Newbie about Air Suspension

Dear all members
 
I have question about air bag suspensions. As i have install a set on my car for a week now, I have some problem looking for a solutions:
 
Air compressor - The sound of it is really annoying, since i am driving a wagon, so all the gears were place at the rear and i can hear all the air compressing noise, everytime the pressure drop. I found that is really annoying because the compressing sound is not pretty to hear......... I already place it in a MDF box with the tank and everything, but still nosiy... Is there any solution? Or thats how the cons of the air suspension and i have to live with it.....
 
Ride Height - I don't know if i have a wrong thinking all the time or just my system is not well designed.. I cannot drive at a height that i want. Before i running air suspension setup, i use lower springs. The height is good for what it is, but because i want it lower, so i go for air suspension. But, my system not allow me to drive around at the height like the spring before, i have to raise it up really high like a 4wd to not bottom out the suspension. If i drive at the height like before when i using the spring, it will bottom out. So, Air suspension only for show? only can drop when parked but not allow you to drive low? In that case that means i make my wrong decision? Because i see many photos on internet where ppl running air suspension looks really low and nice.
 
Below is  my Accord Wagon:
[IMG]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/3047202989_483826b4e6.jpg?v=0[/IMG]

Welcome to the forum. Nice accord!!

I am going to attempt to answer your questions. 

1) your only option if you do not like the sound is to install it outside underneath the car. Most of the air compressors are sealed so that they can handle the outside the car (your valves and compressors), so ou do not hear it from inside the car. 

2) it depends on what controller you have. Some of them does that for safety matters.  We need more info in this issue.  What system are you using?

Again,  welcome...

Your solution is....

Time for hydraulics!

1.) No fandangled compressors!

2.) You'll NEVER bottom out. I have over 10 inches of travel in the cylinders, so I never have to worry about extending the cylinders passed their threshold.

Oh yeah, and your car will sit much, much lower than that!

hey OC....

just a side, note...is there a site that I can learn more about hydro's?

[quote=hondaboi;208603]Welcome to the forum. Nice accord!!
 
I am going to attempt to answer your questions. 
 
1) your only option if you do not like the sound is to install it outside underneath the car. Most of the air compressors are sealed so that they can handle the outside the car (your valves and compressors), so ou do not hear it from inside the car. 
 
2) it depends on what controller you have. Some of them does that for safety matters. We need more info in this issue. What system are you using?
 
Again, welcome...[/quote]
 
1.) Ok, i will try to put the compress outside the car. Are they water proof? I am thinking to place behind the rear bumper.
 
2.) I am using Air Zenith except the struct which is locally made. I have a feeling that the struct is the poblem, maybe length too long or something... I don't know, but i have already ask them to make me a short stroke struct. I just dont know how can people running low on air bags without bottom out, I dont know if the air pressure is enough hold a bump while high speed or cornering. 
 
Air suspension is not equal to performance? I have to baby it while driving?
 
P.s The system actually allow me to drive whatever height i want, just that i will have problem of bottom out the suspension, if i not raise it up pretty high.

[quote=hondaboi;208696]hey OC....

just a side, note...is there a site that I can learn more about hydro's?[/quote]

Very, very soon! :dance:

Stay interested!!! :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=vip_accordwagon;208704]1.) Ok, i will try to put the compress outside the car. Are they water proof? I am thinking to place behind the rear bumper.
 
2.) I am using Air Zenith except the struct which is locally made. I have a feeling that the struct is the poblem, maybe length too long or something... I don't know, but i have already ask them to make me a short stroke struct. I just dont know how can people running low on air bags without bottom out, I dont know if the air pressure is enough hold a bump while high speed or cornering. 
 
Air suspension is not equal to performance? I have to baby it while driving?
 
P.s The system actually allow me to drive whatever height i want, just that i will have problem of bottom out the suspension, if i not raise it up pretty high.[/QUOTE]


Yup, air compressors are fully sealed so they are water proof.  But of course, try not to put it where there is constant water running, because the electrical connections are not water proof. 

Are you using electronic valves or manual valves?? 

And no, I would equate air suspension to performance, its more of a luxury thingy I believe, howvever peoper have driven hard on their air system setup and still do well, With that aspect it is more geared towards the bags.

You should take pictures of the setup you have. 

good luck.

you need a more oem system like airrunner if you want a quiet set up.

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;208714]Very, very soon! :dance:

Stay interested!!! :biggthumpup:[/QUOTE]

 im interested in learning more as well.

are you a vendor? usually they only have vendors advertising thier products on the site, im not trying to be a d*ck at all, but i want to give you a heads up just incase :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=hondaboi;208696]hey OC....

just a side, note...is there a site that I can learn more about hydro's?[/QUOTE]

[url]www.layitlow.com[/url]

Hi I am a 36 year old guy from the Toronto Canada area. I have built lots of cars...lowriders, mini trucks, euros...etc.
 
I have about 15 years experience with air ride, I did my first truck in 92 with 1/4" air line. If anyone has any questions about air ride i'll be glad to help. Or sourcing any parts etc I can get you in touch with some of my contacts and pass along info for you in a PM or something. I am a no nonsense stickler for quality...as are my buddies. If it isn't the best part why buy it and put it on your ride?...so when it breaks in a week you have to replace it with another one$$$?
 
I am an airbrusher & custom painter...I've been doing that as long as the custom car thing.
 
I got out of mini trucks cause the attitude of the new generation of guys just irritated me. I have recently got into old VW bugs and stuff. I own a 59 vw bug right now, I got it rolling last summer...finally. I sold all my toys and bought a house a while back (kids...wife, you need to grow up sometimes) but my next toy will be a Honda Odessey van...VIP style. Maybe in the summer.
 
I am here because I have a customer who want me to do up his 1993 Toyota Aristo. Yes RHD imported from Japan? Or you can call it a 1993 Lexus GS300.
 
I have convinced him this is the style he should do it in. I am good at modifying cars, and enjoy the "less is more" kinda attitude. I am out of my element though. I have watched the VIP style thing from a far, but I am not expert at it. I want it to be authentic...so i've come to the experts.
 
I am going to need help with any info on parts you guys can give me. I'll need a skirt/body pkg, maybe front and back chin spoiler options? Grilles etc. Everyone of my suppliers can't get me anything for this car...it's just too old.
 
 
I love the site and enjoy the fact that there arn't any "internet gangsters" on VIPstyle...lol. I guess i'm just too old for all that crap now.
 
Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.
 
Later guys.

Oh snap...I posted in the wrong spot...sorry guys I got the pages mixed up. 
 
[B]VIPACCORDWAGON...[/B]
 
The compressors are usually loud...there is nothing you can do about that unless you are running nytrogen or compressed air. Air Zenith's are as loud as Viairs...but have a tendancy to break quicker if you beat them up.
 
I beat the hell out of my air ride and roll low as hell without much fuss, but you have struts and not bags. You just need to know what is good and what is crap.
 
The guys who set it up looks like they set up the stance right...it's layed out pretty good...dunno why you would'nt be able to roll it low, what struts do you have...can you take a picture of the setup/struts? Did they align it so you don't chew your tires up at ride height? A ride height [B]DEFINATELY[/B] needs to be established.
 
The compressors will get crazy hot all sealed up...put them out where they can get some air or the thermal protection will keep sutting them off pre-maturely. 
 
shoot over some info and i'll see if i can help.
 
Later.

[quote=LOPHAT;210532]The guys who set it up looks like they set up the stance right...it's layed out pretty good[/quote]

That thing does not lay out at all!

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/trefive/HMS%20Meet/IMG_0007.gif[/IMG]

This is laying out properly with no cutting...

[quote=normandie;210503][URL="http://www.layitlow.com"]www.layitlow.com[/URL][/quote]

Just keep in mind that these guys are predominately lowriders...they have a very different philosophy when it comes to how their hydraulics are used, etc.

[B]OCKlasse[/B] without seeing where the front tires sit/hit, offset, etc...I would say it's not that bad. 
 
It's easy to say "it doesn't lay out" when it's not your ass on the line when a $2500.00 skirt kit gets cracked.
 
I agree you may squeeze another 2-3" out of that setup, but can it be done safely? 
 
What brand strut setup is in it? 
 
When I setup a car I set it up around what rims/tires the customer brings me so I know the backspacing will work/tuck when I drop the piss out of it. If the backspacing was off by as much as an inch it may have caused a problem
 
Is it fully compressed without it getting close to cutting a bag? Minimum height laws may be different in other parts of the world. 
 
On my 59 bug I don't run shocks up front, I just use the urethane bushings and the Slam bags solely as my suspension...and it will lay pan with the right tires. But in the UK they need to run shocks to pass inspection. So most run a regular beam with shocks to pass inspection and get OK'ed, then go home and rip the regular beam out and put in a narrowed beam witout shocks.
 
I try not to judge other shops setups without seeing them in person, and he is yet to post pics.
 
I am unfamilliar with that type of accord wagon...is it built off the same platform as it's american equivalent? Is the upper strut mount in the same location? higher...lower...etc etc.
 
Bucket loads of variables my man...bucketloads. 
 
I have been cruising through the forums and alot of these "generic...make it to fit" strut kits seem to eat bags if installed wrong. 
 
Famous last words..."Ya man, lay my s**t out!" then a bag pops and the rep of your shop starts to circle the drain. If the installers don't want to be on the hook for killing someone they may have set spacers in there to prevent it from damaging stuff.
 
Again, i'm not here to start nothing, but this is exactly why I do setups for people I want to do setups for, and turn away those that I don't. 
 
I'm not going to risk everything I own cause someone wants to rail down the highway doing 55mph. 
 
I [B]will [/B]however lay out rides and put in removable bump stops...then simply inform the owner if he/she want's to go lower they can trim, or remove the bump stop. But that would be THEIR modification...not mine...hense not my ass getting sued.
 
I'm going to wait till I see the pics of the setup before I pass judgement.

Wow, that is a lot of writing!

You said it sits low, I said it does not...there are an nth number of individuals on this site riding lower than that on coils!

[quote=LOPHAT;210739] 
 
Famous last words..."Ya man, lay my s**t out!" then a bag pops and the rep of your shop starts to circle the drain. If the installers don't want to be on the hook for killing someone they may have set spacers in there to prevent it from damaging stuff.
 [/quote]

Exactly why hydraulics > air :shrug: :giggity:

It's alot of writing...so what? 
 
Would it be better if I said "you suck...threw in a bunch of curse words and had no explination of why I was saying what I was saying?" sorry i'm no internet gangsta.
 
I dunno if you figure I don't know what I'm talking about...but I do.
 
Read the post...I don't care how low you can go on coils. Colis are different than air, air is different than hydro's. If you say you know as much as you do, then you wouldn't compare apples to oranges. If he got the wrong kit for that particular car, that might explain why it sits where it does.
 
I am not in the habit of s**tin on peoples rides either. I am also not the kind of guy who is going to say something before I have all the info.
 
I just said if going low means potentially blowing bags...i'm not for it. 
 
Hydros are not for the faint at heart IMO. I've owned 4 hydro cars and i've got a 63 Impala SS ragtop I will get around to eventually.
 
Dude, he was complaining about the sound of his compressor, what you think would happen when he started frying solenoids, motors, and having to do regular maintenance, plus charge his s**t up on the regular? 
 
I am no punk when it comes to the suspension game...I supply and build cars for video shoots and movie shoots in Toronto. 
 
Again not picking a fight, but I know what low is. There is different kinds of low for different kinds of setups.
 
Xzibit video shoot for Concentrate... Jimmy from Rollerz representin'...enjoy!
 
 
[IMG]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r78/kandydude/100_9461-1.jpg[/IMG]
 
[IMG]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r78/kandydude/100_9447.jpg[/IMG]
 
[IMG]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r78/kandydude/100_9460-1.jpg[/IMG]
 
[IMG]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r78/kandydude/100_9469.jpg[/IMG]

[quote=LOPHAT;210816]Hydros are not for the faint at heart IMO. I've owned 4 hydro cars and i've got a 63 Impala SS ragtop I will get around to eventually.
 
Dude, he was complaining about the sound of his compressor, what you think would happen when he started frying solenoids, motors, and having to do regular maintenance, plus charge his s**t up on the regular? 
 [/quote]

Well, it is people like you that give hydraulics a bad name, and associate them exclusively with lowriders. There are a great number of individuals out there who know how to properly execute a hydraulic system with absolutely no negative side effects you mention above.

Guys like me who are not into hopping are running 24 volts, and we run 24 volts because we don't need to get air, we just need to get the car up. If you are as knowledgeable about hydraulics as you imply yourself to be, you would know you are not going to "fry solenoids, burn motors, and have regular maintenance" on 24 volts. 

I have had my setup in my car for two years now, and have I had to replace anything? No. Solenoids? No. Motors? No. Even seals? Nope! Mind you that my car is daily driven and has made numerous trips to Arizona, and has resided in the Arizona heat with no adverse problems.

Low voltage = extreme reliability. Competition cylinder seals = several years before needing change. Batteries = twice a month charge [B]if[/B] you wish to not run a Street Charger which will charge them for you. 

Looking for comfort? How about the fact that hydraulic cylinders have more travel than bags. Accumulators will make your car ride better than stock, and the ride is adjustable.

So please, stop spreading false information. I'm here to properly educate and inform others about other positive alternatives to the "norm," not scare them away. :eek5h5:

I will post once more and then say we can agree to agree or disagree. Don't assume i'm a thug cause I posted up some pics of a lowrider. I know guys that have lowriders and Bentley's sharing the same garage space.
 
I never said that [B]everyone[/B] who owns a hydraulic setup [B]WILL[/B] fry motors or pumps etc, just that it may happen, are you saying that it can't? 
 
Did I state it was impossible to pop an air bag? no.
 
Nor did I state I preferred one over the other. I've run both and like both in different ways. I agree you can drive a hydro car and have it last...and have it be reliable.
 
You started up with the airbags=crap    hydros:biggthumpup: nonsense earlier...not me. [B]Insult #1[/B]
 
Don't say I give Hydro's a bad name...you know nothing about me...so that's just plain ignorant. [B]Insult #2[/B]
 
If you feel i'm pissing all over your hydro fame I apologize...that's not what I meant to do. You compared an air setup to a coilover setup, not me.
 
If you guys are all about respect over here it's high time you start showing some. As far as I can see you are the only one doing any insulting thus far. Just cause you do it with you pinky finger up while typing...doesen't make it anything different.
 
[B]YOU[/B] don't have any problems with [B]your[/B] system cause [B]YOU [/B]respect it. Not every customer does...that's the problem.
 
Do you know how many times I've heard of installs being done on a car or truck only to have them come back a week later with a bent frame cause they figured they could gas hop cause they had a full framed car? seriously.
 
And after they were specifically told [B]not to hop[/B] cause it was only a basic install it was designed to simply go up and down...and they would ruin their ride. Then [B]WE[/B] are the bad guys. Some guys have champagne dreams, but a Burger King budget.
 
If you respect ANY adjustable setup you it will last longer than if you abuse it...you have to agree with me on that.
 
Unforunately not every customer will respect their adjustable suspension, thus the installer can do nothing but warn them of its boundries, the do's and don'ts and then send them on their way.
 
I had accumulators on a 91 Integra on juice I did back in the day...and I loved the ride. 
 
But if you are saying that I give hydros a bad name cause I may choose to get up over 40" and fry s**t ? You have no right to tell me what i can and can't do with my money...what are you the Hydro Police?
 
If guys like me (and lots before me) didn't push the limits of the old stuff...Prestolite motors, and the Reds hydros kits back in the day etc, you wouldn't have the competition valves and parts you just spoke of.
 
Don't front and act like you just dump a hydro setup in the trunk of a car or truck, rub it every now and then with chrome polish, and never have to worry about it for years at a time...or about basic maintenence.
 
If you use this site as a thread for your business to peddle your products, do your thing. I am not knocking you or your shop. I...like you, want to give people all the info related to hyrdos and bags...don't omit the bad stuff...the bad stuff is part of the package at times. 
 
If they are the kind of person that hates "issues" then they should set it and forget it.
 
 
Later.

I don't state that air bags = crap, but I do laugh when people (such as yourself) feed into stereotype that hydraulics = unreliable. I never associated thugs with lowriders LOL. I did state however that the two genres of vehicles are built for different purposes. 

Guys building VIP cars and not caring about whether they can "play" or hop their cars. They are looking to go as low as possible, and to have a "comfortable" ride. 

If you feel I'm insulting you, I do apologize. As I have stated, my job here is to educate.

To go back to the root of this post: The OP stated that he cannot drive at his pre-aired height because the car bottoms out and does not ride well. I can attest to the fact that with hydraulic suspension, one can ride as low as he wishes without fear of bottoming out. Simple as that.

[QUOTE]Don't front and act like you just dump a hydro setup in the trunk of a car or truck, rub it every now and then with chrome polish, and never have to worry about it for years at a time...or about basic maintenence.[/QUOTE]

And for the record. I guess I front, because besides changing my oil every 6-8 months, I just rub it with chrome polish and never worry about it. :smiley-rofl:

Welcome man!..
 
nice car!!!..
 
those comressor youll just have to live with the noise.. i do all my installs on the outside and you still hear it.. i wouldnt suggest putting the comp in a seal box becuase those comp get very hot and need air.. 
 
no need to worry about weather water or rain.. my set up has been under my car for over a year and in Hawaii it rains alot.. 
 
Looking from how you car looks looklike you would go under your car to try to keep the set up clean from the weather.. 
 
I used to install hydros and has build Hawaiis highest hoping hoppers to show set ups with just the batt that in the car. . also.. and the same goes for what i tell people doing air.. its all about the install.. I swayed away fom hydros becuase its a litto harder to install plus they use larger lines.. and when something goes wrong if it ever does.. theres oil all over..

[quote=OCKlasse;210940]I don't state that air bags = crap, but I do laugh when people (such as yourself) feed into stereotype that hydraulics = unreliable. I never associated thugs with lowriders LOL. I did state however that the two genres of vehicles are built for different purposes. 
 
Guys building VIP cars and not caring about whether they can "play" or hop their cars. They are looking to go as low as possible, and to have a "comfortable" ride. 
 
If you feel I'm insulting you, I do apologize. As I have stated, my job here is to educate.
 
To go back to the root of this post: The OP stated that he cannot drive at his pre-aired height because the car bottoms out and does not ride well. I can attest to the fact that with hydraulic suspension, one can ride as low as he wishes without fear of bottoming out. Simple as that.
 
 
 
[B]And for the record. I guess I front, because besides changing my oil every 6-8 months, I just rub it with chrome polish and never worry about it. :smiley-rofl:[/quote][/B]
 
Yes you do...changing oil[B] is[/B] basic maintenance. I guess you never change the oil in your car either...it just replaces itself? Thats what I call maintenence...what do you call it? Let me check my dictionary. 
 
I'm new here and trying to fit in, so this just makes me look bad, and I don't like that.
 
You seem to forget [B]YOU[/B] will not be installing [B]every [/B]system for these guys. You control what happens in your shop. Unless you are going to fly over and do his install, you can't tell him he is NEVER going to have any problems with it.
 
I have repaired many hack jobs...unfortunately it comes with the game. 
 
What's this "if you feel i'm insulting you" crap? You [B]were[/B] insulting me saying "people like me" give hydros a bad name without knowing anything about me.
 
There are other points I brought up you chose to gloss over...no problem. 
 
I think we are saying the same thing but just two different ways. I won't do anything half assed. I overbuild everthing I put on the streets cause that is somebodys son, daughter, father...etc.
 
Quality, quality, quality. 
 
I know vip guys arn't trying to hit 40"...i'm not an idiot. I wouldn't expect them to drop a 454 under the hood of thgeir rides and slap on some drag slicks either.
 
 
So accordwagon post up some pics and lets ee what the problem is. There seems to be plenty of knowledgeable people here to help.

There is lots of good information coming from various backgrounds...on the same parts. :biggthumpup:
 
Please stay on topic.