ucf21 big brakes downsizing

what r my options on downgrading the front brakes to smaller one to fit wide wheels?..  i hear something like 2gs but whats parts r involve wit that.. and will the 2gs clear low disk?

you can go UCF10 rotors and twin spot calipers. i'm sure there will be a UCF10 guy who would happily swap you for your 4 spots.
 
1989-1992 UCF10 are the smallest
1992-1993 UCF10 are slightly bigger
 
so depends on just how much clearance you want.

Only in VIP would someone want to get rid of their bigger brakes for some smaller ones.

Yea the 10 should fit right up since the 10 can fit 20's with no modification

sc's and supra jza80 NA should fit as well

sounds good so far.. hopefully its just rotors and calipers..

[QUOTE=widebody_Q;334275]Only in VIP would someone want to get rid of their bigger brakes for some smaller ones.

Yea the 10 should fit right up since the 10 can fit 20's with no modification[/QUOTE]

You cant just put on ucf20 brakes on ucf10. you will need ucf20 lower ball joints

yo flex my cousin has some 93 rotors and calipers, he went the opposite of you with ucf20 brakes hehe

[QUOTE=ni5mo240;334285]yo flex my cousin has some 93 rotors and calipers, he went the opposite of you with ucf20 brakes hehe[/QUOTE]


haha.. it bolts rite on? if so ill just swap from my other LS..

just try it...

to put 20 brakes on a 10 you need the 20 lbj for clearance. its not an issue if you're putting 10 brakes on the 20.
 
93-94 fronts are what you want since they have the caliper clearance you need but the rotor diameter is bigger than the 90-92.
 
it's a bolt on affair.

be on the look out for this foo's ride...shit is DOPE!

[QUOTE=widebody_Q;334275]Only in VIP would someone want to get rid of their bigger brakes for some smaller ones.

[/QUOTE]

+ 1,  why not just run spacers to clear the brakes?

[QUOTE=( . )_( . );334323]+ 1, why not just run spacers to clear the brakes?[/QUOTE]
 
because front wheels r wide and low offset.. if i add the 15mm spacer, itll stick out like 2 inches..

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;334308]to put 20 brakes on a 10 you need the 20 lbj for clearance. its not an issue if you're putting 10 brakes on the 20.
 
93-94 fronts are what you want since they have the caliper clearance you need but the rotor diameter is bigger than the 90-92.
 
it's a bolt on affair.[/QUOTE]
 
93-94 same rotor size as the 98's?

Brake size breakdown:

'90 smallest
'91-'92 bigger
'93-'94 biggest

What kind of offsets & width are we talking here?

wow. That is quite the idea you got there. Why not get wheels with a high disc instead?  When i went with a bigger width and size my stock brakes got a lot weaker and you're actually going smaller?   I must be doing it wrong, here I am trying to get bigger brakes.

[QUOTE=flexinsteelz;334356]93-94 same rotor size as the 98's?[/QUOTE]

no its smaller but the 93-94s had the biggest calipers out of the 1st gens.

Imma go get a sneek peek haha kumar shop he I come

[QUOTE=GS300ToM;334411]Imma go get a sneek peek haha kumar shop he I come[/QUOTE]
 
 
dont be snooping...

backwards if you ask me...my 2gs needed a 5 mm to clear with low disk

it aint backwards when you see what hes workin' with hahha.

my are low disk and it doesnt need 5 mm to clear...

[QUOTE=GS300ToM;334582]my are low disk and it doesnt need 5 mm to clear...[/QUOTE]
yea, depends on the wheel... I had work euroline SL's

Not the secret wheel specs game again....
How are we supposed to answer intelligently when we don't know what we're working with?

[QUOTE=Schnitz;334614]Not the secret wheel specs game again....
How are we supposed to answer intelligently when we don't know what we're working with?[/QUOTE]
Nobody is hiding anything. All i ask was which calipers bolt on.. ? Which has been answered..

bigger wheels= more rotational mass= less braking power
 
Less braking power+ smaller calipers and rotors= even less braking power...yea its not backwards. =)

[QUOTE=speedaddict;334733]bigger wheels= more rotational mass= less braking power
 
Less braking power+ smaller calipers and rotors= even less braking power...yea its not backwards. =)[/QUOTE]
Yea ur rite I didnt know that... I just woke up one day and felt like downgrading the brakes for the hell of it..

^^^LOL

[QUOTE=flexinsteelz;334615]Nobody is hiding anything. All i ask was which calipers bolt on.. ? Which has been answered..[/QUOTE]

Point was, why switch to smaller less effective brakes (especially when paired with larger heavier wheels) if all you typically need is a 15mm spacer to clear the larger ones. If you shared the wheels specs maybe we could have saved you the effort, time and cost of a brake swap and even your life or someone else's in the process.

All in the name of fitting low offset and low disc wheels :D  Let us know how it works out.

this really isn't that complicated. he obviosly has the exact fitment he wants but can not clear the caliper since 2ls calipers are retarded wide.
 
i want to know why everyone thinks it's such a huge downgrade. the 93-94 is heavier than all ucf20s, the brakes have larger pistons (although less of them), and the pad has more swept area. larger rotors will help with cooling but thats about it.
 
this is similar to the z32/g50 brake debate. non-aesthetic benefits are questionable imo. i switched from 92 to 95s and didn't see much of a difference (including braided lines, fresh fluid, slotted rotors, etc.). in fact, i have a set of 93 fronts on standby in case i ever run into this exact situation.

The fact that it's a downgrade period is what makes it seem backwards to me:shrug:. Specially when you can keep your current brakes, which are probably not the best as is, if you just used a spacer or got the correct wheel.  But hey, I still believe in function > form even when it does come to vip cars. These wheels must be super dope to even want to go through the trouble of switching brakes and even furthermore, make them smaller and less capable of braking.

my point is that it being a downgrade is an assumption. the things i listed attribute to MORE clamping force (or at least more evenly ditributed over a larger area), not less.
 
the earlier rotor is also 20mm smaller in diameter but 4mm thicker in width.

another case of buying wheels that dont fit...LOL  building your car on an AFTERTHOUGHT...(which is what I did with my SL's so no knocking here...)

Let us know how it goes.  Maybe the finished results will yield the proof that it was worth it or not.

[QUOTE=Schnitz;334772]Point was, why switch to smaller less effective brakes (especially when paired with larger heavier wheels) if all you typically need is a 15mm spacer to clear the larger ones. If you shared the wheels specs maybe we could have saved you the effort, time and cost of a brake swap and even your life or someone else's in the process.[/QUOTE]

fawkin' canadian...you need to go back to 101 :biggthumpup:...i have a feeling you're a clublexus kinda guy...which is cool but some people try to push the envelope here...

and besides, his wheels are prolly 10-15 lbs each heavier than stock...when dealing with a 4,000lb + car, 10-15 lbs isn't much weight...and yes, i do realize its rotational weight...

problem is Toyota's don't want to stop as it is already :smiley-rofl:

5mm spacer won't work eh?

i have a feeling that this thread is gonna turn in the wrong direction.

This thread [I][B]started [/B][/I]in the wrong direction.

y ya basshing...... CLOSE THIS SHIET DOWN already!! point made

whos bashing Tom?

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;334832]this really isn't that complicated. he obviosly has the exact fitment he wants but can not clear the caliper since 2ls calipers are retarded wide.
 
i want to know why everyone thinks it's such a huge downgrade. the 93-94 is heavier than all ucf20s, the brakes have larger pistons (although less of them), and the pad has more swept area. larger rotors will help with cooling but thats about it.
 
this is similar to the z32/g50 brake debate. non-aesthetic benefits are questionable imo. i switched from 92 to 95s and didn't see much of a difference (including braided lines, fresh fluid, slotted rotors, etc.). in fact, i have a set of 93 fronts on standby in case i ever run into this exact situation.[/QUOTE]
 
 
thanks for clearing things up...:biggthumpup:
 
as for why not run a spacer? well fronts are 18x10 zero offset with a low disk...and with a 15mm spacer, it'll look like a FWD dragster... and speaking of FWD, this tread reminds me of  HONDATECH.. haha.. argue over nothing..
 
and why not buy the correct wheels? well i got plenty of wheels to run but i decided to run these.... i rather own couple sets of wheels  then to own only one set and wait for it to sell then buy another set... 
 
and thanks to ni5mo240... got the calipers and rotors from his cousin and they worked perfect.. cleared by 2mm..   
 
but anyways.. thanks for being very concern for my braking issues..

so how bout some teaser pics for the doubters (and the supporters).

no prob bro, post some pics hehe! Wanna check it out

^^^ check pm's

[QUOTE=speedaddict;334923]whos bashing Tom?[/QUOTE]

ugh :pat: lol

yea...where are the pics for the doubters??  18x10 up front eh?  gotta see this.

[QUOTE=flexinsteelz;334935]
and why not buy the correct wheels? well i got plenty of wheels to run but i decided to run these.... i rather own couple sets of wheels  then to own only one set and wait for it to sell then buy another set... 
.[/QUOTE]

If only we were all so lucky:signdammit:

Any pics? we have the same widths and offset.:runcoold:

[QUOTE=speedaddict;334951]yea...where are the pics for the doubters??  18x10 up front eh?  gotta see this.[/QUOTE]

nothing to see yet... not done yet sir

but i must say the rear is on point tho :dance:

now when you say...on point...are we talking mAD TIte CAmBer HelLA FluSH YO?  or ON POINT.  Ever since I read this post, I started diggin up old VIPCar mags and so far, most of the 18x10 and 18x11 setups are pretty sweet.

well dont have much pics but heres a couple.. only worked on rears.. not done yet.. still gotta add some stock body line features to it..  that way it doesnt just look like a thin sheet metal fender.. 

but started out with these 19x11.. after messing with the fenders, i figure i can go wider..
[IMG]http://i25.tinypic.com/a9rbc7.jpg[/IMG]

so instead of adding spacers.. i slapped these wheels on.. 18x12 0 et.. 
[IMG]http://i26.tinypic.com/rwqmuh.jpg[/IMG]

i'm feeling that...

damn! shits on point. holla if u need help Be.

shits sick man.  you and dennis tackling this shit?

[QUOTE=VIP-UCF;334871]fawkin' canadian...you need to go back to 101 :biggthumpup:...i have a feeling you're a clublexus kinda guy...which is cool but some people try to push the envelope here...

and besides, his wheels are prolly [B]10-15 lbs each heavier than stock[/B]...when dealing with a 4,000lb + car, 10-15 lbs isn't much weight...and yes, i do realize its [B]rotational weight[/B]...[/QUOTE]

Strangely enough I don't 'feel' anything about dipshits like you at all. Reason being you haven't a clue to start with. If you did, you would do the math and realize that weight difference of that proportion is [SIZE=5]HUGE[/SIZE].

If a Clublexus guy likes to know exactly what they are dealing in order to give an educated unbiased useful opinion instead of just post whoring then yes I am.

Let's see your 'pushing the envelope' ride.

[QUOTE=flexinsteelz;334935]thanks for clearing things up...:biggthumpup:
 
as for why not run a spacer? well fronts are 18x10 zero offset with a low disk...and with a 15mm spacer, it'll look like a FWD dragster... and speaking of FWD, this tread reminds me of  HONDATECH.. haha.. argue over nothing..
 
and why not buy the correct wheels? well i got plenty of wheels to run but i decided to run these.... i rather own couple sets of wheels  then to own only one set and wait for it to sell then buy another set... 
 
and thanks to ni5mo240... got the calipers and rotors from his cousin and they worked perfect.. cleared by 2mm..   
 
but anyways.. thanks for being very concern for my braking issues..[/QUOTE]

Was that so hard? :pat:

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;334832]this really isn't that complicated. he obviosly has the exact fitment he wants but can not clear the caliper since 2ls calipers are retarded wide.
 
i want to know why everyone thinks it's such a huge downgrade. the 93-94 is heavier than all ucf20s, the brakes have larger pistons (although less of them), and the pad has more swept area. larger rotors will help with cooling but thats about it.
 
this is similar to the z32/g50 brake debate. non-aesthetic benefits are questionable imo. i switched from 92 to 95s and didn't see much of a difference (including braided lines, fresh fluid, slotted rotors, etc.). in fact, i have a set of 93 fronts on standby in case i ever run into this exact situation.[/QUOTE]

Braided lines are only good for prolonged track use. Slotted rotors equals less braking area.
Each piston might be smaller but cumulatively they have more clamping force and cover more area. So more clamping force covering more area and better cooling.
Do you really think Lexus took a step backwards after 10 years of production?

i thought u was gonna swap with your 10 lol.

[QUOTE=BAHC;335219]shits sick man.  you and dennis tackling this shit?[/QUOTE]

just him...... got skills or wat :dance:

[QUOTE=flexinsteelz;334998]
[IMG]http://i26.tinypic.com/rwqmuh.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

This is off the chain. Can't wait for it to be complete.

[QUOTE=Schnitz;335228]If a Clublexus guy likes to know exactly what they are dealing in order to give an educated unbiased useful opinion instead of just post whoring then yes I am.[/QUOTE]
 
no offense brett, but did you even read my post? what is your educated, unbiased opinion based on?
 
the 93-94 caliper pistons have 17% more surface area than the ucf20. the '95 saw less than a 5% reduction in stopping distance over the '94 in spite of being more than 6% lighter. the ucf20's larger rotor size helps with heat dissipation, meaning more resistance to fade, but who really does repeated hard braking in their ls? finally, if the 4 piston caliper has so much more clamping force than the 93-94 then how was braking bias maintained using the same rear calipers from 93-00?
 
[I]this[/I] is educated on unbiased. i look forward to your response.

oops.

[QUOTE=Schnitz;335231]Braided lines are only good for prolonged track use. Slotted rotors equals less braking area.
Each piston might be smaller but cumulatively they have more clamping force and cover more area. So more clamping force covering more area and better cooling.
Do you really think Lexus took a step backwards after 10 years of production?[/QUOTE]
 
braided lines are certainly [I]not[/I] beneficial only on the track. rubber expands under pressure meaning less fluid transfer. this means less responsive braking.
 
slotted rotors have less contact area but refresh the pad surface, have increased bite, and release gasses.
 
piston count does not affect clamping force, area does. the advantage of fixed calipers are rigidity (and therefore weight in some cases) and reaction time since there is no drag from moving parts.
 
do you really think that just because something is newer it's automatically a drastic improvment?

Brakes only transfer kinetic energy into heat. Tires are what stop your car. True story bro.

Good luck with the project.

[QUOTE=Schnitz;335228]Strangely enough I don't 'feel' anything about dipshits like you at all. Reason being you haven't a clue to start with. If you did, you would do the math and realize that weight difference of that proportion is [SIZE=5]HUGE[/SIZE].
 
If a Clublexus guy likes to know exactly what they are dealing in order to give an educated unbiased useful opinion instead of just post whoring then yes I am.
 
Let's see your 'pushing the envelope' ride.[/QUOTE]
 
 
you're right...i haven't a clue...my ride sucks...

You obviously have more knowledge about the LS platform specifically. My  comments were more general in the fact that there is a reason for more  pistons vs. a single piston. I have never heard of a 4 piston caliper  having less clamping force than a single piston. That's really the point  isn't it.... more clamping force distributed more evenly.
My previous experience with performance cars etc.. gives me my unbiased  opinion. Talking to manufacturers like Baer and Stoptech also helps. I  can't remember which it was but one of them told me that if there wasn't  such a public demand they would never manufacture or sell another  slotted or drilled rotor ever. Old technology that isn't applicable to  the new technology of pads.
 The benefits of braided lines only come into play when the fluid gets  hot enough to soften typical rubber lines. This only happens after  repeated hard braking.
 I've had both on the same car on the same track and realized the  difference. Never once did I notice a difference on the street (racing  or not).
Something as simple as a proportioning valve can modify brake bias, not to mention a slew of other possible options.

Basically that response was directed to VIPUCF seeing as I quoted him.
The first post was so vague that noone could give an educated unbiased response.

On another note, where do you find all this specific LS data? I'd like to do some more reading.

[QUOTE=VIP-UCF;335262]you're right...i haven't a clue...my ride sucks...[/QUOTE]

Never seen your ride.
Its your attitude that sucks.

^^ LoL

[QUOTE=Schnitz;335266]Never seen your ride.
Its your attitude that sucks.[/QUOTE]
 
my boss tells me the same exact thing...damn...:pat:

The same topic used to come up back in the day.  Its not new.  People want the most dish they can get for a given offset.  Thats not just the guys buying used but even some guys buying new.  Since this scene is built off of style, you have to expect lots of things that don't make sense.  Fake parking sensors, satellite radio antenna's even fake caliper covers have a place in the scene (although I don't care what no one says, fake caliper covers are homo).

[QUOTE=Schnitz;335265]My comments were more general in the fact that there is a reason for more pistons vs. a single piston. I have never heard of a 4 piston caliper having less clamping force than a single piston. That's really the point isn't it.... more clamping force distributed more evenly. My previous experience with performance cars etc.. gives me my unbiased opinion. Talking to manufacturers like Baer and Stoptech also helps.[/QUOTE]
 
read the white papers on stoptech's site. the area of one half of the caliper's pistons are used in the formula to determine clamping force. this means a two piston sliding caliper has more force than a four piston caliper with opposing smaller pistons. 
 
[QUOTE=Schnitz;335265]I can't remember which it was but one of them told me that if there wasn't such a public demand they would never manufacture or sell another slotted or drilled rotor ever. Old technology that isn't applicable to the new technology of pads.[/QUOTE]
 
drilled/slotted rotors are commonly used in race applications today. in regards to performance that's all i need to know. if the stated benefits weren't true, no one would use them.
 
as far as real world applications, i doubt the benefits are more than marginal. i chose to try them out (this is the first set of non-blank rotors i've ever run) mainly for cosmetics. i will probably go back to solid rotors when i redo my brakes since you can't see them anyway.
 
[QUOTE=Schnitz;335265]The benefits of braided lines only come into play when the fluid gets hot enough to soften typical rubber lines. This only happens after repeated hard braking.
I've had both on the same car on the same track and realized the difference. Never once did I notice a difference on the street (racing or not).[/QUOTE]
 
age causes fatigue as well. these cars are 10+ years old.
 
[QUOTE=Schnitz;335265]Something as simple as a proportioning valve can modify brake bias, not to mention a slew of other possible options.[/QUOTE]
 
true. i tried to look up the part for the 93-94 and 95-00 proportioning valves but didn't have any luck. my [I]assumption[/I] is they will be the same, if not in part number than at least in function within a small degree. nothing else that effects clamping force leads me to believe otherwise.
 
[QUOTE=Schnitz;335265]On another note, where do you find all this specific LS data? I'd like to do some more reading.[/QUOTE]
 
it's the internet bro. all you have to do is look.

Good to know about the white papers. I'll check them out.
I asked about the rotors for race applications and they told me they are a completely different material make-up. He actually told me they increase braking distance on the street. I like them better aesthetically as well though.
If you have to replace your brake lines then yes why not go with braided lines. If not, then they aren't worth the effort or expense.
Brake bias can be acheived with different rotor size as well.

[QUOTE=Schnitz;335327]Brake bias can be acheived with different rotor size as well.[/QUOTE]
 
care to elaborate? rotor size affects fade. you could interperet that as bias since after repeated stopping the brakes would work better but as far as clamping force rotor has no effect.

either way i dont get why it was made such a big deal, he wanted smaller brakes to fit deeper dish wheels, its not like the brakes are so under powered that hes gonna plow into a 84 year old pregnant women carrying 23 kids in her womb.

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;335328]care to elaborate? rotor size affects fade. you could interperet that as bias since after repeated stopping the brakes would work better but as far as clamping force rotor has no effect.[/QUOTE]

Found that information using those same white papers: [url]http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakebiasandperformance.shtml[/url]

[QUOTE=BAHC;335377]either way i dont get why it was made such a big deal, he wanted smaller brakes to fit deeper dish wheels, its not like the brakes are so under powered that hes gonna plow into a 84 year old pregnant women carrying 23 kids in her womb.[/QUOTE]
 
 
word...he swapped the brakes out already...done dotta...
 
this guy schnitz is irking...

Do the swap, upgrade the rubber lines to steel braided lines, slap some low offset/low disk rims on, shut em down and keep em guessing how you did it....

I don't see what the big deal is. If you have a problem with him downsizing his brakes, that means pretty much every UCF10 and 2GS are unsafe with their tiny stock brakes and oversized wheels.

[QUOTE=Schnitz;334772]Point was, why switch to smaller less effective brakes (especially when paired with larger heavier wheels) if all you typically need is a 15mm spacer to clear the larger ones. [B]If you shared the wheels specs maybe we could have saved you the effort, time and cost of a brake swap[/B] and even your life or someone else's in the process.[/QUOTE]
 
The bolded text was the whole point of my posts.
Trying to help = FAIL.

Oh snap I needa upgrade