Building a True VIP car

When it comes to building a true VIP car like a Q45 or GS or LS do the wheels have to be japanese like work, ssr, weds to be considered a true VIP car? Also how do yall feel about trafficstar wheels?

Absolutely not IMO.  Most of the Japanese companies copied German wheels to begin with.

[QUOTE=blackanese;472774]Absolutely not IMO.  Most of the Japanese companies copied German wheels to begin with.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh i see, reason i ask is bc i was thinking of picking up a set of trafficstars if i sell my veilsides!

[QUOTE=Flush Y33;472775]Ahhh i see, reason i ask is bc i was thinking of picking up a set of trafficstars if i sell my veilsides![/QUOTE]
I thought Trafficstars where made by Riverside in Japan?  I could be wrong though.

You are correct sir ^

Yea Trafficstar is definitely Japanese, they're North American counterpart would be Maya though....

If you notice, a lot of the japanese guys are actually starting to run North American built wheels. I've said it before, no matter where you are it's all about having what you don't normally have. Like rebadging your Lexus to Toyota, Infiniti to Nissan (Japan does the same thing some of us do!) So running wheels like CCW, VIP modular HRE, DPE etc is out of the norm and usually ends up being bad ass and unique!

Nah, Maya is dead after the Dazz(?) stopped distributing Hart product, Trafficstar and Hart is being marketed here by Konig's parent company iirc.

Trafficstar makes really pretty wheels but good luck getting any replacement parts if you happen to need them. My japanese wife caled and emailed their company until i finally gave up and moved on.

Im waiting to get my vip modulars back from vip, and already got a lot of attention with them on my crown out here in japan exactly cuz they are rare, and rare is vip...

Even bad imported beer from the states is popular, cuz its imported/rare so therefore it has to be awesome, right?

Thanks for the info guys, just bit the bullet on these trafficatars! Guy is coming from austin to pick up the veilsides tonight!

I cam across a really good deal on I-Forgered Aero wheels on my craigslist...if the guy will contact me back I might be running them! 

The biggest thing in VIP is, non-knockoff/cheap (Rota, XXR, Konig, etc). We will overlook Vossen, Varrsteon, MRR.

[QUOTE=gh0st;472906]We will overlook Vossen, Varrsteon, MRR.[/QUOTE]

Varrstoen falls in the same category as rota.  Complete knockoffs

[QUOTE=blackanese;472908]Varrstoen falls in the same category as rota.  Complete knockoffs[/QUOTE]

Very true, 33flavors made me well aware in the beginning and im glad he did or i would have wasted my money and lost on resale, real wheels are def worth it!!

Then I stand corrected. I don't like Varrstoen, but didn't know where they stood in our culture.

i just know they ^ ^ ^ are super effing cheap and often times in life you get what you pay for.  the funniest thing to me is when people buy 5k wheels and then put cheap knockoff chinese tires on them  ;)

exceptions are when you know you have massive camber wear, don't care, and know you will be replacing your tires very often  ;)   cuz these guys usually aren't flying 100 down the highway in most cases...

I'm a Vossen hater....

:werd2:[QUOTE=speedaddict;472970]I'm a Vossen hater....[/QUOTE]

Please define what's a "True VIP Car" as opposed to a "VIP Car" ... I'm confused....

Just to clear up some information, TrafficStar used to be made by Riverside in Japan, but Riverside has since stopped manufacturing wheels.  TrafficStar is now manufactured by Work Wheels.  Riverside also used to manufacture Altstadt, Maya, and the old Scara Japan wheel.  Advanti Wheels had a buy in and distribution rights to TrafficsStar when they were made by Riverside.  As far as I know, no one has signed an agreement with Work for the new generation of TrafficStar wheels.  Contact me if you are looking for a set of the original TrafficStars since I have a few sets in my garage right now.

^ thanks for sharing that. It's crazy how the name can get bounced around between companies.

Hmmm if Riverside ain't in the buz no more, then who's manufacturing Mayas nowadays? I always felt they were of lower quality.... :shrug:

Can you still buy Maya new?

[QUOTE=Rodneyc77;473076]Please define what's a "True VIP Car" as opposed to a "VIP Car" ... I'm confused....[/QUOTE]
+1

just put curtains LOL !!

it doesnt matter what wheels you have! what matters is how they flow with the car !!

[QUOTE=silos5;486108]it doesnt matter what wheels you have! what matters is how they flow with the car !![/QUOTE]

So youre saying, diamond rings vs cz .... doesn't matter cause they are both shiney on your wifes finger .... right?

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i went to the riverside wheel factory in osaka. i sold many trafficstars from dtx, rtm, rtv. they are popular here in Hawaii.

I don't like the idea of knockoff wheels on a VIP car but that's a personal decision.  As far as having to be a Japanese wheel no it doesn't. Don't be surprised when you start seeing Luxury Abstract Wheels on some VIP cars in Japan real soon.  BBS and other German wheels are often used as well.

[QUOTE=evilchargerfan;486151]So youre saying, diamond rings vs cz .... doesn't matter cause they are both shiney on your wifes finger .... right?
[/QUOTE]
as far as its not a knockoff wheel, it doesnt matter...sport, vipstyle, japanees, german ect. I personaly switched from japanees wheels to euro, because I dont see much euro wheels on vipcars.

Hmmm interesting... *goes and checks facebook* Aaargh why you blur your only current status pic?! =)

[QUOTE=Juzzo;486208]Hmmm interesting... *goes and checks facebook* Aaargh why you blur your only current status pic?! =)[/QUOTE]

Bahaha what do you mean, I didn't think it was that blurry just a crappy cellphone pic? lol

I was talking about Pavel's new wheels =)

Do what you like OP

[QUOTE=speedaddict;472970]I'm a Vossen hater....[/QUOTE]
Word, I'm on the same page as you.

Building a true VIP car is all about using "premium" parts. 2k Chinese cast wheels are definitely not premium. Same with running junk ass suspension like BC and Megan.

[QUOTE=JZS_RCTS;486218]Word, I'm on the same page as you.

Building a true VIP car is all about using "premium" parts. 2k Chinese cast wheels are definitely not premium. [SIZE=4]Same with running junk ass suspension like BC[/SIZE] and Megan.[/QUOTE]
WOH WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? Just feels like such an odd statement considering their customer service and overall choices for custom setups with a pretty fucking good price-quality ratio...

So your saying that when building a true VIP car it's a pissing contest on who can pay the most for parts and over hyped/priced high-end labels? So if Armani would order seat covers from Clazzio with their logo it would be cool to rock em and pay 10x the normal price... just a loose example, but I think the point comes across? Most of the shit around still comes from China(and similar) the last time I checked...

--------
Okay just read your post on the AirRex thread... I'm kinda understanding your doubts about all the stuff that comes from South-East Asia, but some of the companies who outsource out there still do in house r&d elsewhere. But still... hmmm... lemme reflect on this =)

Ive heard nothing but good things out of BC. Maybe thats just in my circle. But as far as wheels go, I agree on pay for quality. But I would not lump Vossen in with companies such as Rota,XXR, Varrstoen, etc. They seem to be very solid wheels with a nice variety of designs, as well as they just release a competition forged series. They seem to have a lot of investment into their line. Wouldnt be surprised to see them become something like a ADV.1 over time.

let me clear something up...I just dont like their designs, has nothing to with where they are made.  We live in a Global economy...lots of stuff are made in South East Asia and are still good quality.  You have to judge their way of manufacturing, QC,  and materials as opposed to location where they are made.

I respect that your asking questions and not just tossing parts on your ride. 

Nothing wrong with a solid mid level suspension like Megan/BCracing. I ran K's on my first build and loved them.

Have you guys ever driven on a proper / quality suspension setup?

I had some all black older RSR struts with pretty stiff springs on my Aristo for the first 2 years when I imported it... rode pretty fucking good but was too hard for my back in the long run :shrug:

I ran zeal on my SC300 and integra back in the days...took the integra on the track back before it was "cool", loads of fun

I agree with the wheels part, but I don't like knock off wheels or reps in any way so it has nothing to do with whether or not I think they're fit for a "vip" car build. 

I agree partially with JZS. The whole vip deal is about running high end parts and building shit the right way, lets not forget the vip lifestyle is also a factor. If you wear a suit does a 99$ suit from China town say the same thing as an Armani suit?

As for the suspension, I don't think BC or Megan are to be labeled as low end at all. Take a look at Y33 and 34s for instance. You think we have access to endless amount of high end coilovers off the shelf? Hell no, we're lucky we can get our hands on coils at all. So running BC and Megan is about as top notch as it gets.

The Lexus guys have it a bit different, they have a set of coils in every single price range. As well as pretty good options for adjustable multi link (still doesn't mean those builds are inferior because they run Megan or BC parts)

[QUOTE=KNEXX;486261]I respect that your asking questions and not just tossing parts on your ride. 

Nothing wrong with a solid mid level suspension like Megan/BCracing. I ran K's on my first build and loved them.[/QUOTE]

Let's be realistic here...Tein CS/SS, Tanabe Z40/CST, Apexi S1 are examples of a solid mid level suspension system. Megan/BC are bottom of the barrel.


[QUOTE=Juzzo;486298]I had some all black older RSR struts with pretty stiff springs on my Aristo for the first 2 years when I imported it... rode pretty fucking good but was too hard for my back in the long run :shrug:[/QUOTE]

RSR Black-i are one of the best shocks setup for VIP cars. Problem is,  RSR USA is painful to deal with. I have been asking for a year now for  them to bring in a set of shocks for me and they still haven't. Not sure which ones came on your Aristo, they make a few setups for that car. They might just not have been dialed in properly, or if they were their older version VIP/low form shock, they might have had super high spring rates with a standard shock stroke, which would explain the rough ride. 


[QUOTE=4DGS;486312]
As for the suspension, I don't think BC or Megan are to be labeled as low end at all.
The Lexus guys have it a bit different, they have a set of coils in every single price range. As well as pretty good options for adjustable multi link (still doesn't mean those builds are inferior because they run Megan or BC parts)[/QUOTE]

I don't understand how people aren't suspicious when a set of BC's cost  $800-$1000.....they all use the same mass produced damper and make  mounts for every application under the sun and then offer whatever  spring rate and "custom valve" them in house without a shock dyno in  sight. I guess in this day and age where our economy sucks people are just simply  looking for the cheapest possible way to build their car, which is  perfectly fine but please don't get butt hurt when I say your car is NOT  VIP because you're not using premium parts and building it under the  direct definition of a VIP car.

You guys all look down on VIP cars running Rota or Varstolen or any other bottom of the barrel knockoff junk China wheel....but then defend coilovers in the same category? Makes absolutely no sense! :pat:

How the shit can you even put BC/Megan in the same boat as Rota and Varrstoen? Rota, Varrstoen and rep companies feed off the designs of other companies, others work and R&D to build a shit product that explodes.

BC/Megan (yes they are the same company...) Went out of their way to start producing suspension for some of the big bodies when there wasn't even a huge market for it. Again coming back to the Y34 Y33, NOBODY was producing coils with built in spindles and nobody produced aftermarket spindles. The only other options there are JIC or Insurance, neither of which offer custom valving or spring rates right out of the box (even at the $2500 price tag) and neither are easy to contact or get a hold of.

Not to mention, Rota and Varrstoen are proven to be shit where as BC/Megan are road proven to hold up fantastically well. They may be affordable but do not question their build quality based on where they're built and the name on the box. BCs side by side with my Anceltion coils is far from a night and day difference...

Custom valving and spring rate is irrelevant because the shocks are never tuned properly.

They're comparable because they're both the bottom of the barrel in their category. I've proven them to be crap, our cold weather here in Canada kills them within a year or two. I've pulled off at least 30 sets of BC/Megan last year alone on STi's and replaced them with KW's.

i had a set of bc coils prior to my bold world set up, night and day difference, they were supposed to be much stiffer than they were. i was not 100% disappointed because of cost, but they were not what i had expected. would i buy them again? probably depending on the application (it is hard to pass up coil-overs for 900.00).

i agree with jzs on a lot of points but disagree on some of the comparisons. most importantly is that i believe that a vip car [I]should[/I] be built with the highest quality components available. it is a luxury based style. you can duplicate the same look with lesser parts but, imo, the exclusivity is part of it.

however, comparing a budget coilover to a knock off wheel is inaccurate in my mind. my main issue with replicas is the infringment. take that away and a cast wheel is a cast wheel, a billet is a billet, and a forged is a forged. many of the most popular wheels are cast or cast face with spun forged barrels. i would compare this to a budget suspension, more form than function. a high end suspension would be comparable to a true forged wheel such as a bbs lm/lm-r/rs-gt, rays te37. forged billets would fall somehwere in the middle.

what jzs is talking about, regarding suspension, is on a level that most members are ignorant of. i get the impression he knows more about it than me, but i know enough to perhaps shed a little light for those who are clueless. suspension is a functional system, even if we treat is as a cosmetic one. just because a budget and a high end coilover both slam the piss out of your car doesn't mean they do it equally. additionally, the country of origin doesn't make it automatically good or bad. in fact, i've seen japanese coilovers dismissed as a whole by some people that know more about it than any of us. it comes down to the valving; both compression and rebound, the relationship of between the 2, matching of the set, and the linearity of the adjusters.

let me make it clear that i am going stictly off of research and have no experience in actual testing, nor do i pretend to know what is optimal. i'm just trying to make y'all aware of the science that most never think about.

the first step is to understand the basics. spring rate determines the stroke of the suspension, damping determines the speed. for the most part, the damping is what seperates the great from the not so good. damping, for our purposes, is broken down into compression and rebound. compression damping is resistance to compression, rebound is resistance to decompression.

on almost all dampers we deal with compression damping is set or adjustable at a low ratio to rebound. i have read that japanese coilovers have too high compression, and when jic usa switched to stateside production this was one of the things that was mentioned to me. jzs says that taiwanese coilovers generally have low compression/high rebound. the initial compression/rebound matching is important because if you have one that is too high or low adjustment may throw the other spec off when you attempt to correct it.

another thing i have become aware of is that the adjusters are a weak point on most coilovers. out of 30 clicks you may have many on each end that do nothing, with the middle few making large erratic changes.

matching between dampers in a set is also an issue. you may have 4 dampers on your car that never match, or you may have 4 dampers on your car that match at a different setting on each one. there's really no way of knowing without having each shock dynoed (which jzs is fortunate enough to be having done on his custom zeals i assume).

so obviously all coilovers are not created equally. are jzs' recommendations on point? i have no idea. what i do know is that what is considered the standard is definitely nowhere near the best. i also know that i sell a lot of bc and have a lot of happy customers. for the record, bc racing and megan racing both come out of the same factory afaik, but are not the same product. if you hold the two side by side you will see the difference and if you ride them back to back you will feel it. for megan to sell a lower quality product as the company who makes them at the same price point is a slap in the face to the consumer imo.

even if the case is made that all coilovers are not created equal, and the standard is at the lower end of the spectrum, i just don't see the market for high end coilovers for vip cars becoming significant. the truth is that importing a high end coilover is no more difficult for the consumer than getting a set of wheels or a body kit or any other imported part. you pay some money and wait for the product to arrive. that's it. but why pay and wait when you could spend less money and get it faster right? exactly...

i would love to see things change for the better but in reality the time, effort, and money it takes to set up these accounts has to yield results. there have been instances where i couldn't even move the buy-in because the market didn't accept the product.

Very good post OG.

Very good indeed.. i hate to throw more fuel to the fire but.. what about air suspension.

Since there arent many options out there in the usa.. 
you are either stuck w/ 
ksport/d2/airrex
uas 
or air runner.

what would you guys classify those at.
and would going w/ something super rare like bold world be more vip than say going w/ uas or  airruner? 


i am speaking more from a suspension setup and less from an air management setup.

I am with bhsuperlows, I am interested to know opinions and knowledge on the different air setups as concerns to quality and "VIP" status.... Mainly because I just bought one of these a fore mentioned systems. haha :shrug:

Just wondering people's opinions, figured this is the right thread, how do you guys feel about mismatched interior pieces (company wise)

I like Belleza curtains / neck pads simply because they offer tan and the neck pads look OEM, but I don't see that belleza makes much else other than those items? (And tissue boxes but not really interested in those atm) Just wondering, I'm looking for a sun shade right now and see junction produce sells one, but didn't want to look weird lol

^^why do you need a name brand sun shade?

I don't lol, but if I'm going to buy a sun shade why not? :shrug: 

I used that as an example because I'm actually getting a sunshade soon, whether I get the Junction Produce one or not I'm still wondering about my question, for when the car develops more and I want more interior tidbits then neck pads / curtains..

Cause its baller jdm yo lol @airmax ... I kid, I kid. Haha 

But I agree. I see no reason to spend such prices on a sunshade unless its a final piece in a complete JP or VIP'ed out interior. That being said, too each his own. 

PS: No offense meant.

@austin... I see no problem in different brand interior products as long as the products do not have conflicting styles/colors.

It's all good guys I'm not taking offense to anything, I just want a sunshade at the moment to keep my interior nice, and do plan on going in on the car, so while it should be a final touch, it might be one of my first.. lol Why buy twice is my outlook. :)

And thanks for the answer AtlVIPSTYLE. :biggthumpup:

Understandable austin, if you have a plan set, it is always better to just buy once and spend the money for the product you want. But I would make sure you map out the style you want so that you do buy the product you want once and not change the theme of the interior half way through haha

Ahaha very true, I have a nice little plan setup in my head, only undecided factor is if I want change up the factory headliner / pillars, my factory interior is still mint, and I actually like it, so mainly just add-ons for me, and keeping the existing interior as mint as it is now.

not sure what kind of car you have, but the jp sunshade is 2gs specific if im not mistaken. even then, i think you can get a sunshade for a much lower cost and get some vinyl to make it your own :shrug:

Very true, that's the first I heard of it being 2GS specific, I own a UCF20 so I'd have to measure the dimensions..

Thanks for the heads up :biggthumpup:

[QUOTE=JZS_RCTS;486353]Custom valving and spring rate is irrelevant because the shocks are never tuned properly.

They're comparable because they're both the bottom of the barrel in their category. I've proven them to be crap, our cold weather here in Canada kills them within a year or two. I've pulled off at least 30 sets of BC/Megan last year alone on STi's and replaced them with KW's.[/QUOTE]

I'm also in Canada and I can name 8-10 cars I've done megans and more than that on BCs that DO winter drive with no complaints. Multiple years on many of those. I also annually adjust those coils when it comes time to slam them back down for spring. But they require regular maintenance, coils need love too and that is all the BCs and Megans require to deal with our harsh climate. Rubber sleeves and correct use of anti seize is key.

And comparing KWs to $900 coils purely for the instance of winter driving is silly. KW will obviously win due to the stainless bodies. 

This is kind of reminding me of the age old debate of silly 350Z owners arguing progressive to linear rates when their shit is slammed to ground and dragging pebbles. When it comes down to it, BC and Megan do their job for vip cars better than a lot of the high end Japanese coils as they go low as hell. KWs are set up to drop the car only an inch or so and I have first hand experience in them not going low enough. You really think their numbers and dyno shock testing is really going to make sense when the car is dropped 5" and has 20mm of preload added? Not to mention the fact that rebound and compression is starting to edge towards being completely irrelevant when you're tuckin' 18s.

All I'm saying here is backing up the known ability of high end coilovers and their R&D for the use on vip cars or "hellaflush" cars is dumb. These cars are not set up to handle well, sure they can be, but they aren't and won't be. It's like buying motons and daily driving your car without... or like Motons on a Dodge neon lol

^ I'm in the same boat with you Blain... When we're talking about dropping the car 4-6" it's hard to find high-end coils and ones that will still work with rest of the suspension like they were designed to. And when we're throwing cups or bags on em equations fly out the window :shrug:

[QUOTE=4DGS;486668]I'm also in Canada and I can name 8-10 cars I've done megans and more than that on BCs that DO winter drive with no complaints. Multiple years on many of those. I also annually adjust those coils when it comes time to slam them back down for spring. But they require regular maintenance, coils need love too and that is all the BCs and Megans require to deal with our harsh climate. Rubber sleeves and correct use of anti seize is key.

And comparing KWs to $900 coils purely for the instance of winter driving is silly. KW will obviously win due to the stainless bodies. 

This is kind of reminding me of the age old debate of silly 350Z owners arguing progressive to linear rates when their shit is slammed to ground and dragging pebbles. When it comes down to it, BC and Megan do their job for vip cars better than a lot of the high end Japanese coils as they go low as hell. KWs are set up to drop the car only an inch or so and I have first hand experience in them not going low enough. You really think their numbers and dyno shock testing is really going to make sense when the car is dropped 5" and has 20mm of preload added? Not to mention the fact that rebound and compression is starting to edge towards being completely irrelevant when you're tuckin' 18s.

All I'm saying here is backing up the known ability of high end coilovers and their R&D for the use on vip cars or "hellaflush" cars is dumb. These cars are not set up to handle well, sure they can be, but they aren't and won't be. It's like buying motons and daily driving your car without... or like Motons on a Dodge neon lol[/QUOTE]


I have no issues with shocks seizing. .I have issues with dampers blowing up, leaking oil, etc. Maybe where you  are you don't get the same winters we do in Alberta...especially  combined with our shitty roads. What maintenance do they require? 

KW was used as an example on STi's. I'm not saying to put KW's on a VIP car, it's impossible to slam a car on KW's. I'm using KW as an example of quality. There are equivalents in the VIP suspension lineup. 

It's a really simple concept...do you want quality parts on your car or not? I also know a ton of guys that run Rota and Varstoen wheels with no issues...they drift and race on them and they don't crack and have been running on them for years. Does that make it a good product? Does that mean a kid can chop his springs, put on Rota's and his car is VIP? Get real.

Yes their numbers and dyno shock testing is really going to make sense (even in a 5" drop), because the shocks are well balanced, tuned properly, and consistent with each other. Stability is increased, handling is increased, ride is better, and the car is overall safer...AND you're supporting a quality product from a company that did proper R&D because they care about making a good product. Instead of a factory that's cranking out 1000 sets of coilovers a day with 50% markup using universal shocks and springs.

Even though you agreed with me before, you're saying that quality suspension is useless? The last part of your quote is what gets me...because it's so ridiculous. Using your logic; since VIP cars aren't race cars, and they don't go fast they're just low and slow, why do you need to run quality wheels? Run Rota, or Varstoen, or whatever...because they do the job just fine right?

You can disagree with me all you want. The definition of a VIP car is still the same. It's about building a "premium" car. There is nothing premium about bottom of the barrel coilovers.

I saw "sti" and "rota" In The same sentence ....  and all my nasioc related nightmares flashed right before my very eyes


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Well there seems to be some (minor) fundamental differences in the way we all view the world we live in... like I get the literal meaning of VIP, I know the origin of the style and still I interpret it my own way. I'm no baller, so I gotta make sacrifices when it comes to how the parts are priced/labeled and whether a lower quality part will get the same job done, even if it would need modifications/tuning and wouldn't look as nice in the original form as the one with 5x price tag. Not everything should be taken too harshly/personally... There ain't  any originality left in this world anyhow, so no point in sweating about it. The more we try to control the ever increasing chaos, the more we help it to add up :shrug:

No hard feelings at all, I'm not trying to make this into a giant deal either.

But seriously, what's "premium" and "VIP" about a car with inferior parts that a kid working at a gas station can build in a couple of pay cheques? Just because its a good VIP platform doesn't make it automatically VIP. 

I'm not here to judge who's car is and isn't VIP....look at the thread title, I'm just giving my 2 cents.

i like this debate, reminds me of a few years ago lol.

I really like all the conversation that has come from my seemingly simple thread! :P

conversation and debate is always a good thing.

[QUOTE=JZS_RCTS;486696]I have no issues with shocks seizing. .I have issues with dampers blowing up, leaking oil, etc. Maybe where you  are you don't get the same winters we do in Alberta...especially  combined with our shitty roads. What maintenance do they require? 

We sure as hell don't you get as much snow in one day as we do in the entire season! lol

[B]What I am saying there, is if taken care of BC and Megans handle winter just fine. I have no have any of those coils die prematurely from winter weather. But I sleeve the coils so they don't corrode. One thing rolling slammed in winter has taught me![/B]

KW was used as an example on STi's. I'm not saying to put KW's on a VIP car, it's impossible to slam a car on KW's. I'm using KW as an example of quality. There are equivalents in the VIP suspension lineup. 

[B]Ok, gotcha. I took that the other way.[/B]

It's a really simple concept...do you want quality parts on your car or not? I also know a ton of guys that run Rota and Varstoen wheels with no issues...they drift and race on them and they don't crack and have been running on them for years. Does that make it a good product? Does that mean a kid can chop his springs, put on Rota's and his car is VIP? Get real.

[B]Majority of the guys on here have the opinion on the wheel game the same as myself. We don't just buy high end wheels because of the quality, but because we believe in authenticity and supporting those that designed and built these wheels. Going back to my statement about cheap suits with armani tags up against the real deal. You're not just buying a quality product you're supporting authenticity. Sure 8/10 people won't even notice you're wearing a knock off and just think you're ballin' as shit. That's not the case with suspension though.[/B]

Yes their numbers and dyno shock testing is really going to make sense (even in a 5" drop), because the shocks are well balanced, tuned properly, and consistent with each other. Stability is increased, handling is increased, ride is better, and the car is overall safer...AND you're supporting a quality product from a company that did proper R&D because they care about making a good product. Instead of a factory that's cranking out 1000 sets of coilovers a day with 50% markup using universal shocks and springs.

[B]The numbers DON'T make sense though. I know first hand when dealing with baller companies you tell them you're as low as we ride and they laugh. They then tell you the coils aren't built for that, the rebound of the damper is irrelevant when you're stupid slammed. Same reason almost every company voids the warranty if they know you rode on the coils at full stiff 24/7.[/B]


Even though you agreed with me before, you're saying that quality suspension is useless? The last part of your quote is what gets me...because it's so ridiculous. Using your logic; since VIP cars aren't race cars, and they don't go fast they're just low and slow, why do you need to run quality wheels? Run Rota, or Varstoen, or whatever...because they do the job just fine right?

[B]Again, coming back to the authenticity. BC/Megan didn't steal their designs and brand them there own. Rota/varrstoen etc do exactly that. They take a great product, copy it line for line and then build sell it for a 1/4 the normal rate. BC/Megan use their own R&D to develop coilovers that work for daily driving, they don't steal off the shelf and replicate it. But given the $900 price tag you're not going to be able to have the same characteristics as the $3k coilovers.

Don't get me wrong, I went out of my way to avoid the use of BCs on my cars. Not because I think they're a bad product (clearly) but because I choose to build cars with higher end products. So don't think I'm trying to defend them because it's what I use. I'm not saying that they are on par with that of the high end coilovers. I'm saying they aren't the lowest of the low and they do what they do perfectly fine![/B]

[/QUOTE]

Bolded for ease! 

[QUOTE=JZS_RCTS;486697]You can disagree with me all you want. The definition of a VIP car is still the same. It's about building a "premium" car. There is nothing premium about bottom of the barrel coilovers.[/QUOTE]

And that's what I mean, they aren't the bottom of the bucket, there are much more inferior products on the market. (See MDU and raceland) that do absolutely nothing to insure the product will be decent.

[QUOTE=JZS_RCTS;486714]No hard feelings at all, I'm not trying to make this into a giant deal either.

But seriously, what's "premium" and "VIP" about a car with inferior parts that a kid working at a gas station can build in a couple of pay cheques? Just because its a good VIP platform doesn't make it automatically VIP. 

I'm not here to judge who's car is and isn't VIP....look at the thread title, I'm just giving my 2 cents.[/QUOTE]

This just makes it appear as bragging rights, there's a premium build and then there is overkill for no apparent reason. Motons or Zeals on a street sweeper, to me, is a waste. But I'm not saying it's not bad ass as shit that you have Zeals on your car and ride slammed as hell haha.


And just to make it clear to other people just reading this, don't be mistaken that we're bickering and at each others throat, we're not and this is what the forums are for. If we can't have a discussion about something with out being called haters or trolls then these forums are useless. :shrug:

[QUOTE=4DGS;486736]And just to make it clear to other people just reading this, don't be mistaken that we're bickering and at each others throat, we're not and this is what the forums are for. If we can't have a discussion about something with out being called haters or trolls then these forums are useless. :shrug:[/QUOTE]

:biggthumpup:

i recently put bc coils with phantom air cup suspension on my car,, i eventually had bc's on my last 05 LS430UL and loved the ride.  my current 05 crown athlete rides completely different on the bc coils, not sure why, but i much preferred the feel when they were on my previous LS, even with the same rims...  my current crown had some japanese brand coilovers on it when i bought it and they felt even more shitty to me, and felt so much better when i replaced them.  the brand stickers/labels had long since worn off on the coils though so i couldn't tell what brand they were unfortunatley, which is why i replaced them since they were probably really old by the time i bought the car.

i've given a lot of thought to what type of air setup i would do in the future if i had the chance/choice and i do see a huge difference in price.  you could do a cheap mans air setup for 3-4k or you do a full out 8k+ with e-level air management air setup on all top of the line top brand parts.  is there a difference, not sure.  i guess i'd have to feel two different price point setups in two of the exact same cars.  would the 8k air setup be more vip than the 4k air setup?

my wife put it very clearly to me at the osaka auto show,, the cars she felt were the best were the best balanced.

to me this doesn't mean you can't buy an old 2gs for $6k and turn it into prom queen show winner $40k later, but to me it does mean you shouldn't buy a 2013 LS600hL and throw low end knock off wheels, tires (don't get me started on cheap tires,, you mean your gonna pay 6k for wheels but your gonna wrap them in $65 plastic tires made in china¿), and cheap suspension parts...  its all gotta balance out in the end.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned that a few of these high dollar VIP coilovers are actually same brand southeast asian parts re-branded as premium VIP.

[QUOTE=speedaddict;486861]I'm surprised nobody mentioned that a few of these high dollar VIP coilovers are actually same brand southeast asian parts re-branded as premium VIP.[/QUOTE]

it is top sercet thats why lol

[QUOTE=speedaddict;486861]I'm surprised nobody mentioned that a few of these high dollar VIP coilovers are actually same brand southeast asian parts re-branded as premium VIP.[/QUOTE]

Like which?

[QUOTE=speedaddict;486861]I'm surprised nobody mentioned that a few of these high dollar VIP coilovers are actually same brand southeast asian parts re-branded as premium VIP.[/QUOTE]

i think because most of us here are seasoned enough to know that they are the same. 

pretty sure Thomas is referring to the JP boutique coils which are rebranded taiwan made coils. (and a few others like that)

[QUOTE=speedaddict;486861]I'm surprised nobody mentioned that a few of these high dollar VIP coilovers are actually same brand southeast asian parts re-branded as premium VIP.[/QUOTE]

i don't think the vip branded coilovers are really relevant to the discussion, because they are probably midgrade (or worse) performance wise. i'm not even sure which ones are rebadges.

Sojah lightly touched on it, and I want to bring it back into focus because I am very curious as to opinions because I will be installing air on my 2GS within the next weeks...

That being said... Would you consider Ksport coilover/bag struts matched with accuair e-level management a low, mid, or good grade of air setup. I doubt it can be considered "high grade" and I have no illusions of that. But in all my research I have had the most people come back with positive feedback on this setup for a $5k price tag. 

When Sojah stated that "high level" bag setups reach up to $8k I was a little suprised. In all my research for the 2GS I found no systems for the 2GS that reached this price tag. Not to say it wasnt my ignorance or lack of searching as the culprit. 

I guess my question boils down to, did I make the right choice in air setups that could be daily driven with relative ease, comfort, and reliability.

Thanks for the input! And I love this thread right now! :biggthumpup: Super educational for some of us start up people!

[QUOTE=AtlVIPStyle;486901]
When Sojah stated that "high level" bag setups reach up to $8k I was a little suprised. In all my research for the 2GS I found no systems for the 2GS that reached this price tag. Not to say it wasnt my ignorance or lack of searching as the culprit. 
[/QUOTE]

iirc roberuta cups run over 5k for cups, and throw in a high end coilover and you're looking at that high range.

JP coilovers are from Megan. JP BBK is Rotora. You're paying way more for the same thing. At least Mode Parfume BBK is by Endless and their suspension is by Bold World.

[QUOTE=AtlVIPStyle;486901]Sojah lightly touched on it, and I want to bring it back into focus because I am very curious as to opinions because I will be installing air on my 2GS within the next weeks...

That being said... Would you consider Ksport coilover/bag struts matched with accuair e-level management a low, mid, or good grade of air setup. I doubt it can be considered "high grade" and I have no illusions of that. But in all my research I have had the most people come back with positive feedback on this setup for a $5k price tag. 

When Sojah stated that "high level" bag setups reach up to $8k I was a little suprised. In all my research for the 2GS I found no systems for the 2GS that reached this price tag. Not to say it wasnt my ignorance or lack of searching as the culprit. 

I guess my question boils down to, did I make the right choice in air setups that could be daily driven with relative ease, comfort, and reliability.

Thanks for the input! And I love this thread right now! :biggthumpup: Super educational for some of us start up people![/QUOTE]
bold world, roberuta, t-demand, aragosta, mode parfume etc etc etc are all ridiculously expensive. these would be a few of the really high end suspension companies that havent been mentioned. my bold world set up retails for over 6k. generally you wont see these on the us market fs or mentioned more than a whisper by folks that really dont know any better.

[QUOTE=AtlVIPStyle;486901]Sojah lightly touched on it, and I want to bring it back into focus because I am very curious as to opinions because I will be installing air on my 2GS within the next weeks...

That being said... Would you consider Ksport coilover/bag struts matched with accuair e-level management a low, mid, or good grade of air setup. I doubt it can be considered "high grade" and I have no illusions of that. But in all my research I have had the most people come back with positive feedback on this setup for a $5k price tag. 

When Sojah stated that "high level" bag setups reach up to $8k I was a little suprised. In all my research for the 2GS I found no systems for the 2GS that reached this price tag. Not to say it wasnt my ignorance or lack of searching as the culprit. 

I guess my question boils down to, did I make the right choice in air setups that could be daily driven with relative ease, comfort, and reliability.

Thanks for the input! And I love this thread right now! :biggthumpup: Super educational for some of us start up people![/QUOTE]

roberuta/aragosta by bold world is $8k+. high end coilover + cups could hit that number. airrunner otg is $6k+.

air bags/sleeves are a sketchy subject imo. first step would be the quality of the dampers so that cancels out k-sport, d2, megan, etc. for me. obviously, as this thread proves, the dampers themselves are a topic of discussion. bags are pretty much the same accross the board other than type, although i have heard of some brands with high failure rates.

the second part of this equation is how do you match damping to a variable spring rate. the same setup has very different needs at 50 and 100psi. i think this is why airrunner made the tc-5 setup.

there's also fitment issues and necesarry mods to coilovers for the 2gs app, depending on what setup you choose.

for cups your limited to front only, modded coils, or bold world because of clearance issues.

[QUOTE=OG;486915]

the second part of this equation is how do you match damping to a variable spring rate. the same setup has very different needs at 50 and 100psi. i think this is why airrunner made the tc-5 setup.
[/QUOTE]

This has always been my issue. Valving dampers to match a spring with a continually changing "spring" rate is something that nobody really takes into account. There are a handful of guys that get custom valved coilovers to run with bags over top. I've heard of some guys running custom valved coilovers to run with aerosport bags, but is this even worth it knowing that the bags actually have no consistent spring rate?

Wow... so much to learn. I am looking up these companies and terms as I read... LOL. But its all for the good. I want to be an educated owner and do the right setup the first time. And not waste money rebuilding constantly.

[QUOTE=airmax;486914]bold world, roberuta, t-demand, aragosta, mode parfume etc etc etc are all ridiculously expensive. these would be a few of the really high end suspension companies that havent been mentioned. my bold world set up retails for over 6k. generally you wont see these on the us market fs or mentioned more than a whisper by folks that really dont know any better.[/QUOTE]

Aragosta stuff is super nice, I had a set on my 1st gen GS. JP's high end shocks are made by Quantum which is another super high end suspension company.

[QUOTE=4DGS;486923]This has always been my issue. Valving dampers to match a spring with a continually changing "spring" rate is something that nobody really takes into account. There are a handful of guys that get custom valved coilovers to run with bags over top. I've heard of some guys running custom valved coilovers to run with aerosport bags, but is this even worth it knowing that the bags actually have no consistent spring rate?[/QUOTE]

one of the many reasons i consider cups the superior pneumatic suspension.

[QUOTE=JZS_RCTS;486990]Aragosta stuff is super nice, I had a set on my 1st gen GS. JP's high end shocks are made by Quantum which is another super high end suspension company.[/QUOTE]

i had a friend that had a set on his prelude in like 2002, ive wanted a set since then. i wonder if i will ever actually get a set lol.

You guys think these companies just don't give a shit about marketing to North Americans or do you think they like the fact that they reserve the right of being baller "JDM" companies? They know their is a market over here but not many of them seem to care or make moves to sell into the country.

[QUOTE=4DGS;487133]You guys think these companies just don't give a shit about marketing to North Americans or do you think they like the fact that they reserve the right of being baller "JDM" companies? They know their is a market over here but not many of them seem to care or make moves to sell into the country.[/QUOTE]

Because it's not worth the risk of their product being copied and sold cheaper. That is what happens every time a Japanese company attempts what you just described. Look at HKS they said fuck it and pulled out of the US. Lots of companies do this, or don't even attempt it because it's not worth the bullshit. Also, I'm willing to bet even thought there is a huge size difference between Japan and North America the market in Japan is bigger than the US. 

People in the North America don't typically spend the kind of money that the Japanese do on modifying their cars. We are cheap bastards to a fault.

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;487142]People in the North America don't typically spend the kind of money that the Japanese do on modifying their cars. We are cheap bastards to a fault.[/QUOTE]

Generally speaking I would tend to agree with you. But I do believe there a groups that have built themselves from the ground up that are changing this norm. I believe that within the last couple of years we have become so inundated with "what is true JDM" or "how to build it JDM", etc. etc. through social media outlets and the like that it has actually begun to change the culture for the better in many ways. I think more people are realizing to save for the better parts or wheels and support real companies.  Case and point, the explosion of the "Real vs. Fake wheels" craze and debate. 

Im not saying that this will change in JDM companies minds in offering products in the US. But I do believe that the State-side car culture is changing for the better.

PS: I have a feeling I am going to get blasted on this by someone hahahaha

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;487142]Because it's not worth the risk of their product being copied and sold cheaper. That is what happens every time a Japanese company attempts what you just described. Look at HKS they said fuck it and pulled out of the US. Lots of companies do this, or don't even attempt it because it's not worth the bullshit. Also, I'm willing to bet even thought there is a huge size difference between Japan and North America the market in Japan is bigger than the US. 

People in the North America don't typically spend the kind of money that the Japanese do on modifying their cars. We are cheap bastards to a fault.[/QUOTE]
i think its partly true, but i think the ppl that would buy those types of suspension will find out about them and buy them anyways.

i agree with nick. these parts are accesable by anyone who wants them bad enough. i could never see it being profitable enough to set up  a u.s. branch for distribution.

i mean, ppl complain about having to spend money on air and regular coils already. i cant imagine someone trying to spend 3600 on some tdemand coils or some aragosta units lol.

[QUOTE=OG;487149]i agree with nick. these parts are accesable by anyone who wants them bad enough. i could never see it being profitable enough to set up  a u.s. branch for distribution.[/QUOTE]


Yea, for sure. Lots of people have parts that arn't available in the US and there are some people who are willing to wait, save, and buy quality parts.. It's just sad when you compare the number of people in Japan VS North America and it's not profitable enough to have a US market lol. 

I hope the culture continues to progress but I have a feeling that far too many people would rather have instant gratification just putting some wheels and coilovers on and slapping a VIP label on it, than to actually modify the car in a way that actually resembles what VIP is. Hopefully I'm wrong.

when the hype dies down things will get better. right now u.s. vip is just an extension of the stance scene. luxury has been lost.

i've been saying it forever, but sooner oir later i will do what i can to offer some high end imported brands. it's just hard for me because i don't have any overseas connections.

[QUOTE=OG;487157]it's just hard for me because i don't have any overseas connections.[/QUOTE]

God isnt that the truth. In the current US scene, its either pay huge mark up on getting the rare pieces you want, or have the connections to find them for yourself. It's honestly getting ridiculous. A lot of peoples connections are drying up because importing most this stuff is getting close to impossible with how customs and the government is cracking down. 

Multiple big name engine, half cut, etc. importers here in ATL have had to close or change up their business market because they cant get anything through anymore.

[QUOTE=OG;487157]u.s. vip is just an extension of the stance scene. luxury has been lost.[/QUOTE]

lol isnt that the truth, every other vip 2gs has a tte lip on it. not saying its not a nice lip, i actually like it a lot, but its far from VIP. the scene is changing, some for the better some for the worse. true vip will always be a constant though.

[QUOTE=AtlVIPStyle;487158]God isnt that the truth. In the current US scene, its either pay huge mark up on getting the rare pieces you want, or have the connections to find them for yourself. It's honestly getting ridiculous. A lot of peoples connections are drying up because importing most this stuff is getting close to impossible with how customs and the government is cracking down. 

Multiple big name engine, half cut, etc. importers here in ATL have had to close or change up their business market because they cant get anything through anymore.[/QUOTE]


Most engine importers who are going out of business are dying off because their business model is antiquated. Customs has little to do with it. Most of these guys are not willing to provide the level of customer service that has become expected of importers. Sure, 10 years ago that business was booming and markup was unreal. However, times have changed and the dollar sucks especially compared to the Yen. Combine that with poor customer service and you're left with a dying business. 

But, these guys don't typically get anything of value when it comes to VIP anyway. 

It would be interesting to see a company open in the US, that sold used parts people actually want, instead of whatever the fucks available at the local Japanese junkyards. I can't say if it would fail or do well, but it would be interesting none the less.

I doubt the profitability would be there especially considering inventory costs and standard overhead. 

At least we are getting nicer used wheels these days lol.

wonder if i could be of any assistance,, ;)

true vip is pretty rare on this little island i'm on too compared to mainland japan.  i have noticed that in the used car market down here on okinawa which is bigger than any other used car market i've ever seen (most people don't buy new on okinawa and they treat their cars like ass then sell them for even less next time) that seriously like 30-35% of the cars sold here are already modded in some form or fashion.  i can point out like 10 dealerships that only sell modded cars, but there are some that try to sell stock ones too however the wheels are almost always non-stock.  the most common parts to see on used cars here being sold at the used car dealerships in the order that i see them being most popular are aftermarket cd/players & DVD players, wheels, exhausts, tint, body kits/lip kits, and different color lights.

my thinking for originally starting to mod cars stateside was that i wanted my car to have something that the identical stock one next to it didn't have or to stand out.  well if you apply this same thinking to the japanese market it would be much harder to achieve since the average car already has aftermarket wheels and exhaust and prolly a lip kit.  unfortunately i've noticed that the people who buy these cars have no idea of the effort or money that went into these parts originally and have no respect for other modded cars.  we have semi vip used car lots and every time i pull up next to or pass by one of these car just paying attention to the driver i can usually tell if they bought it like that or made it like that themselves...  kinda ruins the fun for me a lot of times cuz these peoples don't care about the vip style out here to the non hardcore vip heads its just like a corolla or civic with rims and a wa wa pipe out the back that you would find stateside.  

most don't even know what the term VIP even is.  the vip car mags hardly sell out here on okinawa either.  but i think money can explain this.  okinawa has continually ranked lowest in average income in japan for the last few years in a row...  and when i mean lowest it was by far the lowest so i wouldn't expect say a small town in alabama or mississippi to have a large vip scene with quality vehicles/parts,, no offense, but i did live in both of these places in small towns in the past so i can speak with personal experience.  now compare tokyo, osaka, yokohama salaries and these are up there if not way past those of NYC salaries and the like.  cars are a necessity on okinawa and they are a luxury item in major cities in mainland japan, huge difference i suppose.

[QUOTE=AtlVIPStyle;487158]In the current US scene, its either pay huge mark up on getting the rare pieces you want, or have the connections to find them for yourself.[/QUOTE]

i don't think mark ups are the issue. the issues are the low standard on the cosumer side and ethics on the business side.

for example. bc type br coilovers have an msrp (manufacturer's suggested retail price) set at $1225, map (minimum authorized price) is $1k. even then you have enough companies selling under that that you'll still lose sales, because they don't have to do anything but take your money (after you spend 3-4 days going back and forth with someone like me for spec recommendations and then go looking for the best price) and send your order in. at the deepest discount level, selling at map, you're making well under 20% by the time fees are taken out. so now the consumer thinks that the value of a good set of coilovers sub $1k.

take into account that this happens all over the world. we have decent access to some mid-grade japanese coilovers but the msrp, let's say 2-3k, that an aurthorized stateside dealer may sell at is considerably higher than the <$2k that a japanese box pusher lists them for on yaj for. all of a sudden the authorized u.s. dealer looks like he's taxing a grip, but honestly we strive for 20% and come up short more often than not.

then you have the true high end stuff, but most customer would never even consider $5k+ when you can get something "good enough" for <$1k.

the same goes for kits, wheels, etc. but this is my example. so many people are supporting the cheap route, and the justification is it's their car and they can do what they want, but 1) this is vip... you're supposed to spend a lot of money and good some crazy high end exclusive shit and 2) every enthusiast that takes the cheap route is money out of the pockets of the high grade companies. they won't be around forever if we don't support them.

First off... I LOVE THIS THREAD. haha... I know I said it before but I have tripled my knowledge in this thread alone! OG, Sojah, Airmax, Jzz30tt, Yall are awesome! Keep the knowledge coming!

@ jzz30TT : I would love to see a company like that come about that could help support and supply real quality parts.

@ Airmax : Admittedly I am guilty of the TTE lip, haha. But in defense it is the only lip that looks good "stand alone" if you do not yet have the ability for a full quality kit.

@ OG : Between this thread and your vender thread it has really convinced me to look into Battle Version suspension components for my 2GS. As previously stated I will be bagging my GS soon and am in the market for good quality suspension supporting components. If you could offer me some advice as to which components you think I would need as well as their availability I would much appreciate it.

Also, bringing back a the bagged suspension convo a couple posts earlier... Honestly I do not know what "cups" means. Is this the UAS style of bag over strut verses the Ksport coilover style? Or am I way off. Thanks for the help!

air cups instead of air bags.  i have the Phantom air cup kit on my crown and i love it.  most argue what is better and what isn't but i believe you can retain that coilover feel but still have the ability to raise the car up 3" when needed.  also this past weekend i drove a lot on it aired up halfway and it was supprisingly smooth, but fully aired up is not smooth.

you basically set the coilover as low as you can possibly drive on it and then have the ability to raise it (3" lift with the kit i have) if needed.

air cup kits are usually cheaper than full blow air bag kits.  mines was $2500 + you need coilovers if you don't already have them.

i've heard that you can put an air bag kit together and have it feel just as good to drive on, harsh or smooth, whatever you desirer, but to me and my present allowable budget plus laziness, the phantom kit was easy and rides like my coilovers.

however i can't pull up and drop my car to the frame like those on air bags can.

My G50 is getting cups... bags being taken off, and cups going on here shortly. 

The cup goes in between the coilover spring and the upper mount. This allows the shock to preform just like a standard coilover when deflated, then when it's aired up you'll only get about 1-2" max of lift, however your spring rate also goes through the roof, I wouldn't recommend driving with it aired up for a long period of time.

[URL="http://originalgarage.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/img_1626.jpg"][IMG]http://originalgarage.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/img_1626.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

here's a visual.

the only way to get 4 wheel cups on a 2gs is to buy bold world or modify the coilover/rear shock towers for clearance. in their original application (supercars) it is common to run front only, but that doesn't seem to fly with the vip guys.

as far as airbags for the 2gs airrunner is the only proven solution imo, and otg is a must. a lot of guys run uas but even with all the right parts there can be clearance issues.

the other stuff i don't have any/enough experience with to cosign it.

then there's always static...

Uas on coil over for the 2gs rides smooth, but like OG said there is still rubbing issues with the aero sport bag. The short bags provide better clearance, but of course lift won't be as high (about 1.5" difference).

Cup kits r good for riding low, bags good for clearance and parking dumped.  both with its pros n cons

OK I understand now. I actually know about "cups" then, just never really know the name I guess. 

OG, are you still selling Battle Version suspension components for the 2GS? I saw on your vendor thread you were out of stock. But I am looking to pick up quality alternatives to Megan Racing's products.

 Any suggestions as to the suspension aid parts I would need for a bagged GS would also help. This question is open to anyone. Need some experienced help.

[QUOTE=Redline26;487224]Cup kits r good for riding low, bags good for clearance and parking dumped.  both with its pros n cons[/QUOTE]

realistically, i car with bags set up to drive low (high psi, low ride height)and a cup setup will have about the same clearance.

[QUOTE=AtlVIPStyle;487225]OG, are you still selling Battle Version suspension components for the 2GS? I saw on your vendor thread you were out of stock. But I am looking to pick up quality alternatives to Megan Racing's products.[/QUOTE]

i am selling the bv parts. the only part, afaik, that is out of stock is the ruca but toe/traction/rlca is a solid setup with all the adjustability you need out back.

i have all 4 cups but i do believe the travel on the phantom cup kit is 3",, i had no idea that other setups didn't go to at least 3".  i try to ride as low as possible and have often times needed at least 2-2.5 of the 3 i gots.  phantom claims that you can drive on their cup kit whilst aired for extended periods with no known issues, but other than about halfway (1.5") aired i haven't tried for more than a hundred yards and wouldn't want to either, on account of the high spring rate when aired past half.

i'm really debating going about another 3/4" lower so i can sit right at the wheel lip and have no visible tire above when driving (right now i have about 1/2" tire showing in the rear and about 1" in the front on my normal DD while parked but it always goes a little lower when driving cuz of the weight i guess).  but i'm not sure if this is a good idea cuz then if i have 4 people in the car i will be forced to ride with it even more aired up and presently it is perfect with people in the car since about 1" up sits and feels great.  such tough decisions in life  ;)

bags get more travel, but that's from 0psi. i set up ride around 100psi so from ride height to max psi is only a couple inches.

i just want to ride low and park lower - cant seem to get that from a cup suspension unless you are able to ride with the cups inflated which most seem to advertise but not really.  Quality is all relative to your point of reference.  Your not going to notice a difference until you experience a difference 1st hand.  

JIC's (ASS)
Insurance (DID the JOB) my only reference
BC's (TBD)

I dont care for comfort - I just know what I want from them - ride low - park lower - i'll be happy with that.  I wish I had the same availability of parts in comparison to all these new dudes coming into the scene now but most importantly the knowledge and tech spec behind those parts.  Its easy to observe the scene in its present state 2013 but a lot of these conversions or swapped suspension were trial and error; 1st time builds. I've been lurking since 2005 - OG joined in 2007 - JZS 2009.  Back then we were more concerned with getting shit to work.  Everything was hearsay - "I heard you you can swap s14 rear arms on a Y33"  and then on another thread you would hear "that you could do s14 arms all around" and r32 brake swaps and then STI swaps and so on, its still happening among Y33 guys with the battle version lower control arm mod and engine spacers  - all hearsay until people started to actually do them - quality was not a factor - getting it to work was! 

thats my alibi

[QUOTE=33flavors;487234]i just want to ride low and park lower - cant seem to get that from a cup suspension unless you are able to ride with the cups inflated which most seem to advertise but not really.  Quality is all relative to your point of reference.  Your not going to notice a difference until you experience a difference 1st hand.  

JIC's (ASS)
Insurance (DID the JOB) my only reference
BC's (TBD)

I dont care for comfort - I just know what I want from them - ride low - park lower - i'll be happy with that.  I wish I had the same availability of parts in comparison to all these new dudes coming into the scene now but most importantly the knowledge and tech spec behind those parts.  Its easy to observe the scene in its present state 2013 but a lot of these conversions or swapped suspension were trial and error; 1st time builds. I've been lurking since 2005 - OG joined in 2007 - JZS 2009.  Back then we were more concerned with getting shit to work.  Everything was hearsay - "I heard you you can swap s14 rear arms on a Y33"  and then on another thread you would hear "that you could do s14 arms all around" and r32 brake swaps and then STI swaps and so on, its still happening among Y33 guys with the battle version lower control arm mod and engine spacers  - all hearsay until people started to actually do them - quality was not a factor - getting it to work was! 

thats my alibi[/QUOTE]

It's true it's all about what you want to do with the suspension. I personally want to ride as low as possible, or lower but still be able to get over a rock in the road if/when needed. To me parking and driving should be at the same level.. impossibly low. :-) 

Speaking of getting it to work, lemmegetdemupdates J haha

[QUOTE=33flavors;487234]i just want to ride low and park lower - cant seem to get that from a cup suspension unless you are able to ride with the cups inflated which most seem to advertise but not really.  Quality is all relative to your point of reference.  Your not going to notice a difference until you experience a difference 1st hand.  

JIC's (ASS)
Insurance (DID the JOB) my only reference
BC's (TBD)

I dont care for comfort - I just know what I want from them - ride low - park lower - i'll be happy with that.  I wish I had the same availability of parts in comparison to all these new dudes coming into the scene now but most importantly the knowledge and tech spec behind those parts.  Its easy to observe the scene in its present state 2013 but a lot of these conversions or swapped suspension were trial and error; 1st time builds. I've been lurking since 2005 - OG joined in 2007 - JZS 2009.  Back then we were more concerned with getting shit to work.  Everything was hearsay - "I heard you you can swap s14 rear arms on a Y33"  and then on another thread you would hear "that you could do s14 arms all around" and r32 brake swaps and then STI swaps and so on, its still happening among Y33 guys with the battle version lower control arm mod and engine spacers  - all hearsay until people started to actually do them - quality was not a factor - getting it to work was! 

thats my alibi[/QUOTE]

it's definitely a lot easier now, but there's a downside. the dialog that we used to exchange as a community is all but gone. we were motivated to go harder after a debate. we learned things the hard way because there weren't any shortcuts. some cats jumped in head first and quality may have suffered but, like j said, at the time it was innovative. now, those moves are imitated instead of elevated. now everything is laid out when you walk in the door. cop a platform, get some custom spec bc coilovers, uas/accuair if you're "ballin'", some megan arms cause you want to "do it the right way",  a used set of "vip" wheels in the next more ridiculous size than the last guy, make it fit, get a couple accesories to make it your own, and wait for someone to pawn off any kit that happens to fit your car to make it "complete". the standard has been lowered. what used to be cut and sew is off the rack. what used to be keep us up at night is now embeded in the vip dna and executed subconsiously. i'm glad i got in when i did.

i agree with all of yall, its alot easier now but only because "we" did it a few years ago for everyone to know what works. ive been in this scene for a while. Bought and sold parts and wheels and discovered that I will never have a true vip car, not because i dont want one, but because my definition of a true vip car exceeds anything i can afford to spend on a build that wont take more than a couple years. some of my fav builds on this forum are basic builds because what they have is proper and at least done the right way. the other few builds i really like are all out and took at least 2-5 years to get to a "finished" state. i may or may not have a build thread in a few months, just kinda depends where i see my car going after its out of paint. hopefully i fit in with the builds that have taught me what i know.

i'm all about research before i pull the trigger, but according to the 'theme' above, this does not seem to be 'cool' or OG (no pun intended) as it were...  i don't have a shop backing me or the tools at my house so when i do something i need to know that it will fit or fit with slight modifications, and to me the only way i know is to do research and find threads/diy's where this has already been completed.  i mean i add my own style of whatever but i read up on what others have done first...  i'm all about originality but most of the shops i've been to don't like doing super custom stuff and stick to the easy shiz or persuade you towards something easy..  so when i drop off parts at a shop i need to be able to explain that this works just do it...

and just because you may have made something fit or custom fabricated it, doesn't mean it hasn't been done 30 times already; just becuase you haven't seen it blasted up on message boards doesn't mean its original.  not trying to start an argument but i seriously doubt the originality of a lot of the 'old heads' in the game.  there are some builds that are original and these are less than 0.25% in my opinion.  i have been on CL actively parusing the GS side for say a good 3 years (5+ years ago) and the LS430 side for another 3-4 years (ended last year) and really only saw like 5 or 6 cars in total that were truely original, and even some of these took design queues from other styles of car or other original builds...

someone on VSC always says it but there is nothing new under the sun.  unless you are Wald, JP, K-break etc and are the first ones to get a new platform and design the kit on the computer from scratch or with clay like one SC dude did that i read about, your just biting the style of anothers.  

i would like to start a thread of originality, ideas and pics where folks can write or post up pics of truely original mods or complete builds.  i can only think of 2 or 3 off the top of my head right now.  gato's LS, this dude name soloi think with a white UCF30 from CL, not sure if he is on VSC.  this one 2gs carbongs or something like that, and this one SC430 i saw on VSC a few months back that was super ballerific with a one off kit and extra wide fenders/wheels.  i want to say Y33-flavors but in mainland japan even his super rare car isn't that rare...  just pointing out that what we think is rare really isn't that rare.  even that dude with the silver Q on this site that just went for sale, sorry to say that there are a bunch out here similar.

[QUOTE=OG;487241]it's definitely a lot easier now, but there's a downside. the dialog that we used to exchange as a community is all but gone. we were motivated to go harder after a debate. we learned things the hard way because there weren't any shortcuts. some cats jumped in head first and quality may have suffered but, like j said, at the time it was innovative. now, those moves are imitated instead of elevated. now everything is laid out when you walk in the door. cop a platform, get some custom spec bc coilovers, uas/accuair if you're "ballin'", some megan arms cause you want to "do it the right way",  a used set of "vip" wheels in the next more ridiculous size than the last guy, make it fit, get a couple accesories to make it your own, and wait for someone to pawn off any kit that happens to fit your car to make it "complete". the standard has been lowered. what used to be cut and sew is off the rack. what used to be keep us up at night is now embeded in the vip dna and executed subconsiously. i'm glad i got in when i did.[/QUOTE]

This is epic right here. I admittedly have not been in the VIP world for long. But have been in the real track racing and modified car world for a LONG time. And I can say that this EXACT quote applies to all things in the modified automotive world right now. Our mistakes and sometimes miraculous discoveries at 3am in the morning, in the garage, 2 cigarette packs down, and 3 cases of beer later with friends have allowed the new up and comers to have a lot easier path then we did when we were creating this culture.

Just my 2 cents.

bunch of old men in here. i'm leaving before i get more grey hairs. :innoutrofl2:

I KID I KID. at the end of the day... all it really comes down to is going out to your driveway/garage/storage container/street and looking at your car and enjoying it. as far as the labels, it's all whatever. some people are innovators, some aren't. :shrug:



that being said, there are some cheap fuckers in the world that will rock knock offs on anything, and those kind of people need to be slapped. :smiley-rofl:

[QUOTE=sojah;487252]i'm all about research before i pull the trigger, but according to the 'theme' above, this does not seem to be 'cool' or OG (no pun intended) as it were...  i don't have a shop backing me or the tools at my house so when i do something i need to know that it will fit or fit with slight modifications, and to me the only way i know is to do research and find threads/diy's where this has already been completed.  i mean i add my own style of whatever but i read up on what others have done first...  i'm all about originality but most of the shops i've been to don't like doing super custom stuff and stick to the easy shiz or persuade you towards something easy..  so when i drop off parts at a shop i need to be able to explain that this works just do it...

and just because you may have made something fit or custom fabricated it, doesn't mean it hasn't been done 30 times already; just becuase you haven't seen it blasted up on message boards doesn't mean its original.  not trying to start an argument but i seriously doubt the originality of a lot of the 'old heads' in the game.  there are some builds that are original and these are less than 0.25% in my opinion.  i have been on CL actively parusing the GS side for say a good 3 years (5+ years ago) and the LS430 side for another 3-4 years (ended last year) and really only saw like 5 or 6 cars in total that were truely original, and even some of these took design queues from other styles of car or other original builds...

someone on VSC always says it but there is nothing new under the sun.  unless you are Wald, JP, K-break etc and are the first ones to get a new platform and design the kit on the computer from scratch or with clay like one SC dude did that i read about, your just biting the style of anothers.  

i would like to start a thread of originality, ideas and pics where folks can write or post up pics of truely original mods or complete builds.  i can only think of 2 or 3 off the top of my head right now.  gato's LS, this dude name soloi think with a white UCF30 from CL, not sure if he is on VSC.  this one 2gs carbongs or something like that, and this one SC430 i saw on VSC a few months back that was super ballerific with a one off kit and extra wide fenders/wheels.  i want to say Y33-flavors but in mainland japan even his super rare car isn't that rare...  just pointing out that what we think is rare really isn't that rare.  even that dude with the silver Q on this site that just went for sale, sorry to say that there are a bunch out here similar.[/QUOTE]

U get discredited just cause you mentioned CL - lol.

[QUOTE=sojah;487252]i'm all about research before i pull the trigger, but according to the 'theme' above, this does not seem to be 'cool' or OG (no pun intended) as it were...  i don't have a shop backing me or the tools at my house so when i do something i need to know that it will fit or fit with slight modifications, and to me the only way i know is to do research and find threads/diy's where this has already been completed.  i mean i add my own style of whatever but i read up on what others have done first...  i'm all about originality but most of the shops i've been to don't like doing super custom stuff and stick to the easy shiz or persuade you towards something easy..  so when i drop off parts at a shop i need to be able to explain that this works just do it...

and just because you may have made something fit or custom fabricated it, doesn't mean it hasn't been done 30 times already; just becuase you haven't seen it blasted up on message boards doesn't mean its original.  not trying to start an argument but i seriously doubt the originality of a lot of the 'old heads' in the game.  there are some builds that are original and these are less than 0.25% in my opinion.  i have been on CL actively parusing the GS side for say a good 3 years (5+ years ago) and the LS430 side for another 3-4 years (ended last year) and really only saw like 5 or 6 cars in total that were truely original, and even some of these took design queues from other styles of car or other original builds...

someone on VSC always says it but there is nothing new under the sun.  unless you are Wald, JP, K-break etc and are the first ones to get a new platform and design the kit on the computer from scratch or with clay like one SC dude did that i read about, your just biting the style of anothers.  

i would like to start a thread of originality, ideas and pics where folks can write or post up pics of truely original mods or complete builds.  i can only think of 2 or 3 off the top of my head right now.  gato's LS, this dude name soloi think with a white UCF30 from CL, not sure if he is on VSC.  this one 2gs carbongs or something like that, and this one SC430 i saw on VSC a few months back that was super ballerific with a one off kit and extra wide fenders/wheels.  i want to say Y33-flavors but in mainland japan even his super rare car isn't that rare...  just pointing out that what we think is rare really isn't that rare.  even that dude with the silver Q on this site that just went for sale, sorry to say that there are a bunch out here similar.[/QUOTE]


+1 for mentioning CL... That's the biggest group of unoriginal sheep I've ever fucking seen. 

But honestly, originality in the US and in Japan are different, and you really can't compare the two. Japan will always be light years ahead of the US, because simply Japan has more people willing to go beyond slapping on wheels, coilovers, and a TTE front lip than the US has. 

I don't think anyone is claiming to be innovators in the VIP world here, however I was there 8/9 years ago, my first G50 had -7 up front/-10 camber out back 8 years ago on VS-KF's to boot! Was this something new? No, not at all. However everyone who saw the car pictures or in person thought it was the stupidest thing they have ever seen. Now, those same people have -12 out back.. hahaha 

Yes, i did have to cut and reweld the ruca to achieve this... nothing new in general but new in the US? Absolutely! Following Japan doesn't make anything original persay but until I see 20 of J's cars drive by me on the way to work, I'd say he is an innovator in the sense that very few in the US have the balls to build a similar style.

Body mods can be very original, and I'd would say just because you might see cars similar to J's in Japan, they arn't the same. The last iteration of his car rivaled plenty of cars in Japan. Still waiting on those updates :-)

[QUOTE=airmax;487243]discovered that I will never have a true vip car, not because i dont want one, but because my definition of a true vip car exceeds anything i can afford to spend on a build that wont take more than a couple years. [/QUOTE]

That takes guts to admit, and I wish more people had this attitude. But most get offended if you criticize what they consider vip... 

I have felt the same way truth be told, will my G50 ever make it to be a true vip car? I doubt it... I still have fun trying though..

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;487286]That takes guts to admit, and I wish more people had this attitude. But most get offended if you criticize what they consider vip... 

I will also agree with this statement and could not have said it any better, i love the true VIP cars, although i have a platform, i honestly rather just do what i like as i can versus trying to be "true" (if that makes sense)

But i will tell you that this style of modding is my favorite now that im older and you guys here on VSC make it even better, i have only met two folks on here, waijai and flush y33, but feel like i know most of you.

[QUOTE=sojah;487252]i'm all about research before i pull the trigger, but according to the 'theme' above, this does not seem to be 'cool' or OG (no pun intended) as it were...  i don't have a shop backing me or the tools at my house so when i do something i need to know that it will fit or fit with slight modifications, and to me the only way i know is to do research and find threads/diy's where this has already been completed.  i mean i add my own style of whatever but i read up on what others have done first...  i'm all about originality but most of the shops i've been to don't like doing super custom stuff and stick to the easy shiz or persuade you towards something easy..  so when i drop off parts at a shop i need to be able to explain that this works just do it...

and just because you may have made something fit or custom fabricated it, doesn't mean it hasn't been done 30 times already; just becuase you haven't seen it blasted up on message boards doesn't mean its original.  not trying to start an argument but i seriously doubt the originality of a lot of the 'old heads' in the game.  there are some builds that are original and these are less than 0.25% in my opinion.  i have been on CL actively parusing the GS side for say a good 3 years (5+ years ago) and the LS430 side for another 3-4 years (ended last year) and really only saw like 5 or 6 cars in total that were truely original, and even some of these took design queues from other styles of car or other original builds...

someone on VSC always says it but there is nothing new under the sun.  unless you are Wald, JP, K-break etc and are the first ones to get a new platform and design the kit on the computer from scratch or with clay like one SC dude did that i read about, your just biting the style of anothers.  

i would like to start a thread of originality, ideas and pics where folks can write or post up pics of truely original mods or complete builds.  i can only think of 2 or 3 off the top of my head right now.  gato's LS, this dude name soloi think with a white UCF30 from CL, not sure if he is on VSC.  this one 2gs carbongs or something like that, and this one SC430 i saw on VSC a few months back that was super ballerific with a one off kit and extra wide fenders/wheels.  i want to say Y33-flavors but in mainland japan even his super rare car isn't that rare...  just pointing out that what we think is rare really isn't that rare.  even that dude with the silver Q on this site that just went for sale, sorry to say that there are a bunch out here similar.[/QUOTE]

you missed my point. once i figure out how to say it i'll explain.

Lovin' this thread. Lots of good conversation. :biggthumpup:

i figured as much, but after leaving japan in 04 this is the only site i found while living in CO that had anything vip at all related to it.  not sure why i didn't even find out about VSC until around 08 cuz it would have helped me out a lot.  i can recall asking no short of 50 questions that were vip related and not ever getting answers or getting stupid rookie answers that were not even helpful.

so what other sites are there out there that are of this nature or is this pretty much the Mutha Load?   =)

i was thinking this as well,, i think i get the message, but just got hung up on the fact that if you don't freestyle it then its not vip...  i just get defensive cuz i don't have a garage or a shop that i'm close enough with that will just let me work on my car or to work on my car with me, without charging me by the hour and being well basically a 'customer' and not a 'friend'...  therefore i don't have this luxury and depend on the hard work and sweat of others to figure out whats do-able and what fits already.

i respect the old guard, but now its a different time.  plus being an IT guy by profession all i do is read internet blogs about what others have posted.

[QUOTE=sojah;487307]i figured as much, but after leaving japan in 04 this is the only site i found while living in CO that had anything vip at all related to it.  not sure why i didn't even find out about VSC until around 08 cuz it would have helped me out a lot.  i can recall asking no short of 50 questions that were vip related and not ever getting answers or getting stupid rookie answers that were not even helpful.

so what other sites are there out there that are of this nature or is this pretty much the Mutha Load?   =)[/QUOTE]


There have been attempts at others, but this is the mainstay. I do find it odd that this forum isn't more active, as many people as i hear claim to want/have a "vip" car... lol

i used to go to a few big meets a year and a few small local meets a year with the NELOC crew that i met through CL.  the majority of them had IS's and claimed to be VIP and this really botherd me to my core,, and not the new IS's that i have seen pull off VIP in a very nice way.  i used to get into many an argument and i'm sure i made more enemies than friends who owned the old IS...  i have nothing against the old IS, it is a good car and can be built to do a lot of things, but don't put some big oversized rims on it and, attempt to lower it an inch and call it VIP,,, cuz its not...

yeah i've talked to waijai through forums for years and he does seem like a cool dude, in fact a lot of you texas guys do, wish we were all local  ;)  (i lived in san antonio from like 91-93), got some family from TX as well.

i keep hearing that VSC isn't that active, seems alright to me, but i'm a late joiner to the party i suppose.  guess it was more active back in the day?  since i'm late to the party think i'll just look around for some drunk chicks to take home...

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;487309]There have been attempts at others, but this is the mainstay. I do find it odd that this forum isn't more active, as many people as i hear claim to want/have a "vip" car... lol[/QUOTE]

its because most people want cheap and instant gratification. i think people get legitimately upset when they find out they can't replicate the style within a few months for pennies on the dollar and leave. half of the noob threads are HEY CAN I VIP MY CIVIC, PEEP MY VIP CIVIC, FORD FOCUS...VIP? and then when most of the members tell them it's not even remotely the style just because they're low and have wheels, they get upset and write off the forum as a whole. most people just view the style as a couple pillows, curtains, a fusa, and don't really understand what it actually is.

so my complaint with the stateside vip scene is where the hell did all the fusa & tsuna things even come from?  they were never ever even seen in japan until after they were super huge in the states and then you could see maybe 1 or 2 vip cars in japan with them but they are still a joke out here.  if you ask someone in the states they always say they got it from japan,, but who, where, when,, they are not here.  JP makes them and prolly sells like 97% of them to the states  ;)     

and i know i'm point the finger prolly at half the folks on this site since half of you prolly have them in your cars right this moment  ;)    wow this always just makes me laugh,, in a benny hanna sort of way if you catch my drift...  but seriously though, how did hanging a big giant knotted rope or super silly tassley looking thing become associated with the vip car style???????????????????  btw they are a budhist thing and basically its the same as rocking a rosary, cross, or any other sort of religious medallion in your car.

pillows are another silly item to me and rarely seen out here, but a lot of people rock curtains.  i have thought about it but what if you want to drive with your windows down, does it try to suck them out the window?


i have always had a japanese juzo shinto/buddhist good luck bracelet wrapped around my rear view mirror that was blessed at a shrine and is supposed to protect my me and my car from accidents and i've even seen a couple of these bracelets with the tassles in a car or two, but not a tsuna or fusa  ;)

[ATTACH]4056[/ATTACH]

[QUOTE=brainneeded;487312]its because most people want cheap and instant gratification. i think people get legitimately upset when they find out they can't replicate the style within a few months for pennies on the dollar and leave. half of the noob threads are HEY CAN I VIP MY CIVIC, PEEP MY VIP CIVIC, FORD FOCUS...VIP? and then when most of the members tell them it's not even remotely the style just because they're low and have wheels, they get upset and write off the forum as a whole. most people just view the style as a couple pillows, curtains, a fusa, and don't really understand what it actually is.[/QUOTE]



Here is something I have wondered for quite awhile. 

Every time I peek though VIP STYLE I see boat loads of diverse cars, and owners. However, I notice many of them are in their early to mid 20's. I kind of expect that to some degree but something I can't wrap my head around is how these kids afford to spend $20-30k in mods on a $20k car. Now, buying the car isn't a problem obviously you can get credit for a car easy since the car is collateral. Where does the other $20+k come from?? lol I mean are they swimming in credit card debt or are car loans done differently in Japan? I'd like to know just because I've always wondered. I personally don't have any debt except for my house, and I don't plan on acquiring any, but I do see the benefit of just getting a loan up front and finishing the car because then you can enjoy it for the next 5+ years instead of building it.. haha  

Any insight here?

[QUOTE=sojah;487311]i used to go to a few big meets a year and a few small local meets a year with the NELOC crew that i met through CL.  the majority of them had IS's and claimed to be VIP and this really botherd me to my core,, and not the new IS's that i have seen pull off VIP in a very nice way.  i used to get into many an argument and i'm sure i made more enemies than friends who owned the old IS...  i have nothing against the old IS, it is a good car and can be built to do a lot of things, but don't put some big oversized rims on it and, attempt to lower it an inch and call it VIP,,, cuz its not...

yeah i've talked to waijai through forums for years and he does seem like a cool dude, in fact a lot of you texas guys do, wish we were all local  ;)  (i lived in san antonio from like 91-93), got some family from TX as well.

i keep hearing that VSC isn't that active, seems alright to me, but i'm a late joiner to the party i suppose.  guess it was more active back in the day?  since i'm late to the party think i'll just look around for some drunk chicks to take home...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=sojah;487313]so my complaint with the stateside vip scene is where the hell did all the fusa & tsuna things even come from?  they were never ever even seen in japan until after they were super huge in the states and then you could see maybe 1 or 2 vip cars in japan with them but they are still a joke out here.  if you ask someone in the states they always say they got it from japan,, but who, where, when,, they are not here.  JP makes them and prolly sells like 97% of them to the states  ;)     

and i know i'm point the finger prolly at half the folks on this site since half of you prolly have them in your cars right this moment  ;)    wow this always just makes me laugh,, in a benny hanna sort of way if you catch my drift...  but seriously though, how did hanging a big giant knotted rope or super silly tassley looking thing become associated with the vip car style???????????????????  btw they are a budhist thing and basically its the same as rocking a rosary, cross, or any other sort of religious medallion in your car.

pillows are another silly item to me and rarely seen out here, but a lot of people rock curtains.  i have thought about it but what if you want to drive with your windows down, does it try to suck them out the window?


i have always had a japanese juzo shinto/buddhist good luck bracelet wrapped around my rear view mirror that was blessed at a shrine and is supposed to protect my me and my car from accidents and i've even seen a couple of these bracelets with the tassles in a car or two, but not a tsuna or fusa  ;)

[ATTACH]4056[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]


I dig both posts... all of the stupid ass accessories are annoying as shit.. I mean, I understand it on a finished car. BUT IT'S NOT WHAT YOU START WITH PEOPLE!!

An epic thread started by just asking about rims, good job Brandon!!!!

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;487317]Here is something I have wondered for quite awhile. 

Every time I peek though VIP STYLE I see boat loads of diverse cars, and owners. However, I notice many of them are in their early to mid 20's. I kind of expect that to some degree but something I can't wrap my head around is how these kids afford to spend $20-30k in mods on a $20k car. Now, buying the car isn't a problem obviously you can get credit for a car easy since the car is collateral. Where does the other $20+k come from?? lol I mean are they swimming in credit card debt or are car loans done differently in Japan? I'd like to know just because I've always wondered. I personally don't have any debt except for my house, and I don't plan on acquiring any, but I do see the benefit of just getting a loan up front and finishing the car because then you can enjoy it for the next 5+ years instead of building it.. haha  

Any insight here?[/QUOTE]

i've seen some dope ass cars in front of some ghetto ass houses. guessing they live cheap, spend all their money on their cars. i'd rather have a nice house with a hoopty ass car than live in the hood with a dope ass car, but thats just me. also some guys have their parents buy their cars i.e. first car, finishing hs, whatever and they sink their own money into it.

one dude i know, his mom was actually the one who pieced together his dc2 jdm front. :smiley-rofl: that's a dope ass mom though haha.

this one i can actually answer...  obviously every situation is different but i asked this very question to a bunch of japanese people and found a reoccuring answer that kept poping up...  believe me i am very curious and as my wife says that i'm the CEO of the jealous club so put those two together and i always have to find out for my own piece of mind how peopel get their money/toys.

so yeah some cars are gifts from parents, most prolly not though.

japanese people get two bonus's a year from their companies (summer and winter), these bonus's are like a months pay and in some cases 2 months pay...  just as a bonus twice a year imagine getting a fat check that is equal to say 1 months pay...  what would you do with an extra 2-6 k?  well car guys/gals go buy a body kit, or rims, or turbo, etc...  my wife said she and her single friends would always go on one or two week long lavish vacations to some foreign island/country or take a reasonable vacation and buy a handbag or a new $$ outfit...  this is why you can always see young japanese girls walking down the street holding a 2k handbag when they don't look like they should be holding a 2k handbag.  well this or they are snack girls, or have rich ass parents...  all three are definite possibilities.

[QUOTE=sojah;487321]so yeah some cars are gifts from parents, most prolly not though.[/QUOTE]

i was referring to here stateside. i have no experience w/ japan.

[QUOTE=brainneeded;487320]
one dude i know, his mom was actually the one who pieced together his dc2 jdm front. :smiley-rofl: that's a dope ass mom though haha.[/QUOTE]

I disagree.. This just creates absolutely no pride in ownership, and a kid that has no sense for the value of a dollar and what it takes/feels like to earn something yourself. Don't get me wrong I don't blame or fault the kid, because your damn right I would take it too in his position. I fault the parent.

[QUOTE=sojah;487321]this one i can actually answer...  obviously every situation is different but i asked this very question to a bunch of japanese people and found a reoccuring answer that kept poping up...  believe me i am very curious and as my wife says that i'm the CEO of the jealous club so put those two together and i always have to find out for my own piece of mind how peopel get their money/toys.

so yeah some cars are gifts from parents, most prolly not though.

japanese people get two bonus's a year from their companies (summer and winter), these bonus's are like a months pay and in some cases 2 months pay...  just as a bonus twice a year imagine getting a fat check that is equal to say 1 months pay...  what would you do with an extra 2-6 k?  well car guys/gals go buy a body kit, or rims, or turbo, etc...  my wife said she and her single friends would always go on one or two week long lavish vacations to some foreign island/country or take a reasonable vacation and buy a handbag or a new $$ outfit...  this is why you can always see young japanese girls walking down the street holding a 2k handbag when they don't look like they should be holding a 2k handbag.  well this or they are snack girls, or have rich ass parents...  all three are definite possibilities.[/QUOTE]


Interesting.. haha thanks for the insight :)

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;487324]I disagree.. This just creates absolutely no pride in ownership, and a kid that has no sense for the value of a dollar and what it takes/feels like to earn something yourself. Don't get me wrong I don't blame or fault the kid, because your damn right I would take it too in his position. I fault the parent.[/QUOTE]

i get what you're saying and i agree, but unfortunately i feel this makes up the bulk of the import community.

double post..woops

[QUOTE=brainneeded;487320]i've seen some dope ass cars in front of some ghetto ass houses. guessing they live cheap, spend all their money on their cars. i'd rather have a nice house with a hoopty ass car than live in the hood with a dope ass car, but thats just me. also some guys have their parents buy their cars i.e. first car, finishing hs, whatever and they sink their own money into it.

one dude i know, his mom was actually the one who pieced together his dc2 jdm front. :smiley-rofl: that's a dope ass mom though haha.[/QUOTE]

I would live w my parents to drive a F458...lol...and yeah milfy car sponsor is the shit haha

[QUOTE=jzz30tt;487309]I do find it odd that this forum isn't more active, as many people as i hear claim to want/have a "vip" car... lol[/QUOTE]

this is just my opinion and i have no facts to back this up. i think there are 3 kinds of posters, guys like me that come and go and have fun with the scene. 

then theres other ppl that feel that they have contributed so much to this forum and the members here and this scene that they are owed some type of recognition, i dont think there are many if any ppl that deserve that kind of recognition. those are the type of members that have been upset because they feel their cars and mods to be superior to just about everyone and think everyone else is a hater for disliking any part of their build. why give props to someone for something you dont like? you dont go to a crappy restaurant and give a great tip to a crappy waiter for crappy service and crappy food. iono maybe im not doing well explaining lol, or maybe i am. 

then i think its the guys looking for a quick dollar or quick fame or notoriety. as soon as they finish they car its on a few blogs and for sale much sooner than later. 

the guys that have originally built this scene to what it is are rarely here or left a long time ago.

so either you don't take it seriously or you're butt hurt?

d) none of the above

[QUOTE=airmax;487380]this is just my opinion and i have no facts to back this up. i think there are 3 kinds of posters, guys like me that come and go and have fun with the scene. 

then theres other ppl that feel that they have contributed so much to this forum and the members here and this scene that [B][SIZE=4]they are owed some type of recognition[/SIZE][/B], i dont think there are many if any ppl that deserve that kind of recognition. those are the type of members that have been upset because they feel their cars and mods to be superior to just about everyone and think everyone else is a hater for disliking any part of their build. why give props to someone for something you dont like? you dont go to a crappy restaurant and give a great tip to a crappy waiter for crappy service and crappy food. iono maybe im not doing well explaining lol, or maybe i am. 

then i think its the guys looking for a quick dollar or quick fame or notoriety. as soon as they finish they car its on a few blogs and for sale much sooner than later. 

the guys that have originally built this scene to what it is are rarely here or left a long time ago.[/QUOTE]
ngas in it for the internet famez :smiley-rofl:

i'm in it for the beeches  ;)

no not really, i just have an addiction to modding cars and find the vip style to be my personal favorite.  plus i like injecting my opinions whenever possible and hopefully interacting with others in a meaningful and insightful sort of way in the process.

good analysis though, i've definitely noticed these 3 poster personalities for a long time on car blogs and well pretty much every other type of blog too honestly...  i'm an IT guy and on some IT blogs there are such asshole know it all folks that it pisses me off to the point that i have stopped reading most other than questions and answers.  but car folks tend to be a lot better about this to me.

[QUOTE=OG;487382]so either you don't take it seriously or you're butt hurt?

d) none of the above[/QUOTE]
like i said maybe i wasnt explaining myself in enough detail. dont feel like typing out a long ass response. and btw those are my opinions which may or may not have any fact but nevertheless your d. option is not included in my assessment lol.

lol timmy you know who fits this bill.

well i don't come and go, and i got no e-fame, so y'all owe me i guess. pm for paypal info.

owe you for what? which one of your cars is ground breaking?

[QUOTE=OG;487397]well i don't come and go, and i got no e-fame, so y'all owe me i guess. pm for paypal info.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=airmax;487407]owe you for what? which one of your cars is ground breaking?[/QUOTE]

these ngas. :ohnoes-2:

:inouteek:

been awhile since we've had this kind of conversation here on the boards....LOVE it.

[QUOTE=airmax;487380]

then i think its the guys looking for a quick dollar or quick fame or notoriety. as soon as they finish they car its on a few blogs and for sale much sooner than later. 
[/QUOTE]

:giggity: calling me out.... :smiley-rofl:

so who has a true vip car???

[QUOTE=REV-01;487452]so who has a true vip car???[/QUOTE]

John. Vipstylecars and you Samson :D

[QUOTE=airmax;487407]owe you for what? which one of your cars is ground breaking?[/QUOTE]

you made the calssification system homie.

You didnt fit the description you were asking for lol. 

As far as true vip cars, theres a few here. not gonna give my opinion on who is who and who isnt because i dont want to hurt anyones feelings. dont want to scare away anymore members lolol.

i don't fit any of them, which was my point.

this thread went downhill fast. was good to have some old school style convo though like thomas said. i still have a statement to make on the subject, but it will be long and hopefully well thought out.

[QUOTE=airmax;487458]You didnt fit the description you were asking for lol. 

As far as true vip cars, theres a few here. not gonna give my opinion on who is who and who isnt because i dont want to hurt anyones feelings. dont want to scare away anymore members lolol.[/QUOTE]

F this bitchassness - man up with all due respect. Lol I don't think the convo went down hill. Still very informative. Everyone has been in observation mode. Good to hear people people lash out on points that they are passionate about.

^^lol. i think we'll have some good builds / rebuilds this year. i always look fwd to the red y33 and a few other rebuilds.

I've let go of the y33 build - unforeseen circumstance may prevent this thing from ever hitting the streets again. Not lack of money. Not lack of parts passion or enthusiasm. From a mental standpoint its just best for me to detach from it or the wait is going to drive me insane.

[IMG]http://ezrahub.com/board/img/1356922838875.jpg[/IMG]

sometimes its just easier to not care anymore lol.

[QUOTE=33flavors;487474]Lol I don't think the convo went down hill. Still very informative. Everyone has been in observation mode. Good to hear people people lash out on points that they are passionate about.[/QUOTE]

shits lame. cats take offense and go offensive. ruins every discussion, every time, regardless of topic.

thems fighting words Mike....I'm upset now

[QUOTE=mrbrian8;487319]An epic thread started by just asking about rims, good job Brandon!!!![/QUOTE]

Haha I know right! XD I'm just glad to see a regularly updated thread! lol

[QUOTE=OG;487500]shits lame. cats take offense and go offensive. ruins every discussion, every time, regardless of topic.[/QUOTE]

you would think it would just make them build better cars with some of the better parts. :shrug:

so i got a question now...?  do you guys have a concept or direction for your build before you start it, or do you just mod as you go?

do you think this can have a better outcome of having a 'true vip car' if a plan is already envisioned?  or would the % of creating a 'true vip car' be the same as if someone just modded as they went?

for me the car i have right now is the only one thus far that i pretty much had a plan for since the before even purchasing it.  well the wheels changed colors but other than that i did what i set out to do.

[QUOTE=sojah;487586]so i got a question now...?  do you guys have a concept or direction for your build before you start it, or do you just mod as you go?

do you think this can have a better outcome of having a 'true vip car' if a plan is already envisioned?  or would the % of creating a 'true vip car' be the same as if someone just modded as they went?

for me the car i have right now is the only one thus far that i pretty much had a plan for since the before even purchasing it.  well the wheels changed colors but other than that i did what i set out to do.[/QUOTE]

For me I like to plan things out but I think it takes a little of both to make a true VIP car bc with just a VIP plan it becomes a cookie cutter scene so if you add that personal touch as your plan unfolds I think that makes for the perfect build!

[QUOTE=sojah;487586]so i got a question now...?  do you guys have a concept or direction for your build before you start it, or do you just mod as you go?

do you think this can have a better outcome of having a 'true vip car' if a plan is already envisioned?  or would the % of creating a 'true vip car' be the same as if someone just modded as they went?

for me the car i have right now is the only one thus far that i pretty much had a plan for since the before even purchasing it.  well the wheels changed colors but other than that i did what i set out to do.[/QUOTE]

Yea, I had a very detailed plan when I started my last G50 build. It has been derailed a few times mostly from this stupid engine swap, but planned 
Nome the less. I have changed a few details like the rear bumper and I've changed the fenders about 10 times but I have the fenders finalized and all the pieces to the puzzle are now here, just need final execution. The most important part of any type of build, imo.

I often have parts for my car before I even have the car haha

[QUOTE=sojah;487586]so i got a question now...?  do you guys have a concept or direction for your build before you start it, or do you just mod as you go?

do you think this can have a better outcome of having a 'true vip car' if a plan is already envisioned?  or would the % of creating a 'true vip car' be the same as if someone just modded as they went?

for me the car i have right now is the only one thus far that i pretty much had a plan for since the before even purchasing it.  well the wheels changed colors but other than that i did what i set out to do.[/QUOTE]

now i always have a plan and goal with each build. this way there is no stupid costly mistake. take it apart once and be done with it. it can be done in steps but the plan is usually not change. also i will not let "deals" change path of the build. because it will not come out exactly as plan and it will just water it down.

i am not a fan of just slap it on now and fix it later or make it prettier later. do it once and do it right.

Well I think it depends on how many and what kind of builds one has done earlier, with experience comes wisdom.
With my build I started basic planning when I got the car(-08), before I really got into this VIP thing, and when I slowly started to acquire parts(-09) the plan just kept on evolving the more I submerged myself into this world. And since -10/-11 I've had a pretty detailed image in my mind, but I've just mainly been learning/figuring out how to achieve it in diy fashion... so kinda building/fine tuning the idea as I kept on going forward and learning new things and having fun doing so. So yeah 5 years in, still unfinished, I'm a mo'fucking procrastinator with a capital P haha =) 


@sojah: And I always thought that most of the young cats in Japan built their car mostly with the help of the cheap/easy to get loans/credit that were common there at least a few years back...?:shrug:

[QUOTE=Juzzo;487627]
@sojah: And I always thought that most of the young cats in Japan built their car mostly with the help of the cheap/easy to get loans/credit that were common there at least a few years back...?:shrug:[/QUOTE]

I assumed this too, I know interest rates there were under 1% for quite sometime...

when i first bought my gs i had a plan to have JP everything, very soon after i decided i didnt want to build a catalog. so the plan was just clean daily, stock body, low, aggressive wheels and all of the usual upgrades (no fusa or tsuna though lol), neckpads, audio and a pinstripe lol. recently someone backed into my car and i decided that if i repainted it black again i would just leave the car stock, if i color changed it i would be going close to all out. im waiting on word about a kit i am trying to get made for me, then i'll move on to new wheels and then redoing the audio and hopefully a 2j. i dont expect this to be done anytime soon, and i hate build threads that last forever so i wont be making one.  if everything goes according to plan i expect this to be finished up by next year around this time. if i deviate from my plan chances are this will never get finished and i'll be driving an escalade or a tahoe. 

so to answer your question, i think most of us build with a goal in mind and slightly change certain things about our build adapting to how the scene evolves.

cheap loans definitely still exist here...  even D.A.D Garson and a lot of other big names will offer you super low interest rates on loans to buy their stuff here.  i'm sure some peoples go this route (or this service wouldn't exist) but i've never heard anyone admit to it  ;)

i can't help but plan for more and more vip with each car i get (every 2-3 years).  each and every time i tell my wife that i'm not going as much in with this car, and then i end up planning even more and going even more in on it.  my wife was telling me that there had been some research in japan a couple years back linking the modding thing to like a disease of sorts, but at the end of the day a man's gotta have a hobby, so as long as it doesn't hurt anyone or take food out of your children's mouths,,, "then shut up and go make me a sammich'"...

[QUOTE=sojah;487661]cheap loans definitely still exist here...  even D.A.D Garson and a lot of other big names will offer you super low interest rates on loans to buy their stuff here.  i'm sure some peoples go this route (or this service wouldn't exist) but i've never heard anyone admit to it  ;)

i can't help but plan for more and more vip with each car i get (every 2-3 years).  each and every time i tell my wife that i'm not going as much in with this car, and then i end up planning even more and going even more in on it.  my wife was telling me that there had been some research in japan a couple years back linking the modding thing to like a disease of sorts, but at the end of the day a man's gotta have a hobby, so as long as it doesn't hurt anyone or take food out of your children's mouths,,, [B]"then shut up and go make me a sammich'"...[/B][/QUOTE]

+10000!! Hahhaa

So instead of calling the ride SICK, we should be calling the owners/builders sick :smiley-rofl:

obviously you ^ ^ ^ haven't gotten past the 1st step yet  ;)

1.  admitting you have a disease...  or wait, i'm really not sure if this is step one or not, oh well...

I'm so insane in the membrane I can't anymore distinguish all the diff problems I got :smiley-rofl:

[IMG]http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb314/blainangus/36371701_zpsa1ed460c.jpg[/IMG]

Buahahaa :smiley-rofl:

LOL!

hahahaha   :smiley-rofl:

[QUOTE=sojah;487586]so i got a question now...?  do you guys have a concept or direction for your build before you start it, or do you just mod as you go?

do you think this can have a better outcome of having a 'true vip car' if a plan is already envisioned?  or would the % of creating a 'true vip car' be the same as if someone just modded as they went?

for me the car i have right now is the only one thus far that i pretty much had a plan for since the before even purchasing it.  well the wheels changed colors but other than that i did what i set out to do.[/QUOTE]

depends on experience and abilities.

i see a lot of new cats that haven't had enough exposure, but have a build plan. it's usually pretty weak and the weakest aspects are usually what they run to first. that's why i always tell new cats to take their time. there's plenty of stuff you have to do, leave the icing alone until the cake is baked. knock out the basics and give yourself time to get familiar with the style and develope your own twist.

if you're already in, you already know what you're lookin for, and, if your pockets can handle it, you can move fast and stick to a plan.

if you're in it but your situation doesn't allow you to move at a quick pace it's tough to stick to a plan. things change so quickly.

i prefer an abstract vision. a general style, but no detail is for sure.

Shit. I change as I go.  The longer I'm in it. The harder it is to justify the spending but I do it anyway.  It just takes a little more time.

yeah i feel you.  normally i just mod as i go but this was the first time i specifically had a plan of sorts and completed it.  now i will just wait a little while and do small stuff before making any more big moves.  i just bought a weekend fun car (bmw z4) so for the first time ever i will actually have two cars of my own to do whatever to, but i promised the misses i wouldn't be modding the z4, cept for the aux in port & changing all the lights out, and tires.  however what she doesn't see she won't know about; strut bar, lowered suspension (have to slowly lower it over many many months so she doesn't notice), anti sway bars.  but the rims is something i'm gonna have to figure out since she was pretty strict about this particular mod....   hmmm....

I do respect the route of getting genuine name brands items for your ride. Say you have a older platform, like a UCF10/11 or a early Q45, and name brand parts like body kits are hard to come by. Would it be aceptable then to go the alternative route?

True VIP - going the whole hog, aero, wheels, fitment, lowness, interior, luxury car brands.

Not true VIP- wheels, lowered, curtains, a fusa and tuna. Knock offs.

(I didn't read the whole thread btw lol)

VIP = Lams diamond center caps =)

[QUOTE=kingtoy10;490075]I do respect the route of getting genuine name brands items for your ride. Say you have a older platform, like a UCF10/11 or a early Q45, and name brand parts like body kits are hard to come by. Would it be aceptable then to go the alternative route?[/QUOTE]

It depends what you mean by alternative. There are plenty of Brands that still support older chassis' you just have to pay more than you did for the car to buy them. ;-)

true vip car: nissan or toyota eg celisor, aristo, cima, president etc only a selected few of these two car makes
suspesion: coilovers only if you want 90s styling and as low as possible touching the ground and running stupid camber
body: kitted and not factory kit
windows: should be blue or aqua tint
interior: leather seats and a trend has come on installing bucket seats eg recaros brides sparcos etc
wheels: ssr, works are the flavour of the month
zaust: should be as loud as humanly possible 
lights: aftermarket headlights are common and this should be done
and accessories such as fusa, dash tables and weathershields/strips are incouraged :)

How'd I miss all of this? I must have been sleeping! Seems to me that I'm out of the running... Wait did someone say diamond center caps? I thought I had the best shit; Swarovski.. Nope, I'm out of the running.. I give up.. guess I was never in...

Diamond centre caps prototype failed, but a new one is being cast up and redone this week :)