Official Hydropneumatic Suspension Thread

Well, there has been a demand for this thread, and here it is.

I am here to answer all the questions, concerns, myths, stereotypes, and so on that come with hydraulic suspensions.

The reason it is dubbed a "hydropneumatic" suspension is because although hydraulics (oil) adjust the vehicle's height, it is really nitrogen-filled bladders called accumulators that dictate the firmness or softness of the ride. The pressure inside accumulators can be adjusted via a schrader valve.

So please, ask away, and let's have a more knowledgeable and informed community as to the different options for non-static suspensions. 

I am here solely to answer questions and concerns and not to hold a bias against any manufacturer or suspension-choice. I hope you, the consumer, can make an educated decision after having all of the knowledge and facts on hand :biggthumpup:

i've done a little research and am impressed with the possibilities of the juice. i believe it is a superior option to traditional airbags based on what i've learned (mostly from ocklasse and hyrdohaulics). here's the selling points to me (feel free to add to my comments, correct, or include anything i left out):
 
hydraulic fluid does not compress. this means you could basically have a solid suspension (infinite spring rate until the point of failure) if you wished. ideal for driving low.
 
ride quality is tunable via accumullators. research leads me to believe that a 400 psi charge is generally in the ballpark of oem ride quality. i spoke to hydrohaulics and they said that 800-1000psi would be good for me since i wanted to recreate an aggressive spring rate. i believe 1500psi is the max rating on common accumulators.
 
the rams design allows for better than average drop and lift, while ride quality remains near constant.
 
installation is generally easy (dependent on suspension type) with less clearance issues than bulkier air suspension.
 
trunk installs can be kept to a minimum (see ocklasse's install). you don't have to run 4 pumps and a million batteries like i had seen in the past (lowrider installs).
 
there are products that will charge your high voltage array off your factory charging system.
 
now that i type this i have to wonder why i haven't made the move yet. i guess i'm just a little scared since i have no hands on experience with it.

if setup correctly, Hydros can ride nicely...I started my car hobby in the late 80's cruising King and Story in  San Jose in lowriders....now THOSE were the days.

How would Hydraulic actuators (Rams) hold up in a mcpherson strut suspension system like the Y34 or F50? Especially when you have low offset wheels that exert sideways loading on the strut (referring to pics of WidebodyQ's cracked OEM struts from having 11"s on the front)?

[QUOTE=Dominik;331157](referring to pics of WidebodyQ's cracked OEM struts from having 11"s on the front)[/QUOTE]
 
iirc, agi's set up was modified for camber in a less than ideal manner.

I've known of the AON guys since I first started minitruckin. Remember seeing the 4pumped TL and Acura Wagon, boy howdy! Cleeeeean! I've been around hydraulics a bit, and everything they have seems really nice. 
Now for the questions. :D
How often should one rebuild their strokes? I know they just use o-rings, but I saw that Hydroholics has new strokes. Do these cut down on rebuilds? I noticed on the Hydroholics website, they use Rockford pumps instead of Marzocchi, why is that? Street Chargers, do they really work all that well? 

I'm sure I can come up with more. Give me time. :D

i think the biggest issue for hydro's is their lack of use in this and other japanese/tuner/sport compact community and background many of us came from. i have a basic understanding of hydraulics, but i would love to see it become more widespread, especially in styles and communities where getting low is not a style, it's a must, and that on the fly adjustability to get over crazy obstacles is very much needed.

[QUOTE=Dominik;331157]How would Hydraulic actuators (Rams) hold up in a mcpherson strut suspension system like the Y34 or F50? Especially when you have low offset wheels that exert sideways loading on the strut (referring to pics of WidebodyQ's cracked OEM struts from having 11"s on the front)?[/QUOTE]

Hydraulic cylinders hold up just fine in Macpherson applications. The ride is never quite as good as with a lower control-arm style suspension like mine. None-the-less, compared to many of the air setups today, the ride should be on par.

edit: The biggest benefit in this application would be that the 1-5/8" cylinder is much thinner in comparison to an airbag application. There is no possibility of a rupture from the cylinder.

[QUOTE=xseveredveganx;331162]How often should one rebuild their strokes? I know they just use o-rings, but I saw that Hydroholics has new strokes. Do these cut down on rebuilds? I noticed on the Hydroholics website, they use Rockford pumps instead of Marzocchi, why is that? Street Chargers, do they really work all that well?[/QUOTE]

Hydroholics uses what is referred to as a "competition"-style cylinder which utilizes three seals and a polypak seal. They are designed in such a way that there are always backup seals in case one or two fail. The polypak is much more durable than a typical o-ring. I went two and a half years before I first changed my seals, and I plan on making it a once every two year job. 

A hydraulic cylinder does not require its seals to be changed unless when the car is lifted, there is a steady drip coming from the bottom of the cylinder.

Marzocchi pumpheads are solely distributed through CCE, and they are excellent pumpheads used in the lowrider community and well-known. The Rockford #9 is still an excellent pumphead as well, and has been great with my setup, personally. 

Street Chargers can be, and are used by people with hydraulics. They continuously recharge your batteries while you are driving. I personally am not a fan of them because I like to have a full-charge, and with these chargers one always have a mediocre charge. That's not to say that they don't work, I just personally would never run one.

For reference, I charge my three Kinetiks about once a month (if that). I just connect them in series to my 36 volt charger overnight, and voila! Perfect charge.

[QUOTE=brainneeded;331168]i think the biggest issue for hydro's is their lack of use in this and other japanese/tuner/sport compact community and background many of us came from. i have a basic understanding of hydraulics, but i would love to see it become more widespread, especially in styles and communities where getting low is not a style, it's a must, and that on the fly adjustability to get over crazy obstacles is very much needed.[/QUOTE]

I very much agree with your standing, and I hope to see more hydraulic applications explored!

I keep coming up with new ideas on how to make hydraulics more appealing to the mainstream market, and I am very lucky that Hydroholics is willing to work with me on some of my ideas =)

This is a great thread!  Thank you for starting it.  I will be watching this thread with great interest.

Glad to see the thread up .
It will almost be a godfather of hydro to the VIP crew type moment .
Anyway.
Here is what I would like to see / learn.
What set up do you have from end to end with pics if possible.
Why did you choose each piece and what others were available and their issues or not being able to meet your needs. How does each part work like an acumulator and replacing seals and so on.
If you need me to clarify please let me know thanks.

this thread is killing me...  I now have so many questions, I'll hit u up OCKlasse later.

[QUOTE=SKperformance;331235]Glad to see the thread up .
It will almost be a godfather of hydro to the VIP crew type moment .
Anyway.
Here is what I would like to see / learn.
What set up do you have from end to end with pics if possible.
Why did you choose each piece and what others were available and their issues or not being able to meet your needs. How does each part work like an acumulator and replacing seals and so on.
If you need me to clarify please let me know thanks.[/QUOTE]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Well, let me start by stating a little bit about the different configurations available:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]When referring to hydraulics, you will hear a lot of talk about pumps and dumps. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[B][COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Pumps[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/B]
 
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Hydraulic pumps contain a motor, block, pumphead, and tank. The oil used within the setup is kept in the tank until the switch is engaged, at which point the motor is powered on, pumping oil through the pumphead and out of the block. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
 
[COLOR=white][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Only one hydraulic pump is needed to power a complete setup. The more pumps there are, however, the more oil that can be pumped through the setup. A vehicle with a four pump setup is considered the cr[/FONT][FONT=Calibri]ème de la crème of lowrider setups because each corner has its own pump and each corner can be controlled individually. For vehicles like ours however, one to two pumps is more than enough to suit our needs.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
 
[B][COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Dumps[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/B]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]A dump is essentially a valve that directs when the fluid can travel, in addition to being the gateway for oil to return to the tank. On a four pump setup, only one dump is required per pump because the fluid in each pump serves only as fluid for that one corner. On a setup like mine, however, I have several dumps, and each dictates when fluid can enter an individual corner. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Contained within the setup in addition to pumps and dumps are check valves, which allow fluid to travel only in one direction, not allowing to return the tank and slowdown valves, which dictate how slowly or quickly the fluid can reenter the tank.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Most common setups:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]1-5 (front, back, side, corner individual control)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]1-6 (same as 1-5 but with pancake)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[/COLOR][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]2-4 (front, back, side without individual control, pancake)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]2-6 (front, back, side, corner individual control, pancake)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]4-4 (every combination possible)[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[B][COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Accumulators[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/B]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]The last major pieces of the setup are the accumulators. The accumulators are your suspension, and are what give hydraulics setups their ride. They are black balls that contain a bag filled with nitrogen inside the housing. When you hit a bump, fluid is transferred to the accumulators and the bag of nitrogen acts as the dampening and rebound. No springs or shocks necessary! The pressure within the accumulators is adjustable and that varying adjustability will stiffen or soften the ride. Each corner requires an accumulator, so four are needed for a setup.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[B][COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]My setup[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/B]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]I have a one pump six dump setup (1-6) containing two three-dump manifolds. I have one check valve and two slowdown valves. The manifolds are connected via hardline underneath the setup. On each of the manifolds, two of the dumps serve as individual corner dumps and the middle dump acts as the return dump, which will allow fluid back into the tank. Off of the two return dumps contain a slowdown valve, which allows my setup to have a “pancake” motion; meaning both the front and rear can fall at the same speed.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]My setup has the ability for individual corner control. I can lift the front, rear, and sides individually. I even have the ability to lift corners individually as well, but for my setup, I just have four switches: front, back, driver side, passenger side. All it would take are four more switches to have individual corner control.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/trefive/IMG_1519.jpg[/IMG][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Here is a photo of my setup. The large bottom piece is the collective pump, and those six black cartridges are the dumps. The bladders extending off of the dumps are the accumulators.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
 
[B][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Why the Setup I Chose[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]There are many hydraulic companies out there, but the main reason I chose Hydroholics is because it is a hydraulic company dedicated to more our style of cars. It is the only hydraulic company that is not marketed and built for the lowrider crowd. While any other company’s setup will work on any vehicle, Hydroholics has designed its setups strictly for reliability and comfort. In addition, only the highest quality products are sold. Many hydraulic companies will offer “street” cylinders, basic check valves and slowdowns and so on, but these cheaper alternatives are known to be problematic and will have issues down the line. The intent on only selling one level of quality is that issues are minimized to the lowest extreme possible. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] 
[COLOR=black][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=white]Hydroholics is the only manufacturer to also build the manifolds that I use, which save a lot of time and money in plumbing, as well as also look the most aesthetically pleasing.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

WOW .........
I am still lost , I will have to read it again to absorb all this.
Do you have pics of it installed in your trunk ?
So you have 
4 accumulators (shocks /nitrogen bladders) , what did you have to do to make them fit ?
What size line from the trunk set up to the accumulators did you use?
How much did all of your cost .
Have you had any problems ?
what size battery do you have ?
Could you run a "street " system and keep just one battery ?
None of these systems could run of 12-14 vdc directly without a step up transformer ?
What is the gains to running a 1-6 , 2-6 and a 4-4 if they seem to do the same job , speed or power?

thank you

And the exact same setup pictured above is forsale here!!

[url]http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22351[/url]

[QUOTE=SKperformance;331322]WOW .........
I am still lost , I will have to read it again to absorb all this.
Do you have pics of it installed in your trunk ?[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/trefive/006.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/trefive/005.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=SKperformance;331322]So you have 
4 accumulators (shocks /nitrogen bladders) , what did you have to do to make them fit ?[/QUOTE]

There is a tee fitting that goes from the dump, and on one end is the accumulator and the other end is what goes to the cylinder.

[QUOTE=SKperformance;331322]What size line from the trunk set up to the accumulators did you use?[/QUOTE]

3/8"

[QUOTE=SKperformance;331322]How much did all of your cost .
Have you had any problems ?
what size battery do you have ?[/QUOTE]

I have approximately $2,000 in hydraulic parts and the rest depends on what batteries you run, etc. I am running three Kinetik HC1800 batteries

I have had no problems with my setup. The ride is absolutely fantastic, and the system is great. If anyone ever wants to take a ride in my car, he or she is more than welcome to! :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=SKperformance;331322]Could you run a "street " system and keep just one battery ?[/QUOTE]

If you're asking if you could run just one 12 volt battery, the answer is yes. It's about as quick as an air setup with 1/4" lines.


[QUOTE=SKperformance;331322]None of these systems could run of 12-14 vdc directly without a step up transformer ?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what exactly this is, but cold cranking amps have a lot to do with it. The batteries need to be of the deep cycle marine type, as they can be recharged several times.

[QUOTE=SKperformance;331322]What is the gains to running a 1-6 , 2-6 and a 4-4 if they seem to do the same job , speed or power?[/QUOTE]

The gains are posted in my section explaining what combos can be done with each setup. Obviously the single pump setups are nice because of their compact design. They become an issue on very large cars or trucks because the amount of oil required cannot fit into a single tank, hence you will see a lot of larger vehicles running two pump setups.

As far as speed, that has to do with the size of the pumphead and the batteries mostly. A 24 volt setup is very quick to most air guys I have shown, and you can see what three batteries are like with my YouTube video posted in the Euro section.

On Hydroholics site they mention the 1 pump 5 dump system is for 'mid-size or smaller cars'. What system would you recommend for an LS?

when i spoke to hydrohaulics i got some conflicting information.
 
he told me that 12v systems weren't appropriate for cars of our size. i believe he also said the same about single pump setups (ocklasse's setup didn't cross my mind at the time).
 
i initially wanted to do a 1-3 12v system because i am more interested in the properties that make it ideal for driving low than the adjustability aspect. any thoughts on this brandon?
 
he recommended a 2-4 and 24v or more for the ucf10.

Tagging for later...

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;331380]when i spoke to hydrohaulics i got some conflicting information.
 
he told me that 12v systems weren't appropriate for cars of our size. i believe he also said the same about single pump setups (ocklasse's setup didn't cross my mind at the time).
 
i initially wanted to do a 1-3 12v system because i am more interested in the properties that make it ideal for driving low than the adjustability aspect. any thoughts on this brandon?
 
he recommended a 2-4 and 24v or more for the ucf10.[/QUOTE]

Well, here's what I know...

I believe that 12 volts [B]should[/B] work, but it will be very slow and is very unconventional. I point to this Skipper vid:

[URL]http://www.skipper.co.jp/products/hyd/index.php[/URL]

The reason they recommend two pump setups is because of the issue with having enough oil. If you don't care about locking up your car, and only want to raise it a few inches, then a one pump setup should be fine...

I will double check all of this with Aaron at Hydroholics to still get his perspective.

As far as the 1-3, the reason you would not want to run this setup is that you would be using one dump per axle, and since the fluid is being shared from one side to the other, it will cause a lot of sway. A 1-4 or 1-5 would be the most basic setup I would recommend.

Once again, from a reliability standpoint, Aaron recommends what he has experience with as working best for certain applications. That doesn't mean something else couldn't be done, it's just that he has found a 2-4 with a minimum of 24 volts to be best suited for full-size sedans.

that 12v skipper speed looks great to me.
 
i think he did say the same thing about the 3 dump system, but it didn't stick. i'm curious as to how sway could occur if the fluid doesn't compress. in a coventional coil suspension the weight transfer compresses the spring but i thought this wasn't an issue with hydraulics (factor in high psi accumulators).

[QUOTE=BLKonBLK98;331456]that 12v skipper speed looks great to me.
 
i think he did say the same thing about the 3 dump system, but it didn't stick. i'm curious as to how sway could occur if the fluid doesn't compress. in a coventional coil suspension the weight transfer compresses the spring but i thought this wasn't an issue with hydraulics (factor in high psi accumulators).[/QUOTE]

It's because of the accumulator. When you go to take a turn, centripetal force will cause the fluid from the opposite corner to rush to the accumulator, causing extreme lean.

Keep in mind, only one accumulator is being used for the front axle on a 1-3.

makes perfect sense. overlooked the shared accumulator.

Been saving up for possibly going with hydro on the Cube.  For small kei cars like the Cube, what would I need to go up, down, and pancake?  I was thinking a 12v single pump, 3 dump, 3 accumulator setup would work but I really don't know too much about this yet.  I figured the rear could be on a single dump and accumulator since its a torsion bar suspension.

[QUOTE=tbrack;331846]Been saving up for possibly going with hydro on the Cube.  For small kei cars like the Cube, what would I need to go up, down, and pancake?  I was thinking a 12v single pump, 3 dump, 3 accumulator setup would work but I really don't know too much about this yet.  I figured the rear could be on a single dump and accumulator since its a torsion bar suspension.[/QUOTE]

Well, on a three dump manifold, one of the dumps is a return dump, so that really wouldn't work...you would need a one pump four dump minimum.

A 1-6 would be perfect considering you want pancake.

Ah I see.  Thanks for the clarification.  I will definitely be asking more questions when I can afford juice.

man.... i got juice on the mind....

so i would have to custom fabricate mount brackets since the rams are universal right? what would be my best solution? go to a shop that specializes in hydros and have them make my mounts?

just a few n00b questions.

[QUOTE=brainneeded;331854]man.... i got juice on the mind....

so i would have to custom fabricate mount brackets since the rams are universal right? what would be my best solution? go to a shop that specializes in hydros and have them make my mounts?

just a few n00b questions.[/QUOTE]

What's the factory setup look like? Is it for a Scion?

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;331855]What's the factory setup look like? Is it for a Scion?[/QUOTE]

yeah its for my scion, macphersons in the front and separated spring shock assembly and torsion bar in the rear. sorry for not being specific. would i eliminate the spring all together and just replace the rear shock with a ram as you would with a regular macpherson?

my suspension is the same as yours and I'm pretty sure the hydro ram would eliminate the spring with no problems.

[QUOTE=brainneeded;331900]yeah its for my scion, macphersons in the front and separated spring shock assembly and torsion bar in the rear. sorry for not being specific. would i eliminate the spring all together and just replace the rear shock with a ram as you would with a regular macpherson?[/QUOTE]

I can get you in contact with someone would could make a strut for the cylinders up front. PM me if you're interested.

well at this point it's more about me researching than actual execution. but i'll definitely keep that in mind. i'm just wondering how it works since actuators are universal.

[QUOTE=brainneeded;332031]well at this point it's more about me researching than actual execution. but i'll definitely keep that in mind. i'm just wondering how it works since actuators are universal.[/QUOTE]

Very simple.

Here's a Camaro that was just juiced...

[IMG]http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l344/tre5peter/2010%20Camaro/2010-06-22182107.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l344/tre5peter/2010%20Camaro/2010-06-22182100.jpg[/IMG]

That thing on top of the cylinder where it mounts is called a powerball and it gives the cylinder free movement.

WOW , thanks again OC , I am sure more members are also in the same boat.
Thanks for taking time to answer all of these questions that everyone else is asking since I am pretty much clueless to it.
Also I should clarify when I asked "what did you have to do to make them fit ?"
I meant the actual shocks/accumulators to your car or others which might have a conventional suspension setup.

this is definitley a great thread!  I would love to go for a ride in the car next time I'm in So Cal.  That setup looks sick in your trunk.

[QUOTE=SKperformance;332152]WOW , thanks again OC , I am sure more members are also in the same boat.
Thanks for taking time to answer all of these questions that everyone else is asking since I am pretty much clueless to it.
Also I should clarify when I asked "what did you have to do to make them fit ?"
I meant the actual shocks/accumulators to your car or others which might have a conventional suspension setup.[/QUOTE]

Oh ok...

Yeah, the cylinder always replaces the spring and shock :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=speedaddict;332181]this is definitley a great thread!  I would love to go for a ride in the car next time I'm in So Cal.  That setup looks sick in your trunk.[/QUOTE]

Anytime bruddah! Hit me up when you're in town :biggthumpup:

A+ thread. :biggthumpup:

I  have been checking out this thread and its very interesting.

I am interested in a setup for a y33/y34 and am using a bilstein insert that looks like this:

[URL="http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr191/Autech_Y34/Finepix038.jpg"]http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr191/Autech_Y34/Finepix038.jpg[/URL]

Question: Can the hydraulic ram/cylinder be modified to serve as an shock insert that bolts onto the bottom of strut housing?

Hmmm....

Well, typically on a MacPherson, the fitting comes from the bottom of the strut. I'm sure it can be done to accommodate what you're looking for, but I'm the wrong person to ask...

try [EMAIL="aaron@hydroholics.net"]aaron@hydroholics.net[/EMAIL] and he can help you out better with that particular question.

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;331111]Well, there has been a demand for this thread, and here it is.

I am here to answer all the questions, concerns, myths, stereotypes, and so on that come with hydraulic suspensions.

The reason it is dubbed a "hydropneumatic" suspension is because although hydraulics (oil) adjust the vehicle's height, it is really nitrogen-filled bladders called accumulators that dictate the firmness or softness of the ride. The pressure inside accumulators can be adjusted via a schrader valve.

So please, ask away, and let's have a more knowledgeable and informed community as to the different options for non-static suspensions. 

I am here solely to answer questions and concerns and not to hold a bias against any manufacturer or suspension-choice. I hope you, the consumer, can make an educated decision after having all of the knowledge and facts on hand :biggthumpup:[/QUOTE]

i saw this video [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5gAjcwJTyg&feature=related[/url]

looks like the ride of hyrdoholics is so soft, if i use this set up on my car can i adjust it? to make it more stiffer?

how low is this hydroholic can go? can we adjust the cyclinder mounting like a coilover?
[IMG]http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac229/orihino/hydrocylnder2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac229/orihino/hydrocylnder.jpg[/IMG]

about the ride height, when we driving using hydroholics are we able to adjust the ride height? like not very high and not too low (parking low), like in the middle?

or we can only go top high and parking low? (noob question)

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNQpDisEoTQ&feature=related[/url]

LS460 with one pump one battery SKIPPER

i think i already got the answer to my quetion about the 

accumulator, is the thing for adjusting the softness or stiffness of the ride, any pictures or video how to adjust the accumulator? how was the ride with 1500 psi?
stiff like racing coilover stiff or soft like stock benz Shock and Spring?

and about the ride height i think with hydroholics we can ridee at certain height that we want, correct?

havent got confirmation about the cylinder.

[youtube]qWWWDFN41fM[/youtube]

LEXUS IS 350 HYDRALICS SKIPPER 1 Pump 1 Batt

I'm really thinking about going juice.  I just want to ride in a car with hyros first.  Everything everyone has told me has been nothing but positive.  It also helps hydroholics is local to me and some friends of friends know Aaron.

[QUOTE=blackanese;339088]I'm really thinking about going juice.  I just want to ride in a car with hyros first.  Everything everyone has told me has been nothing but positive.  It also helps hydroholics is local to me and some friends of friends know Aaron.[/QUOTE]

Well, I will be going out to West Coast Nationals in Parker on the weekend of the 23rd of September. If you head out, I'd be more than happy to give you a ride in my car :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=LORD-ORI;338665]i saw this video [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5gAjcwJTyg&feature=related[/URL]

looks like the ride of hyrdoholics is so soft, if i use this set up on my car can i adjust it? to make it more stiffer?

how low is this hydroholic can go? can we adjust the cyclinder mounting like a coilover?
[IMG]http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac229/orihino/hydrocylnder2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac229/orihino/hydrocylnder.jpg[/IMG]

about the ride height, when we driving using hydroholics are we able to adjust the ride height? like not very high and not too low (parking low), like in the middle?

or we can only go top high and parking low? (noob question)[/QUOTE]

There is on-the-fly adjustability at any time.

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;339328]Well, I will be going out to West Coast Nationals in Parker on the weekend of the 23rd of September. If you head out, I'd be more than happy to give you a ride in my car :biggthumpup:[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately I will not be out there but thank you for the offer.

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;339329]There is on-the-fly adjustability at any time.[/QUOTE]

ok, still about the ride height, in airsuspension we can know our ride height from aamount of psi from the gauge inside the car, needle gauge or digital example if we like rear 60 front 70 we can adjust it again like that tommorow just by putting the same air like yesterday and sometimes to make it easier there is auto pilot remote, that can set the ride height that we want when we turn on the car,

my question is, what about hydrolics? how to put the ride the same height as yesterday height or our favorite height everyday, does we have to go out of the car and check the height everytime before we go..

again (noob question)

[QUOTE=LORD-ORI;339416]ok, still about the ride height, in airsuspension we can know our ride height from aamount of psi from the gauge inside the car, needle gauge or digital example if we like rear 60 front 70 we can adjust it again like that tommorow just by putting the same air like yesterday and sometimes to make it easier there is auto pilot remote, that can set the ride height that we want when we turn on the car,

my question is, what about hydrolics? how to put the ride the same height as yesterday height or our favorite height everyday, does we have to go out of the car and check the height everytime before we go..

again (noob question)[/QUOTE]

Well, there are two ways...

1. I have no "gauges" per se that tell me what height I am at. I always know my approximate height, and I am fine with that. It comes with having them. You learn to know what height you're at, if you're uneven, etc.

2. In theory, an Accuair brain could be retrofitted to work with a hydraulic setup. Its basic principle is the same as to how it works, regardless of if it's hydraulic or pneumatic. It would have to be a slow setup, maybe 12 volts or so, but it would work.

[QUOTE=eyedea;332227]I  have been checking out this thread and its very interesting.

I am interested in a setup for a y33/y34 and am using a bilstein insert that looks like this:

[URL="http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr191/Autech_Y34/Finepix038.jpg"]http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr191/Autech_Y34/Finepix038.jpg[/URL]

Question: Can the hydraulic ram/cylinder be modified to serve as an shock insert that bolts onto the bottom of strut housing?[/QUOTE]

You can but it is more work

I mounted my cylinders in my flt-a2
[IMG]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/K24RD6/hydros/lefttinsm.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/K24RD6/hydros/passsidetopmountsm.jpg[/IMG]


Anyone around AZ sept 23-25 needs to go to WCN. There will alot of cars with hydraulics to check out and maybe get a ride in. The Aon and Hydroholic guys are great people with vast knowledge to learn from.

Look forward to seeing you in a month, Ryan!

so question
what if you want a coilover ride, at all heights
does the ride quality change as height changes, or is it a constant linear stiff/softness?

if i want to have it like a 20/22k type firmness, is it possible? or does it cause increased wear because of it?

[QUOTE=FLSImages;339846]so question
what if you want a coilover ride, at all heights
does the ride quality change as height changes, or is it a constant linear stiff/softness?

if i want to have it like a 20/22k type firmness, is it possible? or does it cause increased wear because of it?[/QUOTE]

Well, playing with the accumulator charge will yield different ride characteristics. Just a matter of trying different pressures to find that sweet spot.

Keep in mind (for anyone looking to run hydraulics) that it takes a while for the cylinders to break in. It can even take up to eight weeks for the seals to really start doing their job. This is normal for a very, very firm ride at first. The more one drives, the sooner it will break in.

so from my understanding, by changing accumulator pressure you can alter what is in essence the spring rate, but how can you change the shock (piston?)'s  dampening characteristics similar to how you can revalve a damper?

or am i totally out there?

Why have I seen some systems run WITH springs and others not?  At Matt's shop tonight there was an Impala that still had what looked like "helper" springs...much smaller in diameter etc, than a normal spring.  What is the purpose and when would they be used??

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;339936]Well, playing with the accumulator charge will yield different ride characteristics. Just a matter of trying different pressures to find that sweet spot.

Keep in mind (for anyone looking to run hydraulics) that it takes a while for the cylinders to break in. It can even take up to eight weeks for the seals to really start doing their job. This is normal for a very, very firm ride at first. The more one drives, the sooner it will break in.[/QUOTE]
but if ride comfot is hte very last thing you want, but instead to be super stiff so oyu can drive at the lowest height you can, is this a good alternatie to UAS and coils?

[QUOTE=elpresidente;339950]Why have I seen some systems run WITH springs and others not? At Matt's shop tonight there was an Impala that still had what looked like "helper" springs...much smaller in diameter etc, than a normal spring. What is the purpose and when would they be used??[/QUOTE]
 
Mike,
 
Did those setups have accumulators as well? Typically lowrider guys use springs with no accumulators because accumulators slow down the system. 
 
These cars tend to have a very bouncy ride (imagine a car with blown shocks), because there is no rebound that the accumulators give. 
 
Basically, if you run accumulators, you don't need springs.

[QUOTE=FLSImages;339951]but if ride comfot is hte very last thing you want, but instead to be super stiff so oyu can drive at the lowest height you can, is this a good alternatie to UAS and coils?[/QUOTE]
 
Well, a hydraulic setup without springs or accumulators has essentially no suspension...
 
The lower the car is, the less effect the accumulators have. If you run very high pressure in the accumulator, as well as drive dumped, it will be fine.

[QUOTE=PureDrifter;339948]so from my understanding, by changing accumulator pressure you can alter what is in essence the spring rate, but how can you change the shock (piston?)'s dampening characteristics similar to how you can revalve a damper?
 
or am i totally out there?[/QUOTE]
 
The accumulator acts as a spring and shock together per se.

Very cool and unique setup from a guy in the UK
 
[URL]http://stanceworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9386&highlight=hydraulic[/URL]
 
[IMG]http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww191/alexelford/hydromech.jpg[/IMG]

are those accumulators?

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;339988]Well, a hydraulic setup without springs or accumulators has essentially no suspension...
 
The lower the car is, the less effect the accumulators have. If you run very high pressure in the accumulator, as well as drive dumped, it will be fine.[/QUOTE]
is there like a threshold where it is too stiff for a traditional setup?
i know that straight up hydros nad dumps and pumps sucks to drive, ive done it. but i would want something i can drift on. its either put UAS on my coils i have now (BC on a miata) or go to hydros. not sure which one i want yet

Brandon where is the dump and return on that setup? There is a solenoid on the side of the block but I dont see a line attached to it. 
Is that a check valve off the pressure port? 

It looks a 4 dump block with a single line to fill and return which means no check valve. The fluid travels between the wheel and trunk cylinders to compress the springs. That seems like alot of pressure on the cage tubing. I wonder if there is anything to slow the fluid transer like inside of a shock.

i don't know what is wrong with hydroholics CS , on 22nd august i complaining why did aaron never reply my email , than after that he reply on 23rd and explain that he've been out of town on business , i reply him back on 23rd and till now no other reply from him. :pat:

Well, I know his laptop at home recently crashed on him and he has yet to get a new one.

Ask away here, and I'll answer for you. Give him some breathing room...

can you do a setup for my 1960 ford starliner?  This is so ill...

[QUOTE=speedaddict;340430]can you do a setup for my 1960 ford starliner?  This is so ill...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, of course. Hydraulics are completely universal.

Just a few questions....considering this option down the line.

With my G35 it has the springs on the shocks up front and in the rear there is the shock and the spring separately in a spring bucket. Since I have a toe arm, I'm running the spring on the shock in the rear. If went with air suspension, I'd need that spring bucket for the air bag, thus, having to modify the spring bucket (cutting and welding an extension) so that I can keep my extreme negative camber. With juice, I'm assuming I wouldn't need that spring bucket correct?

Is it possible to make it so that the car doesn't go up and fast like yours? My wheels don't tuck, rather they land on the tire. I'd want to be careful so that I don't damage the body.

When adjusting the stiffness, how much travel is there approx? Say if fender to wheel gap is about an inch and coming across a dip on the freeway, not one of those midget ones, but something that has a lil "umph" to it.

What are the chances of oil leaking and making a mess?

Any potential electrical issues? Or perhaps electrical issues with the car affecting it?

What is the approximate cost (or range) for a setup like yours with install?

[QUOTE=donpisto;340606]Just a few questions....considering this option down the line.

With my G35 it has the springs on the shocks up front and in the rear there is the shock and the spring separately in a spring bucket. Since I have a toe arm, I'm running the spring on the shock in the rear. If went with air suspension, I'd need that spring bucket for the air bag, thus, having to modify the spring bucket (cutting and welding an extension) so that I can keep my extreme negative camber. With juice, I'm assuming I wouldn't need that spring bucket correct?

Is it possible to make it so that the car doesn't go up and fast like yours? My wheels don't tuck, rather they land on the tire. I'd want to be careful so that I don't damage the body.

When adjusting the stiffness, how much travel is there approx? Say if fender to wheel gap is about an inch and coming across a dip on the freeway, not one of those midget ones, but something that has a lil "umph" to it.

What are the chances of oil leaking and making a mess?

Any potential electrical issues? Or perhaps electrical issues with the car affecting it?

What is the approximate cost (or range) for a setup like yours with install?[/QUOTE]

Yo,

I hope I answer all of your questions. Let me know if I don't.

The hydraulic cylinder takes the place of the shock, so it shouldn't be an issue for the rear.

As far as you asking about speed, if you run one 12 volt battery, that is about the equivalent of a pneumatic vehicle with 1/4" lines.

With your question regarding the tire hitting the fender, Hydroholics cylinders are threaded, meaning you can adjust the sleeve and donut to any height desired. In other words, you can restrict how low the car can get. This means if you hit a dip, it should not go lower than this point either. Essentially the sleeve and donut prevent the cylinder from going through the shock tower.

If there is a proper install with all of the lines ran correctly, there should be no leaks and no mess. On cars with accumulators, it is normal to get dime size residual drips coming from the cylinders. This is only residual oil from the movement of the shaft (no homo) and not a leak.

As far as electrical issues, if everything is grounded correctly you will have zero problems. Especially if you run low voltage such as 12 and 24 volts. I even have 36 volts and have yet to have any runaways or anything of that nature.

A setup like mine is around $3500-$4,000 installed with the bells and whistles.

Got it all on point. Say if the lowest I want it to go is just above the tire, say 5mm above. Driving at that height, what happens if I go over a bump or angle into a driveway since there is hardly any room for travel? I pretty much want to drive it as low as possible and raise when there is a big dip, bump, etc. But say if I'm riding at that very low point and I'm not on a completely flat road, little bumps here and there would typically cause some travel.

As for the residual drips, how often does that have to be cleaned out and where does it get messy? Reason I'm curious is because as in your setup, it's covered up and if it's where the pump is, wouldn't it make it a PITA to access?

I thought cost would be less as well since I thought I read somewhere, either here or on the Hydroholics webpage, that they usually cost less than air suspension...but it didn't specify so maybe that's why? I know with UAS you can get the kit and have it installed for 3000-3500.

[QUOTE=donpisto;340789]Got it all on point. Say if the lowest I want it to go is just above the tire, say 5mm above. Driving at that height, what happens if I go over a bump or angle into a driveway since there is hardly any room for travel? I pretty much want to drive it as low as possible and raise when there is a big dip, bump, etc. But say if I'm riding at that very low point and I'm not on a completely flat road, little bumps here and there would typically cause some travel.
 
As for the residual drips, how often does that have to be cleaned out and where does it get messy? Reason I'm curious is because as in your setup, it's covered up and if it's where the pump is, wouldn't it make it a PITA to access?
 
I thought cost would be less as well since I thought I read somewhere, either here or on the Hydroholics webpage, that they usually cost less than air suspension...but it didn't specify so maybe that's why? I know with UAS you can get the kit and have it installed for 3000-3500.[/QUOTE]
 
Well, if you set the donut to rest at its lowest point, it will not get any lower than that, including on a bump.
 
The drips are from the cylinders and not from the trunk. You would would see little drips where you park the car. I have carpet pieces under my tires, so I never get any leaks on the ground. The drips are caused by movement though, and since you'll be so low with very little movement, you will have signifcantly less than someone like me for example.
 
My setup retails for around $1800. Anything on top of that, meaning hardline, batteries, misc. hardware, installation will affect the price.

Oh ok I see...so basically if you wanted in your setup, you can ride it as low as it goes and it won't "compress" (in reference to a spring setup) any more than what it's at. Correct?

As for installation, did you do it locally or at Hydroholics. What's the approx cost on just install you think?

Any battery in particular needed? Or would something like this be sufficient?
[url]http://odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc2150series.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=donpisto;340810]Oh ok I see...so basically if you wanted in your setup, you can ride it as low as it goes and it won't "compress" (in reference to a spring setup) any more than what it's at. Correct?

As for installation, did you do it locally or at Hydroholics. What's the approx cost on just install you think?

Any battery in particular needed? Or would something like this be sufficient?
[URL]http://odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc2150series.htm[/URL][/QUOTE]

Need it be, It could be installed out here in OC, or there are great people in AZ as well!

Any deep cycle marine works. Cheapest around would be the Kirkland brand. I personally use Kinetik 1800s. They work great.

I'm more than likely going to run a 1/6 or 2/6 setup in my Q. Just seems easier, it's sick, and I haven't owned anything juiced yet. 

I got a guy with a complete, barely used, Pro Hopper setup for $600. But with all the additions i'd want, and need, I may as well scoop up new Hydroholics gear. 

Wish I could make it to Parker (West Coast Nationals). I know a few of the guys out here will be making it.

Also, that setup from the guy in the UK... the pump looks almost like a wheelchair lift pump like we have on buses.

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;340841]Need it be, It could be installed out here in OC, or there are great people in AZ as well!

Any deep cycle marine works. Cheapest around would be the Kirkland brand. I personally use Kinetik 1800s. They work great.[/QUOTE]

I used to have an HC1400 in my previous car. Great for using with the vehicle off. I have Optimas now and they're decent, but I loved my Odyssey batteries when I had them. I'd really wanna go with BatCap's but too damn expensive even with a sponsorship.

Would it be cool if I stopped by sometime and checked out your ride? Won't be for a couple of months, but I'd like to check it out and see how it rides.

[QUOTE=donpisto;340858]I used to have an HC1400 in my previous car. Great for using with the vehicle off. I have Optimas now and they're decent, but I loved my Odyssey batteries when I had them. I'd really wanna go with BatCap's but too damn expensive even with a sponsorship.

Would it be cool if I stopped by sometime and checked out your ride? Won't be for a couple of months, but I'd like to check it out and see how it rides.[/QUOTE]

Any 12 volt-style battery will work. 

Of course you can stop by! Anytime! I'd love to see your stripper pole....err...I mean car in action! :giggity:

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;340841]Need it be, It could be installed out here in OC, or there are great people in AZ as well!

Any deep cycle marine works. Cheapest around would be the Kirkland brand. I personally use Kinetik 1800s. They work great.[/QUOTE]

would the 1 pump 5 dump kit work good on a w124 wagon? also when you add [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][COLOR=#ffffff]Accumulators does it come with 4? thanks[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=Speedracervroom;340899]would the 1 pump 5 dump kit work good on a w124 wagon? also when you add [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][COLOR=#ffffff]Accumulators does it come with 4? thanks[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Yeah, a 1-5 would be perfect on a 124...essentially the same suspension I have I believe.

Yes, you must use four accumulators, one per corner.

[QUOTE=xseveredveganx;340856]I'm more than likely going to run a 1/6 or 2/6 setup in my Q. Just seems easier, it's sick, and I haven't owned anything juiced yet. 

I got a guy with a complete, barely used, Pro Hopper setup for $600. But with all the additions i'd want, and need, I may as well scoop up new Hydroholics gear. 

Wish I could make it to Parker (West Coast Nationals). I know a few of the guys out here will be making it.

Also, that setup from the guy in the UK... the pump looks almost like a wheelchair lift pump like we have on buses.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, wish you could make it out to West Coast! I'm excited to be there this year!

As far as that guy from the UK, you're definitely right about that...it's a very unique setup. I dig it!

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;340898]Any 12 volt-style battery will work. 

Of course you can stop by! Anytime! I'd love to see your stripper pole....err...I mean car in action! :giggity:[/QUOTE]

Lol, sounds good. Once I get this damn restriction off my license I'll be able. 5 more weeks. Woo!!!

so when you buy the kit from hydroholics and add [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][COLOR=#ffffff]Accumulators they give you 4 correct? 
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=Speedracervroom;340903]so when you buy the kit from hydroholics and add [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=2][COLOR=#ffffff]Accumulators they give you 4 correct? 
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Yes.

This thread is great. I learned alot. My past experiences with juice was a bumpy as hell ride and poor ride quality. But it looks/sounds like newer technology or different ways of setting it up can make it ride much better. Here is my question:

Can we get a side by side price comparison to a comparable air suspension setup? Basically, how much does the juice cost??? hahahaha. Thanks

[QUOTE=CrazyHawaiian;342160]This thread is great. I learned alot. My past experiences with juice was a bumpy as hell ride and poor ride quality. But it looks/sounds like newer technology or different ways of setting it up can make it ride much better. Here is my question:
 
Can we get a side by side price comparison to a comparable air suspension setup? Basically, how much does the juice cost??? hahahaha. Thanks[/QUOTE]
 
Aloha :biggthumpup:
 
Juice, like anything else, has different price points. At the lower end of the spectrum would be Black Magic, and at the higher end of the market would be Hydroholics. 
 
Black Magic makes a great product, but it's geared towards the lowrider community. Hydroholics was formed because up until their inception, there was not a hydraulic company with reliability and comfort as its number one priority. Hydroholics is for daily driven vehicles.
 
Hydroholics also offers manifolds for use with single pumps. A one pump setup in most situations is all that would be required. This makes for a smaller, cleaner setup.
 
A complete Hydroholics one pump five dump setup is approximately $1600 with accumulators. What would be added in addition to this would be the amount of batteries ran, and the installation with required parts. Generally, expect to pay around $3,500 for a complete, clean setup.

what is the shortest actuator possible? Debating putting this on my miata....but the shocks are remarkably short.

[QUOTE=FLSImages;342940]what is the shortest actuator possible? Debating putting this on my miata....but the shocks are remarkably short.[/QUOTE]
 
If by actuator you mean cylinder, then 8" cylinders. What suspension setup do Miatas have?

[img]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4024/4592177144_5e01b08cb8_b.jpg[/img]


the springs mounted iirc are 170mm on the rear


i dont have a measurement, but if i had to guess maybe 14" total length? they are rediculously small..like inches of travel
thats why im asking about stiffness. id like to just put hydro on if i can get the characteristics i want since it has an iron block 302 in the front of it. and my parents house has like 4 inch speedbumps and ive demolished 1 bumper and sideskirts, in a month, and they are quite expensive to replace. I have UAS sitting at the house from my stepwgn, but nto sure if i want to use it

Looks to me like it would be a very, very simple install. Heims on the bottom of the cylinders and adjustable sleeves with mini donuts. Done.

As far as stiffness is concerned, it would be a matter of playing with the charge on the accumulators. Would you plan on laying it out parked or just at the height you're currently at?

[IMG]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4008/4676760485_500f689e4f_b.jpg[/IMG]
current height (amost no body roll, so its not like all weird super low or anything in that pic)
id like to drive and park a lil lower, not caring to lay frame honestly, just want to be able to go 3-4 inches up to clear these speedbumps honestly. same as with the air on the y33

static for reference
[IMG]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4676731917_9e410c0aa7_b.jpg[/IMG]
[img]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4654184261_876978a4d3_b.jpg[/img]
fat tires in front make it high

Would love to see that thing juiced!

me too, but cost is almost everything, since i have half a UAS kit. all i need is a pair of bags really. i have the f+r manifold from the stepwgn and all other parts..so its all relative ya know.

Ill have to talk with them and see how much its gonna be. Ill also have to swap to a fuel cell and put this where the normal gas tank is dependin gon weight.

[QUOTE=FLSImages;343356]me too, but cost is almost everything, since i have half a UAS kit. all i need is a pair of bags really. i have the f+r manifold from the stepwgn and all other parts..so its all relative ya know.

Ill have to talk with them and see how much its gonna be. Ill also have to swap to a fuel cell and put this where the normal gas tank is dependin gon weight.[/QUOTE]

I think a little juice would make this car act like and animal. That would be nice. So you need bags for the front?

just a pair . i alrady have two

been readin all night, i think i found my suspension :D ocklasse you have pm btw

Replied, bruddah! =)

So far, so good in the sub zero temperatures.  We'll see how she holds up over the winter here.

Awesome, Mike!

Running AW32, right?

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;360797]Awesome, Mike!

Running AW32, right?[/QUOTE]Yes, non-detergent.

Did a great job holding this down OCKlasse

I've been a major proponent of Hydraulics since... hell since before Air was the Norm around here. LOL! Keep knocking down the stereotypes! 

The thing i love about it, is that it doesn't matter how high or low you are... as long as you don't max out the accumulators, it rides exactly the same.

Mike, you're running Dro's now too? Dammit! Everybody is getting it before me! I need to get off my ass and get some things done!

Care to PM me some vids of it, Mike? Always wanted to see a Jag move around :D

Time to step up! :naughty:

how long will it take to juice a w140 benz.....with same set-up like urs...

[QUOTE=JUICEDW140;370748]how long will it take to juice a w140 benz.....with same set-up like urs...[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22351[/url]

Length? You could do it all in one weekend if you really wanted to...

[QUOTE=JUICEDW140;370748]how long will it take to juice a w140 benz.....with same set-up like urs...[/QUOTE]
=)
[QUOTE=OCKlasse;370878]Length? You could do it all in one weekend if you really wanted to...[/QUOTE]
whaddabout a w210...:giggity:

One weekend. Easily =D

Sorry...I meant how long to juice it by hydroholics....

OC what size rim and tire and offset u run on ur Benz......

19 * 8.5 28
19 * 9.5 23
 
You mean if you want Hydroholics to install it? Contact Aaron...
 
[EMAIL="aaron@hydroholics.net"]aaron@hydroholics.net[/EMAIL]

Do they make vehicle specific cylinders or are they all custom made from a universal part?

They are not vehicle specific.  But they are not difficult to make useful in any ANY car...I think my Jag is evidence enough..especially if you saw how bizarre my factory suspension was.

i think i asked before, but i wasn't too sure about the answer, for macphersons, basically you chop the low retaining portion and weld it onto the cylinders? is that how it would work?

[QUOTE=brainneeded;371763]i think i asked before, but i wasn't too sure about the answer, for macphersons, basically you chop the low retaining portion and weld it onto the cylinders? is that how it would work?[/QUOTE]
There is different options that can either bolt up or be welded.  On mine it was welded up front (bizarre setup w/ factory forks) and bolted in the back (McPherson w/ spherical rods/heim joints).

What's the deal with all the batteries you see in lowriders? Will I need that many extra batteries in the trunk of my LS400?

No, I have 3 batteries in my trunk.  One is my regular car battery (stock location in my car) and the other two are deep cycle marine batteries (24v) for my suspension.  I run a street charger to trickle charge the two batteries as I drive.  Have never had to recharge or touch the batteries yet.

The more batteries you have, the faster the suspension will go up. I was going to run a single battery with the setup I was going to put on my Jag.

i saw the skipper setups are 12v. speed looks fine to me for my use.

I have 36 volts cause I'm switch happy =)

OC what tire size ur running....thanks

sneek peek.....

i think some of us are considering hydros for a stiff ride more so than comfortable ride quality.  me for isntance, i want an adjustable suspension that retains coilover like characteristics..i want to ride low with the equivalent of a 22kg effective spring rate and i want to ride raised up with the same.  what i take away from this thread is that it IS possible by putting the accumulators at a high psi...my question, if i am correct in my previous observation, is how does this affect reliability, maintanence?  
 
also, how is body roll with the accumulators "maxed out" and how often do you have to charge batteries.

[QUOTE=BAHC;372095]also, how is body roll with the accumulators "maxed out" and how often do you have to charge batteries.[/QUOTE]
It'll respond like a stiff spring with hard damping.  And if you run a street charger you won't have to charge the batteries.

From looking at it, am I correct in surmising that this is essentially the same sort of system, albeit electrically driven and with finer, more specific manual controls, as you would find in the big Citroens?

Yes. Although not quite as sophisticated.

Great thread Brandon. 

Im curious, how do you keep your alignment? On freeway driving at a preferred ride height, how do you get Or keep your wheel alignment?

[QUOTE=z168;378477]Great thread Brandon. 

Im curious, how do you keep your alignment? On freeway driving at a preferred ride height, how do you get Or keep your wheel alignment?[/QUOTE]

 Thanks =) Fancy to see you around these parts. Congrats on the 140 pickup!

Well...I get my car aligned at the approximate height I drive at. It's not perfect, but it's close.  

[B]OR...  [/B]

You can utilize something called the E-Leveling system from Accuair. It is a self-leveling unit, similar to Airmatic, that can be retrofitted to cars with either hydraulics (certain setups) or bags. It will always bring you to one of three preset heights, and readjusts for weight differences, etc. to within 1/8 of an inch :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;378707]Thanks =) Fancy to see you around these parts. Congrats on the 140 pickup!

Well...I get my car aligned at the approximate height I drive at. It's not perfect, but it's close.  

[B]OR...  [/B]

You can utilize something called the E-Leveling system from Accuair. It is a self-leveling unit, similar to Airmatic, that can be retrofitted to cars with either hydraulics (certain setups) or bags. It will always bring you to one of three preset heights, and readjusts for weight differences, etc. to within 1/8 of an inch :biggthumpup:[/QUOTE]

It was a hard decision, but then again it wasnt :giggity:

Yea just trying to get new ideas haha. Noted on the alignment cool

Very informative.....


[url]http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneous/hydraulics/hydraulics-1.html[/url]

any plans for an 8 or 4 dump manifold from hydrohaulics?

No. Personally it makes more sense to run an eight dump without a manifold. That's actually where I want to take my setup next. 

4 checks, 4 slows, eight dumps. A true four pump equivalent with no fluid transfer.

[QUOTE=JUICEDW140;379050]Very informative.....


[URL]http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneous/hydraulics/hydraulics-1.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

Definitely a great site. I keep it in my bookmarks and look at it from time to time.

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;379100]No. Personally it makes more sense to run an eight dump without a manifold. That's actually where I want to take my setup next. 
 
4 checks, 4 slows, eight dumps. A true four pump equivalent with no fluid transfer.[/QUOTE]
 
what are the benefits over individual dumps vs. manifold in our application?

[QUOTE=OG;379137]what are the benefits over individual dumps vs. manifold in our application?[/QUOTE]

Well, if you run an eight dump manifold, there are four lift dumps and four drop dumps. Between the lift dumps in a manifold, you cannot run check valves, so there is fluid transfer within the manifold. Running individual dumps, you can place a check between each lift dump, and have no fluid transfer between the dumps.

This would work ideal for an Accuair-type system, because when one corner needs to be lifted, it can be without another corner being affected. Does this make sense? :shrug:

If not running the individual dumps, then an eight dump manifold is more neat-looking than functionally necessary. Running a setup like mine is the same as running an eight dump manifold pretty much.

I'm jus gonna dump this here.
Found this video to be intresting. If I were to rock a hydro setup, I'd want to get ride of mechanical/transformer hydro sound, and I'd want it to have a slow response going up and down. In this video you can sorta get a since of how stiff this setup can be and it shows a Hydro set up w/ a slow response


[YOUTUBE]6xWPz1w9vLM[/YOUTUBE]

If you notice that it makes sound at first but isn't really moving, that's because it has to fill the accumulators before it goes to fill the cylinders. 

My guess is that's a 24 volt setup with getting dead batteries...

Interesting system.  I'm sure some of what I'm about to ask have been answered but didnt feel like weeding through 7 pages of post.

1) What would I be looking at for a system that just does up/down no S/S or F/B?
2) Will a 12V system be viable on an LS430?
3) One thing that concerns me with air is load leveling.  I'm guessing this would not be an issue with a hydro-pneumatic system?
4) Is there anyone who makes brackets/adapters to fit the cylinders to an LS430?

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=HiloDB1;384645]Interesting system.  I'm sure some of what I'm about to ask have been answered but didnt feel like weeding through 7 pages of post.

1) What would I be looking at for a system that just does up/down no S/S or F/B?
2) Will a 12V system be viable on an LS430?
3) One thing that concerns me with air is load leveling.  I'm guessing this would not be an issue with a hydro-pneumatic system?
4) Is there anyone who makes brackets/adapters to fit the cylinders to an LS430?

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

Aloha,

1) A two pump four dump or one pump six dump would by my recommendations...you'll always have f/b/s/s...
2) Guys in Japan run big vehicles on just 12v, so shouldn't be a problem
3) A two pump four dump or one pump eight dump setup would not have load leveling issues.
4) It would be easy enough to have struts made to fit your car. PM me and I could forward you to the right people.

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;385098]Aloha,

1) A two pump four dump or one pump six dump would by my recommendations...you'll always have f/b/s/s...
2) Guys in Japan run big vehicles on just 12v, so shouldn't be a problem
3) A two pump four dump or one pump eight dump setup would not have load leveling issues.
4) It would be easy enough to have struts made to fit your car. PM me and I could forward you to the right people.[/QUOTE]
Thank for answering my question :biggthumpup:

So looks like a 1 pump 6 dump system on 12V is what Im interested in.

Yeah...personally if it were me with a big LS, I'd run a one pump eight dump on 24 volts. That would be Da Kine setup for you.

Especially if you ever wanted to run an Accuair E Leveling system.

Dang B, still holding it down in here... :D

[QUOTE=Avantgarde;386419]Dang B, still holding it down in here... :D[/QUOTE]

:eekwiggle:

Hmm what would you need to do to get an AccuAir E-Level to work with a 1 pump 8 dump system?

[QUOTE=HiloDB1;386867]Hmm what would you need to do to get an AccuAir E-Level to work with a 1 pump 8 dump system?[/QUOTE]

You'd have to figure out the wire output for the valves then hook them up to the dumps, T off the "raise" Dump wire to activate the Solenoids, and figure out how to regulate the voltage to 12 when all 4 power wires request the Solenoids to activate for the pump.

dump is pretty simple.

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;379100]No. Personally it makes more sense to run an eight dump without a manifold. That's actually where I want to take my setup next. 

4 checks, 4 slows, eight dumps. A true four pump equivalent with no fluid transfer.[/QUOTE]

I originally planned for that, but i figured your bro's 5 dump was 4 pump equivalent.

I talk to him and he said there as minimal fluid transfer but the flow path always kinda made no sense to me if there was no fluid transfer lol.



like if one side is heavier than the other, then one will raise faster than the other.

[QUOTE=HiloDB1;386867]Hmm what would you need to do to get an AccuAir E-Level to work with a 1 pump 8 dump system?[/QUOTE]

Very simple. An 8 dump system works the same as an air setup's 8 dump manifold. The only difference is now you need to also turn the motor on when you want to lift the car.

Here's my Accuair SwitchSpeed controller on my 1 pump 6 dump setup. MUCH more complicated...

[URL="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v338/trefive/?action=view&current=3c0b7294.mp4"][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/trefive/th_3c0b7294.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[QUOTE=Avantgarde;386870]I originally planned for that, but i figured your bro's 5 dump was 4 pump equivalent.

I talk to him and he said there as minimal fluid transfer but the flow path always kinda made no sense to me if there was no fluid transfer lol.



like if one side is heavier than the other, then one will raise faster than the other.[/QUOTE]

This is correct.

[QUOTE=Avantgarde;386869]You'd have to figure out the wire output for the valves then hook them up to the dumps, T off the "raise" Dump wire to activate the Solenoids, and figure out how to regulate the voltage to 12 when all 4 power wires request the Solenoids to activate for the pump.

dump is pretty simple.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;386987]Very simple. An 8 dump system works the same as an air setup's 8 dump manifold. The only difference is now you need to also turn the motor on when you want to lift the car.

Here's my Accuair SwitchSpeed controller on my 1 pump 6 dump setup. MUCH more complicated...

[URL="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v338/trefive/?action=view&current=3c0b7294.mp4"][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/trefive/th_3c0b7294.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]
Sounds good.  So no need for any extra valves/dumps?  I would just need to rewire the controller to the different dumps?  This system is looking better and better :dance:

[QUOTE=HiloDB1;386999]Sounds good.  So no need for any extra valves/dumps?  I would just need to rewire the controller to the different dumps?  This system is looking better and better :dance:[/QUOTE]

No...just some relays and diodes...

My box is very complex, but yours would be much simpler. Here is an example why:

Lift Front Left Corner:


[LIST]
[*]1-8: power motor, open single dump (same as air manifold, only now you need to power the motor)
[*]1-6: power motor, open all other corner dumps except for front left
[/LIST]

How much amperage does one pump use at full power?
Was looking at the Hydroholics website and they dont have an 8 dump manifold or 4 dumps.  Would you know if they make one?

[QUOTE=HiloDB1;387210]How much amperage does one pump use at full power?
Was looking at the Hydroholics website and they dont have an 8 dump manifold or 4 dumps.  Would you know if they make one?[/QUOTE]

They don't. You actually would use eight individual dumps to make it. Manifolds don't come with checks in between the different pressure dumps, so there is still fluid transfer. You'd buy eight dumps, four HH slowdowns, and then four non-HH check valves, as they're just too big...

Someone was asking me about the rams from Hydroholics and how they would mount in an application where youd need a pillow ball mount at top and heim at bottom

[QUOTE] sound  easy but you have an issue with the pillow ball mounts.. look at those  rams im pretty sure the port for the fitting is on the top of the  housing.. your pillow ball mount will bolt or supposed to bolt to the  top.. if you have a fitting there how is the pillow ball mount going to bolt up.. or are the cyl ports on the side? 
[/QUOTE]

On a MacPherson application, there is a powerball on top and the fitting is on the bottom. On my car, I have a heim on the bottom and the fitting goes through the shock tower up top.

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;387251]On my car, I have a heim on the bottom and the fitting goes through the shock tower up top.[/QUOTE]
So how is it mounted on the top?  Usually on a coil over setup you have a heim on the bottom and a pillow ball mount at the top shock tower mount.

In that case, it's a heim on the bottom and the cylinder goes through the shock tower. A sleeve threads onto the HH cylinder, and a mini donut welded to the sleeve prevents the cylinder from going through.

[QUOTE=HiloDB1;387256]So how is it mounted on the top?  Usually on a coil over setup you have a heim on the bottom and a pillow ball mount at the top shock tower mount.[/QUOTE]

You need to make your own fitting  to fit through the bearing
[IMG]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/K24RD6/hydros/rearcylinderfitting.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/K24RD6/hydros/rearmountmounted.jpg[/IMG]

^he's on another level :smiley-rofl:

Been trying to contact Hydroholics to get more info.  Not sure but they have not emailed me back.

they're currently undergoing a transition in management iirc.

Yup. New owner.

I just talked to Hilo and told him I would get him in contact with HH

Im still here and trying to get this system going.  The logistics of this is getting out of hand for me.  Trying to simply this as much as possible to speed up the process.  Thanks for all your help OCKlasse

[QUOTE=HiloDB1;392090]Im still here and trying to get this system going.  The logistics of this is getting out of hand for me.  Trying to simply this as much as possible to speed up the process.  Thanks for all your help OCKlasse[/QUOTE]

:biggthumpup:

Logistics is pretty simple...let Jeremy build everything you need, have it shipped to you, and install it. Like I said, feel free to send me a plane ticket out, LOL

Very clean setup and excellent thread. Later.

I was wondering what was up I emailed them twice about pricing.

Just recently you emailed?

Email [email]josh@hydroholics.net[/email]

Dose hydroholics have a phone number i? I need to add a part to my order i placed yesterday. Just found out the kt i have came with 2 large and 2 small donuts. I need another 2 large donuts. I emailed them yesterday but they haven't called me back yet.

[email]josh@hydroholics.net[/email]

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;393319][email]josh@hydroholics.net[/email][/QUOTE]
thanks i just sent him an email earlier today.

still haven't received a response back for anyone at hydroholics. Im not to happy with the lack of customer service from this company. I sent another email today and the shop who is installing my kit sent an email with no response back.

Sucks to hear. I do not represent anyone there, and I'm sorry to hear that the new owner is not staying on top of sales.  Your last result can be to contact [email]tre5peter@cox.net[/email]. He is a sales rep of sorts for them...

[QUOTE=OCKlasse;394038]Sucks to hear. I do not represent anyone there, and I'm sorry to hear that the new owner is not staying on top of sales.  Your last result can be to contact [email]tre5peter@cox.net[/email]. He is a sales rep of sorts for them...[/QUOTE]

finally got a call back today. We settled on a resolution. Parts were sent out today, were all good. Im not one to bash a company without them making an effort to help me out and they came through. I know you don't represent them and that your brother works for them. I have patience, i just get worried when i pay for parts and they don't come in and cant get a hold of anyone.

Actually, my brother was one of two founding partners. He has had no affiliation with HH now for over a year.

edit* found the answer to my questions in this thread

Hmmm Air Force Air or "juice". I would probably pick the juice deal if there was a plug-n-play UCF20 kit. Seems more reliable.

Only thing is, i'd rather have the raise/lower speed identical to a 1/4" air setup and not have the hydraulic sound.

Was going to edit my post and ditch the "Seems more reliable." statement since Air Force air uses a coilover... Making myself look stupid ftw.

Oh damn family been away for a minute...big things going on. Enuf from the pnut. Gallery. As u were=]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/trefive/063015a6.jpg[/IMG]

New project? Maybe =)

these guys still in business? was there ever any progress on the e-level juice?

How much would a 2 pump 6 dump with accumulators cost to install ?

[QUOTE=OG;433997]these guys still in business? was there ever any progress on the e-level juice?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, they're still in business. E-level will be what I do if I decide to juice mine =)

[QUOTE=chamorrodude;434028]How much would a 2 pump 6 dump with accumulators cost to install ?[/QUOTE]

Expect a good installer to charge around $1000-1500 in labor...

I know this thread is kinda old, but I thought I would bring it back. I have been installing hydraulics for a long time now. I did the install on the Camaro posted in this thread, and I have dealt with a few of you in the past and recently. I decided to start my own hydraulic company a little less than a year ago with the help of a freind. We have been up and running for a few months now and everything is going smoothly now. If you guys need anything or have any questions please let me know. Check out these two facebook pages for a ton of pics of setups I've installed and the new products we are manufacturing. Make sure to also check out our website and read up on the blogs. There are only two now, but I will always be adding more. 
Build pics on the Tre5 Customs facebook page:
[url]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tre5-Customs/117000834986331?ref=hl&bookmark_t=page[/url]
New product line with some more build pics:
[url]https://www.facebook.com/DiceSuspensionComponents[/url]
New website:
[url]www.DiceSuspensionComponents.com[/url]

The best hydraulic setup for use with AccuAir...one pump eight dump.

[URL]http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4641655209708.178102.1542914694&type=1[/URL]