THAT'S A BITCH MOVE!

I understand that the convo going on in this thread ([url]http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25764&page=5[/url]) was becoming off topic but I thought there was some valid points that were made and made for a good debate/covo for those that could handle it. As far as that thread though, I said what I needed to and moved on and was ready and looking forward to seeing this build.......This shit has nothing to do w/ homeboy's whip personally for me. It's his build and if that's how he wants to build his shit and makes him happy then that's all that matters at the end of the day. With any of our builds I hope the attitude for of us all is, do what makes "You" happy above all. 

I do believe there is and has been for awhile, a lot of FUCKERY going around on this forum and alot of members have expressed to me their dislikes in where this place is at and where it is going. It often feels like if you're not apart of liberty or any other group that if you express your opinion of dislike you're considered a "hater" or whatever you want to call it. I understand that urmyhero4now comment in that thread being deleted by elpres was to try and get the thread back on topic but I also feel that homeboy had every right to give his response and answer/defend/clear up or say what he had to. Pretty disrespectful and a bitch move that you can't allow him to at least say what he had to and leave it at that. 
And if I still had cat's reply, I'd post it.
Alot of bias bull shit and loose power control going on on this forum sometimes......

I'm not tryna start no bullshit but at the same time this is some real talk that I know alot of us feel around here but prefer to hold their tongues about it all.


Y'all feel free to use this thread to debate/discuss about whatever you want. Call it a rant thread for all I care. I jus want it to be noted that y'all on some bull shit and instead of making this a place where we can all learn from each other and share our thoughts and opinions, y'all mofos are starting to divide this community and forcing cats to take sides. 

At the end of the day this aint no competition, you aint better than the next person/car  and it aint no "GAME".

Had a strong feeling that would happen...hopefully this thread won't meet the same fate. 

I'd have to agree with most of what you're saying. There were some very valid points made in that post and he should have been allowed to express his own opinions, but at the end of the day, the mods have to do what they do in order to protect this site's vendors. Not saying that it's ok or that it's right, but hey, it's business. Or, I'm completely wrong and it's all about power tripping/taking sides...hoping it's not the latter.

I'm gonna start off by saying I have love for all individuals and teams doing this vip thing (no homo)
But there has been a whole lot of wack shit going on with this forum lately (abuse of power is one)

Seems like cats have thin skin when it comes to others opinions, if u can accept all the love and borderline dick riding that comes your way, then accept someones opinion for what it is without
Your whole crew getting tight ,no one attacked son personally they just stated their opinion, its only a car

that is why i don't post anymore...east coast think i am a hater, i posted back then that they will waste alot of fenders to get it right.

i still love vip though i visit this site daily.

Damn I missed it. =T

y yall mad tho?

it really is a helpless/hopeless situation 'round here right now. it's feeling real opressive.
 
everyone's opinion should be valued equally; whether you stand alone or have a group behind you, whether you are in power or are a citizen of the community.
 
facts should never come second to hype.
 
a member's build thread should not be used to promote a vendor's product/service outside of props said member choses to issue.
 
a vendor should not have the power to moderate opinions about his/her product/service.
 
an admin should be completely unbiased. the position should never be used to propogate personal agendas.
 
this shouldn't be an us against them scenario. we are all part of the same community and some of us have a lot of history that is being stressed by current events. we need to be united and represent our scene as a whole, not divided amongst ourselves with petty bs. this is going to require work on both sides, but the one's with the power also hold the lion's share of the responisbility.
 
i hope everyone takes steps to heal our wounds. let's get back to having fun, being a family. there's plenty of stress in the real world, this is supposed to be something we enjoy. love and respect to all the members of vsc. if i have a personal issue with you then i have my reasons, but you're still part of the fam. let's get back to where we're supposed ot be.

[QUOTE=OG;385307]it really is a helpless/hopeless situation 'round here right now. it's feeling real opressive.
 
everyone's opinion should be valued equally; whether you stand alone or have a group behind you, whether you are in power or are a citizen of the community.
 
facts should never come second to hype.
 
a member's build thread should not be used to promote a vendor's product/service outside of props said member choses to issue.
 
a vendor should not have the power to moderate opinions about his/her product/service.
 
an admin should be completely unbiased. the position should never be used to propogate personal agendas.
 
this shouldn't be an us against them scenario. we are all part of the same community and some of us have a lot of history that is being stressed by current events. we need to be united and represent our scene as a whole, not divided amongst ourselves with petty bs. this is going to require work on both sides, but the one's with the power also hold the lion's share of the responisbility.
 
i hope everyone takes steps to heal our wounds. let's get back to having fun, being a family. there's plenty of stress in the real world, this is supposed to be something we enjoy. love and respect to all the members of vsc. if i have a personal issue with you then i have my reasons, but you're still part of the fam. let's get back to where we're supposed ot be.[/QUOTE]



I agree 100% W/  this. Wait!.............wut?! LOL!
Mayne you've matured lol jk

[QUOTE=jeebus;385306]y yall mad tho?[/QUOTE]

Who is mad? Its just conversation / observations

[QUOTE=OG;385307]it really is a helpless/hopeless situation 'round here right now. it's feeling real opressive.
 
everyone's opinion should be valued equally; whether you stand alone or have a group behind you, whether you are in power or are a citizen of the community.
 
facts should never come second to hype.
 
a member's build thread should not be used to promote a vendor's product/service outside of props said member choses to issue.
 
a vendor should not have the power to moderate opinions about his/her product/service.
 
an admin should be completely unbiased. the position should never be used to propogate personal agendas.
 
this shouldn't be an us against them scenario. we are all part of the same community and some of us have a lot of history that is being stressed by current events. we need to be united and represent our scene as a whole, not divided amongst ourselves with petty bs. this is going to require work on both sides, but the one's with the power also hold the lion's share of the responisbility.
 
i hope everyone takes steps to heal our wounds. let's get back to having fun, being a family. there's plenty of stress in the real world, this is supposed to be something we enjoy. love and respect to all the members of vsc. if i have a personal issue with you then i have my reasons, but you're still part of the fam. let's get back to where we're supposed ot be.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% with this comment.  Especially about the moderating team.  While there was some back and forth that I think was constructive, there was also back and forth that was completely overboard.  I asked that it be cleaned up but never saw anything happen.  Not cool.

Saddens me that a build thread has to create such a stir.  Bought parts that I thought would fit nice, I bought wheels that I liked and thought that would move progress ahead, about to put them on a car that I like, posted some in progress pics.  Everything else was blown out of proportion.  

Gotta apologize to urmyhero4now because I think my post was taken all wrong, I will never brag about a money situation, but I forget this is the internet and I'm not talking to someone directly so things come off wrong.  I gotta say I was pissed at reading 75 posts bickering back and forth and he got something that may have come off as slick talk.

Let's keep it moving.

Pull up your skirt Oscar, yeah I said it. We all know who are at the top of the game on the scene anyway and in my opinion that's Platinum, RE, Revision, Auto Fashion and Liberty in no particular order just so I don't piss anyone off - thats basically everybody in the game - lol. The competitive nature should fuel us but not break us apart. An opinion is just an opinion at the end of the day. I don't particularly like the diamond stitches on the wheel but I commend Chris for doing it different and not going cookie cutter like a lot of stuff you see today and have seen and will continue to see.  I think the hate is involved when u actually feel as though u need to make thread dedicated to more hate.  Hate is anger.  I'm not here to combat hate with more hate. This is just my opinion.

@ exclusiveonez      class act right there.....never saw you trip and It was your thread

Keep doing you sir:biggthumpup:

damn, callin' people out personally hahaha. that's absurd.

i'm gonna stay out of this, but 'cakes and OG make good points. that's all. carry on and have a good day

[QUOTE=REV-01;385294]that is why i don't post anymore...east coast think i am a hater, i posted back then that they will waste alot of fenders to get it right.

i still love vip though i visit this site daily.[/QUOTE]

watch out samson - im on the east now - ha ha  - i have a difference of opinion - i dont think enough fenders are being waisted - i have a lot of love for hawaii but aside from the area fifty ls400, kyle's q45, your ls430 - nothing has been revolutionary and i know like you know - know one drives there car pass salt lake unless they trickle down to your shop - i bet there are are cars in hawaii that never touched kalakaua which is a crime in my opinion - and when you talk about driven cars -  OG hector - and Albert all with the LIBERTY stamp 

i think regardless of what you build if its not being driven - its a waste

samson we have had this discussion about fender work on the east while i was in hawaii and now that i'm here - any negligence is the customers fault - i can only speak for DK because thats where my work was done - they are very capable of doing what ever you can possibly dream of - you just have to tell them what you want - i told them to keep the body line and they did just that and the same with wills sc - so perception can sometimes get in the way of things but i think these discussions are healthy

This is focused towards everyone and anyone who took it further than it needed to be and who knows what they did:

I see hate and I see complaining.  I don't see criticism (there was some and I left it).  Jeebus is right..why are you mad?  This is the internet..Oscar said it himself, "it aint no "GAME".  So if it's not a game..then why are you complaining??  Let people do what they want and you do you.  Isn't that what people seem to always say anyhow?

And just to set the story straight, and clear the air...I MADE ALL OF THE DELETIONS AND EDITS IN THAT THREAD.  So if you want to get mad at anyone, get mad at ME.  Not anyone else, not any one person or club or crew or company.  I can take the heat.  I'm in this position on these forums because I can take the heat, I was asked to be here and to handle situations like this and deal with them.  So I will and do.  If you don't like it..go somewhere else and create havoc, I won't tolerate that crap here.

I figured I was dealing with adults who can handle some friendly competition.  You're kidding yourself if you don't think there's competition involved.  You want to be "JDM"...then get with the program..those guys COMPETE harder than anyone.  That's what keeps things growing and the bar raising.   That's how the style changes, it creates the ebb and flow of the entire style.  How can you NOT see this in this stage of things..even here in the US.

And you know what...people did make some good comments AND I LEFT THEM.  Because they were critiques, not bashes or fuel for flame, or simply off topic of one man's build.  That crap doesn't need to be in there.  If you want to create a new thread, then do so..just like this.  THIS, although not spoken professionally, was at least the right move.  Create a new thread and not crap up one guys build thread..[B]THAT is disrespectful and uncalled for[/B].  The people complaining are those who created the problem.  See what I'm saying here??  Notice how I didn't delete this thread?  I'm fair and just.  Say what you want, but I know how to do this.  Will I make everyone happy all the time?  No, I won't.  But I WILL keep this place from becoming a shit storm like many of the Honda forums.  We're above that crap..ALL OF US.  So think about etiquette when posting:

Am I posting this in the right thread?
Is what I'm posting off topic?
Should I just create a new thread?
Will this be disrespectful? 
How could what I'm posting be perceived?
Does this really need to be said?

I mean, I could go on forever here.  You guys are adults.  You know what is right.  So start acting like adults.  Playing around here and there is perfectly fine..when everyone KNOWS it's a joke.  Hating will not be tolerated..and that goes for everyone, whether you're a friend of mine or not.  I will drop the ban hammer, I've done it to my own friends..ask around.  So if you call me biased..you got another thing coming.

Any more posts in this thread should be kept CIVIL. :thelaw:

When ever you give an opinion, love or not love, you have to stay on topic of what you are talking about.  When you go into a paragraph long rant calling an entire group of people "dick ryders" and calling a car club a "brand", don't you think that would anger some people?

And also, when you go into a paragraph long rant that is off topic, that makes it personal and leads people to believe that it is hate.

When you go out of your way to prove a point to one member, and purposely try to shit on someone else who is not involved, thats personal as well.


There are lots of misconceptions on what we are about.  When we went to SoCal for the AF meet, it was all love and to meet those in the scene.  When I went to NorCal, it was all love and got to kick it with some of the hardcore modders.  When I went to Houston, it was all love and got to see some of the finest cars in person.  Every single time, I/we gave praise to their cars/scene.  We actually are out there for the love of the game and have been about running the crew with open doors to those with a chill attitude who love the scene.  We do shows all over the place as well as meets.  It is always a great stress free time.  Had it been any other way, we wouldn't be this big or last this long.

Agi u are right calling someone "this or that " will make a person or group feel a certain way...so what do u think calling someone a hater for having a opinion does, even though I had no opinion on the wheel and others did I still didn't think that was cool.

As far as the competition aspect goes, I welcome it, I have never been one to back down
some people just don't take this stuff as serious as others because at the end of the day its just cars.

Now I have always shown love to liberty and all the other crews out here and will continue to do so (even though I'm not in one)  but understand to get respect it also has to be given(not directed towardsa certain individual) 

And now I'm done with this....lets keep it moving guys

Look again, I never called anyone a hater and always respond maturely unless lots of unnecessary chatter in added.  Not once in that thread did I address anyone personally

Agi I know u didn't , but some of your team members did, I was just speaking in general

[QUOTE=33flavors;385343]watch out samson - im on the east now - ha ha  - i have a difference of opinion - i dont think enough fenders are being waisted - i have a lot of love for hawaii but aside from the area fifty ls400, kyle's q45, your ls430 - nothing has been revolutionary and i know like you know - know one drives there car pass salt lake unless they trickle down to your shop - i bet there are are cars in hawaii that never touched kalakaua which is a crime in my opinion - and when you talk about driven cars -  OG hector - and Albert all with the LIBERTY stamp 

i think regardless of what you build if its not being driven - its a waste

samson we have had this discussion about fender work on the east while i was in hawaii and now that i'm here - any negligence is the customers fault - i can only speak for DK because thats where my work was done - they are very capable of doing what ever you can possibly dream of - you just have to tell them what you want - i told them to keep the body line and they did just that and the same with wills sc - so perception can sometimes get in the way of things but i think these discussions are healthy[/QUOTE]

yeah that is why i said back then...it is heading the direction i like as i see more cars done.

A hater is someone that dislikes or feel a distaste for something, so if you don't like what they're doing and you state it, that makes you a hater.  =)  Don't be mad if someone calls you a hater though, everyone is a hater in one way or another.  For example, I am a hater towards Donk styling, so I guess you can call me a hater as well.  Everybody is a hater, just like everybody is a sinner, no need to get butthurt when someone calls you what you already are.

this thread died out faster than my build thread began.  You guys suck.  =)

[QUOTE=excluesiveonez;385420]this thread died out faster than my build thread began. You guys suck.[/QUOTE]
 
lol

Who cares what people say. Don't know about you, but I build a car for me, what I like, and what I want to drive around. Not for anyone else, what they like, or what they want to see. So if someone wants to call a build this or that, whatever. It don't matter. No sense getting sand in the vagina. Just enjoy the ride. It is what it is ....

For a moment i taught this thread was canadian ..:pat:

[QUOTE=kingpin;385425]For a moment i taught this thread was canadian ..:pat:[/QUOTE]

[img]http://c0016417.cdn2.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/2e3c.jpg[/img]

<3 you guys.

[QUOTE=elpresidente;385345]And you know what...people did make some good comments AND I LEFT THEM. Because they were critiques, not bashes or fuel for flame, or simply off topic of one man's build.[/QUOTE]
 
i'm calling bs. when chris asked me directly how i felt about his bumpers, or rather why i felt like i did, i took it as genuine interest in my opinion (maybe i was wrong). i took the time to provide a semi-detailed explanation of my view. not only was my post deleted, but even the part of chris' post where he asked me "what part do you have a problem with?" was deleted. if you look at the notes it says chris edited the post (bs).
 
when agi's wheels became a (off) topic i stated that i liked them. where did that go? when agi went on to describe how his wheels were unique i stated that they were not ("based off other designs"/"matching interior has been done before"). why is his marketing strategy more on topic than my assesment of said strategy?  fact is fact and i was simply providing truthful information relevant to what was allowed to stay. just for the record, i took it to agi privately to let him know that i had no ill intentions and there was no coup against him or liberty. we've corresponded for years now and have a healthy relationship (no homo) where we can be on opposing sides of an issue with becoming opposition. 
 
i know you have a problem with me whether or not you want to admit it (publicly or privately), and i have no problem saying that i have developed an issue with you. we used to be on the same page, or at least in the same book, but time has led us in different directions. that's perfectly fine with me, i can co-exist with someone i'm not fond of, but i refuse to be bullied/censored/opressed/etc. the figurative target on my back couldn't be any more obvious if it was tangible.
 
i understand that you feel threatened when i make an argument that has no rebuttle, particulary when it goes against your personal agenda, so the obvious next move is to flex a little e-muscle and show me who's boss. i can take it. i know that i am viewed as a troublemaker because i am always one of the first to speak my mind. guess what? i do it all with good intentions.  i have a genuine interest in the cars, scene, and members here. if my personal opinion or supplied information confirms, enlightens, makes anyone think/ second guess/become inquisitive then i am happy. if it falls on deaf ears then so be it. when we were saying the same thing it never seemed to be an issue. funny how that works...
 
 as far as "fuel for flame" that's not my concern. if someone else runs with what i am saying that just means they happen to agree with me. i can not be held responsible for how they choose to voice their opinion. we don't have any secret club that plots on members/vendors/crews/etc. (at least as far as i know). if anything, us that roll solo are more subject to being ganged up on, which is why that thread played out the way it did.
 
i find it disturbing, yet expected, that you come into this thread issuing orders when you can be held accountable for a good portion of what happened. take some responsibility. after all, that's why your name is red; not because you have thick skin.
 
since it's related, there is a world of difference between hating something and hating on someone. hate is simple dislike, hating is jealousy that manifests itself in bringing harm to someone else. dislike is a perfectly normal human response, hating is an unacceptable response to a normal human condition. calling someone a hater is kind of like calling someone a snitch. if you say it you better mean it. out of curiousity, how does your haterade image play into your checklist for forum ettiquette?
 
all this being said, i am still out for a eutopean society. we don't have to like each other to occupy the same space. sure things will boil over from time to time but with a basic level of respect things can be kept under control. however, i'd rather someone be vocal in disagreement than atempt to silence me.

[QUOTE=OG;385466]i'm calling bs. when chris asked me directly how i felt about his bumpers, or rather why i felt like i did, i took it as genuine interest in my opinion (maybe i was wrong). i took the time to provide a semi-detailed explanation of my view. not only was my post deleted, but even the part of chris' post where he asked me "what part do you have a problem with?" was deleted. if you look at the notes it says chris edited the post (bs).[/QUOTE]

Only part of the topic that relates to my build thread, but yeah, this was a real question i posed to your comment.  I'll take constructive criticism.  To be honest, after your post I called the shop to make sure I was going to have a rear bumper that had an exit angle.  unfortunately, the posts that were actually useful to me are gone too.  some were bad judgment calls.

[QUOTE=OG;385466]
 
since it's related, there is a world of difference between hating something and hating on someone. hate is simple dislike, hating is jealousy that manifests itself in bringing harm to someone else. dislike is a perfectly normal human response, hating is an unacceptable response to a normal human condition. calling someone a hater is kind of like calling someone a snitch. if you say it you better mean it. out of curiousity, how does your haterade image play into your checklist for forum ettiquette?
[/QUOTE]
 
^^^this!!..im jus sayin:shrug:.......but eff it im done with it,it is what it is

I must have missed something because I have read all 5 pages and all I saw was a debate over wheels which should not have gone as far as it did. Some members should have stayed out of it as the comments could have made things worse. The thread was not about his wheels specifically but about his build. I mean do we really need to point out things we disagree with on his thread. If he thinks his wheels are a step up, who cares. Live with it. Its HIS build not yours. Theres no reason to argue what you think  about his wheels in this thread unless the OP asked for your opinion. 


[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;385289]
I'm not tryna start no bullshit but at the same time this is some real talk that I know alot of us feel around here but prefer to hold their tongues about it all.
[/QUOTE]

People who hold their tongues are people who don't help the community. We cannot progress unless we all work together. If someone is scared to be hated on the public forum, feel free to contact me so we can make things better but VSC cannot make things right without knowing what is going on. We only see what is being done on the forum but even some things fly by us without us knowing. You guys all need to grow up and stop acting like kids.

OG, I don't even know what to say other than let it go.

Your view of me is not important to me.  The reason I edited some items was because of other responses that it led to which were off topic.  This meant that although you and the OP perceived it as planned, others apparently did not.  So rather than write a book, you could have just asked me.  Then maybe you'd have saved yourself some time.  This job isn't always the easiest and like I said before, I can't make everyone happy and not everyone will agree with what we do.  You're a vendor, keep that in mind when you respond to things as it can be taken totally different just because it could come off as bias.  We hold our vendors in higher regard and also expect them to act with a level of tact.

Your other rants don't warrant a response.  Its obvious what you're trying to do..and I could care less.  Deal with it...

I guess i have to say something now haha.

I guess not everyone is the same. If it were this way it would be boring. But I was brought up, if you dont have something nice to say, WHY THE FUCK YOU SAYING IT STILL! I think people who have to say something that is not constructive criticism and you know what it is. I dont understand the need to go out of the way to type it out or make an opinion, when in fact most of it is just that! 

Takes more energy to much negative energy to do it. Its almost like you hate your self and have to get it out on someone who is doing the damn thang. I notice the most out of everyone who hates on someone for something is cause they have one upped them on what it is they aren't doing them selves. Cause lets face it, its not your money, not your build.. so why you gotta be a Nazi and dictate it like it is your build you are paying for???

As for crews/clubs/ect It gets elitist real quick. Dont deny it! IT IS. You cant help but feel that awesome pride of rivalry when you go rollin somewhere, or to a meet with your crew. 

We have one here, but it isnt a club, its just a bunch of dorks who needed a name for our selves that was found on a word generator one drunkin party night after watching drift videos.

Its fine to have something you belong to. Its who we are as people, and car enthusiasts to share like minded things.. But when it gets to a point you are putting someone else down cause you are a member of that something when that other isnt, that is when it is uncalled for.

I am the only vip car guy in my area. and this area i live in is huge! But our lil gang of car peeps isnt about one thing or another, its about cars and life. Hate on me all you want, but i will stand alone in the vip scene. To me, that is what stands out most.

[QUOTE=elpresidente;385496]You're a vendor, keep that in mind when you respond to things as it can be taken totally different just because it could come off as bias. We hold our vendors in higher regard and also expect them to act with a level of tact.[/QUOTE]
 
when it was pneumatic (a product i offer) vs. hydraulic cups (a product that isn't even released and debated with a non-vendor) and turned into a conversation about suspension function i was shut down. don't you run hydraulics by the same company developing the product in question?
 
when it was hydropneumatic suspension being pushed as something brand new and i mentioned that citrogen developed hydropneumatic suspension during ww2 it was deleted. the same information has been re-introduced in a thread and has been left untouched. hydrohaulics (which i am a fan of btw) again?
 
with chris' thread only 1 other person even commented on the bumpers. why was that part gone? isn't dreamakers is the "official" body shop of liberty, the crew you are part of?
 
again, why was my comment about agi's wheels not being unique yet his equally off topic paragraph about how they are still there? if my response was deleted because it provoked others shouldn't his have been removed because it provoked me? why is his bias as a vendor not in question? i'm obviously not the only one who thinks your club affiliation has something to do with it.
 
i can keep going but these are a couple recent topics that involve me directly. none of these examples had anything to do with business (cup discussion could be considered borderline), they were simply statement of fact. all of them also happen to touch on subjects that you are close to. coincidence?
 
feel free to brush this off like you did my other questions, but your actions speak louder than your (lack of) words. i was fine with your "deal with it" mentality, but you felt it necessary to add that me being a vendor holds me to a higher standard. i never agreed to this. i didn't pay money to be censored.
 
i paid to be biased. my success depends on me finding, researching, and offering the best products available and presenting them as such. i take a lot of pride in what i do. i am not in a position of power and, unlike you, my bias does not dramatically impact anyone else's experience on the forum. do you realize that your actions could potentially discredit me to someone who doesn't have the knowledge to make an informed decision for themselves? is that how vsc treats it's vendors?
 
either way, my vendor status is not the issue and you know it. a man should be able to own up to his actions instead of being passive aggressive (see thread title). like mike said, if it's not out in the open it can't be addressed.

This seems like an issue between OG and elpresidente.  Take it to the PM box fellas.

Half of that was the same post you made earlier...let it go.

I already knew about Citroën.  I even mentioned my friends parents had an old school one back when even I was a kid.  That's like saying suspension is new technology.  Variations of a product are new..and introducing a product focused towards a style not previously used is new.  You went out of your way to bring up cup kits over and over.  You made a thread to not be biased, but as an opportunity to push your product and bash another one.  That isn't the way it's done.  You denied it as we expected you would.  Yo really think it's just me that sees all this?

I'm not going to entertain you any further as the other powers that be here have chosen to handle this since you've made it personal.  Good luck...but my suggestion, let it go.

[QUOTE=elpresidente;385583]Half of that was the same post you made earlier...let it go.[/QUOTE]
 
and i still have not received a satisfactory explanation.
 
[QUOTE=elpresidente;385583]I already knew about Citroën. I even mentioned my friends parents had an old school one back when even I was a kid. That's like saying suspension is new technology. Variations of a product are new..and introducing a product focused towards a style not previously used is new.[/QUOTE]
 
i remember the conversation. i half agree with the last part but i don't think that pointing out previous versions of a product warrants censorship. this applies directly to the thread in question also.
 
[QUOTE=elpresidente;385583]You went out of your way to bring up cup kits over and over. You made a thread to not be biased, but as an opportunity to push your product and bash another one. That isn't the way it's done. You denied it as we expected you would.[/QUOTE]
 
i denied it because it was not true. my intentions were legit, and regardless of your perception that will never change. i was hoping to create a discussion that would provide information to all members about multiple options with multiple points of view. i only expressed my personal preferance as an example after the thread failed to take off in the right direction.
 
the discussion took a turn towards a product i offer because of what another member/moderator said. from there i attempted to go into detailed relevant discussion but it was very one sided because i was not met with any substantial debate. not my fault. 
 
your intentions when you hit me on aim, however, where to talk me into submission. not happening; i don't fold and don't have to because my foundation is solid. you continued to try and manipulate the conversation and talk (type) over me to accomplish your goal. it was very disrespectful and i'm not having it. 
 
[QUOTE=elpresidente;385583]Yo really think it's just me that sees all this?[/QUOTE]
 
obviously, i could ask you the same. the only difference is i don't sit around and talk behind anyone's back. i operate solo and in the open.
 
[QUOTE=elpresidente;385583]I'm not going to entertain you any further as the other powers that be here have chosen to handle this since you've made it personal. Good luck...but my suggestion, let it go.[/QUOTE]
 
i have not made anything, however i have taken it personal. i, and others, am on the receiving end of this deal.
 
i welcome a change of leadership and look forward to discussing the issue with someone else.
 
i will let it go as soon as the finger stops being pointed at victims.

[QUOTE=mdenoga;385481]The thread was not about his wheels specifically but about his build. I mean do we really need to point out things we disagree with on his thread. 

[/QUOTE]

I don't understand, aren't wheels part of a build? I read all the thread before some posts got deleted/edited. I didn't see any hate. I think just comments of dislike is maybe hitting harder than what it was really meant to be, since it's their team? I think personally you guys took it to heart too hard, and shouldn't  expect everyone to like your build. A person saying they don't like the  build isn't a hater, LOL. 

I saw Mike(OG) talking about the wheels, well because Agi brought it up, and he was just replying to it. There was no simply, ahh this shit sucks, it was all constructive criticism, and why some people didn't like a certain feature of the build. You SHOULD expect some dislikes if you go with a wheel like that, as you can't please everyone. That's a wheel you hate or love it.

BTW, a scene grows from criticism, not from people who has no opinions and love everything you do. If people love everything, it would never change and evolve.

last I checked, this wasn't club lexus...where you can't voice an opinion...

Please don't turn this forum into a censorship based on loyalty to a club...seems like a lot of club members, including mods that were members of the club jumped in because of some dislike of wheels.  I personally liked the wheels...but the gang bang wasn't cool.

ahhh..some of the name calling was what got the guys going...I forgot all about that because of the deletion...that would probably get my blood boiling too if I were a member of a club that was getting called out like that...

I do not think censorship is something this forum should stand for.  Elpresidente, if you were the one who permanently deleted those posts, prohibiting the rest of the staff from viewing them, you should be held solely accountable for this as you denied the rest of us the chance to review the data and come to our own conclusions.  Im sorry but your word alone is not enough evidence for me to go on.


I think we can all agree the previous thread just got alittle out of hand and some pride clouded the judgement of some otherwise very level-headed, valued members of our community.  Text is the double edged sword that can easily be skewed to the current mentality of the viewer, not of its original intentions per se.

Can't we all just get along? We're all doing this for the fun of modding cars, it's really nothing more than that.

[QUOTE=khanhdom;385599]
BTW, a scene grows from criticism, not from people who has no opinions  and love everything you do. If people love everything, it would never  change and evolve.[/QUOTE]

You're exactly right but theres a  point between criticism and calling someone out. Yeah you can give your  opinion but some comments I saw weren't constructive at all. 

[QUOTE=speedaddict;385603]ahhh..some of the name calling was what got  the guys going...I forgot all about that because of the deletion...that  would probably get my blood boiling too if I were a member of a club  that was getting called out like that...[/QUOTE]

As for the deletion, I wasn't able to see what was permanently  deleted. But in this case, I would have liked to see what was  permanently deleted. But we all aren't perfect, sometimes in the spur of  the moment the wrong button is pushed and we cannot go back. I would  like to know what was deleted if someone could message me a breakdown. 

Mike (OG) - whatever issue you have with Mike (elpresidente), you two need to leave it off the forum.

If there were any threads permanently deleted, then I have no way to revert the deletion and see what is said. Therefore, it should not have been deleted permanently.

this is still going on?? 

don't people have work to do? or is the 10percent unemployment really 11 percent cause the other 1 percent is here. 

Do something constructive, rather than destructive. Its sunny in washington right now, so it means its sunny everywhere else.. so go wash a car instead of wasting your time that you dont get back by arguing on here.

Car washing commenced!

+1 for kouki

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;385663]this is still going on?? 

[/QUOTE]

Agreed. :smiley-rofl: