What ever happened to buying wheels then worrying about making them fit?

When I first got into this styling, people would tell me get the wheels first them worry about making them fit.  Now it seems like people don't want to push the limits and it is getting more and more conservative.  I want to hear your thoughts on this.  Lets keep this civil.

*shrug*

I think there's still people trying aggressive wheels...Pagong, Rich, Mike...

As the amount of experienced people grow, there can be more discussion about what will fit how though, so for sure there's less "pay & pray" when it comes to buying and fitting wheels.

Unwillingness to spend money is the biggest factor. Flaring guards = money, Running with camber = money... 
Or perhaps it is the fact that with the exception of you & VIP-UCF, nobody has successfully modified fenders to accommodate very large wheels. 
 
Most people think the only way to get more room in your fenders is to pull like a 13yr old who just discovered porn. But this can look very ghetto if not done right
 
Compare that to buying wheels which you know will fit, based on other's experiences...</p>

[QUOTE]Unwillingness to spend money is the biggest factor. Flaring guards = money, Running with camber = money... [/QUOTE]
 
If I thought that was the case, I wouldnt have made this thread.  People are spending lots of money on kits, new rims, interiors and systems.  They are clearly not afraid to spend.

its because people cant do it themselves normally
i did it, they arent hella extreme but it took quite a while of pulling and fitting ot get them perfect
but alot of people just dont have the knowhow
its not like installing a stereo where you just put some wires together and put it in a box

The reason is due to the pioneers whom had aggressive fitments spread their abundance of knowledge. Hence, the threshold for fitment on certain vehicles are exposed already and plateau for regular fenders of a vehicle. I think that is a testament to some of the OG's here which makes it easier for the newbies in terms of wheel fitment selection.

They saw my car and said "ah F**K that!" :smiley-rofl: and bought what can fit under the fenders...lol just playing.
 
Not sure what is stopping some of the "money able" members to do aggresive fitments. 
 
If I had the extra cash flow, a support role in the family and time I would finish my car up. But thanks firelizard for mentioning my name.:smiley: But , im one of the unsuccesfull ones to try it.. :sad: 
 
WidebodyQ, VIPUCF, zion, elpresidente., BigSteve ..unfortunately we can only name a handfull of members that want to do the "buy the wheels and make the car fit" 
idea.
 
Or maybe it's just not thier style.  <----- Im leaning towards this one though.

sorry to say this but the whole "make the car fit the wheel" is way over-rated and ridiculous. 


My wheels were custom ordered brand new, and if I were to do it again, I'd go more conservative and keep my camber at a reasonable setting.

you can achieve the same look with the same jaw dropping effect without the camber.

the camber is not gonna make or break the car, but rather the car as a whole.

[quote=QoozyFoozy;90081]

the camber is not gonna make or break the car, but rather the car as a whole.[/quote]
incorrect
and ill stick to it

so the car as a "whole" does not make the car ? 

it's the camber that will make the car ?

are u sure u want to "stick to it"  ?

[quote=Yokotas13;90083]incorrect
and ill stick to it[/quote]

I think for some people it would be a money issue. For example, my vehicle is my daily driver and gets me to my job where I make my monies. I can't have my car down for a bit to do fender/body work. I also have a shit job that does not pay. Now we certainly should not go into the reason or "It pays to play". I like the style so I choose to drive this car and so do many others, but just because it costs money to do alot of these things, should'nt be a deciding factor if you can drive and modify one.

When I get to the point that I can purchase wheels, I will get some high quality ones, that to me, will be expensive and a large purchase in my life. So doing much else after that will not be an option.

That would be one of the reasons I think most people are not doing crazy fitment.

[QUOTE=QoozyFoozy;90087]so the car as a "whole" does not make the car ? 

it's the camber that will make the car ?

are u sure u want to "stick to it"  ?[/QUOTE]
I think he thought you meant to actually "break" something..haha.  I think he read it the wrong way.

I'm all for measuring it appropriately and then adding a few mm for good measure.  That way I get the look I want with a slight aggressive margin for error and an ease to make it work if it's slightly off.  Rolling and pulling is no big deal...

[quote=QoozyFoozy;90087]so the car as a "whole" does not make the car ? 

it's the camber that will make the car ?

are u sure u want to "stick to it"  ?[/quote]

yep
a car without aggressive camber wont tuck correctly, it will be sunken in
or wont look correct, to achieve the VIP appearance

so yes, ill stick to it that incorrect camber can break a car
and incorrect wheel fitment, IMO such as yours
the rears arent agressive enough IMO

and im glad i gor kranzes instead of the varianzas...id hate to cop someones wheel choice

[QUOTE]They saw my car and said "ah F**K that!" :smiley-rofl: and bought what can fit under the fenders...lol just playing.

[/QUOTE]
 
LOL.  I had the same feeling and thats even after body work.
 
Im not knocking anyone or trying to start a fight because there are lots of well executed cars out there.  Im just bringing this up because the attitude changed over the years and id like to see more cars on here going aggressive.

IMO, it's because pushing the envelope just for pushing it's sake doesn't appeal to some people. Hell, when I bought 19x9.5 +45 wheels for my Altima, everybody on altimas.net said it would never fit. I fit them with relative ease (roll/no pull, 235/35 -2 camber), and everybody said "wow, I guess they can fit" and moved on. To some *cough*my wife*cough*, going the extra mile on a car is only worth it if you're getting some sort of publicity for it. And to a certain extent I agree with her. What's the use in buying wheels that you know would take just short of a miracle to fit when you can be just as aggressive with more conservative wheels and stock fenders? Is it to be the hero of VSC? For example, I saw widebody_Q's car the other day, and was amazed by the quality of work put into that car. My wife, who saw the same car at the same time, turned to me and said "What makes it any different from John's (my neighbor) Q45?" Mind you, his wheels are mildly aggressive (if such a term exists), something similar to  Pancakes' fitment. Some people just don't understand the work it takes to achieve the look, so in their eyes it looks the same. People mod their cars for, among other reasons, to be noticed. What's the point of going the extra mile if nobody else notices?

I, for one, will continue to push the fitment envelope on both my Altima and my Y33, even if nobody else gives a damn about the work that has to be put into making said wheels work.

This announcement has been paid for by the kind folk at Push The Envelope, and CamberMan.

yeppers
im with this guy

IM trying to fit the widest lowest offset possible on a stock fender y33

only becuase i don tlike hte look of radiused and flared fenders
but im game for a roll and pull!

[QUOTE]My wife, who saw the same car at the same time, turned to me and said "What makes it any different from John's (my neighbor) Q45?" [/QUOTE]
 
I know this.  To one who doesn't know much about cars. it doesnt matter but I mod for myself, not for others.  It's rare to see me at a meet or in a parking lot chillen by the car seeking approval from others. 
 
[QUOTE]What's the point of going the extra mile if nobody else notices?[/QUOTE]
 
Knowing that you did something that everyone can't do and succeded at it

the rears aren't aggressive enough ? why? because it's not sticking out  looking all retarded ? Camber is at -4 and lines up right to the fender. 

what u think is hardly the last word here on VSC. 

There are easier ways to achieve the look and everyone should be able to  decide on their own, not just follow what everyone else says. 

if the trend was to drive on flat tires, you'd probably be doin it.





[quote=Yokotas13;90093]yep
a car without aggressive camber wont tuck correctly, it will be sunken in
or wont look correct, to achieve the VIP appearance

so yes, ill stick to it that incorrect camber can break a car
and incorrect wheel fitment, IMO such as yours
the rears arent agressive enough IMO

and im glad i gor kranzes instead of the varianzas...id hate to cop someones wheel choice[/quote]

hardly
ive done almost everything to ALL of my cars, against what everyone else said was "cool"
how about you?

[quote=Dominik;90041]Or perhaps it is the fact that with the exception of you & VIP-UCF, nobody has successfully modified fenders to accommodate very large wheels.[/quote]
 
haha, you can take me off the "successfully modified fenders" list...it's not done and won't be for a while...but it is coming along...
 
it's more about the individual...for me, i like to try new things once i see a trend...i look at it as anyone can throw on some low offsets and clear your fenders by 5mm etc.  But pulling off a 12.5" wheels with -24 offset is a trip...i like to 'out do' the next person and go more extreme...that is of course if i think it looks good cuz i won't do something to my car if i think it's ugly, no matter what...it's kind of a friendly competition...that is how new trends or new ideas happen...i like the vision i have of my car and now my experience is starting to catch up with that image...just gotta let my hands pull it off...
 
and it's not about the money...i have a shit paying job and 2 daugters...AND i live in hawaii...trust me, it's not about who has more money...

Dan, it looked like you were basically finished!
 
Anyway, it might also have alot to do with the fact that big fenders arent as popular in Japan as they once were. The look is more subtle now (widebody and fender modding is still popular - but not like before).
 
As for me, i have done the big fender look (albeit by buying a car with premodded fenders), now i want the big camber look.

QoozyFoozy...Yokotas13,  guys play nice or you won't be playing on this thread at all.  Both of you have your opinions and both of you should learn to respect the other's.  Qoozy, I do have to tell you your view of Yokota is pretty far off.  He's always gone against the grain and I for one respect him for that.

[quote=Dominik;90173]Anyway, it might also have alot to do with the fact that big fenders arent as popular in Japan as they once were. The look is more subtle now (widebody and fender modding is still popular - but not like before).[/quote]
 
 
i'm with this.haven't been around too long, but a pictures worth 1000 words. i notice that newer cars/pics have a simple cleaner look. then there seems to be the old school wild style, thats very extreme. seems to me its just evolution.

[quote=Yokotas13;90100]yeppers
im with this guy
 
IM trying to fit the widest lowest offset possible on a stock fender y33
 
only becuase i don tlike the look of radiused and flared fenders
but im game for a roll and pull![/quote]Same here. I'd rather go this route than any other. Though, I'm still looking for a wider set of wheels.
 
[quote=widebody_Q;90102]Knowing that you did something that everyone can't do and succeded at it[/quote]Exactly, even when some people think its just ridiculous to have my car's camber look they way it does and I drive on it. I know its not that serious to others to run such camber, but it feels nice to know from experience that I can say "it can be done".
 
 
 
So overall, I think there might be people not trying to make wheels fit because they aren't doing enough research. I think I've made a decent amount of posts about my current setup to give Y33 Q45 owners an idea of what can work with stock fenders. They just need to do the offset/width calculations to compare them to my wheels. After having faith and patience, they'll achieve what they are really desiring, which would be great fitting wheels.

hello benji,

yeah but the thing is, when it's too much camber, it starts to look "broken".

air suspension is different because drive height and park height are totally different. Form and function are crucial when your drive height and park height are the same. 

stuffing and cambering maybe cool to some,  but finding that right balance between aggressiveness, form and function is just as cool.

you can only "pull" a fender so much before it starts to look funny. You can only camber a wheel in so much before it starts to look funny. You can only go so wide before widebody-bodywork is required.

super aggressive wheels are totally fine when u go widebody-bodywork, but stuffing wheels that require bodywork is not gonna look right.

















[quote=Benji;90257]Same here. I'd rather go this route than any other. Though, I'm still looking for a wider set of wheels.
 
Exactly, even when some people think its just ridiculous to have my car's camber look they way it does and I drive on it. I know its not that serious to others to run such camber, but it feels nice to know from experience that I can say "it can be done".
 
 
 
So overall, I think there might be people not trying to make wheels fit because they aren't doing enough research. I think I've made a decent amount of posts about my current setup to give Y33 Q45 owners an idea of what can work with stock fenders. They just need to do the offset/width calculations to compare them to my wheels. After having faith and patience, they'll achieve what they are really desiring, which would be great fitting wheels.[/quote]

i actually love the concept of making a car fit the wheels instead of vice versa, I was on that road when my car got hit. I'm also not at all above the use of fender flares to acheive it even though some would say that it is VIP or that it's cheating. To that I say look at your mags like VIPcar and VIPstyle and you'll see lots of fender flares even if they are the minority in there, as long as you mold them in and they don't look like ass then you should be fine.

Solo's flares weren't moulded or painted and still looked great on the car.
 
I'm not a fan of mega-camber, personally, I would go widebody before I do that. But to do a widebody (not just flares) is a huge project, so if someone (like myself) is not into either of those choices, then you have to choose wheels that fit into your plan.
 
Besides, choosing the right specifications to fit exactly how you want it in stock fenders is by no means an easy or unimpressive task.

what happened to measure it yourself and figure out what u wanna run..
instead.. its.. "hey i have a 99 GS, will this fit"
lol.. i think measuring it and making it work and what not makes fixing a car
up fun.

[quote=QoozyFoozy;90265]hello benji,
 
yeah but the thing is, when it's too much camber, it starts to look "broken".
 
air suspension is different because drive height and park height are totally different. Form and function are crucial when your drive height and park height are the same. 
 
stuffing and cambering maybe cool to some, but finding that right balance between aggressiveness, form and function is just as cool.
 
you can only "pull" a fender so much before it starts to look funny. You can only camber a wheel in so much before it starts to look funny. You can only go so wide before widebody-bodywork is required.
 
super aggressive wheels are totally fine when u go widebody-bodywork, but stuffing wheels that require bodywork is not gonna look right.[/quote]Very true. I can agree, I look at my camber in the rear and I do think it looks "broken", I'm sure others feel the same, at least the people in my town tell me all the time.

It pretty much boils down to PERSONAL preference.  
 
I can't speak for everybody else, but I fell inlove with the "wild" VIP cars of the past and that was my inspiration as to why I bought the aggresive wheels. Little did I know bodywork and preparation is the biggest factor on such a project.
 
But we build our cars first and foremost for ourselves, and its just an added bonus if you can pull off [B]YOUR[/B] style and get the aprroval of most people.

[quote=QoozyFoozy;90265]hello benji,

yeah but the thing is, when it's too much camber, it starts to look "broken".

air suspension is different because drive height and park height are totally different. Form and function are crucial when your drive height and park height are the same. 

[/quote]
honestly, maybe for you it is (not a smartass comment in this reply)

for me, id ride lower than i am now with air

and the only reason id raise it is to get over stuff i couldnt at that height
just becuase you have air, doesnt mean you ride higher, it just means you have the capability of riding lower without tearing off skirts and bumpers.
plus you gotta realize, my drive height is with the lip of hte rear fender, about a half an inch off the rear lip of the wheels, so im pretty low already

[quote=firelizard;90274]Solo's flares weren't moulded or painted and still looked great on the car.
 
I'm not a fan of mega-camber, personally, I would go widebody before I do that. But to do a widebody (not just flares) is a huge project, so if someone (like myself) is not into either of those choices, then you have to choose wheels that fit into your plan.
 
Besides, choosing the right specifications to fit exactly how you want it in stock fenders is by no means an easy or unimpressive task.[/quote]
its really not hard honestly.
just takes about 30 minutes for front adn the same for rear worth of measuring and stuff.

Regarding the stock fender look you see in the mags these days. Would you believe that most of them have had fender work done? Alot of them run with raised fender arches without flares. Looks completely stock, but its the reason they can run 20s and still sit low.

[QUOTE=Dominik;90417]Regarding the stock fender look you see in the mags these days. Would you believe that most of them have had fender work done? Alot of them run with raised fender arches without flares. Looks completely stock, but its the reason they can run 20s and still sit low.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://studentservices.odu.edu/smokeout/truth.gif[/IMG]

I can see both sides of teh argument really, and personally I think that Pagong, Yokotas13, elpresidente, and firelizard have pretty much summed it up for me.... [QUOTE]"I fell inlove with the "wild" VIP cars of the past"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]"just becuase you have air, doesnt mean you ride higher, it just means you have the capability of riding lower without tearing off skirts and bumpers"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]"I'm all for measuring it appropriately and then adding a few mm for good measure. That way I get the look I want with a slight aggressive margin for error and an ease to make it work if it's slightly off."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]"you have to choose wheels that fit into your plan."[/QUOTE]
 
tell me that isn't well rounded hahahahahahaha

wow you included everyone but me. I thought we were cool.    :smiley:   jk

[quote=SikNLow;90661]I can see both sides of teh argument really, and personally I think that Pagong, Yokotas13, elpresidente, and firelizard have pretty much summed it up for me.... 



 
tell me that isn't well rounded hahahahahahaha[/quote]

I think most people 'daily drive' their rides....tends to make one conservative.

ok ok qoozy here you go and i actually agree with this:
[QUOTE] 
"you can only "pull" a fender so much before it starts to look funny. You can only camber a wheel in so much before it starts to look funny. You can only go so wide before widebody-bodywork is required."
[/QUOTE]

I can't tell you how many times I have heard this throughout the years...

"I want my car to look like (insert so-and-so's car, such-and-such show car, some car I saw at SEMA or a magazine), with an aggressive fit with NO fender modifications..."

Normal consumers can never see what an oxymoron these statements are.

The guys/gals that put these super-bitchin cars together... the reason they look so cool
is that they went the extra mile to push the envelope with stance, fitment, etc.,
yet people seem to think they can buy a bolt-on replication of this look and be 
done with it in an afternoon of installing Eibachs and wheels.

I can't remember the last time I installed a set of wheels without spending at least
half a day tweaking and "fixing the rubbing." Even when you forewarn customers
about a certain fitment and tell them EXACTLY what they need to do to make a 
particular fitment work, they STILL bitch about the actual "making it fit" part.

"Waaa, the rears rub the fender, and the fronts rub the plastic when I turn..."
No shit, Sherlock. Was I talking to myself? My GOD!

And then they say "my so-and-so wheels are rubbing..." typically, it's
the TIRES that rub, douchebag! Unbelievable.

I just tell 'em "rubbing is racing."

Sorry for the rant.

[QUOTE=Dominik;90417]Regarding the stock fender look you see in the mags these days. Would you believe that most of them have had fender work done? Alot of them run with raised fender arches without flares. Looks completely stock, but its the reason they can run 20s and still sit low.[/QUOTE]

That's so true... they even cut their chassis so that they can sit as low as 18s on 20s.

i dont post alot but i usually read everything thats said.spend most of my time in the drifting world.but i am working on my daily driver(96 c230)fitment was an issue with me because i do drive it daily.wanted an agressive look. went with 18x10 rear 18x8.5 frnt both +35 with .25in spacers. dropped it 3.5 in.had bout 4 deg camber in front. had a real hard time finding an alighnment shop that would take on the task @ here.i almost wore out  the inner two tread rows.toe was off to ofcourse.now if i lived in a place where this was more mainstream i would have gone widder.everyone @ thinks its crazy.but i love the lifstyle.

i think people are scared at first at not knowing what to expect. They know they will have to roll shave pull but dont know what its all about so they get lesser offsets. Then they eventually graduate from that and go more aggressive