whats up with the Orange Peal?

Why am I seeing so many flawed paint jobs on VIP cars in Japan? A lot of cars in the mags have some super wavy stuff going on too. and some are feature cars too. Waves in the fiberglass work, waves in doors, and to top it off orange peal. My once daily drifted car I painted had no waves and hardly any orange peal when I painted it, and removed it all with wet sand and buff. 

[IMG]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6693658701_6428b21417_o.jpg[/IMG]

I mean, seriously??

damn!!! 285/30R19 and it's stretched... these wheel specs must be massive  but yeah abit disappointing to see the paint like this.

from the picture posted its really hard to be certain to me it seems like aberation created by the camera usedto take the picture.Forgive me if im mistaken.But you are right on that.Not all the is from japan is true to the hype.Just like any car scene there will always be the good,the bad and the just okay

[QUOTE=Blitz;432386]damn!!! 285/30R19 and it's stretched... these wheel specs must be massiv.[/QUOTE]
 
19X10.5 -5
19X12 -25

nothing a good buff cant take care of.....:shrug:

if you look closer to the door jam the gap between the door and the arch is not the same, the gap around the middle lower portion is wider then the area's around it....as well as it seems to have a silver streak in between the two area's were it kinda fades from the blue to the silver, like a jacked up tape line.


[IMG]http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu335/jeffreydoxseephotos/6693658701_6428b21417_o.jpg[/IMG]

this is the line I'm referring to

[QUOTE=Mr.Doback;432422]nothing a good buff cant take care of.....:shrug:[/QUOTE]

But it shouldn't leave the shop looking like that :pat:

maybe it's the look they're going for LOL. you know, perfection within imperfection. tired super clean work and paint, gotta change it up and be different.

I dont think its orange peal. i think the camera is out of focus on the paint. even the rest of the wheel looks fuzzy.

From what I understand, in Japan, overall fit and finish isn't exactly a huge thing over there. As long as everything looks okay and works okay, then it's perfectly fine. Here in the US, we nit pick the finest details, even the paint that cannot be seen (inside fenders, under the trunk carpet, etc.).

the picture has a shallow depth of field so the blur kinda looks like orange peal

[QUOTE=Nairiku Shiryo;432444]From what I understand, in Japan, overall fit and finish isn't exactly a huge thing over there. As long as everything looks okay and works okay, then it's perfectly fine. Here in the US, we nit pick the finest details, even the paint that cannot be seen (inside fenders, under the trunk carpet, etc.).[/QUOTE]

This is pretty common. You can say what you want about the paint jobs but the cars still shit on most of what is out in the states. :pat:

Pic and choose your poison. I'll take what is in most of these mags over half done car with a good paint job. Plus also consider how often the japan guys change up the look of their cars even though VIP is suggested "pay to play" mentality, it still would be quite a waste.

Been noticing this for years, as well as some sketchy body work pics on minkara. I'm sure a majority of the high profile cars don't look anywhere near as good in person.

yeah, its just something that irritates me cause it is something I have done for the past decade.

i just find it funny that we bow down so easy to them based off such a small amount of exposure. i still give them props for being the originators, but they're not superior in my eyes. i've seen a LOT of cars that look good in pics but s**tty in person, and all we see from them is pics.

I am not saying all of Japanese cars are the standard to which VIP should be held, it's just funny how we have come a to a point now where we nit pick at the cars. If they got magazine coverage for their build and it isn't 100% to your liking then build something that you can be proud of and get your own coverage.

I know many of the mags I have have cover cars with orange peel but it is still a good looking car.

Yeah, that's how I used to feel about it when I liked what they were doing. Now, I'm like it's ugly and not well put together. Meh. Grumpy old man or somethin'...

Overall it may be a great car. But I do not know how they let it out the shop like that, or no one sees it or no one cares? Cars come factory with orange peal all day. I do not like it cause I love having things as a mirror finish. Having wavy fiberglass and sometimes dry spots in clear is the inability to do something correctly. 

Its right up there with a lot of the factory nissan's that are coming out now days. Lexus cars have always had great paint. sure it will have some orange peal to it but not that of its other rivals.  And when something is custom done, and not meeting a factory deadline of sales. More care should be taken care of.

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;432467]Overall it may be a great car. But I do not know how they let it out the shop like that, or no one sees it or no one cares? Cars come factory with orange peal all day. I do not like it cause I love having things as a mirror finish. Having wavy fiberglass and sometimes dry spots in clear is the inability to do something correctly. 

Its right up there with a lot of the factory nissan's that are coming out now days. Lexus cars have always had great paint. sure it will have some orange peal to it but not that of its other rivals.  And when something is custom done, and not meeting a factory deadline of sales. More care should be taken care of.[/QUOTE]

I understand you 100% on this but not everyone thinks the same or has the same standards. I think this has been brought up previous in other conversations. It boiled down to if that's what works for them then great. If US can put out better vehicles and have great paint even better for us. Just an area for the US to do better in.

[QUOTE=JDOX;432424]if you look closer to the door jam the gap between the door and the arch is not the same, the gap around the middle lower portion is wider then the area's around it....as well as it seems to have a silver streak in between the two area's were it kinda fades from the blue to the silver, like a jacked up tape line.


[IMG]http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu335/jeffreydoxseephotos/6693658701_6428b21417_o.jpg[/IMG]

this is the line I'm referring to[/QUOTE]

This looks like light reflection to me.

where he is pointing at with the arrow is what i think a black stripe maybe added to add depth to the body line other wise it would be shining blue, unlike the front to rear door body line would be darker cause there is no paint in that area. Just my guess til they open the door

[QUOTE=Damicci;432470]This looks like light reflection to me.[/QUOTE]

If you look at the original pic its less fuzzy and you can see the area were it looks like the paint fades out, its not a reflection or it would be larger not isolated to that one small area...

[QUOTE=OG;432460]i just find it funny that we bow down so easy to them based off such a small amount of exposure. i still give them props for being the originators, but they're not superior in my eyes. i've seen a LOT of cars that look good in pics but s**tty in person, and all we see from them is pics.[/QUOTE]

Is funny I find the cars like Gato's, speed addicts etc way more appealing not only because of the details but they are way cleaner and the over all finished product is way better then 99% of the cars I see from Japan. Alot of them in my opinion are way over the top hideous and the over all execution is less then appealing..

But maybe thats me and my lack of VIP wisdom...for me Ill take a clean car like Gato's way before I take this blue car...


[QUOTE=OG;432456]Been noticing this for years, as well as some sketchy body work pics on minkara. I'm sure a majority of the high profile cars don't look anywhere near as good in person.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking this same thing...I find myself more and more seeing the huge difference in that VIP in the states is more about attention to detail and execution and less about absurd details like 30 vents 20 exhaust tips and body kits that deviate way to the left on flowing with the car just to be over the top....

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;432473]where he is pointing at with the arrow is what i think a black stripe maybe added to add depth to the body line other wise it would be shining blue, unlike the front to rear door body line would be darker cause there is no paint in that area. Just my guess til they open the door[/QUOTE]

if you look at the original pic that started the thread and enlarge it you will better see what I mean about it looking like silver paint that was never painted...

oh yeah! you are right. It looks like the silver was the base for the candy laid on top. It could in fact be a rushed job to get done for the show?

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;432477]oh yeah! you are right. It looks like the silver was the base for the candy laid on top. It could in fact be a rushed job to get done for the show?[/QUOTE]

That's what I was thinking, if you look yo can see were there the blue fades into the silver, judging by the smooth lines of it, it looks like a tape line...

definitely cars look alot better in pictures from a distance than up close.    Japanese are known to accessories the shit out of their cars so no suprise to me they do extreme stuff.   What I don't get is they aren't as restricted to EPA laws so they can can use all kinds of awesome paint yet do jobs like this.   body work is good though but needs some work to make it more clean.   Anyways this kinda stuff is abit too extreme for me anyways.   If I was to imagine how much it would have costed to do a job like this in the states I would think over 10K with paint and months of work.   

I've heard that they are really nit picky about being able to drive low AND not rub while turning.  but I just heard that so not sure.   I don't get why that is so sought after but whatever.

I am the same way about the turning. I like the front to be as low as the rear. And a lot of vip cars have stuff tucking in the rear where the front is higher up and looks out of place. To master the "if you go any lower it wont turn" method i think would be most sought after for a lot of people.

That means that the fender has to be angled with the way the stretch is on the tire when it tuns. Which, is why a lot of them aren't super flush in front with the tire causing a 'poke' if you will. The rim will be flush with the fender but there will be a slight enough gap for the wheel to turn. Which I think is difficult to do with any adjustment suspension other than static. It means you clear or hit, there is no in between. And rubbing on fender is pretty drifter in my opinion.

oh yeah, that is why they add a lot of camber in front, to aid in that. since the wheel is sooo cambered, when it turns the tire clears the fender very easily as show well in this video. If i was brave enough, I would do it like this all day everyday and run on cups to get over crowns, road dots, and pebbles. 

[youtube]fHMokBUeppI[/youtube]

Not sure how this got on topic of ride height.. but its my thread so fuck it

I had an R/C car that can turn like that once...

haha i can turn without rubbing on my car, but i bottom out and hit my mounts some times...anyway, id take that blue car over any US car and just finish it up :P

GOT DAYUUM!!!! Y'all mofos nit pick and complain waaaay too damn much :P
:pat:

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;432633]GOT DAYUUM!!!! Y'all mofos nit pick and complain waaaay too damn much :P
:pat:[/QUOTE]

thats what im saying! its not even a big deal if its orange peel...nothing a great detail cant take care of...but in all honesty it might have just been a "get it ready" for the show...we've all done it

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;432633]GOT DAYUUM!!!! Y'all mofos nit pick and complain waaaay too damn much :P
:pat:[/QUOTE]

X2 ! that bee dragon build is my fave y33 cima anywhere ! I love how it looked with the hybreed fivestas before with blue face and yellow inner barrels

still looks good !

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;432477]oh yeah! you are right. It looks like the silver was the base for the candy laid on top. It could in fact be a rushed job to get done for the show?[/QUOTE]
 
Could be someone got carried away with the buffer and buffed the edges....never buff the edges....

Still nice

you can never keep a car in perfect condition imo...that paint job is pretty sad...the silver you guys see looks like the backtape line on the 1/4 jamb...i'm pretty sure all the jambs are still silver...i know they go through quite a few paint jobs but that shit is pretty whack...

the only perfect paint job you do is for yourself and I've never had one that i was completely happy with...

at least make a better attempt to complete a dope car...why go through all that work if you're gonna half ass the paint job...i've seen paint jobs come out of back yards that are cleaner than that.

everything looks decent in pics...i wouldn't mind being a traveling painter...

^ just dont paint grants car :smiley-rofl:

grant is a bitch...lol

Yeah it something you expect here. Where in japan they hav more habit of paying for good work. Which is why this kind of thing baffles me

But am I mistaken that most of the Japanese show stoppers are mostly done within the crews?

honestly after putting my nose up to the screen it looks like the jams are satin black..   You can clearly see the line that follows the door.   I bet it helps hide the inconsistent spacing between door and jam.

Must be the new "in" thing for Japan. US will be soon to follow :P

of course...

you know, this thread got me thinkin...i think when i got my car resprayed a custom color, he did too nice of a job.  imma key my car so that i can cash out from insurance and respray it with some orange peel.

[QUOTE=BAHC;433140]you know, this thread got me thinkin...i think when i got my car resprayed a custom color, he did too nice of a job.  imma key my car so that i can cash out from insurance and respray it with some orange peel.[/QUOTE]

Ass :slap: Hahaha.

I'm with Cakes on this one. Let it be.

They have Macco in Japan?

[QUOTE=Damicci;433142]Ass :slap: Hahaha.

I'm with Cakes on this one. Let it be.[/QUOTE]

why? whats so hard about picking up a wet sander and a buffer??:pat:

[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/5wjhnn.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/2ch4y8o.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/2gsg7ex.jpg[/IMG]
 
looks as if there is still some ability in japan.  my brother is in the marines and currently stationed in okinawa and has an okinawan girlfriend.  He brought her to the states and of course the first thing i asked her was about the vip scene over there (and if i can get parts haha)  while okinawans kinda isolate themselves from japan (kinda like hawaii and the US, they are okinawan, not japanese) she said that VIP over there now is super over saturated and is the "little kid" scene...this would probably explain a lot of the paint jobs over there..she said VIP, on her island anyway, is a joke of a scene, kinda like our ricer scene here.  of course, i dont know how true this all is

a sign of things to come.......

2002 q45 black on black lowered needs some work 120k miles 11k firm lol

Cause most of Japan is 20 pounds of bondo and fiberglass on the fenders/quarters.  Looks good from far but up close looks like ass.  Wet sanding wont do much for the gloss.  When there is that much filler, it will never be as reflective as a surface that is mainly metal.

[QUOTE]he said that VIP over there now is super over saturated and is the "little kid" scene...[/QUOTE]

how old is she?  Also is she into the scene or this is just saying what others have said.   I don't see how little kids can afford the price of building one.

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;433337]a sign of things to come.......[/QUOTE]

Real Talk..

[QUOTE=Blitz;433472]how old is she?  Also is she into the scene or this is just saying what others have said.   I don't see how little kids can afford the price of building one.[/QUOTE]

Dominik who lives there has been saying the same thing for a while.  Its mainly people in the early 20's who are into the scene.

[QUOTE=widebody_Q;433476]Dominik who lives there has been saying the same thing for a while.  Its mainly people in the early 20's who are into the scene.[/QUOTE]

This is interesting...  I'm curious about the USDM/EVO/R35/Z33 etc age brackets...

From how he and Jermaine explained it, seems like a "hood rich" mentality.  Both husband and wife work hard at their normal jobs and save for their hobbies (cars, clothes, etc).  They have tiny apartments with sick cars parked out in front.

But keep in mind, their economy has been kept up-float for the past 2 decades with nearly zero loan rates... this has made an huge impact in the ability of young adults to over spend, especially in the modding community :shrug:

.... well if my memory recalls right. Don't quote me on that one =)

[QUOTE=widebody_Q;433469]Cause most of Japan is 20 pounds of bondo and fiberglass on the fenders/quarters. Looks good from far but up close looks like ass. Wet sanding wont do much for the gloss. When there is that much filler, it will never be as reflective as a surface that is mainly metal.[/QUOTE]
 
Where do you come up with this s**t? It takes work to create a proper canvas but once that's done the paint doesn't care what it sticks too. Orange peel is clear coat that isn't level, cutting and buffing most definitely will improve the gloss. That's like saying "my kit isn't shiny because it's fiberglass"; or even better, my Corvette. No, that just means you didn't do it right.

[QUOTE=OG;432460]i just find it funny that we bow down so easy to them based off such a small amount of exposure. i still give them props for being the originators, but they're not superior in my eyes. i've seen a LOT of cars that look good in pics but s**tty in person, and all we see from them is pics.[/QUOTE]

never bite the hangs that feeds you - I hear a lot of slander going on in this thread

Without Japan we would not even be having this discussion.  VIPSTYLECARS.com would not exist, OG and  the reputation that comes with being affiliated with this forum would not exist.  I agree we should not bow down but we should be very selective in our thoughts and ideas and always pay hommage and maintain a certain level of respect

dudes have a couple of clean builds under there belt and now talking about japan is not superior, we in the U.S. are cookie cutter VIP - lacking anything innovative - we carry over styles from what we see in magazines and we pick what we like, we pick what we dont like and we apply it and throw out the rest, all borrowed - so we will never be superior until we put down the magazines and stop making the comparisons

i put down the magazines years ago homie.
 
like i said; i pay homage to the japanese and have unconditional respect for what they have created as far as a style, regardless of how i feel about current trends. what i'm talking about is the process used to achieve the style. the seperation needs to be crystal. status as a builder is based on knowledge, experience, and skill; not location.
 
before anyone further implies it; i'm not claiming superiority, although it is my ultimate goal.
 
one more thing, this has been happening for 2 decades +. the builds you see are just japanese copying/one upping other japanese, no different than an american doing the same thing.  how many of these cats do you think have been in it since the beginning?

[QUOTE=widebody_Q;433469]Cause most of Japan is 20 pounds of bondo and fiberglass on the fenders/quarters. Looks good from far but up close looks like ass. Wet sanding wont do much for the gloss. When there is that much filler, it will never be as reflective as a surface that is mainly metal.[/QUOTE]
 
LOL...not sure if serious.  Been in the hot rod scene for years and there's plenty of "gloss" fiberglass rods.

Orange peel can also be caused by applying the basecoat too dry.   Either wrong reducer or poor overlap or plain ol shitty gun...

Gloss Will appear the same over primered bondo or metal

[QUOTE=33flavors;433521]never bite the hangs that feeds you .........
 
......Without Japan we would not even be having this discussion. VIPSTYLECARS.com would not exist, ................reputation that comes with being affiliated with this forum would not exist. I agree we should not bow down but we should be very selective in our thoughts and ideas and always pay hommage and maintain a certain level of respect
 
dudes have a couple of clean builds under there belt and now talking about japan is not superior, we in the U.S. are cookie cutter VIP - lacking anything innovative - we carry over styles from what we see in magazines and we pick what we like, we pick what we dont like and we apply it and throw out the rest, all borrowed - so we will never be superior until we put down the magazines and stop making the comparisons[/QUOTE]
 
THIS.

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;433539]THIS.[/QUOTE] "T" to the :werd2:

the irony is most cats don't cosign anything until it's been done over and over in japan. i remember talking about fender vents, carbon fiber, etc. a few years ago and 90% said "no, it's too sporty. this is luxury. blah, blah, blah." look at the game now. if you put someone else in front of you you'll always be behind.
 
"cookie cutter" don't mean s**t to me today. i want my car to look like every other stock president for the most part. maybe one big body mod (functional) and a couple small details (taking away the ugly, not adding anything). i appreciate the original beauty too much to ruin it chasing trends. once you commit to being at the top of the vip game it's a constant thing, and you better hope that nothing changes so drastically that what you have done already isn't slavagable. then what? you have an outdated car that you can't do s**t with. i'll just play solitare.

I gives no fucks!
 
I have a fantasy picture of how I want my car to end up looking like and it might be cookie cutter and all that but I really gives fucks non about it. 
End of the day, I aint tryna be on top of knotta. I jus want a car that is nice and different from all the hondas/ricers/drift cars around me in my city and different from all the other silver Qs around me lol
 
 
[QUOTE=OG;433543]the irony is most cats don't cosign anything until it's been done over and over in japan. i remember talking about fender vents, carbon fiber, etc. a few years ago and 90% said "no, it's too sporty. this is luxury. blah, blah, blah." look at the game now. if you put someone else in front of you you'll always be behind.
 [/QUOTE]
 
 
I do cosign this though

The guys in Japan are one upping eachother with ugly kit modifications...then they all just look like "ugly kits" with too much camber.  I see why they are considered the ricers...I don't consider the new style VIP to be innovative at all.  I consider it back to the 90's riceboy style.
 
US VIP is just about accessories, lowered with mad camber...we can't even get our fender work to look good over here... *sigh* and we're complaining about orange peel? Colorsand and buff...then what will we complain about?

really i'm done with this conversation. no hard feelings, got work to do.

me too...I'm going back to fixing my helicopter and tank.

I agree with Oscar...besides, everyones budget, timeline, Shop spacd, etc. is different....that car is still dope either way u look at it

[QUOTE=Blitz;433472]how old is she? Also is she into the scene or this is just saying what others have said. I don't see how little kids can afford the price of building one.[/QUOTE]
 
 
Agi kinda touched on this, but shes early-mid 20's and not a part of the scene, only giving her opinions on the vip cars and their drivers that she sees everyday

[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;433548] 
I jus want a car that is nice and.....
different from all the other silver Qs around me lol
 [/QUOTE]
 
 
so funny cause its true, cant wait to paint my car another color.

Ha ha. I guess I touched a few nerves.

[QUOTE=BAHC;433566]shes early-mid 20's and not a part of the scene, only giving her opinions on the vip cars and their drivers that she sees everyday[/QUOTE]
 
yet, still sounds pretty accurate

[QUOTE=33flavors;433578]Ha ha. I guess I touched a few nerves.[/QUOTE]
 
which is the only reason you posted anyway, right?
 
perspective is a funny thing. you see one nation following another, i see 2 nations of followers. it's not like every car in japan was built in the same shop. these guys are following each other, just like the u.s. is following. s**t, half the cats over here are following cats over here.
 
but none of this has anything to do with quality, which was the original topic of discussion.

This brings me back to this thread/ great read
[URL]http://www.vipstylecars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25575[/URL]
 
 
[URL]http://www.austinkleon.com/2011/03/30/how-to-steal-like-an-artist-and-9-other-things-nobody-told-me/[/URL]

[QUOTE=OG;433616]s**t, half the cats over here are following cats over here.[/QUOTE]

super wide leons anyone? that shit is 100% geared towards the western market.

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;433202]why? whats so hard about picking up a wet sander and a buffer??:pat:[/QUOTE]

My statement was just let them do what they want how they want to.
No sense trying to figure out why they did something that is not to "YOUR" liking.

There is alot of shit i see in pics from JP cars that make think wtf was he thinking but not worth making noise over it.

I just let it be. :shrug: Just my opinion.

I sure know how to bring out the best in VSC.

It is what it is. I see it, it bothers me. Others may be blind to it which is fine. If you are happy with it, then great. But for it to be at the show it is at, its like taking a car to sema.

Are they running out of material to make a mag? maybe so. But where I have come from in the industry, that is the first thing I see. And it baffles me that people who are in the industry there, getting paid to do this work, cant do what I see that is wrong. And you then have to put the shop in question. Not saying all shops here are any better, but if you go to a show like that, or going to be featured.. its not how much dad or mum produce products and vending machines, fog lights, more vents than a reactor core, big wheels and green tint, it all comes down as to how it is show cased. And for me, maybe its cause I hold it higher than anything since it is something I do, i put paint before everything.

There is a lot of people even on this and other forums where I see it too, do i mention it? sometimes if I see fit. But I dont like to hurt peoples feelings.

It's a fair discussion. You have your opinions and so does everyone else. all good *cabbage*

still disappointing to see the car up close like this.   Even though it looks dope from afar in my head I know it's not so great up close.   Now I question how well some of these builds really are.   *carrot*

[QUOTE=speedaddict;433528]LOL...not sure if serious.  Been in the hot rod scene for years and there's plenty of "gloss" fiberglass rods.[/QUOTE]  

I was referring to the gloss, not the orange peel.

Having bad body work done in the past numerous times, I seen it first hand.  While the surface with the heavy bondo was clean and smooth, it was not nearly as deep as the surfaces that were metal.  Jermaine knows exactly what I am talking about when he had his original body work redone to mostly metal at DK.

Most of these guys have a really hardcore attitude.  Break the bumper, time for a new custom kit and color change.  Their work is not made to last.  They go for fast quick results with the mindset that the fender work, kit, color, etc is all changeable.  They keep the scene alive and give us new motivation by never settling.  

When the scene gets so popular where you have to wait 6 months to get in line at one of the top shops, people will go to less known shops and settle for a "quick fix" during the show season and have the same things happen

Good way of looking at it

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;433633]
There is a lot of people even on this and other forums where I see it too, do i mention it? sometimes if I see fit. But I dont like to hurt peoples feelings.[/QUOTE]

liar  :smiley-rofl:

yours was horridly off, black fenders.. man what were you thinking! hahaha. even though I actually liked it like that

[QUOTE=Damicci;433629]My statement was just let them do what they want how they want to.
No sense trying to figure out why they did something that is not to "YOUR" liking.

There is alot of shit i see in pics from JP cars that make think wtf was he thinking but not worth making noise over it.

I just let it be. :shrug: Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

its not an issue of preferance or style, its quality

Another things to note here, from the examples I've seen most Japanese builds don't take YEARS to complete. They are finished in a few months or less. While we are bitching about orange peel and taking 5 years to build our car, they have built and changed and driven and enjoyed their car for the past 4 years. Quality can take a back seat sometimes to being able to enjoy the car. You can never build a perfect car that gets driven there is no point. So you might as well get it finished and enjoy it even if there is a little OMG orange peel... lol

Did anyone spot this bad-ass Celsior in the background at 40sec ?

 [url]http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Dino%20Dalle%20Carbonare/2011/SEPT2011/DB-Celsior/AY0F6502.jpg[/url]

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;433683]yours was horridly off, black fenders.. man what were you thinking! hahaha. even though I actually liked it like that[/QUOTE]

:smiley-rofl: I'm still a ricer at heart.  

I actually never rolled around like that.  Only reason I went to 512 Project was because Ben asked me to bring it there.  Car sat in my garage for almost a year like that. while I was redoing the supercharger setup

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;433709]Another things to note here, from the examples I've seen most Japanese builds don't take YEARS to complete. They are finished in a few months or less. While we are bitching about orange peel and taking 5 years to build our car, they have built and changed and driven and enjoyed their car for the past 4 years. Quality can take a back seat sometimes to being able to enjoy the car. You can never build a perfect car that gets driven there is no point. So you might as well get it finished and enjoy it even if there is a little OMG orange peel... lol[/QUOTE]
 
this is the closest thing to a valid point, but i can't operate this way. for my car, and the cars i work on a much lesser extent, i don't care how long it takes; it has to be right. from a business perspective it would probably be beneificial for me to produce something quickly to show off, but it's a custom car and my thing is if you modify it you should be making it better than how it came. repainting a car with a lower quality paintjob is not an upgrade; just like over aggressive/improperly fitted wheels are not an upgrade, cheap fender work is not an upgrade, non functional suspension is not an upgrade, anything that fit and finish are not 95%+ is not an upgrade. why change it only to make it worse? just so it stands out as a reflection of you? think about what you're saying.

[QUOTE=widebody_Q;433653]I was referring to the gloss, not the orange peel.
 
Having bad body work done in the past numerous times, I seen it first hand. While the surface with the heavy bondo was clean and smooth, it was not nearly as deep as the surfaces that were metal. Jermaine knows exactly what I am talking about when he had his original body work redone to mostly metal at DK.[/QUOTE]
 
sounds like the bodywork wasn't sealed. i know what you're talking about but that's not proper paintwork.

[QUOTE=OG;433798]this is the closest thing to a valid point, but i can't operate this way. for my car, and the cars i work on a much lesser extent, i don't care how long it takes; it has to be right. from a business perspective it would probably be beneificial for me to produce something quickly to show off, but it's a custom car and my thing is if you modify it you should be making it better than how it came. repainting a car with a lower quality paintjob is not an upgrade; just like over aggressive/improperly fitted wheels are not an upgrade, cheap fender work is not an upgrade, non functional suspension is not an upgrade, anything that fit and finish are not 95%+ is not an upgrade. why change it only to make it worse? just so it stands out as a reflection of you? think about what you're saying.[/QUOTE]


To each their own, doing things right is important no doubt. However, Functionality is somewhat subjective. Either way I see both sides here and I think both mindsets have their place. The thing about VIP car is these aren't collectors cars worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, they are just a fun hobby and no one feels bad butchering up a fender to fit crazy wheels (unlike say classic mustang gt500 guys would), or dragging the chassis on the ground because of how low you are. 

I enjoy driving my car more so than building it. Although the build process is fun, it's not what I enjoy most. I have friends who enjoy building their cars more than driving them. So I value driving my car more than a perfect $10,000 paint job (which will inevitably look like a $3-5k job once you drive it regularly). I just assume have a body shop that is intelligent and does acceptable quick work paint my car for $3000 and be able to drive it sooner than spend $10k on it and have to wait to save the money, and then it take forever to get done because the $10k paint place are perfectionist. 

Like I said, this is just from my perspective, lots of people just like the build process of cars and I can see where everything has to be just so. It understandable and I totally respect and agree with your point of view of doing things correct the first time.

Even if it was driven regularly, and my cars that I have painted as completes were mirror finish. Its all on how you keep up with it. Cause I would not like to skate around on a paint job that looks worse than macco. Sure, my 14 was just a drift car, but it had nicer paint than those I come across. Ruin a bumper or fender? repaint it the same way. Maybe that is too baller, but I take pride in what I own. 

But justifying having a sub par paint job on lots of hard work on a car, or even half ass work just so one can go out and drive it is close to faking the funk just to be in the scene. And I put it there with the people who would rather build up a high hp civic than go with out so they can buy a Lamborghini, but justify the lie to them selves of, oh they are shit, no reason for them when my civic is faster

gonna rest case, no wet sand, just buffed once a year.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/DrifterXL01/SA400191111.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/DrifterXL01/SA4002031.jpg[/IMG]
you will see a slight deviation on the side skirt, it was molded in 03 and after many of bottoming out, thats how you get the hair line cracks, but none of it was contributed to sub par body work.

even from a distance it looks great lol
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/DrifterXL01/67468967674.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;433869]Even if it was driven regularly, and my cars that I have painted as completes were mirror finish. Its all on how you keep up with it. Cause I would not like to skate around on a paint job that looks worse than macco. Sure, my 14 was just a drift car, but it had nicer paint than those I come across. Ruin a bumper or fender? repaint it the same way. Maybe that is too baller, but I take pride in what I own. 

But justifying having a sub par paint job on lots of hard work on a car, or even half ass work just so one can go out and drive it is close to faking the funk just to be in the scene. And I put it there with the people who would rather build up a high hp civic than go with out so they can buy a Lamborghini, but justify the lie to them selves of, oh they are shit, no reason for them when my civic is faster[/QUOTE]

Wow you're completely missing the point. 

Maybe you misread what I said, but there is no way in hell the paint job on your S14 was $10,000 

In fact I doubt a handful or less on this site have a PAINT JOB in the $10k range. So really, what's the big deal? You want a perfect paint job save your pennies and pay for it. To me I'll take a close to perfect paint job and drive my car on the regular. In the long run that makes me happier. Some people just like to look at their car sitting in a garage, that's not for me. No faking the funk here, my car will be done and I'll be enjoying it, bitch all you want about minor imperfections.  

And I had a pretty decent paint job on my S14 too lol, flares were metal, skim coat of filler to smooth the imperfections..daily driven because I enjoy driving my cars. Paint job cost $1500 and I did the majority of the body work myself. I'd be happy with the paint quality on my G50:

[IMG]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/jzz30tt/Chris%20Car%20History/HistoryS144.jpg[/IMG]

[img]http://www.mazdas247.com/members/Chris@Spool/s14%20paint2%20(Small).JPG[/img]

I spent 200 dollars only cause of booth pay. I worked at a shop when I did it. I painted it my self and did all the work. Sine product price was unlimited I used only the best. Spend the most on sealer it will lay the flatest. But if I were to spend tht it would have been 7 and change for labor and paint and did it in less than a week. If I had access to better shop space my qwould be done already. 

I wasn't talking physical spending of ten grand but the look of it can be achieved for less if you have know how. And back to original photo. That y33 looks like the had some know how but didn't go further. I just hate that. To me its not difficult and should be done on any custom car. 

You still go the s14? Looks awesome

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;433893]I spent 200 dollars only cause of booth pay. I worked at a shop when I did it. I painted it my self and did all the work. Sine product price was unlimited I used only the best. Spend the most on sealer it will lay the flatest. But if I were to spend tht it would have been 7 and change for labor and paint and did it in less than a week. If I had access to better shop space my qwould be done already. 

I wasn't talking physical spending of ten grand but the look of it can be achieved for less if you have know how. And back to original photo. That y33 looks like the had some know how but didn't go further. I just hate that. To me its not difficult and should be done on any custom car. 

You still go the s14? Looks awesome[/QUOTE]

Nah, I built that car in 2006 it's been long gone. Prob. my favorite S14 I've owned though.

ill play along even though i didnt read the other 5 pages of comments!
 
what is the point of this thread? why waste your time pointing out what you think is an imperfection? 
 
honestly dont reply back because i dont care. i just wanted to post this here instead of making a thread named "why point out the orange peel"

^^ LOL


[QUOTE=PANCAKES!;433337]a sign of things to come.......[/QUOTE]
those things been coming. but they dont call themselves VIP in the US, they call themselves "stanced"

I thought Cuban would know me better by now lol

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;433893]I used only the best. Spend the most on sealer it will lay the flatest.[/QUOTE]

i've never heard so much nonsense come out of one person...do us ALL  a favor and don't give your opinion on painting anymore...its obvious  you aren't a painter.

and i disagree with OG about spending money  on material...fact is, no person can duplicate a OEM paint job.  It may  appear to look OEM but even today's top down draft booth can't compete  with a multi billion dollar process.  I spend abotu $225 on a 5L can of  clear and buy cheap paint that I know will lay out well...cheaper paints  are more prone to fisheyes and poor color coverage...i can still lay it  down like it came out of the top collision centers using sikkens, ppg,  standox, etc.

I don't recall recommending how much you should spend on materials. I only reffered to quality of the finish. It doesn't make any sense to repaint a car and have the finish look worse than the original paint.
 
For the record, I don't paint at all. I went to school for it only to find out I hate it. Since then the extent of my involvment has been technical. I stay informed to make sure my customers gets the best that's avilable (within reason). Reputation is everything, so I approach it from the angle that whatever leaves out of my bay doors needs to look extraordinary and last. The more expensive lines generally represent the newest technology available; better colors, better corrosion resistance, better coverage, better uv resitance, etc.
 
That's not to say that I haven't seen great paintjobs using lower lines, but we sell an image as much as anything else.

January Vipstylecars magazine this car got a 2 page feature one side of the bumper is perfect & the second side doesn't line up at all & has a gap,me personally I don't care & will never do bodywork on another car again but that's kinda crazy..

I don't blame you Tommie.

[QUOTE=OG;433798]...it's a custom car and my thing is if you modify it you should be making it better than how it came. repainting a car with a lower quality paintjob is not an upgrade; just like over aggressive/improperly fitted wheels are not an upgrade, cheap fender work is not an upgrade, non functional suspension is not an upgrade, anything that fit and finish are not 95%+ is not an upgrade. why change it only to make it worse? just so it stands out as a reflection of you? think about what you're saying.[/QUOTE]

+1

There is no excuse for shit bodywork, regardless of what continent it's from.  I might be naive or uninformed on this, but I don't ever recall the old school VIP being presented in anything other than perfect condition, each detail addressed, every item polished.  The presence of the car was what mattered, and the attention to detail was a large part of that presence.  This is what originally attracted me to this style, and some seem to be losing sight of this.

I can't say that it's ever made sense to me to build something that was trendy, or fashionable.  Same way that I never could dress like a hipster, or buy into fashion.  What interests me is STYLE.  All I care about is putting my personality into the things that I see as a reflection of me.  
Take inspiration from wherever you can find it, applaud and appreciate those who gave you the idea, but never lose focus on making something a pure reflection of yourself.  I don't ever want my work, my cars, or my choices in life to reflect back on me through orange peel.

[QUOTE=VIP-UCF;434157]i've never heard so much nonsense come out of one person...do us ALL  a favor and don't give your opinion on painting anymore...its obvious  you aren't a painter.

and i disagree with OG about spending money  on material...fact is, no person can duplicate a OEM paint job.  It may  appear to look OEM but even today's top down draft booth can't compete  with a multi billion dollar process.  I spend abotu $225 on a 5L can of  clear and buy cheap paint that I know will lay out well...cheaper paints  are more prone to fisheyes and poor color coverage...i can still lay it  down like it came out of the top collision centers using sikkens, ppg,  standox, etc.[/QUOTE]

then you sir, are the fucking shit.:disrespect:

[QUOTE=busaj;434207]+1
 
There is no excuse for shit bodywork, regardless of what continent it's from. I might be naive or uninformed on this, but I don't ever recall the old school VIP being presented in anything other than perfect condition, each detail addressed, every item polished. The presence of the car was what mattered, and the attention to detail was a large part of that presence. This is what originally attracted me to this style, and some seem to be losing sight of this.
 
I can't say that it's ever made sense to me to build something that was trendy, or fashionable. Same way that I never could dress like a hipster, or buy into fashion. What interests me is STYLE. All I care about is putting my personality into the things that I see as a reflection of me. 
Take inspiration from wherever you can find it, applaud and appreciate those who gave you the idea, but never lose focus on making something a pure reflection of yourself. I don't ever want my work, my cars, or my choices in life to reflect back on me through orange peel.[/QUOTE]
 
very well said sir.

Sorry I got on VIP UCF level to reply, so I am going to reply with the knowledge I have that he thinks I do not have. But clearly he knows all, knows better, and has a "wide" body benz to prove all of us still yet under construction never gonna get shit finished forum members

Since most things are a matter of opinion, I stated it. and like stated, you can fuck off you if you dont like it and give me attitude for it.


PPG DPs are just more than fine for regular auto finishes. Which is what all good production shops here in WA use. Sure, you may argue sealers are non sense and you can use cheap ass shit, which you can. But if the product is free, why not? VIPUCF jealousy perhaps to hinder why i use what i use and stated what i said? maybe.

But I believe I used NCP280? for my s14. it was more than 10 years ago and sure my ppg certification ran out long ago. I still remember it laid out the flatter than a asian girls ass.
 I like PPG's Primer way better than the other shops that use? i dunno dont remember I dont want to either. I choose this, and recommend it all the time, it sands way smoother, and is not a hard primer like most others.

Sorry if I like sticking with higher end materials. So be it jedi. You can still do a shit job with high end materials that you seem to say is a waste of money. But, PPG is still around cause they make products that prove them selves time after time. I have seen cars painted with omni come out awesome. But would I chance it? no, and why would i?

So instead of looking like a typical keyboard ninja attacking out of no where like a bad kung fu movie. Dont just say you are a fucking idiot dont talk you dont paint. Answer it like a normal person. When I mean a normal person, I mean you dont have to agree. But dont sound like you just had the lowest low, fucked a  hooker did a wild meth party and you are unhappy about your decision in life and take it out on some simple statement that could have had more explanation, rather than calling someone out.

this thread has gone all kinds of directions...  but its making the forum exciting and not so dull anymore...

[QUOTE=Blitz;434240]this thread has gone all kinds of directions...  but its making the forum exciting and not so dull anymore...[/QUOTE]
word


:smiley-rofl:

just make sure yall stay on topic and not so much of a personal attack kind of debate please.

[QUOTE=airmax;434249]just make sure yall stay on topic and not so much of a personal attack kind of debate please.[/QUOTE]

agree...

so yeah from looking at the first post pics blown up it looks like shit.   You can totally see inside the jam is painted black to hide the lines more and make painting the car alot easier.    Do you guys not see this?   Look between the door and quarter it's black in there.   The idea was cool but execution was not so cool.   To some its enough to some its not enough.   Too be honest to pull something off like that perfectly would cost a TON of money and it's just not worth it and can see where this guy decided to cut corners.   Who knows...maybe it was a time restraint thing.

^^i see the black and did the first time, i just thought maybe it was shadow or didnt care enough to think too much into it.

dawg, this isn't the first time you tried giving input on painting...and it isn't the first time you made no sense...sealer is suppose to lay flat...i don't want anyone to get wrong info...and you sure do sound like an idiot...i'll post pics of the benz tomorrow retard...damn, talking about mr. sensative...

and for anyone looking to spray sealer, make sure you at least nib the sealer before you base it...

but i agree...PPG is good stuff...thier waterborne stuff is the only water i would shoot...sprays like solvent...only downside, its liquid gold.

OG, i guess i misunderstood what your were saying...but even the best painters can't duplicate the OEM process...in other words, OEM is the best possible paint job a person can get...

i already had such a strong opinion on this that i didn't really look all that close at the pic. i'd bet my money that they painted the jambs like that anticipating frequent color changes (so they wouldn't have to jamb it every time). that doesn't concern me nearly as much as the amount of imperfections in the paint. way worse than what i saw orginally. the mindset has to be that this is just temporary anyway. i don't really think anyone over here does that so i don't think this shopuld be used as an example of acceptable quality.
 
we've been using ppg ncp27*. it's a corrosion resistant primer that doubles as a surfacer and sealer. technology ftw.

So if I am idiot on paint. What are you an idiot of? I can answer what you are not an idiot of: putting others down for the sake of self gratification. Even if I am and know nothing about it, where do you get off at going out and attacking ones knowledge? Is it your first stroke or is one or two nuts into it? Hella uncalled for I don't mind conversation in why I am wrong, but to be Honda fan boy YouTube commentor is for high schoolers. I give nothing but respect for your build and this is how you treat the people who want to see you succeed in that persons projects? Big ups for you cause you lost a fan of your build, your just another dick behind a great build. 

Blanco left for similar reasons and so should I cause this is retarded. And taints the VIP culture, which is sad cause there aren't many things left that don't have ass duches in it. 

So peace out

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;434272]So if I am idiot on paint. What are you an idiot of? I can answer what you are not an idiot of: putting others down for the sake of self gratification. Even if I am and know nothing about it, where do you get off at going out and attacking ones knowledge? Is it your first stroke or is one or two nuts into it? Hella uncalled for I don't mind conversation in why I am wrong, but to be Honda fan boy YouTube commentor is for high schoolers. I give nothing but respect for your build and this is how you treat the people who want to see you succeed in that persons projects? Big ups for you cause you lost a fan of your build, your just another dick behind a great build. 

Blanco left for similar reasons and so should I cause this is retarded. And taints the VIP culture, which is sad cause there aren't many things left that don't have ass duches in it. 

So peace out[/QUOTE]

i'm not a dick...i just don't want to see false information and for some reason, you give a lot of false information about painting...

i'm an idiot of many things, including mechanic shit...

share your vast knowledge but if you say something dumb, i'll correct you...its not an attack on you...you are just the only person who keeps giving wrong info...plain and simple...

and that blanco dude was a dumbass too

Wow! This really seems to be a touchy subject for allot of people. I would love to give my opinion right now but I just worked 14 hours and it would just take way too long. So if you want the opinion of someone who has been "making shit shiny" for the past 11 years and works at one of the top shops in the D.C. area , then keep your peepers polished......

It's okay. I just found out I have been wrong on everything I thought I was right about. (shrugs) it works for me and the shops I worked at for the last ten years. But I guess not anymore. My loss. Sorry for those who I have wronged in my paint advice. 

Cause of that I feel not to contribute anything if anyone asks cause of this situation. I will remain here as a lurker but fuck yo questions I will not answer them.

LOL. We've all been there and I'm sure we'll still be here when you get back. Enjoy your vacation!

well that was a good read while bored at work :biggthumpup:

how about another one??
[IMG]http://www.stancenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/6785547329_c1182e1e39_o2.jpg[/IMG]
wonder where them wheels came from?:slap:
[IMG]http://www.stancenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/271.jpg[/IMG]

they been poking a lot more lately.

Damn that's nasty :slap:

man this car is way worse but this car might be used for something else other then vip... VIP/Drift?   There is hardly any camber and the car looks beat to shit.   On a drift event car would look pretty sweet smoking tires and going sideways.

i think that is the new style with wheel fitment.

at osaka auto messe had 2 cars that is totally messed up...like what a bondo show car would look in 2 years...they were dusty one with rear stock wheels with widen fenders and one is mismatch rims just to slapped it on kinda look...may be they show it for a chance to sell used parts.

i personally don't like those that is modded too much with bodywork...like a chick with too much bondo on their face if you know what i mean..girls that are naturally beautiful don't require much make up while some do in order to look decent...certain model of cars are like that..."too ugly stock".

damn i love critics.should not call them critics call them "haters"

That car's gotta be an unfinished project.  
 
There's something about those bee dragon cars though.  I like it =)  Fit & finish aside, i'm digging that style.  Not something i'm planning to do, but it's definitely unique.  Race car look on a sedan.

[QUOTE=american cefiro;438819]damn i love critics.should not call them critics call them "haters"[/QUOTE]

You think that looks good?   I don't think I'm hating I'm being truthful.   I would hate if I was jealous but to be honest I'm not jealous of anything about that car.

Yeah I would have to agree on this one. That car does look pretty beat. I would be inclined to also think that it is used for something else as well. Better than anything I have built for sure but still looks dusty, scratched and mad orange peel on the doors.

[QUOTE=american cefiro;438819]damn i love critics.should not call them critics call them "haters"[/QUOTE]
:innoutrofl2:

no ones hating.

The body work, paint,fit and finish of this car is fucking horrendous. I would rather drive stock. The wheel flares look like they are some generic crap from a summit racing catalog. The rear bumper extensions look like they are attached with bubble gum. The moulding on the rear bumper has been painted over black with who knows how many paint jobs while the door moldings remain chrome. The left side view mirror is dangling at an akward angle. The reflection in the rear door looks like a fuzzy-wuzzy and the reflection in the quarter panel looks like a goddamn carnival funhouse mirror. And it looks like the whole car was painted outside in some windy, dusty alley somewhere.

This is where the saying "you sell the sizzle, not the steak" comes from. THIS CAR HAS  NO STEAK!! 

But business is business. 

And they will buy products.


[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;438648]
[IMG]http://www.stancenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/271.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

^^^ The car above... maybe they go harder with their car and drive the shit out of them like its a civic. Racing hard and taking corners.. in other words like how you see some drift cars at car shows showing some minor wear. I mean look at the tire for once those look like some beater racing tire.

no its cause the tires and wheels been passed around.

I think this is what UFCVIP is on about.. japan doing it so big, and so crazy, they have to come out with a new style. Which they are mimicking my skills at painting and putting it into the scene. Thanks JAPAN!!

those flares look so basic to me.    I think those add on flares that you rivet on look better than this.

[QUOTE=american cefiro;438819]damn i love critics.should not call them critics call them "haters"[/QUOTE]
 
 
you just summed up the problem with our scene in one post!  and no, the problem isnt people being haters....

this dude said fuzzy wuzzy.
 
very cryptic addy.

[QUOTE=BAHC;439095]you just summed up the problem with our scene in one post!  and no, the problem isnt people being haters....[/QUOTE]


the problem is the word hater, every time you say something that isn't snow flaking someone and making them feel warm and cozy its being a hater. Long were the days were you on any forum, in person or anywhere can give an honest opinion in a respectful manner without being accused of being a hater.

So i guess the word hater isn't the problem its people like american cefiro who think 20th place trophies in school is a good thing, picking teams is bad for self esteem and everyone is equal no matter how good or bad you do...that is not only the problem with this and every other scene, its the problem with American society in general.....

Too many american cefiro's polluting the world with pussification and labeling it hating.

haha I know!! fuzzy wuzzy was a vip bear

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;439140]haha I know!! fuzzy wuzzy was a vip bear[/QUOTE]

fuzzy wuzzy had junction produce hair

HAHAHAHAHHA:innoutrofl2:

[QUOTE=JDOX;439139]the problem is the word hater, every time you say something that isn't snow flaking someone and making them feel warm and cozy its being a hater. Long were the days were you on any forum, in person or anywhere can give an honest opinion in a respectful manner without being accused of being a hater.

So i guess the word hater isn't the problem its people like american cefiro who think 20th place trophies in school is a good thing, picking teams is bad for self esteem and everyone is equal no matter how good or bad you do...that is not only the problem with this and every other scene, its the problem with American society in general.....

Too many american cefiro's polluting the world with pussification and labeling it hating.[/QUOTE]

repost:
[YOUTUBE]cJD8pZiRIzs[/YOUTUBE]

[QUOTE=Kouki Monster;439144]repost:
[YOUTUBE]cJD8pZiRIzs[/YOUTUBE][/QUOTE]
1st time to listen this, straight talk.

Way to go: DO WORK SON:biggthumpup:

Let me put a few things in context before I continue. First is that I always respect people who work on their own cars. If someone came up to me and said "I just finished my first project, I did all the work myself" and then they showed me the picture of the black car, I would say "great job" and I would respect them for making the effort. Second is that I hate garage queens that sit around collecting dust and then get rolled out into  the harsh sunlight once or twice a year for the "BIG shows". Fuck that. I think people views become skewed on the fact that a CAR is first and foremost a mode of transportation. If you want something pretty to look at that stands still buy some collectors art and hang it on your wall. To me the whole point of building a car is to get through all the planing and headaches and the empty wallet and the waiting and go hit the streets in that badass machine that you built and break some fucking necks!


I am a painter. I paint cars all day long. 5 out of 7 days a week for the past 10 years. I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly. I have also seen bodywork, good bad and ugly. I have also seen parts, OEM, aftermarket, and after after market. If I paint a car and it dosent look perfect, I take it to heart and feel like I havent done my job properly. I try to make every car look better than when it came in. This is what you call self respect. Unfortunately self respect is a scarce commodity these days. In my opinion, if you are going to call yourself a painter or a builder or a bodyman or a fabricator, then you better be able to turn out a top notch product. If Chip Foose and the boys can turn some 1960's muscle car with rusted out floor pans into a showcar in a few days, then why cant us common folk do a simple job in an even longer time frame? How could someone put together a car like that black car and look at the end results and be OK with it? All I will say is that when my car is finished, some people may not like my particular style, but  nobody will be able to say that there is bad workmanship on my car. Because if its not right I will do it over until its right. This is what you call self respect.

the problem is, its not their first car, and its not their last. And its a show a lot like sema to gain interest and prospect. So why not? Garage queen a lot of vip cars are, and a lot arent. but that doesnt mean you have crap work either. You can have baller work, and it just gets chipped up from daily driving, but at least its legit. Cause it was legit then, and still is.

I do agree, there is a learning curve with a lot of new people in any scene. I appreciate the hard work they put in. And there is no reason to hate on if they screw up in a masking job or dirt in some paint.. cause they painted in a garage


My friend from japan said the scene is full of younger kids. Who do it for hype and attention like here. Flooded and dont respect those who paved the way for them. And this, might be the first best example of it, if its not a drift car. 

Back when I can remember, and got heavily into cars and community. It was who had the cleanest car. Sure we had body kits and shogun kits and what ever in the 90s. But you know what? We made an effort to make it garage queen status for daily driving. Cause the love was there! And we were not inundated with so many mods. It was for a lot of people, just paint, fender markers, and wheels and a super drop, none of that flush stuff. We wanted to be like the touring cars. Tuck 18 and then soon to be 19in in the fenders with touring wings and Sheep Dog exhausts cause that was the rage in areas. 

But you look at vip stuff then it was all super elegant style. Like what OG is after. Its all simple, but super clean stuff. You dont lose focus on the build cause you are trying to out do so and so with more and more crazy mods than the next, and soon you run out of money for it. When a Paint job and minimal body work and not so aggressive wheels would have made a better statement than semi par work and paint to fit some gangster wheels and more low and do all that interior and sound bs.

just my 3 cents (inflation nowadays)