meet and they share the same Views so
 the Chance of this Happening is very Possible. 
as you can probably tell by now a Change for the Better will come 
we just have to Unite Rep. and Dems an work as a Nation
 to better improve OUR Economy First then
 we will be in a Better Position to Help Others Around the World.
 
:dance: Obama Won - I'm Still Celebrating.:dance:
 
Check out [URL]http://change.gov/[/URL][/QUOTE]

I think he should concentrate on the America economic crisis because he was elected to get ride of it before anything else.

But as for Darfur there are alot of rebel refuges who come from near by countries attack the Sudanese goverment.

And those people are refugee are related to Congo's President which have alot of internal problems in there own country and try to speard it around.

Everybody forgot what is happening to Palestine, Seare Leaon and Kosovo. the injustice is so great with evidence and nobody said a thing.

Filled up the tank tonight with Premium...$2.29/gal.  regular was under $2.....yep, $1.99  I couldn't believe it.  I haven't seen a $1 sign at a gas station in well over 10 years.

Yeah it is pretty nice to see that $1 back up on the signs...

[QUOTE=elpresidente;202818]Filled up the tank tonight with Premium...$2.29/gal.  regular was under $2.....yep, $1.99  I couldn't believe it.  I haven't seen a $1 sign at a gas station in well over 10 years.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying Obama is responsible for this lower price of gas?

I'm sorry...i may have picked up this thread at the wrong point.

Chris

[QUOTE=chrisngo;203020]Are you saying Obama is responsible for this lower price of gas?

I'm sorry...i may have picked up this thread at the wrong point.

Chris[/QUOTE]


Why don't you go back and read then?   Dont post without knowing what is going on.  Just my .02.

[QUOTE=ClutchOne;202698]Bono and Obama have meet and they share the same Views so
 the Chance of this Happening is very Possible. 
as you can probably tell by now a Change for the Better will come 
we just have to Unite Rep. and Dems an work as a Nation
 to better improve OUR Economy First then
 we will be in a Better Position to Help Others Around the World.
 
:dance: Obama Won - I'm Still Celebrating.:dance:
 
Check out [URL]http://change.gov/[/URL][/QUOTE]

Personally I feel that America shouldn't be the world's healer.  We definitely should be helping ourselves first.  The

Many may not know this but Bush helped Africa A LOT!

$4,000,000,000 per year is what his plan has increased to from $1.4 billion in 2001.
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/30/AR2006123000941.html[/url]

and the republicans still lost the black vote!!!

Chris

[QUOTE=chrisngo;203020]
I'm sorry...i may have picked up this thread at the wrong point.

Chris[/QUOTE]
You most certainly did..so I don't really need to say anything other than...

OBAMA WON...thank you...at least there'll be no more "fool me once..shame...shame on you?"..haha.